I recently bought Oblivion for the PC, because I actually like Elder Scrolls, and it was cheap and I've been meaning to get it once I got around to buying an Xbox 360. (I recently realized the two games I actually want to play, Oblivion and Bioshock, are both for the PC, so fuck you Xbox360. I don't need you.)

Anyways, I started out pretty promising. No gamefaqs, no cheating. Was getting some quests done. And then something glitched and I could not for the life of me find the stupid quest npc. It turns out he had somehow managed to fall through a wall and got trapped in a never ending void.

Thus I turned to console commands. Cue evil box opening cinematic. Yes, I was immediately seduced by the dark promises of console commmands. I saved over my lame plays by the rules file and started another. And another. And another. First a necromancer, then a Dark Brotherhood Assasin, then the Arena champion. One character after another, all heavily leaning on console commands. And I learned that it't no fun with console commands. I went through the Dark Brotherhood Quest line in two hours, start to finish. Only with the movetoqt command and additem (refID) (nn) command.

I'm not sure why I do this to myself. I always know that finding the cheats will only cause me to ruin the game for myself, but I always do it. I always open Pandora's box and ruin the experience.

Discuss
-Cheats
-How very weak I am
-Oblivion's total lack of immersion
-WOLVES (Dear god how I hate wolves, they are everywhere. That's why fast travel is so seductive. the damn wolves)

Oh Limos, how very weak you are.

But I was the same way with the PC version-- the exact same way, in fact. It wasn't until I played Oblivion on the 360 that I actually played through the game... which, in retrospect, wasn't necessarily the best choice. I ended up spending hours grinding stupid levels that I could have easily just entered into the PC console...

Alas.

I've not yet succumbed to the temptation of console commands, but I do regularly fall into the pit of abusing quicksave/quickload. As a PC newbie, I'd never had access to them before, and to a console player they seem to be extremely game-breaking.

Example: In Bioshock (which is fairly easy anyway), quicksave before you hack anything. If you screw up, oh well, just press F9 and try again.

Half-life 2: I don't think I died a single time because of the enemy (willful stupidity did it a few times though...), because I quicksaved every time there was a break in the fighting, so if I did something badly I could just quickload and try again.

Do other people do this, or is it just me being lame?

Cheats are bad.

You're very weak.

Oblivion totally lacks immersion.

God I hate wolves. Howzat?

I sometimes hope that the game didn't have quicksave because I use it way too much. It almost feels like cheating to save before and after anything happens.

I only use cheats after I've finished the game at least once.
In Oblivion I had to use some console commands because a bug prevented me from completing a quest.

As someone who primarily plays on a console, I don't cheat, and even when playing a PC game, something in me refuses to allow me to cheat. Yes, you are weak.

I only dabble in cheats for the LULZ. And rarely at that. I've used the console commands in Oblivion like, twice. Once for the game to NOT break; and the other time was to spawn a huge amount of zombies in a city.

Oblivion tries 'oh so hard' to be immersing; but it really seems like the developers never really played their own damn game. There's not much more for them to do, but they skipped on the important parts.

I agree that you are very weak. Very, very weak.
WEAK.

Unless it's the REALLY fun cheats like flying cars in GTA then I try to avoid cheating until I beat the game atleast once.

why does everyone feel the need to attack consoles anyway?

if they can immerse you into a game as much as PC without the use of quick saves and cheat prompts then it must be a good thing right?

Oblivion sucked anyway for me it lacks any intrigue

i found Oblivion immersive. I think most people do. Only the ones who find time to come on forums don't. Didn't any other of my geeky forum dwelling brethren find Oblivion to be good? Because I really did.

I only use cheats when I've finished the game 100% already.

And that's generally for "Big Head Mode," other funny things and (of course) the "dodo" cheats in GTA.

You're turning to the dark side, but it is never too late to turn back.

