Achievement Servers On TF2

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Heading, skip if you just want to read my question.

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Upon the release of the Pyro patch and the craze following it, there came to be a slew of servers designed for Pyro players to join, cooperate, and farm for the various new Pyro-specific achievements in order to unlock the three new weapons.

I got the luxury of playing TF2 again last night and I was tempted to go into those servers. I spent a total of around thirty minutes there, unlocking 3 (OMGWTFBBQ, Dance Dance Immolation, and Camp Fire) achievements and then leaving. I played around for two hours on the Team Roomba server and had lots and lots of fun, unlocking seven more achievements and reaching Milestone 1. Since this has been my first outing on TF2 for some time, I was proud and happy.

Then I remembered how I actually farmed (cheated, really) to get the other three and a feeling of regret swept over me, as it does now. I wish I hadn't gotten those achievements by farming for them. I wish I had gotten the rush of actually pulling off a taunt kill on a scoped sniper, or kicking ass in an ambush and killing 3 people really quickly. Why not? Who doesn't love the realization that they just unlocked an achievement and are one step closer to more game content? It's a lot like the 'ding' that a player gets when their RPG character levels up. Looking back at what I did and the manner in which I got those achievements (and in which many people right now are working on getting) is pathetic. You're putting off having fun for the sake of getting ahead.

I am ashamed and have vowed to execute those 3 achievements in game to redeem myself.

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What do you all think of achievement farming in TF2 and in general? Do you find it to be shameful or time-saving?

You've got a good concept here, whats the point of putting challenges in games if they're not challenging.

Its like playing any other game and putting in a cheat code that skips you to the "game over, you won" screen. The truth is the fun is in the journey, the same thing with books, movies, life, etc. you enjoy it more during those activities than afterwards. Plus you get a feeling of accomplishment, knowing that you worked hard and did something.

That was one of the things I enjoyed about COD4, the challenges. I liked doing them, but now that I have most of them done, I am tempted to go and make a new soldier to do it over again for fun.

I think it should always be an option. If you're an instant gratification sort of person, you might want to unlock the best guns right away. If you're like TheIceface, then you might not. It's about personal preference, so don't be ashamed if you "farm" or not.

I never use achievementfarm servers as having achievements to unlock is what keeps me wanting to play the game. Though I have noticed that some of the valve Pyro achievements are surprisingly impossible to do the "fair" way during a normal game, without any friends on the other team to help you out.(Most notably "Dance, Dance Immolation" and the cigarette flicking spy ignition) I hope valve will avoid making more of the kind in the next class updates.

You know whats dumb? Achievements unlocking content. Seriously. It's stupid.

Look at every server this week, both sides 50% to 75% pyro. Yeah great awesome. Everyone trying to unlock there new guns. Sorry but I rather Achievements be just that Achievements not a required part of the game. Some Achievements you simply cannot get without cheating unless you are simply that lucky.

Yeah, I logged on an Achievement server, played for an hour and got my three unlocks because I have to to stay competitive to have fun. I don't want to play the Pyro for 6 months doing them naturally. It's a bad concept for any game. TF2 is not an MMO and I don't want to have to level up all my guys to be on the same even ground as everyone else.

The new weapons should either just be given to you or tempoary weapons. Like perhaps you unlock them during a single match and can use it for the rest of the round. Jesus anything but leveling up and unlocking achievements.

Whatever asshole at steam who thinks that is fun really needs to be kicked in the face.

I used both for Medic and Pyro. The weapons I found don't change the way the game plays in any really significant way imo, they don't make it easier, the challenge comes from the people you play against, so, I don't really feel so bad about getting them as quickly as possible.

As a medic I'll almost always stick with the regular medigun over the Kritzkrieg.
Actually the Blutsauger is the only one of the new medic weapons I make regular use of heh.
And as for the Ubersaw...well, you're better off staying in the back getting a charge up slowly and safely than looking for people to slice and risk getting gibbed.

As for the Pyro, the Backburner is only really usuful from behind, and that is..rarely for me, so I stick with the Flamethrower. The Flare gun is nice against snipers, but other than that is weak as nothing. As for the Axstinguisher, well, you either stand around with it out and follow another Pyro around, or try and switch when you've just flamed someone, which I've found is highly impractical in massed combat.

