Meh I don't think LBP or R2 are selling poorly I saw a PS3 ad yesterday and I did catch the tail end of an R2 ad same day as well same for LBP. I also saw a Mirror's Edge ad for the PS3 earlier this week.

It does make me angry that games that are just what the PS3 needs are being left in the dust. Little Big Planet is the ultimate example for me, making me actively wish that I had a PS3. Why has this yet to revolutionise things? It seems like Sony is determined to keep MotorStorm as their most popular game.

Not sure what to think about this. Marketing is a factor certainly, but I think Sony knows in their heart-of-hearts that every single PS3 owner will know about Resistance 2 coming out, so why sink money into advertising it? I also think the person who wrote the article is somewhat off base...

"From what I have seen of it, it is hands down the best looking game on any of the current consoles, even rivaling the graphics of a high end PC. This is a game that quite honestly could sell itself solely based on graphics."

...graphics haven't sold games for a long time. Just take a look at the game market. In order, the most graphically impressive platforms are:- PS3, Xbox360, Wii. In order, the best performing in terms of sales are:- Wii, Xbox360, PS3. People just aren't bowled over by graphics anymore, especially at a point where innovative and fun gameplay is disappearing.

Richard Groovy Pants:
I'm sorry for my dumbness and probably not getting the point, but wasn't LBP marketed to death?

Where I live I couldn't go to a video game store without watching at least one commercial about LBP.

Same here. I don't recall ever seeing so many TV advertisements for a game as I've seen for LBP.

No, the fact that they're exclusive to the PS3 is. That's not bashing the PS3, it's just math. Only a certain percentage of potential owners are going to buy any given game. Being exclusive to the PS3 gives you the smallest possible audience for a console title. Therefore it's likely that they're going to sell fewer copies than the equivalent game on another console (or on multiple consoles). This is a real problem that Sony is struggling with, and it's why there's been a lot of previously exclusive titles going multi-platform (same for previously Xbox 360 exclusive titles by the way).

Now sure, marketing can increase the percentage that adopt the game, but let's be honest here. LittleBigPlanet is an interesting and good game, but it has a relatively limited audience. Resistance 2 is Just Another Shooter™ in the grand scheme of things. Neither are really what you'd consider system moving titles - they're just not that kind of material. (Ditto for a personal favorite, Disgaea 3)

That said, Sony also isn't doing nearly as good of a job pushing their products as Microsoft is (either in quantity of ads, or quality of them). Hell, look at our site and how they're promoting Banjo-Kazooie. But advertising isn't the primary reason.

It wouldn't surprise me, they do need a new marketing department. I mean has there been a Playstation 3 Console ad campaign that hasn't been creepy?

It does make sense. Let's compare Sony to a wealthy family.

In a wealthy family the child doesn't need to learn everything the average child does, mainly because they are going to inherit a lot of money, and thus can buy the services of others to fill in the gaps of what they haven't learned. There are some exceptions to this, the parents that put their foot down and say "You aren't getting a penny until you get a job, and keep it."

Sony is a huge company that doesn't seem to know how to market an underdog product in general, this is because they never really had to. When you look at the PS1 and PS2 they were both great success stories. This was because yes, the console was solid and it came with good backings. Even for the PS1 most of the marketing was done not by Sony, but by everyone else.

We'll take Little Big Planet and compare that to Spore. Both games are very similar. They are both very content driven games, and by content I mean content that is created by the user. During most of Spore's development cycle, the editors were always in the spotlight. Maxis made sure that the single best features of the game were always under the shining light. Now look at Little Big Planet, when we look at it you see a platform game that has this unknown and mysterious editor that can supposedly allow users to make great user content.

When you look at the Little Big Planet advertisement, you get little to no actual footage of the editor. And I'm pretty sure the same goes for many of the Little Big Planet trailers. Sony had to get out there and tell people "Hey, we have a great simple game that has an amazingly complex editor. You can do whatever you want with the editor, and play through your created levels using some easy to use and fun controls." But they didn't, they barely even demonstrated what the editor really looked like, or was capable of.