So long as you don't hack online games (Or Pokemon), you're still leaning towards the light.

jebussaves88:
i found Oblivion immersive. I think most people do. Only the ones who find time to come on forums don't. Didn't any other of my geeky forum dwelling brethren find Oblivion to be good? Because I really did.

Oblivion is my favourite game. Most of the hate on this forum comes from Yahtzee fanboyism.

In my opinion Yahtzee has poor taste in games anyway. I find it hard to agree with anyone that doesn't appreciate Planescape: Torment for its story.

I loved Oblivion, and have spent hundreds of hours on it with various different characters. Plenty of replay value, plenty of immersion. I could nitpick a few faults, but NO game is perfect.

Usually its a very quick decline for me, too. On Oblivion I turned 'no clip' on because I couldn't find the entrance to the main tower on one of the Oblivion maps, but it went downhill from there.

Glad Im still playing the 360 version, even though I have it for PC and the machine is more than capable of playing it... twice.

I try not to cheat. I do use mods, though, if I need a game on the PC to be fresh. I haven't done everything in Oblivion. When I first started playing, I always used to go straight out of the sewers into the ruins, then back out and left (facing out of the sewers). Well this time, I changed it up and was daring... I went ... right!

Lo and behold, I found something I have never seen before and I had fun! I can't wait to go to the Shivering Isles since I only breifly set foot in them.

Well, I've bought and played through Oblivion and I found it quite fun. I wont get into my personal opinion on the game or your weaknesses. What I'm going to comment on is "Why do we play video games?"

The answer of course is to have fun. If playing the game is fun, play the game, if cheating in the game you consider fun, then cheat. However if you find playing the game fun and are using cheats that skip large portions of the fun you're having then don't use them.

When I was a kid I used to play Commander Keen. I completed it, but I found using the 'flying pogo stick' cheat made the game fun again, as I could get to new areas I'd not been too before, get through some stages a lot quicker, etc. Playing total annihilation when testing out different strategies against the computer I sometimes used the "gain metal and energy" cheat.

If you're using cheats that skip large parts of the game, things like storyline and fun encounters then you're only cheating yourself out of the experience, but if you would rather skip through bits to get to scenario's you prefer then go for it.

_Serendipity_:
Half-life 2: I don't think I died a single time because of the enemy (willful stupidity did it a few times though...), because I quicksaved every time there was a break in the fighting, so if I did something badly I could just quickload and try again.

Do other people do this, or is it just me being lame?

Stop quicksaving! You can't screw up that badly to destriy the entire experience. Quicksave, use it rarely.

Also, how 'bout them wolves folks? Ain't they just a killer. *Boom tish*

Bowstring:

Oblivion is my favourite game. Most of the hate on this forum comes from Yahtzee fanboyism.

It speaks to Yahtzee's popularity that he, someone who harps on about how much he hates fanboys on a regular basis, not only has fanboys, but has people who disagree with him on the principle that they don't want to be fanboys and therefore call people who agree with Yahtzee fanboys.

UntrodTripod:

Bowstring:

Oblivion is my favourite game. Most of the hate on this forum comes from Yahtzee fanboyism.

It speaks to Yahtzee's popularity that he, someone who harps on about how much he hates fanboys on a regular basis, not only has fanboys, but has people who disagree with him on the principle that they don't want to be fanboys and therefore call people who agree with Yahtzee fanboys.

I don't disagree with him because I don't want to be a fanboy, I disagree with him because in my opinion he has poor taste in games. He's a funny guy, but I don't find his reviews very credible.

It's still pretty funny that he has his own fanboys, though.

And I actually agree with you that Oblivion was a lot of fun. But I also thought that it failed at immersion by way of interaction with characters, so meh.

I thought Oblivion was loads of fun, but I was also a big Morrowind fan. I wonder if those two correlate? I will admit that Oblivion wasn't as good as Morrowind, even with no cliff racers.

