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Gone Gonzo  Posts: 1180 Joined: 25 Jan 2008     | |
Paperboy  Posts: 46 Joined: 14 Jul 2008     |
QFT. |
Paperboy  Posts: 21 Joined: 14 Jul 2008  |
Change the rating. |
Copy Clerk  Posts: 53 Joined: 15 Jul 2008     | A 10/10 score should be impossible but then has anyone ever seen it handed out on a whim? There have been maybe 5 absolute 10/10 games ever made and IMO one of those should not be in this list. Besides some games are just so good, so exemplary in so many areas the nit-picks can be ignored. Super Mario 64 - Hands down the most influential game since someone started messing around with an oscilloscope. The 3D landscapes and the freedom experienced simply moving from one chamber in the castle to another was exhilarating the first time around, and it still is today. I defy anybody to think of a game with a bigger impact than this game in the past 15 years. Legend of Zelda: The Ocarina of Time - The discussion on immersion reminded me of this game and the maddening effect it had on me and all of my game-playing friends. Almost everyone I knew disappeared for however long it took them to complete the game. The Orange Box - (Portal + Half-Life 2 + Half-Life 2: Episode 1 + Half-Life 2: Episode 2 + Team Fortress 2)*All in one box=perfection. Something for everyone and then more besides, even people I know who dislike games with a passion have had a go at Portal and enjoyed it and the same for Team Fortresss. Halo 3 - In many ways I think the perfect scores this game recieved reflect the series as a whole, I will admit it underwhelmed me but none-the-less I understand why the score was given. GTA IV - far from perfect and yet it is an immersive game with a fantastic story. I didn't personally think it deserved a perfect score but it serves as a fine example of game design. |
Gone Gonzo  Posts: 1503 Joined: 15 Jul 2008  |
I completely agree. another possible honorable mentions may be ff7 and resident evil 3 but totally, mario 64 and Oc of time imo are true tens of their day. As good as gta and mgs4 are their scores would only be near perfect without the hype and fanbase. |
Muckraker  Posts: 346 Joined: 21 Nov 2007     | Honestly, I don't really see too much trouble with giving a game a "perfect" score if the reviewer considers the game to be among the pinnacles of the genre (to date, anyway). A "10 out of 10" may seem superfluous, but it is just a reflection of the reviewers opinion on the game, obviously meaning they hold it in very, very high regard. However, to actively point out a slew of faults, grievances, and design flaws within the review and then seemingly ignore all of them to give the game a perfect score is just ludicrous and, frankly, idiotic. (as was much the case with nearly all reviews I've read of games like GTA4 and MGS4) Sure, give a game 10/10, 100%, or whatever numerical ranking you use, but for God's sake don't do so after listing the games faults. The reviewers that do so are just making asses of themselves. |
Pulitzer Laureate  Posts: 863 Joined: 22 Jun 2008  |
See, I just don't get how you think that. The scoring system in question is 10 out of 10. You can't give an 11 when there is only 10 choices. That's just dumb when reviewers do that - it's like they are too scared to give an actual score so they give an 11. Personally, I'd stop reading their reviews, because obviously they can't take their own reviews seriously. |
Gone Gonzo  Posts: 3086 Joined: 13 Jul 2008   | this matter, just like the score in a game review, can never really be concluded or properly justified as it's completely down to opinion |
Beat Writer  Posts: 182 Joined: 10 Oct 2007 | A 10/10 or "100%" (which is the same if they add decimal numbers e.g. 9.4 is nothing else than 94% should NEVER be given to ANYTHING. |
