perfectimo:
The Wii is winning because it did what every company has ever wanted to do and they did it well. They sold their product to every type of person out there, it seems this is called selling out. I thought it was called business.

It is business and selling out at the same time. But Nintendo dose not care. That is why I don't care about Nintendo anymore. I supported them during the GameCube days, but now they can bloody well piss off.

Kwil:

kanada514:

It all doesn't matter anyway. If you don't sell games, you're going where? "In a place"...yes..say it with me.."called Nowhere".

This boost brings the life-to-date attach rate of Nintendo's unit up to 4.64, while the PlayStation 3 is currently at 4.26 and the Xbox 360 is at 7.0.

4.64 x 36m console sales = 167m games sold (Wii)
7.0 x 22.5m console sales = 157m games sold (Xbox)
4.26 x 16.7m console sales = 71m games sold (PS3)

You were saying about selling games?

And I can repeat that all I want, it's true.

You certainly can repeat it. But it's still not true.

What is that you sent?
4.64 for the Wii
7.0 for the X box 360.

7 being greater than 4.64, I win.
One advice though. In a debate try avoiding to give your opponents weapons against you.
It's a defavorable strategy.
You really served me that one in a silver platter.
I remind you, the issue was not the number of consoles sold. But the quantity of games owned per console.
But thanks for doing my research for me.

Richard Groovy Pants:

Kwil:

kanada514:

It all doesn't matter anyway. If you don't sell games, you're going where? "In a place"...yes..say it with me.."called Nowhere".

This boost brings the life-to-date attach rate of Nintendo's unit up to 4.64, while the PlayStation 3 is currently at 4.26 and the Xbox 360 is at 7.0.

4.64 x 36m console sales = 167m games sold (Wii)
7.0 x 22.5m console sales = 157m games sold (Xbox)
4.26 x 16.7m console sales = 71m games sold (PS3)

You were saying about selling games?

And I can repeat that all I want, it's true.

You certainly can repeat it. But it's still not true.

Win!

Oh wait, that's a year old.

Still (this is not directed at the post I quoted) I love how fanboys just ignore facts when they're put right in front of their nose. .

Can you read those facts exposed in front of your nose and tell me that 4.64 is bigger than 7.0? We're still talking about quantity of games per console right? You didn't just change the topic right?
You just called yourself a fanboy.
Your derogatory sentence was aimed at yourself after all.

TsunamiWombat:

Eggo:

Ultrajoe:
Won is a relative term, and depends on what you call a 'win'.

In sales, certainly, but in sales to actual 'gamers'? Well, i haven't seen the statistics to make a call on that.

Yeah, actual gamers build their PCs and buy and play on Steam.

Apparently i've gotten fat sitting inside and playing videogames for well over a decade for nothing, i'm not an actual gamer! Fie and fiddlesticks, I shall now go and play this shooty hoops game everyone seems so witherdither about.

I haven't laughed that hard in a long time.

Richard Groovy Pants:

kanada514:

Richard Groovy Pants:

Kwil:

kanada514:

It all doesn't matter anyway. If you don't sell games, you're going where? "In a place"...yes..say it with me.."called Nowhere".

This boost brings the life-to-date attach rate of Nintendo's unit up to 4.64, while the PlayStation 3 is currently at 4.26 and the Xbox 360 is at 7.0.

4.64 x 36m console sales = 167m games sold (Wii)
7.0 x 22.5m console sales = 157m games sold (Xbox)
4.26 x 16.7m console sales = 71m games sold (PS3)

You were saying about selling games?

And I can repeat that all I want, it's true.

You certainly can repeat it. But it's still not true.

Win!

Oh wait, that's a year old.

Still (this is not directed at the post I quoted) I love how fanboys just ignore facts when they're put right in front of their nose. .

Can you read those facts exposed in front of your nose and tell me that 4.64 is bigger than 7.0? We're still talking about quantity of games per console right? You didn't just change the topic right?
You just called yourself a fanboy.
Your derogatory sentence was aimed at yourself after all.

