In my last thread I read some very good points agaist me in my dislike of HL1 and I forgot to mention the the gamplay, whitch I admit makes it good but it is still spoiled by dificult puzzels and high standerds, and theres both points to this thread in one scentance.

I want to know what spioled a good game of yours or saved a bad one, it can be anything I'm just intrested in other ppl's opinions.

I agree with everything you have written there. you are a modern day [insert fantastic writer here].

*edit* was written when there was no text there.

no ... he is a subjective artist that lets us put what our minds wants... like hitchcock in his movies... never show the crime but let you imagen it

MSORPG pl4y3r:
In my last thread I read some very good points agaist me in my dislike of HL1 and I forgot to mention the the gamplay, whitch I admit makes it good but it is still spoiled by dificult puzzels and high standerds, and theres both points to this thread in one scentance.

I want to know what spioled a good game of yours or saved a bad one, it can be anything I'm just intrested in other ppl's opinions.

Wait did I miss the "dificult puzzels and high standerds" ?

derpa:

Wait did I miss the "dificult puzzels and high standerds" ?

Yeah...whats wrong with having hard puzzles anyway? even though they werent actually that hard but...yeah.

good games are spoiled by bad story lines, or cut scenes that take too damn long. Bad games are saved by addictive re-playability. In no way would I say that kororinpa marble madness is a good game, but I play it through every once in a while for giggles.

Also, what makes a good game bad is if it is too difficult to actually want to finish (such as GH3, or prince of Persia 2)

Writing writing writing. I hate it when a technically good game has bad writing (MGS)...

'Set path' game play really grinds me (see pretty much the Battlefield and Call of Duty series), which make you follow set tunnels through a map using invisible walls.
That's not to say I want to have dynamic objectives, I just hate being funnelled through some fking garden path when I know that the hill just over that fence would be a far more tactically sound position, but I cant because the developer thinks I'm too stupid to think of that idea.

I suppose in 1990 this was a little too much to ask, but it's 2008 (I think) so why is invisible clipping even in the game developers dictionary any more?

Sometimes there are good games that people dislike because theyre repetitive (Assassins Creed) and some bad games get saved by storyline.

Storyline can totally make a bad game good, and make a good game awesome. Max Payne and Deus Ex spring to mind, where as if they are good games is up to the indervidual but nobody can argue that the stories where not totally super fantastic :)

If it's your thing, some people believe that a bad game can be saved by multiplayer. For instance, I personally can't stand Halo, but co-oping it isn't so bad. Army of Two is another good example of a game that would've been outright terrible, but is (sometimes) saved by the "you had to be there" moments of co-op.

A good game can be killed by so many things. Unlikeable characters combined with bad voice acting is a pretty easy one (see: every time Spider-man spoke in Marvel: Ultimate Alliance). Really bad plot I can usually forgive, because really, this is gaming. We pretty much only do B movie plotlines. At best. The exception is when it's clear that the developer was not aware that they had a bad plot (see: MGS4). Games being repetitive is another culprit (AC, GTA4), or games having unbelievable graphics. Note that this isn't the same as "bad". Think Spider-man 3 or Too Human here. The characters just don't look right, they don't move correctly, their faces seem blocky or the textures don't line up correctly. I'm not saying graphics make the game, but if the character I'm playing just looks wrong, it bothers me.

- J

assasin's creed was a shallow game with great gameplay and good story but it lacked depth..
well games can be plagued by so many thing. graphics being one of my leasts concerns as long as they are effective/ I don't mind playing MGS or tony hawk pro skater 2 or crash bandicoot 3.
a game can rise or fall with all aspects that make a game
bad music
bad gameplay
bad storytelling
bad voice acting
bad level design
bad character design
bad character development
bad engine polishing (get those bugs out guys)
bad controls (because a great gameplay mechanic can be ruined by irresponsive controls)
unbalanced difficulty.
well that about sums what can ruin a game. but sometimes flaws are overlooked and forgiven just by the sheer awesomeness of the overall experience, take vice city, that game is not pretty and doesn't have the best controls but the game still rocks.
but in the end "goodness" or badness" is a personal thing.

Rez evil 4.

The damn controls.

A great soundtrack can really enhance an experience. See Halo.

1-800-STFU:
Rez evil 4.

The damn controls.

what damn controls... they work like a charm
headshot/roundhouse kick combo ftw

Mister Shades:
Storyline can totally make a bad game good, and make a good game awesome. Max Payne and Deus Ex spring to mind, where as if they are good games is up to the indervidual but nobody can argue that the stories where not totally super fantastic :)

Why was Max Payne's story so amazing, i never thought it was anything that special

What spoils a good game is the initial selling point not being worthwhile.
What saves a bad game is something incredibly awesome compensating for that disappointment.

Example..
GTAIV was spoiled for me when the reason I bought it (the sandbox) turned out to be a chore because of the games futile predilection to realism.
Conversely, GTAIV was saved because I found the story engaging, which is something I never expected.

GuerrillaClock:
A great soundtrack can really enhance an experience. See Halo.

Too true I thought Halo was an incredibly average game but it always seemed so cool when you were listining to the "da da da da na na..da da da da na na.."