Paperboy Posts: 16 Joined: 14 Jul 2008   | I'm tired of having everyone whine on and on about how a 10/10 should be the "perfect game with absolutely no flaws that makes me wet my pants and orgasm at the same time". Can anyone tell me what the "perfect game" is exactly? Besides it has no flaws? Every game is perfect in it's own way as in that at least one person who has played it has thought so, while others believe it is trash. When you say the "perfect game", I'm assuming that in your own minds you have some general assumption of what that game would be. But you know what? That game is only perfect in your mind's eye. Not everyone would find that game perfect. The "perfect game" would have to have every game play mechanic possible stuffed inside it, so that it could appeal to every single person who would play, so they would all enjoy it and deem it perfect. However, if a game tried to accomplish everything all it would do is burst at the seams and little pieces of itself would fly everywhere. It's somewhat like Yahtzee's analogy to the man spinning plates, who tries to spin too many and only ends up with glass shards in his face. So stop whining about the perfect game because there is none, and will never be one. Stop pointing out all the little flaws in games and crying about them and the score they should get, and play the game and have FUN instead. The only "perfect game" is life. It is completely non-linear, very immersive, with deep player interaction, a sophisticated control scheme, in a wide open "world" where "players" can roam freely with their choices affecting the outcome of the "game". Also, there's absolutely NO LAG! The only bad thing is no respawns, unless you're Buddhist I guess. Sorry for getting a little off-topic there, and for the lack of proper paragraphs. |
Beat Writer  Posts: 169 Joined: 15 Jul 2008  | ya your right, their is always something thats wrong with a game. I'm sure when a game gets a ten and lives up to it, the world will explode |
Gone Gonzo  Posts: 1128 Joined: 12 Apr 2008    | Meh I dont have an issue with it. A review really doesnt make a difference. there is no perfect mathimatical scoring system, now if you give things a setain amout of "points" (stars, crosses, dildods or what have you) for meeting X critieria then its fine. Because to be a 10/10 doesnt mean that its perfect it simply means that its better than a 9/10, studies have showen that thing will sell better if the numbers are whole istead of being mixed like 9.6. And Lastly review are all opinions, if you idsagree then jsut read the discribtion on that back of the box and wonder if you should buy (or rent) it. |
Copy Clerk Posts: 53 Joined: 15 Jul 2008 |
I am not sure if the reference to spinal tap was deliberate but if so well-played, mjhhiv, if you haven't seen spinal tap I suggest you watch it and then if nothing else the suggestion of 11/10 will make you laugh.... |
Gone Gonzo  Posts: 3252 Joined: 8 May 2008   | No game is perfect, so no game deserves a perfect score. some games are great, but when compared to other great games they just can't hold their own. Gears of War is a prime example; it's a great game, fun to play, but compared to Half life 2 or MGS4 and so on it just doesn't seem that good. I myself prefer a /5 rating system, it's simple to interperet However, this system has it's flaws. No game should be given a perfect score but if a game is great what else are you going to give it? |
Gone Gonzo  Posts: 3236 Joined: 10 Nov 2007   |
A percentage score may initially look "more precise", but they're really meaningless. It's stupid to think that you can express the quality of a product with something as precise as a hundred point scale. Really, can you explain, in non-referential terms, the difference between 94% and 95%? No, no you can't. (It's worth noting that pretty much no other media uses more than a ten point scale.) |
Gone Gonzo Posts: 1180 Joined: 25 Jan 2008 |
Yes, I agree, but I just enjoy comparing games based on percentage gained. I don't tend to think in these ridiculous terms of 10/10 being a perfect game, or there being much difference between 95% or 96%. The point is that games which get these marks are stunningly excellent. That's all you need to know. I DID say that actually reading the review and basing your opinion on that is more important than arbitrary scores. |
Infamous Scribbler Posts: 687 Joined: 3 Jul 2008  | Fair enough reviewers might be thanked for being a little more precious about lashing out that BJ+Pudding top mark. |
Gone Gonzo  Posts: 1422 Joined: 7 Jun 2008  | For a 10 point scale, their is no game worthy of a 10. I prefer 5 point scales because they are more general and more linear, but in a good way. It is never hard t classify something on a 5 point scale. Now in a 10 point scale, you need to be very detailed in how you judge. That detail is its major flaw for me. 10/10 means perfect. Everytime I see someone give a 10 to a game, I just shrug it off knowing it is being overly praised. A 9 I can accept, but nothing is flawless.
