Before some of you go on a rampage and say how whiney, annoying, and pretty-boyish Raiden is...More or less the hate is just everytime you roll your eyes when Rose calls. I know I did, but during a discussion with my friend yesterday we pondered the thought..Would Raiden be nearly as hated as he is in that game IF Rose was never part of the picture?
I'm actually in the minority in that i didnt mind Rose. I just really was not that into Raiden. Not because how he looks(ok partly b/c of that) its just i really like snake. I was kind of interested in the rose calls from what i remember actually.
This game has the fingerprints of the Japs all over it.
You can tell it wasn't made in America.
DON'T replace the rugged manly man standard of manlyness who exudes manlyness with some pussy ass bitch who probably got raped by liquidus.
Also, most people hate it as i think it was the only mgs game on xbox to date, and sucked badly.
Aren't you the same guy that labels Fable 2 as a horrible game because you glitched your way to the end? "You can tell it wasn't made in America" Really, how ignorant and closed minded are you to believe just because something wasn't made in the "US of A" is automatically a terrible game?
I think the game overall would be called the weakest even if it didn't have Raiden at all, and was just Snake from beginning to end. The boss fights were largely uninspired (no equal to Psycho Mantis, The End or Laughing Octopus.... hell, the most interesting fight was a pregnant woman with no special abilities), the decor didn't change (Grey hallway? Huh, I wonder what it'll be like in two hours. Yep, grey hallway), the game spent a lot of time focusing on running around samey hallways, with a fair amount of backtracking for this one item that was just out of your reach the last time you where there...
I'm in the minority where I actually liked Raiden. I don't know what it was, maybe seeing Snake from a different perspective. He played a mentor to Raiden/the player and I liked that because I always looked up to Snake anyways. If you get me...
Maybe the amount Rose called you and whined could have been taken down a notch or two but I do think she was necessary. Gave you the feeling that Raiden was human and had something to fight for.
As someone who came into the Metal Gear games at #2, my dislike for Raiden was minimal. I really didn't mind him, Rose I hated like Mel Gibson hates the Jews very very much, but Raiden wasn't all that bad. People complain about how pretty-boy and pussified he was, but he still kicks more ass than the nerdy gamer types that bash him. How many Russian soldiers have YOU taken on? My hatred was all Rose, why is a love interest always a requirement? If a game was made about me in a crusade against the church, the closest thing to a love interest I have is my right hand, are they going to include that in the game, or some buxom blonde I've never met? Or could they just leave the romance out of the action titles?
I think Rose and Raiden were both essential parts of the storyline.
Spoilers? Rose filled a role that helped augment Raiden in specific ways, in ways that the overseeing general and snake couldn't augment him. She was another tool being used in fine-tuning Raiden, and her actions/annoying messages are excused - they were purposfully overdone by the developers so that they would nag on your mind, exactly as they nagged Raiden.
You could see Rose's effect on Raiden every time he responded - immaculate voice acting - with a pained, 'yeah-i-guess-this-can't-wait-till-later' voice.
I thought Raiden was the perfect character to offset Snake - thinking about how -good- that game was makes me want to go back and play it through again. Gosh... I should play twin snakes on my GCN (easier on the eyes than the original ps1 game) then mgs2, 3, and 4 all over again this weekend...
BTW
Khell_Sennet: I really didn't mind him, Rose I hated like Mel Gibson hates the Jews very very much.
I don't don't don't want this to turn in to anything, but i thought I'd just quickly distribute some knowlege on this subject:
Being Australian I find it hard to beleive Mel truly detests Jews. We aussies really don't have any stupid, irrational "they-steal-our-money-fairly" northern stance against the religion. Our nation is too young to develop any stance like that, anyway, generally we direct big dislike at greek imigrants (I shouldn't say 'we' because I don't really consider myself an australian so much as an international)
That said it's perfectly possible that Mel is shallow enough to pick up said stupid, irrational stance.
Raiden is the greatest stunt in gaming history. Anyone who dislikes him or his inclusion in the game is missing the point by such a wide margin that it's not even worth talking about. Ditto Rose.
I'd like to raise a controversial point. Half of the dialogue between Raiden and Rose isn't real - its the system mimicking Rose and trying to control Raiden. I think it stops being Rose just before the infamous "empty like your soul" codec call.
Khell_Sennet: I really didn't mind him, Rose I hated like Mel Gibson hates the Jews very very much.
