I like turn-based gaming because it means I have a few moments to decide on a strategy in the middle of gameplay. Yeah, it's a lot less skill-required than other games, but I still love that kind of gameplay to an extent.

Saevus:

gamshobny:
I've been playing Jagged Alliance 2 for waaaay to long now (about 5 years), and still loving it, after all the extra stuff 1.13 adds to it.

I love turn based because you can just think things over, wich means that you can defeat a force much larger then yours quite easily, since you can focus on one point at a time.

Thank God someone mentioned that game.

90% of what I see here is people talking about 'OH THOSE TURN-BASED JRPGS' - and completely ignoring all other turn-based stuff. Turn-based war games, especially tactical ones, practically demand turn-based combat. Why? Because there is so much shit going on that if the game was in real-time, it'd fall apart. You can pull off some styles with real-time, a la Total War franchise, but once you get into WWII era and on, where combat is far less regimented, set it in real-time and any hope of an intense, deep experience goes out the window. You simply can't control all the details in real-time. Same with many turn-based RPGs or squad sims. Jagged Alliance 2 is absolutely fantastic - it allows you to control nearly everything, and forces you to bend every aspect of the situation in your favour if you hope to succeed. Compare Temple of Elemental Evil to Icewind Dale and you have a prime example of how turn-based combat changes a game from real-time.

tl;dr if you think turn-based is 'too slow' or 'lacks strategy', go play chess in real-time and enjoy the fail.

Funny thing is in games like Supcom and Total War, I'm ALWAYS pausing and planning my next move, there is no way I can control the madness in real time.

I quote thee for truth!

I have played real time chess it was kind of fun. It is possible to have strategy in real time and control it (Korean Starcraft players)

Perfect general is turn based strategy perfected. It will forever hold a place in my heart in my top ten favorite games ever. Oh and yes it was made in 1990.

So yea I love turn based games, that's cause there is much more emphasis on thinking instead of reacting. I'm good at thinking and bad at reacting. I love turn based rpg's more then action anything. Simply because turn based usually means the difference between skillfully using all the tools you have and mashing X until everything is dead.

If you hate them then don't play them, that's why we have multiple genres. Different people like different stuff. I hate halo but I try not to troll it. I just happily ignore it when possible.

And as far as ff goes, my personal opinion is that if you ever have a situation where you need to ask yourself "how can I change this franchise to make it new and exciting" then it's time to let the franchise die. Please square let my childhood memories rest in piece and stop butchering with games that no longer resemble final fantasy.

gamshobny:
I've been playing Jagged Alliance 2 for waaaay to long now (about 5 years), and still loving it, after all the extra stuff 1.13 adds to it.

Oooh Jagged Alliance 2 rocks my goddam socks. Especially Fox. :)

If a game lacks so much interactivity that I can download porn, prepare a decent chili dog meal for friends and finish up my character sheet for D&D, ALL WHILE completing the final battle, then it's nolonger a game.

It's hardly your place to say such a thing, is it? Several people have commented that they like the fact that it doesn't force you to drop everything else in order to play. In any case, you can go make a sandwich in the middle of the boss fight in every game ever made. You just press the "pause" button, and go do whatever. If a game can't hold your attention in the middle of the final battle, then it's the fault of the game, not the format. You may as well say that "this house is badly built, and will probably fall down if you breathe at it too hard. Therefore, bricks are a poor and inefficient building material."

Wait, there's strategy to turn based games? Holy crap, when did this happen?

You play a few games with a turn-based battle system, don't like them, and assume that there's nothing more to the format? The hell? How did it ever cross your mind that such a thing would be at all sensible? If you'd slimmed down your criteria, then you'd have a better chance at not sounding silly. "Turn based games have no strategy" is negated quickly and easily by the mere existence of Golden Sun.

