You know this is easily the first time I've ever actually heard something negative about the non-japanese-heroes, who tend to range from Sock Puppets of Dragon Quest and Adventure Heritage *cough*GORDON FREEMAN!*cough* to stock characters who have a "Hi, I'm Duke Nukem XIV"-type personality. At least some of the Japanese heroes have something called a "personality" that's not just "BLOW IT OUT YOUR ASS!" or "...." while the other characters act like they are talking. (Again, you know who I'm talking about...)

I'd rather see a character who's less like them - you know like say maybe someone who says "Nah" when the villain tries to tempt them with power or someone who goes from intolerable emo with amnesia to someone who isn't as avoidant of social contact or a whiny spoiled brat who matures and then actually reverts to whiny-spoiled-brat for a little while.

AS the armoured space marine path will inevitably lead to 12 year olds telling me I'm gay/a girl/ a pussy/ a n00b/teh I-I4><><>04, I'm usually willing to go with the JRPG path, which has, by the way, pretty much consistently put out games with better characters and storyline.

I

LewsTherin:
AS the armoured space marine path will inevitably lead to 12 year olds telling me I'm gay/a girl/ a pussy/ a n00b/teh I-I4><><>04, I'm usually willing to go with the JRPG path, which has, by the way, pretty much consistently put out games with better characters and storyline.

I agree with that - Playing on an island that's really a massive ancient ship with a girl who attacks by blowing bubbles out of a straw really sticks out, even in games where you see six year old girls smacking an enemy with a flute.

I'm sorry but I call bullshit on the following statement: " the JRPG path, which has, by the way, pretty much consistently put out games with better characters and storyline."

Quick wiki dive into the average (3 random characters from 3 random games) Square Enix game character:

Heroes of Mana - Roget, A young warrior skilled with his sword who is forced to fight against loved ones at the cost of never returning home. His concealed emotions will never let anyone know he is quite lonely. His weapon is the sword.

Code Age Commanders - Gene, a young man who becomes amnesic after the Arks accident. He is the son of professor Alvin, one of the builders of the Arks, who disappeared some time after the accident. While searching for his sister Aliz kidnapped by a strange creature, Gene is mutated into a Warhead and watches his arm turning into a weapon during a battle against some Otellos. He is assisted by a small floating companion named Pake.

Christ, shoot me now. Is that creativity? I'd never thought I'd say this but give me Solid Snake's cast of rejects over this!

I've really gotten tired of both, though in all honesty, i find the powered armor cliche more palatable than the girly-manboy that fights evil with the power of angst. Which is HORRIBLE 'cause i've got this penchant for JRPGs.

Maybe I'm secretly a masochist....

Simon_TR:
Armored girly space marine with a huge sword!

I prefer whatever fits the story/game. If you're in space fighting aliens, why not be a space marine? Also, if you're in a super-stylized fantasy world you should definitely have the biggest sword possible.

Very true, it just depends on the game. But I actually prefer neither stereotypes. I actually like leading character like Gordon Freeman (doesn't need to talk) or like in Call of Duty in which you play not the loner hero, you actually feel you are part of a bigger team.

I prefer the Nathan Drake type character, the better-than-you everyman.

M0rp43vs:

-A bald headed motorcyle and battle cruiser driving marine in green
-A mutated female telepathic super soldier who is now evil and ruler of a giant alien swarm
-A humanoid mouthless alien with an awesom psychic blade and a wispy cloak that makes him invisible
(Cookie to the person who figure's em all out)

Fellas, please. All 3 show up in the little window at the bottom of the interface in Starcraft.

-The guy driving the Vulture Hoverbike and the General in charge of the Battlecruiser
-The Zerg hivemind
-The Protos Leader (WE REQUIRE ADDITIONAL PYLONS!)

As for the topic, I cannot sympathize with a character who's sword and hair defy every known law of physics, dresses like he tripped into the dumpsters of TJ Max and landed on a handgrenade, and who is so stuck up his own rear end that he is oblivious to all around him, including the slew of female supporting characters wanting to bob his snarky preteen nob. And the whole cliche emo/hippie personality behind them just sets me off. It's a personality thing on my part, I suppose. Regardless, I sympathize much more with a big burly soldier who is working over his grief of losing his family in an enemy firebombing by turning their faces into pancake batter rather than some adolescent in skimpy cloting whining about his sister being kidnapped by some dude with some world destroying motive etc.etc. It's just too out there for me.

nathan-dts:

Indigo_Dingo:
I have some emotions about him too - most of them disgust. At least the Japanese guys aren't arrogant.

I really aspire to be as big a SONY fanboy as you. (not sarcastic even though it seems it

That really doesn't make any sense. Sony don't make (a lot of) JRPG's.