I don't don't don't want this to turn in to anything, but i thought I'd just quickly distribute some knowlege on this subject:
Being Australian I find it hard to beleive Mel truly detests Jews. We aussies really don't have any stupid, irrational "they-steal-our-money-fairly" northern stance against the religion. Our nation is too young to develop any stance like that, anyway, generally we direct big dislike at greek imigrants (I shouldn't say 'we' because I don't really consider myself an australian so much as an international)
That said it's perfectly possible that Mel is shallow enough to pick up said stupid, irrational stance.
I'd like to point out that it wasn't his Australian side that hates jews, it was his crazy Christian side. His Aussie sides been dead since 1992.
Indigo_Dingo: I'd like to point out that it wasn't his Australian side that hates jews, it was his crazy Christian side. His Aussie sides been dead since 1992.
This game has the fingerprints of the Japs all over it.
You can tell it wasn't made in America.
DON'T replace the rugged manly man standard of manlyness who exudes manlyness with some pussy ass bitch who probably got raped by liquidus.
Also, most people hate it as i think it was the only mgs game on xbox to date, and sucked badly.
Aren't you the same guy that labels Fable 2 as a horrible game because you glitched your way to the end? "You can tell it wasn't made in America" Really, how ignorant and closed minded are you to believe just because something wasn't made in the "US of A" is automatically a terrible game?
Why yes, yes i am.
And i don't automaticly label it becuase it isnt american, i hate it because it was bad.
I am just saying they made another FF man girl who cant sleep without his teady.
Syphonz: Before some of you go on a rampage and say how whiney, annoying, and pretty-boyish Raiden is...More or less the hate is just everytime you roll your eyes when Rose calls. I know I did, but during a discussion with my friend yesterday we pondered the thought..Would Raiden be nearly as hated as he is in that game IF Rose was never part of the picture?
I don't think he would. What about you?
Yes, of course. No matter what you change he still is not Snake, and that's who people wanted to play.
Indigo_Dingo: I'd like to raise a controversial point. Half of the dialogue between Raiden and Rose isn't real - its the system mimicking Rose and trying to control Raiden. I think it stops being Rose just before the infamous "empty like your soul" codec call.
Yeah, I agree - that's what i said
urprobablyright: I think Rose and Raiden were both essential parts of the storyline.
Spoilers? Rose filled a role that helped augment Raiden in specific ways, in ways that the overseeing general and snake couldn't augment him. She was another tool being used in fine-tuning Raiden, and her actions/annoying messages are excused - they were purposfully overdone by the developers so that they would nag on your mind, exactly as they nagged Raiden.
You could see Rose's effect on Raiden every time he responded - immaculate voice acting - with a pained, 'yeah-i-guess-this-can't-wait-till-later' voice.
I thought Raiden was the perfect character to offset Snake - thinking about how -good- that game was makes me want to go back and play it through again. Gosh... I should play twin snakes on my GCN (easier on the eyes than the original ps1 game) then mgs2, 3, and 4 all over again this weekend...
I'll award you fifty thousand props points for dropping a huge plot twist spoiler right smack dab in the middle of the forum, tho :P
My problem with 2 was, well slightly Raiden, but mainly lack of the really clever codec conversations. MGS1 was full of them. There were so many jokes to be found and so many tips and/or backstory that you could find yourself just be dialing up people on the codec. Miller, Naomi, Otacon, Meryl, the Colonel, Natasha and Mei Ling all had different personalities and offered you different advice in certain situations. It seemed that Sons of Liberty only gave you a new frequency when your previous contact died, meaning at any one time you had only 2 or 3 people to call for help or plot advancement.
So yes, Rose could have been the problem, but not because of her character but because she was one of the only characters you could talk to, and because of that she became irritating. In small doses she would have been tolerable.
I'll admit that 4 did this to a certain extent, but it made up for it by being 8 shades of awesome.
Indigo_Dingo: I'd like to raise a controversial point. Half of the dialogue between Raiden and Rose isn't real - its the system mimicking Rose and trying to control Raiden. I think it stops being Rose just before the infamous "empty like your soul" codec call.
Yeah, I agree - that's what i said
urprobablyright: I think Rose and Raiden were both essential parts of the storyline.
Spoilers? Rose filled a role that helped augment Raiden in specific ways, in ways that the overseeing general and snake couldn't augment him. She was another tool being used in fine-tuning Raiden, and her actions/annoying messages are excused - they were purposfully overdone by the developers so that they would nag on your mind, exactly as they nagged Raiden.