Anyway, I get what you meant, however badly phrased it was. Basic enemies can be dispatched quickly and easily by using your simple attacks, and occasionally healing. Guess what? Basic troops in COD4 can be killed by shooting them in the chest a couple times, and using cover! Oh my lord! COD4 must be crap! Of course not. There's a hell of a lot more to turn-based RPGs than "tapping A", and you know it. When you get past the point where basic attacks are all you have, and your characters start learning new abilities - as well as facing stronger foes - that's when it starts getting interesting. You have to take into account the attack speeds of different characters, figure out when and how often you can heal, decide whether to use this mid-power attack now, or that high power attack later...

Look, not liking something is fine. I don't care what you want to play. Just don't try to make it look like it's anything more than opinion.

It's nice to see somebody throw a little love in the general direction of the FF series. I like them and they just get abused on these forums way too much. Its nice to know there are a few people left that will defend the old girl in here.

....Fallout? Anyone? >_<

Mr.Pandah:
....Fallout? Anyone? >_<

Goes without saying. Likewise with its sweet, sweet sequel. However, it's frustrating at times - specifically when you make two, three moves and then wait for half a dozen enemies with slow animations.

Turn based anything is good. I'm not a big strategy gamer, but there are places where its necessary. I dont think affects a games pacing it just lets you make a more informed decision.

shatnershaman:
I have played real time chess it was kind of fun.

How does that work?

I like turn-based systems but I don't prefer it. It's good that few games are turn-based because that means that the more deliberate and thought-heavy style remains fresh. But I've found that most good turn-based games have some sort of "twist" on the formula.

Two of my most favorite games, Age of Wonders and Galactic Civilizations II are turn-based strategies. They can also be called "4X" games (eXplore, eXpand, eXploit, eXterminate) which I consider a twist. Age of Wonders also has an "it's everyone's turn" system that works very well and gives the choice to auto-resolve combat or tactically control it.

Two other TBS's, Advance Wars (or Nintendo Wars) and Fire Emblem, they allow your units to retaliate when attacked. Believe it or not most games like them don't (think of Shining Force, great back in the day when they didn't need a twist).

Some great RPG's, KotOR and Paper Mario, also have turn-based combat. In KotOR the twist is "turn-based in real time" and I've long been of the opinion that this is the best turn based system there is. Paper Mario allows you to block enemy attacks and increase the power of your attacks with precise timing.

So yeah, turn-based games can be great. In fact I believe a good 4X offers the best "bang for your buck" of any genre.

I love to play turn based games. Like everyone says it lets you think and even lets you do stuff between each turn which I love. I hate it though during RL games where I have to shoot someone only to pause it...come back unpause and then get shot because the reaction time I kept before I paused was gone when I came back. Though there are some games where Turn based is a bad idea and some where it's heaven in a can but I have to say. If you like it...good if you don't like it...your choice.

Go Kotor

TheNecroswanson:

ElArabDeMagnifico:

TheNecroswanson:
I unfortunately crusade against turn based. If a game lacks so much interactivity that I can download porn, prepare a decent chili dog meal for friends and finish up my character sheet for D&D, ALL WHILE completing the final battle, then it's nolonger a game. It has become a simple chore. A mindless task that nolonger entraps me, has failed to keep me entertained, and has ruined my gaming experience.

I assume you've never used the "pause" button or "save" feature in a game, correct? I don't see how planning out your strategy and then clicking "go" can be a lack of interactivity. Unless it's multiplayer or something - where not even the pause button can save you.

Wait, there's strategy to turn based games? Holy crap, when did this happen? Let's see, here's the rundown of the combat for Chrono Trigger, Final Fantasy 8, Final Fantasy 7, and Dragon Warrior, IE: JRPGS I have played: Press A/X. Press A/X again. Adversely, before that second pressing of A/X, I sometimes will press up or down once or twice. There is never a need for me to press any other button. EVER.
Not sure what pausing or saving has to do with combat. And as for turn based strategy games, can't stand them. At all.

The problem here is you played a few of the bad combat systems and then labeled them ALL bad. There are quite a few turn based games (yes, even JRPGs) that take quite a lot of strategy, button usage, and speed. It's not really the genre's fault that you haven't played them.