It doesn't matter that much to me. But I'll admit that I'm getting tired of Squeenix basically trying to re-invent Cloud over and over. Okay, we get it. FF VII was a huge success. But maybe it had something to do with say... it was the first one that was oficially released in Europe? Or that it was on a new system that was wildly popular among westerners? Just guessing here, I'm sure it was all the big sword and spiky hair.
If we look past the protaginst though, JRPG's often have a few cool or interesting characters such as Auron or Balthier. And most JRPG's before FFVII don't suffer under the big sword full of emotions burden.

To bash a bit on the other side, male protagonists in western action games are equally laughable. Their emotions usually range from mildly annoyed to berserker rage. Way to stereotype men.

marcus a grumphy space marine, haze space marine, halo another armored dude all fightning alien scum. Even if the character backgrounds are strange it's far more creative than ... space marine and little is known about him.
And what about all those fighting games? Don't hear anyone complain about them. half the male cast of tekken is prettier than the female cast (or so it seems).
Even japanese games have hulky man look at barret from VII. mostly Jrpg characters are quite cliche but just as cliche as those space marine thingies.

Command and Conquer series(1995-present) Global Defense Initiative
Doom series (1993 - present) - the United States Space Marine Corps
Halo Series (2001-Present) - UNSC Marine Corps
Killzone series (2003-present) Interplanetary Strategic Alliance Marines
Mass Effect (2007-present) - Human Systems Alliance Marines
Metroid (1986) - the Galactic Federation Marine Corps
Quake series (1996-present) - the Space Marine Corps
StarCraft (1998) - Confederate Marine Corps later succeeded by the Dominion Marine Corps.
TimeSplitters 2 (2002) - Space Marines (Sergeant Cortez & Corporal Hart)
TimeSplitters: Future Perfect (2005) - Space Marines (Sergeant Cortez)
Turok (video game)
Warhammer 40,000 (1987-present) - Imperial Space Marine Chapters
Wing Commander Franchise (1990-1999) - Terran Confederation Marine Corps

a list of games with space marines.. and what do you know? they are in space... fighting... aliens... how...creative

They should make a game about the Blood Angels primarch Sanguinus. he's a girly long haired emo pretty boy musclehead in giant space armour.

Lets see, a lot of people claim Final Fantasy games have girly men with giant swords, lets count.
FF1-6 - They all midgets, so don't matter.
FF7 - yes, clouds is 2 big. Sephiroth on the other hand is just extremely long, by no means would it be heavy.
FF8 - the Gunblade of both Seifer and Squall are both useable, but impractical.
FF9 - Zidane's daggers were perfectly useable, even the double bladed things would be as well.
FF10 - Tidus and Auron's swords are not really that big.
FF11 - claymores?
FF12 - all the weapons are basically good sized. I mean, you wouldn't see me running around with the Holy Sword, but thats just cause i hate holy things, unless used by Ciel(<3)(Tsukihime for those who don't know)

So far I count 1, 2 if you include Sephiroth, but he isn't girly, just has a big sword. The first 6 are all 8/16 bit, so they can't really look girly. The rest yeah, most of the main protagonists are quite girly. I just pass it off as Square and crap wanting female gamers to like the games, and how many girls have you met that want Clouds love child?

Yes, I may be an idiot, some of my facts may be wrong. Honestly though, it makes sense to me, and thats all I give a damn about.

cainx10a:

Just because he is a badass doesn't make him a hero, Space Marines remind of me of Japanese soldiers during WW2, thinking their emperor is god, and his will is supreme. They are just mindless killing machines, like any other W40K races, maybe except for the Tyranids, they just want to eat.

The difference, of course, is that the Space Marines are correct.

GodsClown:
Sephiroth on the other hand is just extremely long, by no means would it be heavy.

That's bollocks. For a sword to be that long AND capable of combat, it needs to be folded over MANY times, making the metal very DENSE. If it wasn't dense, it would snap like a twig. With something that dense, it was probably remarkably heavy. Learn the basics of physics and chemistry before you make statements like that.

philman15:
Depends - Which of the games plays better?

I don't care, if a game sounds interesting and plays well, I'll buy it, regardless of the protaganist.

Even if that means she's a vegetarian PETA Activist who's flat as a wooden plank and has a unibrow. If said woman were, say, killing ninja zombie monkeys with blenders, swords, and a head of lettuce, goddamn, that'd be my friggin game of the year.

toasted. saluted. applauded. awarded.

DarthNader26:

GodsClown:
Sephiroth on the other hand is just extremely long, by no means would it be heavy.

That's bollocks. For a sword to be that long AND capable of combat, it needs to be folded over MANY times, making the metal very DENSE. If it wasn't dense, it would snap like a twig. With something that dense, it was probably remarkably heavy. Learn the basics of physics and chemistry before you make statements like that.