True. Average is suppost to be the middle, so 5/10 should be adverage. Instead, I see most games reviewed in magazines and such getting between 6-8. I rarely see anything 5 or lower. It is like the authors want to make the game or themselves sound better by raising the adverage score. Reviews do not work like school grades. A 50% is an F because you cant be intellegent if your success ratio is 50/50. For quality standards, 50% is adverage. |
Copy Clerk Posts: 51 Joined: 8 Mar 2007 | I give this thread a 4. Out of something. - Alan |
Muckraker  Posts: 255 Joined: 24 Apr 2008 |
Hate to break it to you, but 5/5 = 10/10. This discussion is kind of ridiculous. 1. It's a score, not a symbol of perfection. |
On the Record  Posts: 6480 Joined: 24 Apr 2008    |
seconded, thread over, no more discussion, no more disagreement its clear is final thats the answer. |
Copy Clerk Posts: 53 Joined: 15 Jul 2008 |
I believe this belongs to you. |
Paperboy  Posts: 14 Joined: 13 Sep 2007    | I don't know about this. We have to keep in mind that no matter how hard a reviewer tries; game ratings are still hugely subjective. It's the reason why book reviews don't really use numerical rating systems (except on Amazon, but we're going to ignore that for now). The reason is because the reviewer's personal preference fits into it so much. However, the industry has really gone in the direction of numerical reviews. The reason is because game review readers are more like newspaper readers then book review readers are. That is--they don't read. The game review number functions much in the same way as a lede does for a news article, it gives the reader a way to see the general gist of the article while being too lazy to read it. That's why it is often posted at the top of the article. If you want this to stop happening, stop being a lazy ass and read through entire reviews. (Now that's being alone in the dark... :P ) However, ever if we dismiss the number as a basic marketing gimmick, it should still be held up to some standards. Yes, the majority of a reviewer's experience will be subjective, but there are some objective portions as well. I know people are going to want to kill me for using this, but Halo 3 is a great example of this. Yes, it was a good game, but were all those 10/10s really appropriate? It's ok, if you've been sucked into the world and the marketing and really like the game, that's cool. But some things in that game were objectively BAD. I went through the last level and then sat down with my game design textbook and looked at everything the game had done absolutely wrong just in that level. Removing player agency. Undifferentiated level areas. Difficult navigation. Area repetition. A few other things as well. By any objective review, these things run counter to the basic principles of game design. This has happened in other games as well. Now should love of a game counteract mechanical failure? (Which is the underlying question of this entire argument.) Plainly: No. Halo 3 may have been the love of many reviewer's lives, but elements that severely impact the quality of game play should have forced lower ratings. I love Mass Effect (it is the reason I got a 360), but the inventory system alone should knock off a point. Psychonauts may be one of the cleverest games of the last gen, but camera problems and irritating jumping issues knock it down at least a point. What would (in my ever so humble opinion) get a 10/10? Games that make us love them and function really well (within the constraints of their generation and genre) or at least games that are so fun that we don't notice the flaws. Deus Ex is the first one that comes to mind. Starcraft, the original Diablo, maybe Grim Fandango. It's a ridiculous discussion to begin with, really. The real reason there are game ratings and many of them can get away with being flawed is because you'd all rather watch ZP (no offence to Yahtzee, I love ZP) than read through an entire article. |
Pulitzer Laureate  Posts: 861 Joined: 2 Apr 2008   | There are few games I can think of that deserve 10/10. Any game made by RockStar is at the bottom of the list. GTA games are not actually very good. Likewise, Halo games are nowhere near 10/10. I'd struggle to rate them as anything but "slightly above average." The Halo games, along with virtually all the other First Person Shooters, have worse multiplayer than Perfect Dark, a game that is now archaic by most standards. But is Perfect Dark worthy? I think that's one of the closest you'll find. If any game should be 10/10, it is Perfect Dark. The game DOES have flaws, I'm not pretending otherwise, but most of these are more about the limits of the N64 than the game; it lags to buggery and back when a lot of bombs go off all at once, and the fact you respawn "stunned" if killed while stunned is stupid... but I just cannot allow