Despite Spore's bad rap, we can't deny that Spore is the start of something that is potentially amazing. Someone out there is bound to take these great ideas that we saw in Spore and blow us away with a much better representation of those ideas. And despite Spore's bad rap, it sold like hotcakes because it was so amazingly well marketed.

Oh and Crysis sold like ass. I'm sorry, but graphics is one of the least efficient ways to sell a game.

There need to be more Mirror's Edge commercials. The one I caught would have made me want to play the game had I not already played the demo. I also have to say that Dead Space was really sneaky in how they advertised their game with the comics on Live and PSN; more games should use this tactic. I'd love to see short comics for Killzone 2. Frankly I had figured that the article would be more concerned with online connectivity problems on par with the hell that was and is Socom Confrontation.

I disagree with the article. Seeing a GOW 2 commercial during every commercial break did not make me want it more or less. Same with Fallout 3. Same with Spiderman WOS. Same with a big mac or Subway. The fact that there wasn't the huge traditional ad campaign didn't hurt Sony or improve MS. If a person is interested in any game they will buy them. How? by going to a store or using an online store. Either of wich will have big ads and boxes of said games for the consumer to see. If they are interested in LBP and have the money they will buy it regardless of how many TV spots and billboards they see. I find the article a bit insulting personally.

Have we become a society of mindless sheep that need executives to constantly force thier ads down our throats before we can make an intelligent decision on what game we would like or not like to buy? We spend between $200 - $600 for a console alone but we "miss out" on these "killer apps" because Sony didn't advertise enough? Cuz we don't know how to use the internet perhaps? Or walk buy a local store to see a gazillion posters of these games plastered all over thier windows? Dear lord it couldn't be that maybe ppl weren't all that interested in LBP or Resistance 2. That these games only appealed to a certain group and not the majority of gamers. Or maybe because Fallout 3 dropped within the same 2 week period and not everyone has the budget to buy every game that drops. Naw lets blame the marketing team!!!!!!

This is a ridiculous assertion. Resistance 2 is advertised. I watch almost no commercial television, and I've seen commercials for it. They don't go on full blitz mode like MS is wont to (e.g. Halo/GearsoW complete saturation bombing and slurpee tie-ins), but I'm one of those weird consumers who get jaded by over hype. I've literally NEVER bought a game based on the commercial. I may be odd.

I'm glad there isn't a Killzone2FC Extra Heart Clogging Jumbo Ass Meal. I would have thought the author of that article would be too. I'm still buying the game.

Indigo_Dingo:
Never heard of Crysis?

Yes I have heard of Crysis.

http://www.techpowerup.com/index.php?47250

http://www.theinquirer.net/gb/inquirer/news/2007/12/17/hardware-geeks-fail-bump-crysis

http://www.pcworld.com/article/140623/pc_games_crysis_and_ut3_flop.html

I heard it flopped, thus helping to establish my point that graphics are not really a high selling point for games.

SaintWaldo:
This is a ridiculous assertion. Resistance 2 is advertised. I watch almost no commercial television, and I've seen commercials for it. They don't go on full blitz mode like MS is wont to (e.g. Halo/GearsoW complete saturation bombing and slurpee tie-ins), but I'm one of those weird consumers who get jaded by over hype. I've literally NEVER bought a game based on the commercial. I may be odd.

I'm glad there isn't a Killzone2FC Extra Heart Clogging Jumbo Ass Meal. I would have thought the author of that article would be too. I'm still buying the game.

Dude Halo 3's ad campaign was the most horrific ever. I mean goddamn it was EVERYWHERE! I barely ever watch TV but there it was no matter what channel I had it on. Most annoying shit ever.

cuddly_tomato: I had heard it sold one million units which I don't consider a flop but eh.

They are selling poorly? Where is the evidence of this? Please provide it. I had no idea and had the impression that they were selling quite well.

cuddly_tomato:
Not sure what to think about this. Marketing is a factor certainly, but I think Sony knows in their heart-of-hearts that every single PS3 owner will know about Resistance 2 coming out, so why sink money into advertising it? I also think the person who wrote the article is somewhat off base...