Uh...its a game? I was saying, if you just took it by image, not by combat usability, it wouldn't be that heavy. I never once claimed it was practical to use.

I have to say, I like Dante from Devil May Cry 3. I don't care what they look like or how big their sword is, so long as the character is a good character with good dialogue. Plus, for all you folks yelling that Cloud's sword is too big and unrealistic, I have two things to say. First of all, according to classical texts, a sword is supposed to measure "from the base of the pit of your arm to the ground". Second, Marcus Fenix has a chainsaw on a gun and is shooting giant sentient bugs. How realistic is that? You're playing a video game, not real life. It's not supposed to be reaistic, that's not fun.

GodsClown:

DarthNader26:

GodsClown:
Sephiroth on the other hand is just extremely long, by no means would it be heavy.

That's bollocks. For a sword to be that long AND capable of combat, it needs to be folded over MANY times, making the metal very DENSE. If it wasn't dense, it would snap like a twig. With something that dense, it was probably remarkably heavy. Learn the basics of physics and chemistry before you make statements like that.

Uh...its a game? I was saying, if you just took it by image, not by combat usability, it wouldn't be that heavy. I never once claimed it was practical to use.

The total implausibility of most JRPG weapons is just one of those things that rubs sand in my crack. It's a kneejerk reaction.

xitel:
I have to say, I like Dante from Devil May Cry 3. I don't care what they look like or how big their sword is, so long as the character is a good character with good dialogue. Plus, for all you folks yelling that Cloud's sword is too big and unrealistic, I have two things to say. First of all, according to classical texts, a sword is supposed to measure "from the base of the pit of your arm to the ground". Second, Marcus Fenix has a chainsaw on a gun and is shooting giant sentient bugs. How realistic is that? You're playing a video game, not real life. It's not supposed to be reaistic, that's not fun.

First, I'd like you to source that text. Maybe a longsword, but those were expensive and only lords and knights owned them. Claymores were supposed to be roughly the height of a man. Most common swords (they were anything BUT common, however, because they were very expensive) were about as long as the owners arm from the shoulder to his wrist. Shortswords, broadswords, arming swords, etc all fell into this catagory. Dirks and the like were even shorter. Bastard swords fit in between claymores and longswords, and were meant to give knights on horseback the flexibility once they were knocked over. Cloud's sword was twice his size. No sword in HISTORY has ever rivaled that.

Second, my favorite games are firmly grounded in reality. The characters look and act like real people in extraordinary situations. Sure, zombie invasions or militaristic alien regimes may not be very realistic, but the characters look and act like REAL people would under the situations. Look at STALKER. Most of the NPCs are just ordinary guys looking to make some money or to escape from something. In Half Life, you are an ordinary (abiet very smart) guy who gets thrown into an extraordinary situation. Shoot, even in games like Mechwarrior there is an air of realism. You feel like you are actually a part of this universe, and while it may be very different from ours, it is still firmly grounded in reality with people acting and reacting like they should. And anyone who denies the popularity of games like Ghost Recon and Splinter Cell need to have their heads checked. Realism in games is DEFINITELY fun.

I pick someone in between, an average Joe. I don't know maybe someone like Gordon Freeman. Not all heroes have to be muscle guys or a girly man.

But I guess If I had to pick from only those two options(which I do in this thread) I would pick badass marine guy. I can't remember the last game that I played and liked that had a girlish boy as the main character.

Gaming in general needs better characters. Most of them are either Camera's with Arms (Gordon Freeman), or Cliche's (everyone that isn't created by Tim Schafer, pretty much).

Swift Tactix:
I pick someone in between, an average Joe. I don't know maybe someone like Gordon Freeman. Not all heroes have to be muscle guys or a girly man.

GORDON FREEMAN IS NOT A CHARACTER! He's a Camera with arms, get over it.

(oops, should have worked this into the previous post)

I want my in game avatar to have as little character as possible. That way I can put my own character into them. That is why Gordon Freeman and Master Chief don't say much. After all I'm pulling the trigger, I should be decide weather the character is happy or not about what they are doing.

hamster mk 4:
I want my in game avatar to have as little character as possible. That way I can put my own character into them. That is why Gordon Freeman and Master Chief don't say much. After all I'm pulling the trigger, I should be decide weather the character is happy or not about what they are doing.

I bet your also one of those people who don't like "story" in your games right? *sigh* I don't know why I bother.

Eldritch Warlord:
tsk, amateurs.