myself to let these spoil the game. The rest of it is just too good. It can be as easy or as hard as you like. There's a load of extras and hidden features, and the multiplayer is Perfect; how many other games allow you to field up to 8 bots (in addition to 1-4 human players), with 6 levels of difficulty (Meat, Easy, Normal, Hard, Perfect and Dark), and IN ADDITION to this alternative personalities, such as Kaze (fights in hand to hand only), Venge (hunts down the last player / Sim who killed them), Prey (attacks the weakest player), Judge (attacks the strongest player) and Turtle (very slow, but gets extra shield to increase their lifespan). On top of this, you can alter the appearance of the Sims all you want, just as you can alter your own character's outfit. Couple on to this about a dozen maps (including three classic maps from Goldeneye - Temple, Complex and Facility), and multiple modes of play, Perfect Dark is unequaled in modern gaming. No FPS out today deserves higher marks than Perfect Dark. Unlike bullshit like Halo, where the justification is always "yeah, the solo play is dull... but OMFG multiplaya rox lol!", Perfect Dark has not skimped on any of its modes. It is beautiful. Anyway, if you want to know why so many shitty games are given 10/10, let me explain: You work for a magazine that reviews X-Box games. Someone just took a shit on your desk and called it Halo 4... but if you tell everyone it's shit you get fired as Microsoft are pushing this as the Must Buy Game of Forever. So you give it 10/10, and go spend your wages. |
Pulitzer Laureate Posts: 863 Joined: 22 Jun 2008 |
I haven't seen it, and now I'm quite confused... In response to Wargammer - Try to tame your inner fanboy before posting. It's pretty apparent that all GTA games do NOT suck, and while I wouldn't have given a 10/10 rating to GTA 4, it ceartinly isn't bad. Anyway, I've been thinking, and there are only 5 games that I'd bestow a 10/10 rating on. Half-Life 2 Those are my top 5 3-D games, anyway. It's way to hard to count games like Tetris and Pac-Man into this scale, compared to these games. |
Beat Writer  Posts: 174 Joined: 9 Jul 2008   | No i don't think a game should get a 10 out of 10. Becuase that would mean the game was perfect. Valve knows this and respects it. Just look how the game that is probably the best game they've ever released i.e Half-Life 2. They gave it a 96 out of 100. when i think it deserves a 98 out of 100 |
Anonymous Source  Posts: 2 Joined: 13 Jul 2008 | Yes I agree,nothing is perfect or 100%. That law does not exclude video games. -cmdr31 |
Beat Writer  Posts: 161 Joined: 29 Aug 2007    | This is why the /5 rating system is superior to the /10. 1 = utter worthlessness |
Pulitzer Laureate  Posts: 871 Joined: 20 Dec 2007  |
thats what i'm tryin to say, there will be no such thing as a perfect game so, no such thing as an 11/10 |
Anonymous Source Posts: 4 Joined: 23 Jul 2008 | i agree 10/10 is supposed to be a perfect game i don't think any game deserves that score i and i don't think any game ever will don't get i am a hardcore gamer i play games a lot and their my favorite form of entertainment but it i have yet to find "THE" perfect game |
Press Junketeer  Posts: 395 Joined: 21 May 2008   | What about the Resident Evil 5 and Far cry 2 which are set to come out. So far these games look great, but i hope they don't receive a 10/10. Otherwise what else will they have to work on...? |
Press Junketeer Posts: 395 Joined: 21 May 2008 |
Thats actually quite good. |
Gone Gonzo  Posts: 2663 Joined: 20 Jul 2008     | The only games that ever deserved 10/10 were the games on the Nintendo 64. The console of ultimate gaming. |
Gone Gonzo  Posts: 3447 Joined: 8 May 2008  |
So this should get a 10/10? http://www.metacritic.com/games/platforms/n64/batmanbeyondreturnofjoker The only games that deserve perfect scores are Halo games/joking None are perfect. |
Paperboy Posts: 45 Joined: 9 Jul 2008 | 10 should not mean perfect, if not all scores are used, there is no point in a 1-10 scale, it would be a 1-9 scale. As said, it's not perfect, it's just the top score. Now, are scoes useless? I hear people complain about how a game that has gotten high scores is not fun to them, but why not actually read the review? Don't listen to the reviewer saying it's good, listen to him telling WHY it's good, and then form your own oppinion! Scores are a good to quickly tell aproximatley how the reviewer feels, but shouldn't be taken too heavy.
How would that be different from a 1-10 scale other than being less specific? 1 = utter worthlessness |
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This is my opinion. The /10 system is a general indication whilst a percentage score is much more precise. Overall though, you should really just read the review and base your opinions on that.
Just not IGN's reviews...