Silly rabbit, maths aren't for you.
I like how you're missing out on the rest of the equation on purpose.

It's 4.64 x 36, not 4.64, and it's 7.0 x 22.5 not 7.0.
If you're telling me that 7.0 x 22.5 is bigger than 4.64 x 36 well then I will righteously flip you off and direct you to the nearest math tutor.

Is 15/15 bigger than 10/2 ? Or am I missing your completely skewed point?

How exactly does the 36 and 22.5 influence the average number of copies sold per console owned. It has no impact whatsoever.
Quit changing the topic.
That 36 and 22.5 you keep bringing up are irrelevant as they only demonstrate how well the console sold due to its price, not the quality of games.
The numbers you keep posting however do show how the games are more appreciated among X360 users as they own more copies per console owner.

If a billion people had a Wii, but half of that never had actually bought a game because they are so crap, you'd still have 500 millions of copies sold.
But it would still be representative of how unappreciated Wii games are.
Do you understand now or do you want me to go through it a third time?
It's okay I have a talent for pedagogy and I don't mind slow learners.

Well:

-Cheap
-Expanding to new audiences
-Even though the motion controls are usually used for gimmicks, it did offer something new (and the pointer still works extremely well in some games)
-The name Nintendo slapped on it
-Virtual Console (for a lot of 'retro gamers' and Nintendo fans, this is a major selling point)
-Money printing function (I still didn't find the button that activates it though)

I own a Wii, I've been a gamer all my life. Since the Atari, NES, etc.; I own a PC also so graphics have never been an issue to me. I had a Gamecube while XBox and Playstation where kicking ass with graphics, I had my PC to make up for that. To play games for the graphics, the PC is the best option (though expensive). If you bought the Wii for the graphics you are mistaken, I bought it for the innovation, something differente. Gaming is in dire need of a change, FPS's can only go so long. I own Super Mario Galaxy (classic Mario), Mario Kart Wii (very fun online), Pro Evolution Soccer 2008 (I'm never playing a soccer game with other controls, the controls on this are awesome), Madden 09 (very good game), No More Heroes (thank you Suda51!), Okami (a PS2 classic I always wanted to play) and Guitar Hero III (gotta have it, right. Great fun). The upcoming games for the Wii look very promising to me, so I have no complaints. For games like Oblivion, Crysis, Farcry, Call of Duty 4, etc. I have the PC. No problem, with the Wii and a PC I'm a happy gamer.

Basic!
The PS3 is a black monstrosity that is overpriced and has a low line up of exclusive games, Also isn't backwards compatible.

The Xbox360 is a good all rounder that has a strong line up of exclusive games and backwards compatibility, medium priced and it also has a strong support from Xbox Live which is the best online gaming community of the three making the multiple console games to be more attracting for multiplayer, but the controls aren't so friendly to every one and isn't as appealing to parents with small children (as goes to the PS).

The Wii is low priced, easy to play and use and it is welcoming to all audience which in sales perspective is the winning formula as it is the larger audience! If i were a parent i rather buy my children a child friendly game then a action shooter and this is the thought of millions of parents.

The Wii hasn't become the most sold console, yet, but it has been around for two years and out of the 7th generation consoles it has won! and by a landslide!
I don't know what people are saying in this thread that it hasn't won, because in technical terms it has won because the main competitors of this ongoing discussion is about the 360 the PS3 and the Wii and out of those three the Wii has Won;

PS3: 16.84 million units sold,
360: 22 million units sold,
Wii: 34.55 million units sold,

PS2 however: 140 million units sold(but has been around since 2000 so its no wonder it has sold so many).

The Wii won the initial selling battle, but not the console war. The fact is that gaming has moved into its own media of art, like a movie or television show. Sony and Microsoft have adapted to this change and offered story and quality instead of simply sitting and attempting to get to the end for no real reason. Games back in the day were simply meant to be played for their own sake. The mario games didn't start out with a cut scene explaining where and why bowser kidnapped peach, it simply started you in the first world and you saw a goomba that would kill you if you touched it...so you jumped over it. The Wii is continuing to assume that you don't care about story and relies on because-i-said-so gaming. This kind of gaming flew back in the 80s because games were new and undeveloped. Now we have to ability to make them compelling and appeal to people, and as gamers matured so did the games. Nintendo is more 'old school' and so appeals to people inexperienced with games, but those who have played their whole lives are moving forward.