"From what I have seen of it, it is hands down the best looking game on any of the current consoles, even rivaling the graphics of a high end PC. This is a game that quite honestly could sell itself solely based on graphics."

...graphics haven't sold games for a long time. Just take a look at the game market. In order, the most graphically impressive platforms are:- PS3, Xbox360, Wii. In order, the best performing in terms of sales are:- Wii, Xbox360, PS3. People just aren't bowled over by graphics anymore, especially at a point where innovative and fun gameplay is disappearing.

They never have been bowled over by graphics long enough to keep a company afloat.

Historically, it's the consoles with the worse graphics that succeed.. Even the N64, it wasn't able to match the playstation's vast amount of space, but I'm pretty sure it was more powerful graphically, it's just that the limiting factor of it's storage medium didn't allow it to ever truly stretch its legs.. And the playstation whupped its ass.

The Xbox was arguably more powerful then the playstation 2 (although I really don't want to get into a flame war about it), but it didn't have the hardcore game developers to make really good games for it. It definitely had a few gems, but the PS2 certainly won that generation.

This trend goes all the way back to the days of Atari, when Atari was stomping the floor with companies like Coleco and even their own "nexgen" system failed to beat it's older system.

squid5580:
I disagree with the article. Seeing a GOW 2 commercial during every commercial break did not make me want it more or less. Same with Fallout 3. Same with Spiderman WOS. Same with a big mac or Subway. The fact that there wasn't the huge traditional ad campaign didn't hurt Sony or improve MS. If a person is interested in any game they will buy them. How? by going to a store or using an online store. Either of wich will have big ads and boxes of said games for the consumer to see. If they are interested in LBP and have the money they will buy it regardless of how many TV spots and billboards they see. I find the article a bit insulting personally.

Have we become a society of mindless sheep that need executives to constantly force thier ads down our throats before we can make an intelligent decision on what game we would like or not like to buy? We spend between $200 - $600 for a console alone but we "miss out" on these "killer apps" because Sony didn't advertise enough? Cuz we don't know how to use the internet perhaps? Or walk buy a local store to see a gazillion posters of these games plastered all over thier windows? Dear lord it couldn't be that maybe ppl weren't all that interested in LBP or Resistance 2. That these games only appealed to a certain group and not the majority of gamers. Or maybe because Fallout 3 dropped within the same 2 week period and not everyone has the budget to buy every game that drops. Naw lets blame the marketing team!!!!!!

if you're trying to say advertising doesn't work because you weren't personally influenced by it, you're wrong. Advertising is the crux of capitalism.

Indigo_Dingo:

Virgil:
No, the fact that they're exclusive to the PS3 is. That's not bashing the PS3, it's just math. Only a certain percentage of potential owners are going to buy any given game. Being exclusive to the PS3 gives you the smallest possible audience for a console title. Therefore it's likely that they're going to sell fewer copies than the equivalent game on another console (or on multiple consoles). This is a real problem that Sony is struggling with, and it's why there's been a lot of previously exclusive titles going multi-platform (same for previously Xbox 360 exclusive titles by the way).

Now sure, marketing can increase the percentage that adopt the game, but let's be honest here. LittleBigPlanet is an interesting and good game, but it has a relatively limited audience. Resistance 2 is Just Another Shooter™ in the grand scheme of things. Neither are really what you'd consider system moving titles - they're just not that kind of material. (Ditto for a personal favorite, Disgaea 3)

That said, Sony also isn't doing nearly as good of a job pushing their products as Microsoft is (either in quantity of ads, or quality of them). Hell, look at our site and how they're promoting Banjo-Kazooie. But advertising isn't the primary reason.

Realistically though, the constrained audience thing doesn't apply to a title like LittleBigPlanet. Every review seems to centre around the point that "everyone should love this game" and "there's something to attract everyone". Therefore, thats not a major issue. And no game has ever seen full sales on the console, aside from Wii Sports and Super Mario Bros.. There are over 17 million Ps3 owners out there, so its not like it doesn't have the potential audience to be a chart topper.