Either way you look it, there's a reason why achievement farming exists.

People that have the unlocked guns have an advantage over the ones that do not have them, and while I think that gaming competative is extremely stupid there's lots of people who do play TF2 for competative reasons in Clan servers and Clan competition and such and which ever way you put it, these people "need" the updated weapons as soon as freckin' possible in order to be on the same level as everyone else that has the unlocked weapons.

I personally couldn't give a rats ass about the Pyros Flare gun or the Back burner because I concider the Pyro to be a complete wuss against my 1-2 rockets in its face.
My only grattitude to the Flare gun is; and by that the ONLY reason - is that he flare gun originates from the old Team Fortress: Classic-era/Quake-era WHICH I LOVED when Pyros had a Napalm-bazooka which was removed in TF2, but now added again with the Pyro update.
Difference being that it has less splash damage and that its not rocket-propelled and thus shorter range.

To sum things up.
When playing TF2 there's a significant advantage to those who already have the stuff unlocked. I can see a reason why people feel like getting those updates as soon as possible.

Now if they could only add the Medic-Virus update... *evil grin*

my thoughts on the tf2 achievements are simple: I like em.

The weapons you unlock though are not better and nor are they worse than the weapons you start with. they just give alternative ways of using that class.

Example: The Back burner you unlock doesn't do as much damage head to an enemy like the original, nor does it have the ability to reflect projectiles. So you need to be able to ambush the opponent. and because the back burner essentially makes the pyro vulnerable they get a minor health boost.

Simple as that. its just alternative way of playing... and it works.

I like them, if you want the achievements, go play on an achievement server.

Otherwise, stay off my competitive one. I came to this server to play a game of Team Fortress 2, not spot the soldier in the group of 8 pyros.

Wofiel:
I like them, if you want the achievements, go play on an achievement server.

Otherwise, stay off my competitive one. I came to this server to play a game of Team Fortress 2, not spot the soldier in the group of 8 pyros.

Hehe, we're limited to 5 of any class at any one time on ours. Works okay.

As I may have said before, I enjoy a good challenge, especially one that requires me to be at a disadvantage and still win. I usually fulfill this urge in games by making my own challenges, like in CSS, I never use autoshotty/Awp/autosniper. I'll even go beyond that to using the most unused class, the most unused guns, whatever, and coming out on top to shove my superiority in everyones face.

I enjoyed doing the achievements so far in TF2, but I've been away from my computer recently, so I haven't been able to even try get the new guns. I can't form an opinion on whether or not the guns should be unlockable, since I haven't even used them yet, but I remain resolute that the point in achievements and challenges is to do something difficult. If that means I won't have whatever competitive edge the unlockables warrant, than that means I should just try a bit harder to get them, not take a shortcut.

Yeah, i honestly hate people to "farm" for acheivments or rewards. My friend did that in CoD4, he met up with someone in Cage Match and he agreed to help him get all the camoflauge for his weapons and other seemingly imposible feats.

I resented him for that and he's the guy that says 10 Prestige level 55 people are unbeatable even though they just play the agme too long or do exactly what he did.

I don't like Achievements when they unlock content that gives the player an advantage over others. That unbalances the game, and increases the temptation to set up achievement servers. I don't approve of achievement servers, but I definitely understand why some do in this case.

What boggles me is the achievement servers/lists set up for folks to grind for Achievements that don't have any in-game advantage... servers/lists set up solely to give players a hollow and meaningless victory. Those folks I view with actual disdain.

-- Steve

I don't disagree with the unlockable weapons, since as gibboss said, they're not so much -better- weapons as they are alternative weapons. Each has it's own pros and cons.

Since the Medic and Pyro achievements both only require 20 achievements to unlock the weapons now, it's not a problem. You can get 20 achievements playing legitimately. The concern was, back when you needed -all- achievements, that the bad ones like killing a taunter (nobody taunts lol) would be really difficult, if not impossible to achieve the proper way.

Now that you don't need to get all those silly ones, it's quite possible to play the game without achievement servers. Have I used 'em? Yes, somewhat ironically to grind the more difficult Medic achievements the day before they changed the unlock levels. But now that I don't need to get the ridiculous ones, I probably won't go back.