On the topic of cheats, I've found cheats are hit or miss. These days I'm loathe to use a cheat to beat a game, but if a cheat is loads of fun then I see no reason to dislike it. Take, for example, big head and paintball in Goldeneye. You could draw penises on the walls with your gun and get massive headshots whenever you wanted. That's the golden combination right there: penises and head shots.

I liked Oblivion a lot. And if you use fast travel, how are you supposed to pick every plant and vegetable on the way to your destination? Alchemy ftw!

You got to admit, Yahtzee is a funny guy, and some of his reviews are spot on.

Then again, many differ largely from my own opinion.

Anyway, this has gone off topic. Back to cheating on Oblivion, before a brown-noser reports us for not being good.

I'm glad 360 didnt have too many mods or cheats. That game really was pretty good in its standard form (with added Shivering Isles etc)

Please tell me if I am the only person that has noticed this immersion thing has come up only since the Yahtzee review?

Landslide:
I liked Oblivion a lot. And if you use fast travel, how are you supposed to pick every plant and vegetable on the way to your destination? Alchemy ftw!

You get the Frostcrag spire add-on, it has every ingredient, DLC ftw!
But I never game on my PC because it would be of more use in a fire, so I am left with just my laptop and it is hard to game on a laptop, with the X360 version there are no cheats but it does get to a point where the wolves are replaced with Ogres. They are bigger than wolves.

conqueror Kenny:
Please tell me if I am the only person that has noticed this immersion thing has come up only since the Yahtzee review?

My point EXACTLY. ;]

Funny that people should bring up quicksaving. I always used to think it was cheating, so I just didn't do it. Quake I played through a chapter at a time. Quake 2 I mostly just replayed the first chapter over and over because it was the best part (though I did eventually play it through, with some well-placed proper saves). Half-Life taught me how I really just needed to bite the bullet and hit F6 every few seconds. Doubly so Op For. Never played Blue Shift, sadly.

Some games I still don't quick-save though. Others I can't afford to - Fallout 2 had me playing and re-playing vast tracts (like the last level) over and over just to do it differently each time. Actually I'm very often like that in RPGs - I'll seldom play through the whole thing again, but I'll usually try all the options as I get them.

EDIT: Also, Kenny - immersion's been a pretty frequent topic, though I'll admit it's not seen so much use lately. In general though it's pretty common.

Actually, when my roommate and I got hooked on it last year, immersion was one of the things we consistently talked about. Honestly, one of the things that kept us laughing and interested were the hilarious NPC to NPC dialogue bits.
So, uh, you know, no, it's not just now coming up.

_Serendipity_:
*snip*

Do other people do this, or is it just me being lame?

No, thats being smart. If its a sopt where you're dying ALOT and you HAVE to get past it, quicksave in increments. The bit in Half Life @ where you break into Nova Prospekt *I sense no spoiler* taught me this the hard way.

LAME!

Just kidding. I do it too... fully knowing afterward that It's very hard to actually enjoy a game then, but I still do it.
In Oblivion, I did it to jump past grinding originally. Adding to stats to I could quickly level a new char up to where I wanted them to be. The good part about that game so far as level cheating goes is that it'll match you and make the enemies that much harder. (otherwise, I hate the leveled crap)
I will also admit to using 'cheat' mods that make the game more enjoyable to me. Like the Oblivion mod that adds the spell making and enchanting altars to each mage's guild. I earned it at least 5 times before getting that mod.. I just didn't want to go through all the mage's quests to play a decent mage. Also, the mod that lets you loot your arena kills. I was annoyed that I had just kicked all sorts of booty in the arena, then couldn't take the gear!
I would never cheat at a FPS unless I have beat the game 1st though. I guess it's an odd way of thinking, but to alter the game to what makes sense, or to speed through something you have already done, I'm OK with, but to do it just because you have trouble with it.. I dunno about that.

I see a big difference between the cheats that allow you to beat a game (money, health, weapons, lives) and ones that are just for fun (big heads, noclip).