Mr.Pandah:
....Fallout? Anyone? >_<

Um... clearly you never played The Blades Showdown in The Boneyard in Fallout 1, a good example of what was wrong with Fallouts Turn Based Battles.

Here's my thoughts on the "Psuedo Realtime Battles" from FFXII, from my in-depth review of hte game...

PedroSteckecilo:
I will start with what I see to be the bad points of the game the first and most prominent being the new battle and ability system. The new battle system discards the clever and interesting Continual Turn Based Battle (CTB) seen in Final Fantasy X with a new system known as Active Dimension Battle (ADB). I see this as a negative as the CTB system was so well received that almost EVERY turn based RPG system since Final Fantasy X has ripped it off, Xenosaga's 1 and 3 use it ( I never played 2), Shadow Hearts 2 and 3 use it, hell, even Lost Odyssey maintains the idea of different actions advancing your place in the turn order. This is made more apparent by the fact that the much lauded ADB system is pretty much exactly the same as the Active Time Battle system seen in Final Fantasies IV through IX. Don't believe me? Pay close attention to the ADB system, it has time bars for every action, only they activate after you choose the action, that's the only difference, hell it even has a goddamn WAIT mode. The only real difference is the fact that the ADB system is faster with the implimentation of the Gambit System, a cool take on programable party AI that I actually really enjoyed. The fact that the ADB system is actually a throwback isn't a game breaker though, what does REALLY hurt the battle system for me are the following points. 1: It is hard to determine the weaknesses of bosses, making spell choice during boss battles difficult and almost pointless when simple attacks and Mist Knacks work better. 2: Technics are nearly useless, I cannot recall any of the interesting Technics ever working for me.3: Boss Battles descend into Mist Knack blitzes, using as many of these as possible and hoping to chain them together well. Now I'm not such a wanker that I demand everything be turn based, I like the fact that random encounters are gone, I don't mind the shift to psuedo realtime, but this all has been implimented better (re: Bioware Titles and their Obsidian sequels) and clearly the FFXII battle system designers didn't do their homework.

Personally I like Turn Based Combat better than Real Time, but I like it to be engaging, IMO the BEST turn based battles come from the following games...

1) The "Press Turn" System or the "One More" System from the PS2 Generation Shin Megami Tensei Games. One of the best examples of how to make use of Turn Based Combat.
2) Final Fantasy X's Conditional Turn Based System, where WHAT you did determined when your next turn came up, much more tactical.
3) Shadow Hearts: From The New World, a mix of Timed Hits and FFX's CTB system, both active, turn based and tactical. Very Fun.
4) Dragon Quest Series, best application of simplistic and otherwise boring Turn Based Combat EVER!
5) Grandia 3, a primer on how to have exciting, action packed Turn Based Combat... too bad the story was shite.

And Lastly...

6) Paper Mario: The Thousand Year Door, the PERFECT turn based system. Mini-Game attacks, tons of abilities, plenty of options, very tactical.

First off, I'm really surprised how civil the tone has been, I figured it'd degenerate into a flame war long before this. I'd also like to say that turn based games do not have a monopoly on strategy. They simply present a different kind of strategy. When playing COD4 I can't rush in blindly shooting wildly. I'd get mowed down in seconds. I need to plan my attack, pick cover, get the hell away from grenades, etc. The difference is that I have to do this all immediately, while shooting at the other guy. Turn based strategy allows for some deeper planning, as most people can't think several steps ahead while doing stuff. It all boils down to whether you like to think ahead, or think now.

Being one of the most hard headed proponents of Turn Based Gameplay I can't argue that it can get PAINFULLY boring sometimes (read: First 5 hours of Breath of Fire 3) or overly dependant on useless special abilities (read: SaGa Frontier/Romancing SaGa) and that sometimes action is a better option than this but inevitably when you have Party Based Real-Time Games that aren't made by Bioware or Obsidian you end up with the following problem.

Party Member A is AI controlled, and happens to be the healer... and they either never heal or burn through all of their best spells way to quickly.