You could see Rose's effect on Raiden every time he responded - immaculate voice acting - with a pained, 'yeah-i-guess-this-can't-wait-till-later' voice.
I thought Raiden was the perfect character to offset Snake - thinking about how -good- that game was makes me want to go back and play it through again. Gosh... I should play twin snakes on my GCN (easier on the eyes than the original ps1 game) then mgs2, 3, and 4 all over again this weekend...
I'll award you fifty thousand props points for dropping a huge plot twist spoiler right smack dab in the middle of the forum, tho :P
If they haven't played the game already, why are they coming to this board? I would assume that anyone who comes to a thread discussing Metal Gear Solid 2 has played the game.
And I didn't see your response when I posted that.
A bad game is a bad game, ET was a bad game, too human was a bad game...MGS2 WAS A TERRIBLE GAME!
I'm not one to shout 'BLASPHEMY' often... and u know what i won't say it this time.
What I will say is it's pretty obvious that you have a taste in games that is very... out of the ordinary, and that i respect your opinion. Though I might not share it. And I never really thought I'd see the day that someone held it.
A bad game is a bad game, ET was a bad game, too human was a bad game...MGS2 WAS A TERRIBLE GAME!
I'm not one to shout 'BLASPHEMY' often... and u know what i won't say it this time.
What I will say is it's pretty obvious that you have a taste in games that is very... out of the ordinary, and that i respect your opinion. Though I might not share it. And I never really thought I'd see the day that someone held it.
Meh, thats what you get after playing guild wars for 4.5k hours...
Syphonz: Before some of you go on a rampage and say how whiney, annoying, and pretty-boyish Raiden is...More or less the hate is just everytime you roll your eyes when Rose calls. I know I did, but during a discussion with my friend yesterday we pondered the thought..Would Raiden be nearly as hated as he is in that game IF Rose was never part of the picture?
I don't think he would. What about you?
Yes, of course. No matter what you change he still is not Snake, and that's who people wanted to play.
Yes, I think we all want to play Snake. All the time. But I couldn't play Snake in MGS2, so I figured: "Why the hell not see who this Raiden girl is?" It turned out that I enjoyed the game and actually ended up liking him. Also, he was a perfect medium through which to see the awesomeness that is Solid Snake. Is it really such a bad thing when a dev does not give the fans exactly what they want? Should they only cater to the rampant fanboy that lives hidden in me? I love that I was challenged to see another perspective. If nothing else MGS is about the lack of black and white. Always a twist coming up. So Raiden is just another twist. Much as I love Snake Eater (and love it I do) I always found it rather strange that Solid Snake and Big Boss happened to be identical. They are clones, right, but they have been shaped by different lives. I think it was rampant fan service. I LOVED it. But I think it's cool they tried out other stuff in MGS2.
This game has the fingerprints of the Japs all over it.
You can tell it wasn't made in America.
DON'T replace the rugged manly man standard of manlyness who exudes manlyness with some pussy ass bitch who probably got raped by liquidus.
Also, most people hate it as i think it was the only mgs game on xbox to date, and sucked badly.
Aren't you the same guy that labels Fable 2 as a horrible game because you glitched your way to the end? "You can tell it wasn't made in America" Really, how ignorant and closed minded are you to believe just because something wasn't made in the "US of A" is automatically a terrible game?
Why yes, yes i am.
And i don't automaticly label it becuase it isnt american, i hate it because it was bad.
I am just saying they made another FF man girl who cant sleep without his teady.
...I'm really really really sure that you could not take on one russian soldier.
Let alone a man that can hit your eye with a throwing knife from 4 miles away.
So please, please, shut up before you make MORE of a fool of yourself.
Syphonz: Before some of you go on a rampage and say how whiney, annoying, and pretty-boyish Raiden is...More or less the hate is just everytime you roll your eyes when Rose calls. I know I did, but during a discussion with my friend yesterday we pondered the thought..Would Raiden be nearly as hated as he is in that game IF Rose was never part of the picture?
I don't think he would. What about you?
Yes, of course. No matter what you change he still is not Snake, and that's who people wanted to play.
Yes, I think we all want to play Snake. All the time. But I couldn't play Snake in MGS2, so I figured: "Why the hell not see who this Raiden girl is?" It turned out that I enjoyed the game and actually ended up liking him. Also, he was a perfect medium through which to see the awesomeness that is Solid Snake. Is it really such a bad thing when a dev does not give the fans exactly what they want? Should they only cater to the rampant fanboy that lives hidden in me? I love that I was challenged to see another perspective. If nothing else MGS is about the lack of black and white. Always a twist coming up. So Raiden is just another twist. Much as I love Snake Eater (and love it I do) I always found it rather strange that Solid Snake and Big Boss happened to be identical. They are clones, right, but they have been shaped by different lives. I think it was rampant fan service. I LOVED it. But I think it's cool they tried out other stuff in MGS2.