If Nintendo could just adapt to the new trends, they'd be back in the game so to speak; but they can't. Exclusives are a dying breed because people don't want to buy multiple systems to play all they want, and companies make more money selling more copies. The Wii hasn't had many 3rd party big name titles because no one wants to completely re-adapt the gameplay to fit the unique controller, or to downgrade the graphics. In retrospect, the sixaxis is a better idea because you have the basic controller there but the ability to incorporate motion sensory if you want, but hindsight is 20-20. Basically, I would be surprised if the next generation nintendo console didn't have a more standard control scheme or some sort of adaptation.

If nothing else though, this generation of consoles had woken us up to the risks of buying a new console right off:
The Wii was innovative, but had no lasting appeal,
The PS3 had incredible graphics, but other than that was basically an expensive ps2 with no games,
And the 360 was released early, but its hardware was a bucket of sick.

The consoles have lately begun to compensate for their flaws, but it leaves me wondering if I shouldn't wait two years before purchasing the 8th gen

Indigo_Dingo:

Amazingly, sales figures do not indicate quality, just as box office sales do not indicate the inherent meaning and artistic value of the product.

Truer words were never spoken in this thread.

Eggo:
It seems people are either defining the winner by quantitative measures such as console sales (Wii wins that obviously) or by qualitative measures such as...well, whatever helps them say that the Wii hasn't won.

But it hasn't yet Eggo. This current gen of consoles is far from being over. I think this is more of a "Rabbit and the Hare" situation than anything else. For all we know the Wii could tank in a year of so and the Ps3 could sell in upwards of 100 million+ in the next few years. You never can tell.

Who said the Wii won?

Hell, why is it still in the race?

In my book the Wii doesn't even count as a game console, but a high tech toy.

I hope they transfer Zelda, Mario, and Metroid franchises to another system or something, because when a gamer says he is going to go home and play the Wii it just doesn't scream gaming.

I just back my argument with the Wii doesn't even support many of the third party games any more and has become its own entity. I guess its still gaming but not gaming as we know it, but a brand new branch at the side that is happen to be doing well.

As far as I'm concerned, the Wii lost. I have one, and I can't remember the last time I bought a game for it. It has been gathering dust with the complete lack of good games coming out for it. There was Zelda Twilight Princess, Mario Galaxy, Super Paper Mario, and Metroid Prime 3, and that was it. If something mind-blowing comes out for it, then I'll recant my statment.

Sewblon:
I have heard a lot of complaints about the Wii And I don't get as much use out of mine as I would like to but it outsold the Xbox 360 and the Playstiation 3 combined. How did nintendo do it? I think it was the marketing and the expectation of gameplay innovation instead of just glistening graphics and Havoc physics.

Well, the PS2 outsold the Wii.

I mean, if we're going to compare apples to oranges.

axia777:
It is business and selling out at the same time. But Nintendo dose not care. That is why I don't care about Nintendo anymore. I supported them during the GameCube days, but now they can bloody well piss off.

I stopped after the Gamecube too.

BallPtPenTheif:

Sewblon:
I have heard a lot of complaints about the Wii And I don't get as much use out of mine as I would like to but it outsold the Xbox 360 and the Playstiation 3 combined. How did nintendo do it? I think it was the marketing and the expectation of gameplay innovation instead of just glistening graphics and Havoc physics.

Well, the PS2 outsold the Wii.

I mean, if we're going to compare apples to oranges.

The Wii is part of this console generation, the PS2 is not. The
Wii is competing against the PS3 and The Xbox360 and the Wii is winning.