Party Member B is AI controlled and is a fighter, they use their best skill at the wrong time and destroy the special move you'd been charging for a long time.

Problem is that Party AI in most action RPG's is HEAD HURTINGLY STUPID, and I like games with large casts of characters, hence Turn Based is the best option.

TheNecroswanson:
I unfortunately crusade against turn based. If a game lacks so much interactivity that I can ... finish up my character sheet for D&D... then it's nolonger a game.

D&D being the paragon of real-time games, of course. :P

Seriously, turn-based has its place for detailed strategy and tactical sims. Games like X-Com and Masters of Orion II remain favorites.

For me, it's how the turn based combat works or is presented that makes-or-breaks the game for me.

As a whole, JRPGS just don't do it for me, turn based or not. A bunch of effeminate men standing around in a line trading blows with the enemy, stuck in a cliched linear story line just kills it. Granted there are exceptions to every rule, but as whole the genre has little appeal to me. Yahtzee hits most of the points on the head in any of this JRPG rants in any of his videos.

However there are a lot of turn-based games I've really liked. I was hooked on Civilization IV for a while after it came out. Both 'Knights of the Old Republic' and the 'Neverwinter Nights' series are real-time engines built upon turn based rules and systems. 'Final Fantasy: Tactics' was fun back in the day. My favorite one of all is still the Fallout series (1,2, and Tactics on the PC. The console 'Brotherhood of Steel' game can suck it). Hell, I still play D&D once a month with a close group of friends.

I mean seriously, what if I don't want my generic spiky haired JRPG dude to use a sword? What about a gun? Screw that, back to Fallout. Where I can maim and destroy my enemies with everything from bare fists and BB guns, to mini-guns, plasma rifles, hand-held chainsaws.

The problem I have with turn based systems is that they completely break my immersion within the game world. I play games to get involved with their stories, their lore and their universe, and I hate nothing more than having an artificial rule saying I have to wait while my enemy tries to tear out my spleen before I can react. I always imagine turn based combat to be the realm of 'nerdy' heroes, with each fight playing out akin to:

Hero: Let us fight!

Rival: Indeed! ... what's your speed stat again? Mine's 32

Hero: Mine's only 29, but I get a +5 boost from my studded boots of the badger.

Rival: Oh, you can go first then.

Hero: Thanks. Now..... take this! *swipe*

Rival: *Flinches* Good shot old boy. Now then........ hmmmmm......

Hero: Well?

Rival: I'm thinking.

Hero: Oh. Do you mind if I go brew some coffee while you do?

Rival: Not at all.

*several minutes later*

Hero: Ah, I needed that. You decided what you're going to do yet?

Rival: Indeed, now watch this!

Hero: Watch what?

Rival: I'm charging my attack, I'm going to hit you next turn.

Hero: Oh, okay. Well, I'm going to drink this blue liquid!

Rival: What is it?

Hero: It's a potion of divine retribution, so if I die next turn, I come back to life with 3/4 health.

Rival: .... Bitch.

Well, that was longer than I anticipated, I started to ramble.

turn based strategy games can be awesome. see any of the total war series. it gives you time to marshall your forces and plan your strategy far more than real-time strategy games. and considering they take places over years and years, turn based strategy actual edges it in the realism stakes. turn based fighting however is retard because in an actual fight people don't stand away giving you your 'turn' instead they often just smack you about at any given opportunity.

I know I've posed this question before but... baring Bioware/Obsidian games name me a Real Time RPG that allows for good control and has parties of characters without head hurtingly stupid AI?

Clearly the people who truly hate turn based don't play many RPGs... or just play Oblivion, WoW and Diablo.

I have no problem personally with turn based combat. I've played my fair share of turn based J-RPGs as well as tactical turn based combat games, and have enjoyed them equally to many real time games. On the other hand there are many gamers that will want instant gratification and endlessly pressing the same damned button to execute the same damned attack animation say in final fantasy will bore just about anyone to tears if played long enough. Turn based is fine, but you've got to be in the mood for it and if your put off by not being able to take a break in the combat, try some research into the pause button.

