As a passionate gamer i've explored just about every genre, from battling an MMO addiction to climbing competitive ladders in FPS and RTS. One thing I've always thought had potential, though, is melee combat games yet i've never found one that pulls it off well.

Maybe its because i've just watched a Kung Fu movie, but I don't understand why there is such a lack of such games. As it stands, melee combat games are bad. You have the choice of either MMORPG, in which time spent and the roll of a dice are the main factors in deciding a win, or simple modifications of first person shooters in which the combat can be easily compared to rock, paper, scissors... without the scissors. There are a couple games that try to pull it off but nothing stands out.

The best melee combat in a game i've seen was Shadow of Rome except that was just singleplayer and its easy to see how it could fall flat on its face in multiplayer. It still leaves me wondering why nobody has really tried to launch a skill based melee game though. A giant chunk of skill was taken out of combat when guns arrived, since then, anybody with a finger could kill somebody. In games it doesn't have to be this way though, you don't have to be sitting prone firing at a spec in the distance when you could be looking at your enemy face-to-face and I agree that it would be tricky to pull it off in a game but wouldn't it be damn fun to play a melee game in which the skill gap was just as big if not more than modern FPS's like Call of Duty and Counter Strike?

I'd also like to know what the best melee based games you have ever played are :)

Apparently you've never been to an arcade.

GenHellspawn:
Apparently you've never been to an arcade.

I suppose thats some cheeky way of telling me about those two dimensional fighter games? Yeah... I think you missed the point here. Thats a different genre to the one I'm meaning.

I know what you mean, but I think a melee game would either be awful, or good, (Note: not great). But with melee, its hard to do any RPG element into it, unless you decide to do it like:

Punch- 3 + 1?
Kick - 4 + 1?
etc - Q +W?

And everything would have to happen up close, which would annoy some people... because who wants to run into an army of enemies, when you can shoot half of them from 40 yards away.

needausername:
I know what you mean, but I think a melee game would either be awful, or good, (Note: not great). But with melee, its hard to do any RPG element into it, unless you decide to do it like:

Punch- 3 + 1?
Kick - 4 + 1?
etc - Q +W?

And everything would have to happen up close, which would annoy some people... because who wants to run into an army of enemies, when you can shoot half of them from 40 yards away.

I was thinking more along the lines of... the direction you move your mouse/analog/wii... thing in while holding down a button does an attack or something. I'm no game designer but I know it could be done these days. I don't think it should be trapped in 2D anymore with present technology.

Melee is hard as its either too simple to work in multiplayer, too fiddly to work in multiplayer, or so reliant on combos that new players will be snapped in two before working out how to punch.

I'd have to go with a RPG/fighting mix you have basic Stab/Block attacks, and then specials that only require you to press a number key.

Solo508:

I was thinking more along the lines of... the direction you move your mouse/analog/wii... thing in while holding down a button does an attack or something. I'm no game designer but I know it could be done these days.

They tried that in Dark Messiah, Age of Chivalry and Mount and Blade. M&B was the only one that worked well but wouldn't hold up in multiplayer.

I agree with this one. I have always wanted a hardcore blood and guts Middle Ages/Medieval combat game. Nothing but combat. Live action combat too, none of this RPG stuff. Combat on the field, up on the siege tower, out on the ramparts, and down into the castle court yards. How many people can they fit into one game online these days? 256? That sounds like a good start for mass battle. Make it hyper realistic too. Losing arms and legs would be cool. Just have players respawn when they die of blood loss. have beadings with realistic blood fountains. Have maces, battle axes, bow/arrow, crossbows, lances, and claymores. It would be utterly ruthless.

Ladies and gentlemen, may I direct your attention to our next items of interest:

Exhibit A

Exhibit B

Sure the game was poorly done and buggy as a termite hill, but it was melee focused, and man the combat was satisfying.

Solo508:

I was thinking more along the lines of... the direction you move your mouse/analog/wii... thing in while holding down a button does an attack or something. I'm no game designer but I know it could be done these days. I don't think it should be trapped in 2D anymore with present technology.

Like the original Street Fighter 2, or Karate Champ?

Koei's Warriors games & Bladestorm are good melee based games, particularly Bladestorm since there is huge variety of different troops & weapons to command, but you may find the combat a bit "automatic".

If you're hankering for melee after watching a Kung-Fu film them Warriors Orochi 2 may float your boat.

EDIT: Also that Conan game (not the MMORPG) was a pretty good melee game.

What is there to explore in a game that involves nothing more than close combat?

galletea:
What is there to explore in a game that involves nothing more than close combat?