Just because a bunch of ppl decide they are the leaders of mankind and have the right to tell everyone what they should or shouldn't like doesn't mean they will actually like it. I know all about the game and personally I wouldn't buy it. It doesn't appeal to me. I don't want to sift through a bunch of user created levels. I don't care to make my own for someone else. To me that takes my limited gametime and turns it into work.

Indigo_Dingo:
Realistically though, the constrained audience thing doesn't apply to a title like LittleBigPlanet. Every review seems to centre around the point that "everyone should love this game" and "there's something to attract everyone". Therefore, thats not a major issue.

I think that LBP is hyped up enough to make us, the people who pay attention to these things, think that it's bigger than it actually is. To be a real best-seller though, you need to at least hit the masses of hardcore gamers, and a cutsey platformer (even with awesome world building tools) is just not going to do that when faced with titles like Fallout 3, Gears of War 2, a WoW expansion, or any of the other phenomenal titles hitting these days.

And the PS3 doesn't have enough of an audience outside that hardcore gamer demographic to push titles like LBP into best-selling status without reaching them as well.

damn, you just reminded me I can't play killzone 2. balls.

Indigo_Dingo:
I think a couple of you are misinterpetting what he's saying. Its not that advertising is likely to convince anyone - we are not zombies, okay? The problem is that they have not raised the publics awareness of the game. Go up to a Wii owner, and ask them what LittleBigPlanet is - do you think they'll know? Go up to someone who bought GeoW2 and ask them what makes Resistance 2 unique - probably the same answer. Its not about convincing anyone through advertising alone - its about letting the customer become aware, and letting the concept itself sell the game.

And you will get that info from a 30 second tv spot (well prolly 25 seconds if you don't count the logo stuff) or from a billboard? People of all consoles either do some research or they don't. A tv ad isn't going to make them run over to thier computer and start doing the research on the next big game. Especially if they are the type who buys games because of the shiny box covers.

Virgil:

Indigo_Dingo:
Realistically though, the constrained audience thing doesn't apply to a title like LittleBigPlanet. Every review seems to centre around the point that "everyone should love this game" and "there's something to attract everyone". Therefore, thats not a major issue.

I think that LBP is hyped up enough to make us, the people who pay attention to these things, think that it's bigger than it actually is. To be a real best-seller though, you need to at least hit the masses of hardcore gamers, and a cutsey platformer (even with awesome world building tools) is just not going to do that when faced with titles like Fallout 3, Gears of War 2, a WoW expansion, or any of the other phenomenal titles hitting these days.

And the PS3 doesn't have enough of an audience outside that hardcore gamer demographic to push titles like LBP into best-selling status without reaching them as well.

I think we will have to wait for christmas to really see what LBP does. R1 didn't exactly do so hot when it first came out, but after about a year or two it hit something like two million+ sales.

Virgil:
To be a real best-seller though, you need to at least hit the masses of hardcore gamers, and a cutsey platformer (even with awesome world building tools) is just not going to do that when faced with titles like Fallout 3, Gears of War 2, a WoW expansion, or any of the other phenomenal titles hitting these days.

Oh, and I'm not saying that this is how it should be, just how it is. These same gamers are the ones that didn't buy Psychonauts or Beyond Good & Evil either, which is a similar tragedy.

cuddly_tomato:
...graphics haven't sold games for a long time. Just take a look at the game market. In order, the most graphically impressive platforms are:- PS3, Xbox360, Wii. In order, the best performing in terms of sales are:- Wii, Xbox360, PS3. People just aren't bowled over by graphics anymore, especially at a point where innovative and fun gameplay is disappearing.

Console sales don't equal game sales, graphics are a big factor on the PS3/360.

Indigo_Dingo:

Geo Da Sponge:
It does make me angry that games that are just what the PS3 needs are being left in the dust. Little Big Planet is the ultimate example for me, making me actively wish that I had a PS3. Why has this yet to revolutionise things? It seems like Sony is determined to keep MotorStorm as their most popular game.

Its not, Metal Gear Solid IV is, and has been since its release, with over 4 million copies sold.