James Raynor
Sera Kerrigan (infested)
Zeratul

Its Sarah Kerrigan, amateur :P

((Yeah, I know, really petty... but I just couldn't resist the delicious irony :P))

khululy:

1-Command and Conquer series(1995-present) Global Defense Initiative
2-Doom series (1993 - present) - the United States Space Marine Corps
3-Halo Series (2001-Present) - UNSC Marine Corps
4-Killzone series (2003-present) Interplanetary Strategic Alliance Marines
5-Mass Effect (2007-present) - Human Systems Alliance Marines
6-Metroid (1986) - the Galactic Federation Marine Corps
7-Quake series (1996-present) - the Space Marine Corps
8-StarCraft (1998) - Confederate Marine Corps later succeeded by the Dominion Marine Corps.
9-TimeSplitters 2 (2002) - Space Marines (Sergeant Cortez & Corporal Hart)
10-TimeSplitters: Future Perfect (2005) - Space Marines (Sergeant Cortez)
11-Turok (video game)
12-Warhammer 40,000 (1987-present) - Imperial Space Marine Chapters
13-Wing Commander Franchise (1990-1999) - Terran Confederation Marine Corps

a list of games with space marines.. and what do you know? they are in space... fighting... aliens... how...creative

Marines in space fighting aliens you say?

1- On Earth fighting NOD (rebels/terrorists)
2- In space (Mars) fighting demons
3- They are marines in space fighting aliens. Master Chief specifically isn't a marine, he's a trooper (a Naval soldier).
4- I can't say
5- They fight whoever they need to; aliens, humans, robots, they're all just enemies.
6- Yep
7- I can't say
8- Yep
9- I can't say
10- You said Timeplitters twice
11- Since when are extinct creatures from Earth aliens?
12- They fight everything, just because they don't worship the God Emperor. But yeah
13- I can't say

And really, what else is a space-based military gonna fight with? Ships? Shall I make a list of games that include military spaceships?

The sci-fi setting is very useful for games as it allows the developers to create new and interesting weapons and vehicles (and for other reasons). It may not be unique but are effeminate men with swords (proposterous or not) unique either?

M0rp43vs:
personally,
-A dog whose world is a canvas
-a psychic acrobat who goes to a psychic camp
-A gruff man with a beard, a cig and in a skin tight suit and a lot of character
-A bald headed motorcyle and battle cruiser driving marine in green
-A mutated female telepathic super soldier who is now evil and ruler of a giant alien swarm
-A humanoid mouthless alien with an awesom psychic blade and a wispy cloak that makes him invisible

-The protagonist (I forget his name) from Okami
-Raz from Psychonauts
-Solid Snake from the MGS series
-Jim Raynor from Starcraft
-Sarah Kerrigan from Starcraft
-Zeratul from Starcraft
Cookies!

I'd much rather be a powered armor marine than an androgynous weenie. If I could pick any video game protagonist to be, though, I'd go with John Vattic from Second Sight. All those cool psychic powers, but he's still a normal enough guy (except when he's walking down stairs, at which time his legs turn into Jell-O).

I really don't enjoy JRPGs and most fighting games, so I haven't ever played a game in which there are any really thin boys with huge swords (no euphamism intended), but I hate the very idea of them anyway. I have played games starring Beefy McMacho, and I hate those characters too, but they tend to be more likeable because they're a bit tongue-in-scarred-cheek. Final Fantasy and its ilk alwasys takes itself far too seriously, which just increases some people's contempt for the character design in particular.

Billy And Lance from Contra 3 are better than Marcus.

Who here can envision a Alfred Hitchcock film made into a game? THat way it's an average guy turned into average guy protagonist without guns.
Shut up, Fall of Liberty.

if a big sword is heavy, requires a big guy to use both hands to swing it, fine (see Arthas and Nightmare from soul calibur). The only exception i know of is cloud and his victory stance where he spins his giant sword in one hand.

Main characters in a game are supposed to be a proxy for the player, which is why i really hated vaan in FF12, the guy can't even properly talk to a woman.

So in my opinion: big sword = good, duke nukem wannabe = bad, girly man = very bad

i challenge anyone to name 3 JRPG characters who fit the stereotype "girly man with large sword"

Loving the typical mentality here.

Powerful = tall, brow as thick as tree trunk, weaponed up to hell, arrogant, james bond sex life

Weak = less than 6ft, no skin head, 1 weapon, would rather save the world than blow it up, has emotions

---------------------------------

I feel that the desperation to buy a game because the main character looks like he has a big cock is someone saying they're missing something in their life..............

im surprised to see the community in the escapist supporting gay rights in some topics and then condemning effeminate males in another

dannydamage:
Loving the typical mentality here.

Powerful = tall, brow as thick as tree trunk, weaponed up to hell, arrogant, james bond sex life

Weak = less than 6ft, no skin head, 1 weapon, would rather save the world than blow it up, has emotions

---------------------------------

I feel that the desperation to buy a game because the main character looks like he has a big cock is someone saying they're missing something in their life..............

haha, QFT. That's really how I feel sometimes.

But to be honest, we need more characters like Max Payne. And good dialogues as in Mass Effect that really break the boundary between generic action characters and flesh-out ones.