I've played games where I was so stuck that I may as well stop playing the game. Cheating was the only way I could continue. You'd assume that would be pointless, because the next part would be even harder, but I rarely found that to be the case; some games were just ridiculously difficult in places.

I agree that cheats can make the game boring, especially if you find it difficult to avoid the temptation to use them. Many games are fun because of the challenge, so skipping the challenge makes the game boring. Others, though, use challenges as a way to spread out the story. Those games can be much more interesting when you remove the doldrums in between interesting parts (I'm thinking of WoW as a possible example).

And as for the fun cheats, well, they're just fun. Invulnerability was so much fun in GTA -- kill a few cops, get the FBI after you, grab a rocket launcher, and away you go. Or, in GTA2, spawn yourself a tank and have fun crushing cars. Back at a time when I actually enjoyed playing a sports game for a few hours, my friends and I would always play with the big heads mode, just because it was funny. Sometimes the most fun of cheats is just seeing what they do.

Oh I love them both, GTA and Oblivion are perfect examples, I have no problem closing Pandora's Box once it's been opened.

-and about the wolves, level up a little (or get a "no level scale" mod and you'll see all sorts of shit, and while you are there, MOD THE SHIT OUT OF OBLIVION - OMG RIDABLE SHEEP!) and you shouldn't see them that much, there's also a "more adventurers" mod where you find more "random protagonists" wearing Ebony armor and stuff (they are tough bastards though) so it adds more variety to the empty open world.

Also, it's good you discovered cheats - here's a good example;

@Kvatch - Have at thee daedra! *starts fighting daedra*

AI Buddy: HURR HURR *runs in front of your arrows, blades, and hammers, and spells*

*you fucking destroy him, whether it's intentional or not*

Other AI Buddy: OOOOHHHHH MMMYYYY GOOOOD, MUUUURDUUURRR, MUUURDUUUURR, SOMEONE HAS BEEN MURDERERD!

*gets rid of infamy and bounty - revives idiot character*

OK no need to reload 8 saves.

Cheating? Yeah, I used to do that...in 1996...

I'm with you, I think it ruins the experience, so I just plain don't do it... I never look anything up online, and definitely no console commands. As for quicksave, Mass Effect PC did it extremely right- When not in combat, you can quicksave to your heart's content, but as soon as combat starts you're locked until you can beat it in one go.

When I was playing Oblivion, I tended to play it as if I was the character, so my guy spent many hours training his magics in the mages' guild, because I viewed it as a college of sorts. I made a few spells that had simple effects and trained with them, stopping every so often to read a book or something, much as I would have if I were actually studying magic. Eventually I got tired of pushing the button and just bumped myself up a notch instead. Same result, just faster.

Likewise, I cheated in Oblivion by creating items that made sense. Here's an example. In Oblivion, you can either wear one shirt and one pair of pants -OR- one robe. For those who missed their counting lessons, if you wear a mages' robe, you lose an article of clothing, thus losing a slot you could wear an enchantment on. So I would mod in robes that had double enchantments on them that I wanted, so that I could look like a mage without actively gimping myself.

As to the quicksaving constantly thing, that's a Type A personality perfectionist symptom. Resist it!

- J

Nah i cheated more when i were younger, GTA: Vice city is a good example first time around i cheated so much that it was insane i had millions of dollars and every weapon at my disposal and if the cops were on me i'd just make them go away... Then i played it again a few years later, having forgotten all the cheats and i enjoyed it alot more. All in all cheats are bad.

GTA is a good series for cheating for fun. San Andreas was full of wacky cheats which were just bizarre (cars float away when hit)

Limos:
Discuss
-Cheats
-How very weak I am
-Oblivion's total lack of immersion
-WOLVES (Dear god how I hate wolves, they are everywhere. That's why fast travel is so seductive. the damn wolves)

*ahem*

Your pathetic weakness disgusts me. Die in shame by hanging yourself, and cleanse yourself with scouring fire before that. May wolves refuse to gnaw your bones in revulsion.

(good enough?)