Indigo_Dingo:
Please, don't argue with reality. The Ps3 has some outstanding offers now and in the future, but it doesn't have enough of an audience to overtake the Wii. Sony underestimated the size of the potential-new-gamer market. The Wii doesn't need anything else - its market has not reached saturation, and can continue to sell solely on what it has now.

You discount many factors. For example, when happens if the PS3 comes down in price to $299.99? Blu Ray is not failing what ever you may hear and the PS3 is getting many more games. In a ten year life span for the PS3 many things can happen.

In my opinion, the Wii has (so far) out performed the others by being the second console. Most console gamers own either an Xbox360 or a PS3, not both of those. What is the logic of owning both when they are more or less the same device anyway? Almost all games that appear on the PS3 appear on the Xbox360, and vice versa. Yes, I know that both have exclusives, but do those exclusives justify shelling out 300 dollars on a PS3? Or a monthly fee for an Xbox Live account?

So if you get one of those, and decide to get another console, the best option is the Wii.

Ace of Spades:
As far as I'm concerned, the Wii lost. I have one, and I can't remember the last time I bought a game for it. It has been gathering dust with the complete lack of good games coming out for it. There was Zelda Twilight Princess, Mario Galaxy, Super Paper Mario, and Metroid Prime 3, and that was it. If something mind-blowing comes out for it, then I'll recant my statment.

I meant for this discussion to be about the quantitative factors in the console market. Everyone, please do not mention what games that you like or do not like and do not talk about Nintendo or anyone else "selling out."

I for one don't care about the 'winning' of any console. What I do like about the Wii however, is how it opened up not only the market for games, but also a lot of peoples minds about what gaming is and can be. Before, my mom would not understand how I could enjoy gaming so much, then she played a bit of Wii sports and totally got it.

We have the traditional consoles in the 360 and PS3, which for all intents and purposes are fine machines, we don't really need a 3rd party on the same setting as they are. The Wii took a different road and did it well without leaving us gamers hanging, imo.

Sewblon:

Ace of Spades:
As far as I'm concerned, the Wii lost. I have one, and I can't remember the last time I bought a game for it. It has been gathering dust with the complete lack of good games coming out for it. There was Zelda Twilight Princess, Mario Galaxy, Super Paper Mario, and Metroid Prime 3, and that was it. If something mind-blowing comes out for it, then I'll recant my statment.

I meant for this discussion to be about the quantitative factors in the console market. Everyone, please do not mention what games that you like or do not like and do not talk about Nintendo or anyone else "selling out."

K

Aside from the one or two new innovations we have seen from Nintendo themselves (Wii Fit, Wii Music, and Wii Sports), the Wii is a garbage dump of shovel-ware. Instead of focusing on high quality games, we see Ubisoft shit out a new Petz or Animalz or Prostitutez. Why? Because they see casual gamers eating this shit up in barrels.

And yet you still manage to miss my point: that by your logic (new gamers = n00bz = shitty games) the release of any titles or consoles in the past which helped spur the commercial growth of the game industry was inherently bad, because it encouraged the release of shovelware which appealed to mainstream tastes. Unfortunately, at best the sentiments you're expressing suggest a troublous relationship with reality, as the game industry - and I understand that certain periods yielded better games than others - has generally managed to become more diverse and improve in spite of having continually become more commercial.

I have no doubt that the Wii already has and will have a profound influence on the industry. Of course, you seem to be under the assumption that any influence is necessarily a good influence. I praised the Wii early on in it's life-cycle due to the innovative controls that it brought, but have quickly come to realize that these innovative controls have largely been ignored by third-party developers and only Nintendo has occasionally stepped up to the plate to use these innovative controls in interesting ways.

I remember saying early on, when I first heard news of the Wii's control scheme, that the risk of pursuing it was that Nintendo would alienate third-parties who wanted to cheaply and easily port games (which has now become the bread and butter of the industry). So much for console customization.