Sorry, I'm still using the quite outdated information from wikipedia. Anyway, I've said it before and I'll say it again, Little Big Planet seems to serve as an example that PS3 has it's fair share of idiots (though still probably less than Xbox Live). Far too many of them have decided that they are too 'hardcore' for a game that requires major time investment to get the most out of and has a thriving online community that supposedly works together towards a common goal. Of course, this is based on what I've read on youTube, so I may have a rather biased demographic here.

TheBadass:

cuddly_tomato:
...graphics haven't sold games for a long time. Just take a look at the game market. In order, the most graphically impressive platforms are:- PS3, Xbox360, Wii. In order, the best performing in terms of sales are:- Wii, Xbox360, PS3. People just aren't bowled over by graphics anymore, especially at a point where innovative and fun gameplay is disappearing.

Console sales don't equal game sales, graphics are a big factor on the PS3/360.

Yeah and games sales doesn't mean graphics sell games.

The reason it's being poorly marketed is because they are marketing the wrong features. This begs the question; I already have a 360, so what will actually MAKE me want to go out and buy a PS3 and get LBP or Resistance 2?

Now... granted the PS3 costs a buttload, and the 360 is like, $250 now? Fully featured?

No. Sony's decision to market themselves as the antithesis of Nintendo and thus cater to the "safe and familiar" crowd is why an innovative title like LPB is not selling well.

AceDiamond:
No. Sony's decision to market themselves as the antithesis of Nintendo and thus cater to the "safe and famliiar" crowd is why an innovative title like LPB is not selling well.

Where is the evidence it's not selling well?

shadow skill:

AceDiamond:
No. Sony's decision to market themselves as the antithesis of Nintendo and thus cater to the "safe and famliiar" crowd is why an innovative title like LPB is not selling well.

Where is the evidence it's not selling well?

Well that's what this thread topic was about so I answered the question. Was I not supposed to answer the question?

AceDiamond:

shadow skill:

AceDiamond:
No. Sony's decision to market themselves as the antithesis of Nintendo and thus cater to the "safe and famliiar" crowd is why an innovative title like LPB is not selling well.

Where is the evidence it's not selling well?

Well that's what this thread topic was about so I answered the question. Was I not supposed to answer the question?

That was the question yes, but there is no proof that the premise is accurate, at least I haven't seen any. Furthermore the article linked by indigo seems to assume that because there isn't saturation bombing style advertising (To borrow another poster's phrasing.) that KZ2 isn't being advertised.

shadow skill:

AceDiamond:

shadow skill:

AceDiamond:
No. Sony's decision to market themselves as the antithesis of Nintendo and thus cater to the "safe and famliiar" crowd is why an innovative title like LPB is not selling well.

Where is the evidence it's not selling well?

Well that's what this thread topic was about so I answered the question. Was I not supposed to answer the question?

That was the question yes, but there is no proof that the premise is accurate, at least I haven't seen any. Furthermore the article linked by indigo seems to assume that because there isn't saturation bombing style advertising (To borrow another poster's phrasing.) that KZ2 isn't being advertised.

Well ok then.

I'm not taking back what I said though because I believe that this could happen, if it turns out LBP does not sell as well as projected.

Richard Groovy Pants:

Indigo_Dingo:

cuddly_tomato:
Not sure what to think about this. Marketing is a factor certainly, but I think Sony knows in their heart-of-hearts that every single PS3 owner will know about Resistance 2 coming out, so why sink money into advertising it? I also think the person who wrote the article is somewhat off base...

"From what I have seen of it, it is hands down the best looking game on any of the current consoles, even rivaling the graphics of a high end PC. This is a game that quite honestly could sell itself solely based on graphics."

...graphics haven't sold games for a long time.

Never heard of Crysis?

And the point is that they want to advertise the games in order to attract new customers - thats the main point of advertising. Duh.

Crysis sold terribly, granted that many people bought it for the graphics but still I wouldn't use it as an example.

And people are surprised that exclusives sell less than multi-platformers? Why I never.

REALLY? Selling one million copies is selling terribly? Because Crysis sold over one million copies.

http://www.incrysis.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=612