It only looks bad on those who -need- to unlock these weapons like some kind of status symbol. Worse still to those who think that getting the new weapons will make them better than others, which is obviously not true.

But the morons who join achievement servers just to randomly kill and not actually help others? Twats.

Remnant:

But the morons who join achievement servers just to randomly kill and not actually help others? Twats.

Dude, that is totally me right there. I enjoy throwing monkey wrenches in the gears of any of that monkey business. Monkeys.

I don't speak British, I speak American, so I don't know what a "twats" is. Good thing too; I might have been offended.

I agree with Anton, he makes a legitimate point: create the demand for achievement servers, create the supply.

"Twats" is simply the plural of "twat". One twat, many twats.

I farmed my Achievements, but I didn't do it for unlocks (Although my Medic and Pyro loadouts now each contain two out of their three alternate weapons). I did it to finish every last Achievement. Why? Because I wanted to.

A lot of the Achievements (Medic ones, especially) were retarded and completely illogical and counter-productive in "normal play", as well. By staying out of those servers and using a mixture of Achievement servers and bots of my own spawning, I was able to acquire almost every last one that didn't rely on having people in my Friends list.

TheIceface:

I don't speak British, I speak American, so I don't know what a "twats" is. Good thing too; I might have been offended.

Its not British. Its English! :p

I bought TF2 on tuesday and I love that game, I don't even bother looking for achievement servers, I found a 24/7 2fort server and another rotation CP server and I switch between the two. I have 1 kill as a pyro, and it'll probably remain that way a long time.

My favorite class has got to be the scout. When they open achievement weapons for the scout, however, I won't play achievement servers, I'll simply run around and pwn like I do right now. All these people that are playing the pyro for the achievements and unlocking them on those servers which make it easier for them are going to be getting owned in the face the second they log back on to real servers. They all come back with their brand new pyros and here I am with my scout darting into their base and getting the intel back to our base before they know what hit 'em. With the over abundancy of pyros that makes my job just that much easier.

I also found someone farming the achievements the legitimate way. You know how I could tell? He was playing a pyro, and he had the best score on the server, yet he still hadn't gotten the final unlock. So I got on a medic for the first time, built up an uber charge and helped him farm the "kill 3 people at once" thing. Believe me, 2 engineers, 2 pyros and a heavy cant stand up to a good pyro and a good medic that are uber charged, even if the pyro doesn't have all of his achievements.

Long story short... skill will always prevail over achievements. Always.

For the record, my medic now has the most points out of any of my classes. ;)

Farm servers a retarded, if you're going to cheat to get the achievement you might as well just use the crack that gives you all achievements.

SirSchmoopy:

Look at every server this week, both sides 50% to 75% pyro. Yeah great awesome. Everyone trying to unlock there new guns.

It wouldn't be quite so bad if they released everything at once. Particularly in the day of the update and the day following it, the game's just not much fun. The free weekends don't help either, as it drags in some of the scum from the generally rather horrible CS Source community.

Oh yeah, achievement servers, and such. Well at least people are working together in the spirit of mutual cooperation. I mean, if you want to farm your achievements, do it. I just don't think it's any fun, that whole cooperation bit. But it is better than coming to a competitive server just to achieve achievements. A few achievish people can ruin an entire game.

Hehe, epic lumberjack. Awesome.

chuiu:
Farm servers a retarded, if you're going to cheat to get the achievement you might as well just use the crack that gives you all achievements.

Curious though. I'm of agreement to those that think these new weapons shouldn't even be unlockable in the first place, i.e. all new content you shall get as soon as it's ready for release. So, therefore, considering this, am I still cheating when I access the farm boxes to get the weapons? And, I'll have to check, but, what is Valve's stance on this, or those who run the servers? Do they consider this to be cheating? Or, just that, 'Hey, y'know, it'd be fun if you took the time to do these achievements we put in for you, but, we're not gonna force you'
And on the achievements themselves. Yes, some are challenging and even fun. But a lot of them are utterly pointless grinds (Medic was especially), luckily, they've seen this, and adjusted them accordingly. And no doubt change them slightly again when the next pack comes out (hopefully).