But in any case, I wouldn't neccessarily assert that the influence of the Wii is negative. I say this because I find the presumption elitist that what's positive is consoles which appeal to an 'installed' user base: by contrast, I think it's possible that by opening the demographic floodgates, and revitalizing interest in simplist design, the Wii has provoked a major re-thinking of the way games are developed and who they appeal to, which could help get them off the 'beaten path' they've slavishly followed since atleast the sixth generation. This re-thinking, I should add, has nothing to do with Bratz or Petz or Prostitutez: those are simply growth pains, which attest to the impossibility of successfully diverging from industry formula overnight - handheld gaming wasn't exactly a golden pantheon when the Game Boy was first released, was it?

I don't hate kids, it's just their under-developed taste for entertainment tends to put out pretty bad stuff.

Again, your logic is inconsistent. Alot of kids owned the NES when it released the likes of Mario Bros., Zelda, Dragon Quest and Metroid. "Maturity" is in no way synonymous with "quality", nor even the ability to discern what media is worthwhile: Toy Story, for example, is still a categorically "better" movie than alot of the bullshit that adults watch. Children know as well as anyone else when they're dissatisfied with what they're playing.

UsefulPlayer1 has it most correct, I think. The Wii hasn't won because the Wii isn't in that fight anymore. Most Wii purchasers aren't choosing between a Wii and an Xbox or a Playstation, which is what the console wars boiled down to. They're just picking up a Wii.

Microsoft and Sony lose nothing to Nintendo for most people who purchase a Wii because they were never in the running to purchase an Xbox or PS3 anyway.

kanada: Your first argument was that the Wii hadn't won because they weren't selling games and were losing money on every console. When we showed you that, unlike the other companies, they hadn't lost any money on the console, you fell to the fallback position of they weren't selling games. When we showed you that they've actually sold more games than the other consoles, you change to a new position of how what you actually meant was games sold/console.

However, as you yourself point out, things change depending on how many consoles sell whether we're talking total games or attach rate. If someone makes a dud console that only sells 10 units, but the people who get it eventually purchase all 15 games released for it, that gives it an attach rate of 15. Does that mean it's won? Or does that mean these poor schmucks already had the machine so just got whatever they could for it?

There's really only two ways to quantifiably judge which console has actually "won" --
The first is "Which console generated the most income for its parent company?"
Under that measure the Wii walks away with it. Making a profit on every machine sold, selling more machines, and selling more games in total means it's not even a question.

The second is "Which console has the most longevity?" (Which translates to "When will they stop making games for my console?") To be honest, I don't know on that one. My initial reaction is to say that the PS3 will eventually win that one, simply because it's got the hardware to compete for another generation yet assuming we don't get some sort of holographic display breakthrough. On the other hand, with an uptake rate of consoles as huge as the Wii.. there's going to be incentive for people to program for the little white box for a long, long time.

Now, if what you want to discuss is which console has the best games? Very different question, and way too subjective to get any real answer. I have a Wii and for me, it's the best console there is. Some of the games coming out for it on Wiiware are some of the most innovative I've ever seen, with the controls allowing skilled developers the opportunity to develop entirely new mechanics and systems. Personally, I think things like World of Goo, Lostwinds, and Cubello certainly do qualify as gaming innovation and, yes, gaming art. You may disagree. But to say there isn't anything good coming out for it is simply exposing either your own ignorance about what's out there or your own arrogance about your personal tastes. Take your pick.

The reason why the WII is "winning" is because they managed to con everyone into thinking that they are actually doing something because they are jumping on a piece of plastic and waving a remote around. When I played a game on the WII I realized that it is actually harder to do something on the WII mote that would have been so much easier on a normal controller. I could just as easily press the A button on a normal controller to make Link swing a sword but instead I have to wave the WII-mote everywhere. I think it is dumb to fall for such a stupid gimmick when even the PS2 has better playing and better looking games then anything that the WII has and most of the ports to the WII are ten times worse than the PS3 or Xbox 360 version but then I remember people also brought Platform shoes with fish in them, pet rocks, iron ons, mood rings, Chia pets, sea-monkeys, furry seat covers and rims for their tires and millions were sold. I would like to add the WII to that list of mostly cheap junk.