Big Boss had a pretty different personality I think. He was much more laid back and humorous than the snake I'd grown use to. It was a nice change of pace.
My feelings about MGS2 are kind of love/hate, but I will give Hideo Kojima credit for being brave enough to change things up by introducing Raiden. It definitely stands as one of the ballsiest things I've seen in a major video game.
Aries_Split: Big Boss had a pretty different personality I think. He was much more laid back and humorous than the snake I'd grown use to. It was a nice change of pace.
I'll give you that. He wasn't as "intense" (if that's the right word) as Solid Snake, but I still think the resemblance is uncanny. :) Anyways, it doesn't bother me in the least when I play the game. i just love every second.
I'll give you that. He wasn't as "intense" (if that's the right word) as Solid Snake, but I still think the resemblance is uncanny. :) Anyways, it doesn't bother me in the least when I play the game. i just love every second.
Me neither, MGS4 was amazing, but I don't think Kojima will ever surpass Snake Eater in terms of sheer epicness. I cried a little at the ending of MGS4.
I'll give you that. He wasn't as "intense" (if that's the right word) as Solid Snake, but I still think the resemblance is uncanny. :) Anyways, it doesn't bother me in the least when I play the game. i just love every second.
Me neither, MGS4 was amazing, but I don't think Kojima will ever surpass Snake Eater in terms of sheer epicness. I cried a little at the ending of MGS4.
But it was a train of tears at the end of MGS3.
It was the mot amazing ending I've seen in a game yet. The whole game was a monument to sheer awesome bad assery combined with feeling, intelligence and suspense. I wish i hadn't left it at my brothers place right now. Much as I loved MGS4 it was just not as good.
I didn't hate MGS2 and I will still occasionally play it. I didn't like Raiden and I thought he was a poor character choice. If Kojima hadn't let us play as Snake in the Prologue I may not have cared as much though, because of that it felt more like mockery.
I like all the MGS games, (except 4, cuz I dont' have a PS3 and haven't played it yet), and I actually play MGS2 the most, but not for the reasons people think. The BEST part of the game, I thought, was the virtual missions. Even after I finished the story mode, the VR missions gave me HOURS of more gameplay, I just wish they included the bonus disc for MGS3 in that box set...
Weeeell... yes and no. A game that literally was one of the most anticipated games of the PS2 basically soiled itself when it had Raiden and Rose. To the game's credit, Rose is less annoying in MGS4. Also, before the game was even released, the parts of the game that had Raiden in it had Solid Snake.
Weirdly enough, Hideo Kojima said that Raiden was actually a likeable protagonist for the Japanese crowd of MGS fans. I can understand that. Raiden had a lot of traits about the Japanese. When looking back at the second game, Raiden had honor, he was brave, despite being young and inexperienced in the field of real battle, and had a lot of love and care for the people he loved. He showed traits that most American's would consider to be "wimpy". And don't forget the final battle against Solidus
It's why I love the Metal Gear Solid series so much. You have to dig a bit deeper to reach the true diamond
Weeeell... yes and no. A game that literally was one of the most anticipated games of the PS2 basically soiled itself when it had Raiden and Rose. To the game's credit, Rose is less annoying in MGS4. Also, before the game was even released, the parts of the game that had Raiden in it had Solid Snake.
Weirdly enough, Hideo Kojima said that Raiden was actually a likeable protagonist for the Japanese crowd of MGS fans. I can understand that. Raiden had a lot of traits about the Japanese. When looking back at the second game, Raiden had honor, he was brave, despite being young and inexperienced in the field of real battle, and had a lot of love and care for the people he loved. He showed traits that most American's would consider to be "wimpy". And don't forget the final battle against Solidus
It's why I love the Metal Gear Solid series so much. You have to dig a bit deeper to reach the true diamond
Before some of you go on a rampage and say how whiney, annoying, and pretty-boyish Raiden is...More or less the hate is just everytime you roll your eyes when Rose calls. I know I did, but during a discussion with my friend yesterday we pondered the thought..Would Raiden be nearly as hated as he is in that game IF Rose was never part of the picture?
I don't think he would. What about you?