I read here a complaint akin to one I had, that every server, now, is loaded with a given 5 Pyros on a team of twelve. Might as well temporarily rename the game 'meet the Pyro.'

Valve should hold on to the rest of the class updates and release them all simultaneously. I think it'd ease the competitiveness a bit and get rid of the class-stacking phenomenon that occurs every time they release one of those patches.

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I do not believe the unlockable weapons give a player an advantage over others. It's all about style, and the default equipment each class gets regularly can always compete with the new stuff. For example, take the Backburner. It's geared toward ambushing with its 100% crit-rate from behind, and provides a nice health bonus. However, there's no airblast, which is one of the most exciting additions to the Pyro, in my opinion. Soldiers are no longer my bane; Demomen are my bitches, and I can fling ubered characters away sufficiently to ruin their runs. I think even after enabling it, I'll still prefer not to use the Backburner, as I'm more or less a frontal-approach type of player.

The Pyro now is exactly right for me. I just want that damn flare gun :P

gibboss28:

TheIceface:

I don't speak British, I speak American, so I don't know what a "twats" is. Good thing too; I might have been offended.

Its not British. Its English! :p

Englandish... whatever! I don't speak it, I'm American, I speak American, I eat meat, I piss standing up , I have a doctorate in badass, and I inject heroin directly into my cornea!
Now if you'll excuse me I have to go not drink some tea.

I don't specifically go for achievements. I haven't gone to an achievement server. If I happen to get one during gameplay, fine. Granted, I do sometimes taylor my actions with an eye towards earning an achievement but for the most part I earn them, essentially, by accident. The recent pyro inundation isn't annoying me as much as the medic one did. My biggest complaint was that the name of the game is TEAM flipping Fortress, not EVERYONE-FOR-HIS-DAMNED-SELF Fortress. When the medic pack came out all I saw were a bunch of morons ignoring their teammates just to get the achievements. The medics were completely useless for that first week. There are ways to earn the achievements and still play a team game but it seemed like nobody was interested in doing that. It made it really hard to enjoy the game for a while.

Well my stance on the subject is:

Anything which requires you to do a certain thing to a certain condition to unlock a certain something is farming however you do it. It just depends on how quickly you want it and what you are prepared to do to get it.

In City of Heroes we have badging; some of them are notoriously difficult to get but all they do is unlock a badge only a few which do anything (special powers that have limited duration and fixed recharge times of around half an hour). There was originally a badge which needed 10,000 specific enemy defeats (Rikti Monkeys, underlings of an enemy group) which was reduced to 1000 but there's another against a very mez heavy group which requires 500 illusionist decoys from a Master Illusionist (anyone who's played knows that Carnies are the most annoying group you will ever face in the entire game). I've got both from farming, one by tearing lower level opponents so they die in just a few hits and cannot defeat me and the other was mainly by being helped by a higher level to smite most of them with me (the sidekick system in City of Heroes means they could bring me up one level below them). I don't feel bad about it and I do help anyone else who needs them because I know how awkward it is to get them.

I blame the developers who feel that to extend their content (Smash Brothers for a prime example, the entire Xbox 360 achievement system for another) they have to seal away all their 'good' stuff by forcing you to play for a certain amount of time or to do a certain amount of things before you get to use them.

Bringing things back to TF2; I have the 360 version and have been told by other players that we won't be getting any of these extra packs (no great loss, it'll probably get lumped with the 360 version of Portal 2). I have farmed several of the offense/defense badges by... playing solo. Yes because the 360 allows me to host a system link match and the credit still counts. I did get one by accident but only because I happen to be on a team that was really good at ... which makes me seem like a leech but there are so few matches on the 360 version (that I don't get red ping on anyway).

Bleh. I do them because I'm a lazy-ass bastard. However, I do it with friends, so it's fun.

I farmed the medic achievements because no heavy will fist fight 2 enemies to death.

Anyway. Goo, you feel like doing them and redeeming yourself. Nice.

Anything which requires you to do a certain thing to a certain condition to unlock a certain something is farming however you do it. It just depends on how quickly you want it and what you are prepared to do to get it.

Yes, that.

x434343:
Bleh. I do them because I'm a lazy-ass bastard. However, I do it with friends, so it's fun.