PedroSteckecilo:
I know I've posed this question before but... baring Bioware/Obsidian games name me a Real Time RPG that allows for good control and has parties of characters without head hurtingly stupid AI?

The Dungeon Siege games are one RPG series that I'm aware of, even though they did differ between them. The first used scripts (Attack Nearest/Strongest/Weakest etc.) to control the members of the party that the player did not, while the second one introduced the ability to set an auto-cast spell-list which the party's mage(s) would perform as required (Eg. Heal, Summon, Buff spells) without the need for the player to activate them. There's more to it than that, but I haven't played them properly for years.

Dungeon Seige doesn't really have anything to do with controlling your party members though, it's pretty much just Build-Go and I've always found the combat downright boring because you do nothing but click once or twice and let the battle run itself while occasionally clicking on the heal button, that doesn't strike me as much better than turn based.

The characters/story in Dungeon Seige also suck but that's a different issue.

Being a pothead I too can vouch for turn based combat - it may not be the most interactive, but personally I like games that allow me to play them and smoke at the same time.

I'll admit that the combat isn't that impressive, but the games kept me amused when I was 13 or so.

The combat in The Witcher was more accomplished, but you specified party-based games, which I unfortunately don't play very often.

That's exactly my point, virtually nobody can do good Party-Based Combat in full Real-Time, the only reason the Bioware games work is because of the Turn Based Esque Pause feature, which is also in FFXII, a fast turn based game masquerading as a real time one.

Personally I like having colorful casts of characters in my RPG's, it's why I never liked NWN1 and why Oblivion doesn't appeal to me as much as Baldurs Gate/Final Fantasy do.

EDIT: Though I will admit that I find the "Pause" Feature found in the Bioware Games to be a perfectly acceptable comprimise between Turn Based and Real Time.

Well, I guess I should specify that the reason I don't play party based games often is due to my play-style in most RPGs being based around stealth, and large groups don't fit into shadows very well, and as such I'm mostly ignorant to the problems of AI party members.

Stealth is also something that turn based combat doesn't do well, mainly because most turn based games I tried to play don't even allow it, or if they do, the furthest it goes is either I get one free attack or I do bonus damage on my first hit.

Yeah the tbs in Fallout was flawed...but it was still a hell of alot of fun. I'm actually playing it right now. I just liked the post apocalyptic setting as well. It was just a fun game. Dogmeat! woo!

For people who say you can't control WW2 combat in real time, look at the Close Combat series to see how wrong that is.

Mr.Pandah:
Yeah the tbs in Fallout was flawed...but it was still a hell of alot of fun. I'm actually playing it right now. I just liked the post apocalyptic setting as well. It was just a fun game. Dogmeat! woo!

Oh was it ever fun, I still remember how all of my party members in Fallout 1 died.

Dogmeat died of radiation poisoning.

I killed Ian myself because he kept crit failing and shooting me in the back

...and I accidentaly sawed Cassidy in half with the Alien blaster.

But the big Blades Battle in the Boneyard took FOREVER and you only got ONE FRICKIN TURN!

Turn based combat works dependent upon the game. I find that it fits better with RPGs, it's one of the reasons why I left FFXII (bar the absolutely atrocious story consisting of 'errr... go to the other side of the world to do... something... and then be told be a character to back where you came from'.

Strategy RPGs, yum. PERFECT for a college student on the go. PSP + Disgaea or FFT or Jeanne D'Arc means between classes I can get a combat in (or save/pause during the battle) and just have fun.

Im dying for a good SRPG on the 360. I want some next gen special effects ;)

I love turn based stuff and real time stuff, each has it's place. As a D&D player, Turn based is just a different form of getting the job done, to me.

And yet no-one has yet mentioned the overlord of all strategy RPGs....FIRE EMBLEM! Also its second in command, FINAL FANTASY TACTICS! The original for the PS1, mind you.

If you haven't played these go do so now and then we can talk about turn based battle systems.