Mister Shades:
Storyline can totally make a bad game good, and make a good game awesome. Max Payne and Deus Ex spring to mind, where as if they are good games is up to the indervidual but nobody can argue that the stories where not totally super fantastic :)

exactly. bioshock, for example, was saved by its art direction and story/storytelling. the games artistic direction is rivaled by very few games and even movies for that matter, and its story, while taking so much inspiration from so many sources, is probably one of the deepest and best in any video game so far. yet its both of these factors that saved the game from being the biggest flop since daikatana. the gameplay was repetitive, boring, depthless and just overall flat, espically the gunplay and mechanics, and the plasmids and tonics were pretty much just there to make the game seem like it had more depth the the gameplay than it actually did. for the most part the plasmids are only useful in a handful of situations (usually ones that are pre-determined by the game design, for example the elecrticity plasmid and any area with water), and some of them are just downright useless, the same can be said of the tonics, quite a few of them are completly useless during gameplay and there really arent any that do anything speical. on top of that theres also the fact that they have no negative side effects, how is it that such an extremly touchy medical advancement has no negative side effects to the player? this is something that most fps/rpgs have had in abundance (deus ex, stalker and even ss2). bioshock fell flat in the gameplay and mechanics department, its saving grace was the story and atmosphere.

Max payne story itself is not amazing but the way it is told is quite awesome.

The two mechanisms which can bring back almost any game: The Chainsaw.

And or strange weapons *coughshurikensandlightningcough*

One thing I hated about MGS4 was the so called "Mitochlorian Effect" (SW episode 1 where The Force is changed from something magical that you have to believe in into some sci-fi mumbo jumbo), they took away all the mystery and magic as they seem to fastidiously try to give the player what they want, they don't actually want answers, they want a mystery that creates its own mythos, a bit like LOST, for every question answered another two are brought up.

What really killed MGS4 for me was completely ignoring original stealth mechanics that worked so well in MGS1 where you were forced to hide from the enemy. You got this a bit by ACT 4 with the large number of robots you could play sneaking games, though the Tranq Gun could take out any soldier in the game with a single hit (delay from 10 to 25 sec) they won't even raise the alarm when hit. The tranq is clearly made such an effective weapon to encourage non-violence. Also ripping the shooting controls almost completely from Splinter Cell took away the reason not to fight, you couldn't fight in MGS2/3 due to the terrible controls but now that you can then there is no reason to be stealthy except around the Gekko who are few and far between.

A bad game can be saved by some humor, crazy stuff and mostly good ideas, if the game doesnt have them. Originality is a really really saving thing for them.

As for a good game, it can be spoiled by dumb dialogs and something like when you shoot 3 bullets at an unprotected normal human body and he's still shooting at you.

super_smash_jesus:
good games are spoiled by bad story lines, or cut scenes that take too damn long. Bad games are saved by addictive re-playability. In no way would I say that kororinpa marble madness is a good game, but I play it through every once in a while for giggles.

Also, what makes a good game bad is if it is too difficult to actually want to finish (such as GH3, or prince of Persia 900)

that one isnt out but i do agree

Well, the downfall of Alone in The Dark was Atari trying to ship that shit too quick. I mean, I could've ignored the silly story if the game play was more enjoyable and the physics engine was brilliant.

What I think ruins good games is keeping old game play elements just because they were in the previous game, even if they were not fun, shipping too early, small budgets and idiotic developers.

A bad game can be saved with an innovative feature or compelling storyline, a vital patch from the developers or perhaps the game's own community can salvage the game and patch it into a working state (see Vampire: The Masquerade Bloodlines).

Character design, if you can't stand the character you are controlling it will detract from a good experience, likewise if you really enjoy the character design it will soften how bad a game is.

The ability/inability to save your game should not be one of the points of difficulty!! For heaven's sake! Putting save points in terrible and scarce places to make a game more challenging just isn't right! In Persona 3 (FES in my case) you're constantly climbing this tower. You can go back to floor 1, the save point, at any time but it punishes you for not retreating at the right time. If you do not retreat back to floor 1 on the right floor, they'll make you climb all the floors between all over again, which gets so tedious. I tried to toughen up and last 10+ floors (and the amount between each 'save floor' continues to grow) but I always ended up dying and having to start over anyway.. That's a big breaker.

Other breakers..

Most recently, Eternal Sonata for the 360 was ruined for me. It was recommended to me and I was excited to play. And then the epicly long, uber boring, opening began.. and didn't stop. I was just so bored of it I decided to bring it back to Gamestop, retrieve my money, and pick up something else.

I'm now playing No More Heroes, which is amazing. But the camera angles are so extremely unforgiving at times. The first time I booted it up I spent way too long accidentally running up and down the stairs to Travis Touchdown's motel room.

The motivation of the story. A game can be forgiven of a lot of things if the story has a compelling motivation for the character you play to do what he/she/it is doing. A great plot and premise suck you in and keep you playing no matter how awful the graphics, music, voice-overs etc. might be. For example, the combat mechanics in Deus Ex are nothing to write home about. As a fighting game it's very lame. But the branching story with it's moral choices and twists and turns is as compelling or more so than a good spy movie so you feel compelled to slog through the "combat" and frustratingly inconsistant sneaking parts (sometimes is a breeze to get by the bad guys, other times your character can't even breathe without being seen) to find out what happens next.