I farmed the medic achievements because no heavy will fist fight 2 enemies to death.

Anyway. Goo, you feel like doing them and redeeming yourself. Nice.

Well, actually, as I was playing one day as a medic, I used an uber on a heavie, not realizing he was running out of shells. When that happened he switched to fisticuffs and proceeded to bludgeon 3 guys to a pulp. I ended up with a brand new achievement which I didn't know existed. So, you never know, I guess. ;D

teh_gunslinger:

x434343:
Bleh. I do them because I'm a lazy-ass bastard. However, I do it with friends, so it's fun.

I farmed the medic achievements because no heavy will fist fight 2 enemies to death.

Anyway. Goo, you feel like doing them and redeeming yourself. Nice.

Well, actually, as I was playing one day as a medic, I used an uber on a heavie, not realizing he was running out of shells. When that happened he switched to fisticuffs and proceeded to bludgeon 3 guys to a pulp. I ended up with a brand new achievement which I didn't know existed. So, you never know, I guess. ;D

You're the first guy i ever heard that got that achievement "honestly". Usually everyone just runs the fuck away from ubered heavies, and heavies are kinda slow. I also see heavies switching to the shotgun when they run out of ammo, so i really don't know how yours had the clairvoyance to put'em up.
Overall, some of the achievements are fun to get, but some are outright retarded. If you feel bad about joining an achievement server so you could get your unlocks, then don't. The OMGWTFBBQ achievement is almost impossible to get, as long as your opponent has two functional legs and your character does the whole kamehame sequence and sound.

The entire thing is, indeed, stupid.

The game wasn't broke. Don't fix it.
10$ says this entire thing is for, at the end, steam will put up a thing "Hey everyone! if you want all the cool things, pay us more money and we'll give you something we pulled out of our asses!"

So yeah, I want to stay on the same ground as everyone else, so why not? I got 22 achievements, even though the only 'useful' thing was the flare gun. Air compression is a lot of fun, too :)

But... EVERYONE IS A FREAKING PYRO.
If you're going to do it, release them all at once. seriously.

They do this on Xbox as well. Set up matches just for achievments. My opinion on it is bleak at best, they are there to give you something to aim for. If it is for unlockable content i understand but the people on xbox have no excuse.

Achievement serves just for the sake of having said achievements is rather pointless. However, farming them for unlockable content is only fair because while some weapons are rather useless(kritzkrieg...) things like the blutsauger and the backburner are pretty much a must in competetive play and denying people those simply because they don't have the time to set up some of the more tedious ones(5 kills with uber ready in a single life comes to mind) is stupid.

Achievement servers exist because you're at a disadvantage if you don't have all the unlocked weapons. It's a terrible system. The medic blutsauger and ubersaw are superior in every way to their normal counterparts. They did better with the pyro, but the backburner is still vastly superior to the normal flamer.

Also, some of the achievements are just incredibly stupid and you would never get them in a normal game. Have an ubered heavy punch two people? Uber a scout and have them kill 3 people? Blow up 5 buildings in an uber? I don't really remember the pyro achievements offhand but I assume there's a few that are equally ridiculous. I guess if you played a game against a bunch of retarded monkeys you might get some of these things legitimately, but realistically the only way you'd get them is through cooperation with the other team.

Go in console and type Achievement_reset or something like that...

I like several of the Achievements, because they are things that can realistically be gotten through common play. Other Achievements, I don't care for, because as it has been mentioned, they are next to impossible unless you get cooperation from your opponents. Requiring that you get the new weapons via the Achievements is just begging for people to skip the 'middle man' of finding the rare situations to unlock the Achievement.

If the Achievements unlocked nothing, then I would feel that the Achievement Farm Servers would be a waste of time. If the Achievements unlocked weapons, but were realistic to obtain through casual play, I would again feel the Servers would be a waste of time.

But the fact is that the Achievements unlock weapons (and thus variety and potential fun) and are unrealistic to obtain through casual play. There for I feel that the Achievement Farm Servers serve a purpose. I personally don't recall seeing the Servers pop up for the original Achievements, but then again, those neither Unlocked items or were unreasonable to gain.

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