Who cares? Tens of thousands of people play the Battlefield games on-line and they re nothing but shooting each other endlessly for hours at a stretch. I just want a combat game like this with no guns and only melee weapons. Oh, and realistic blood and guts.

Theres too much to explore.

These suggestions are good but I was meaning multiplayer combat as refined as Call of Duty or Counter Strike. Having great melee combat is all great against AI like in Messiah but when you have to balence it out to make it multiplayer that actually works - thats when things get tough. I think its about time somebody tried it though. It could be done these days.

galletea:
What is there to explore in a game that involves nothing more than close combat?

Different fighting styles, limb fractures, concussion, if you want to a Matrix style close combat system, there's wire-fu, stances, melee weapons, tournaments. The list goes on.

Watch out for 'The Crossing' being developed by Arkane studios, the people responsible for Dark Messiah of Might and Magic single player (which was excellent, compared to utterly terrible by comparison multiplayer, made by Kuju.)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Crossing_(video_game)

The plan is for it to encompass two universes, one medieval, one modern. Best of both worlds, as they say. It also intends to blend multiplayer and singleplayer into one mode, crossplayer.

While we're here, guns have the same basic skill requirement to kill someone as any medieval weapon. None. The romantic notion that you had to train for 20 years, or 5 minutes, before you could kill someone with a sword is utter shash. Anyone can pick up a simple kitchen knife and murder someone else with it very easily, hence the existance of knife crime. Fair enough, you need to be 'skilled' enough to actually grip the knife, but that's a talent likewise required for effective gun use.
Skill only really comes into it at all when training has been given. In which case, there's plenty of training required to use a gun properly and survive a firefight. But as far as unskilled murdering with guns or meele weapons go, it's all pretty much the same.

Solo508:

I was thinking more along the lines of... the direction you move your mouse/analog/wii... thing in while holding down a button does an attack or something. I'm no game designer but I know it could be done these days. I don't think it should be trapped in 2D anymore with present technology.

Hasn't this already been done, and badly, in Death by Degrees, Rise to Honor, Blade, Grabbed by the Ghoulies, etc.,etc.? This also sounds reminiscent of the Fight Night games, which had some success. Anyway, any multiplayer match that I can imagine that is based entirely around melee would devolve into back-and-forth slap fights if the players are bad or endless strings of reversals and parries if the players are good.

ZakuII:

While we're here, guns have the same basic skill requirement to kill someone as any medieval weapon. None. The romantic notion that you had to train for 20 years, or 5 minutes, before you could kill someone with a sword is utter shash. Anyone can pick up a simple kitchen knife and murder someone else with it very easily, hence the existence of knife crime. Fair enough, you need to be 'skilled' enough to actually grip the knife, but that's a talent likewise required for effective gun use.

While this is true of two or more people who are untrained, a trained swordsman would shred a novice like cheese in any sword fight. Highly trained knights and samurai were the special forces of their time. They common public was simply no match in combat against these men. It is like trying to say that any man who can swing his fists can get in the ring with a veteran MMA fighter like Houston Alexander, Chuck Liddell or Brock Lesnar. The simple fact is that the average guy would get devastated in ways that are embarrassing to think about.

The Crossing sounds interesting, but it misses my point completely. I want to NO guns. As in none. Strictly melee combat with crossbows and other old school missile weapons. Add in some siege weapons for castle defense, some lances for Calvary, and it is a battle

Jade Empire was almost all Melee (there were a couple magic styles that were ranged and a single gun style, but most people I talked to didn't use them that much, not saying they're useless, it was just a lot funner going melee)

Condemned/Condemned 2 are largely melee FPS's. There were guns, but you never get many bullets.

Onimusha is like Resident Evil with swords instead of guns, so I think that counts as melee.

Then there are the legions is Beat 'em Up games, from Double Dragon to Golden Axe, which are all melee.

I really don't know how you can think Melee is underrepresented in games. Those games all just came off the top of my head, I'm sure if I thought about it longer I could come up with more

My other condition for a Melee game is also NO MAGIC OF ANY KIND. Healing is done the old school way with leeches, bandages, and herbs.

galletea:
What is there to explore in a game that involves nothing more than close combat?

Ever seen that video Yahtzee did about Painkiller? lol

Edit: I like the idea of wandering around dynasty warriors stylee, then entering a combat mode kind of thing: choose your fighting style with L1/R1, attack with left and right stick respective to your arms (left controls left arm and right controls ride sword arm - simple), combo system involving blast radius for fun and stabs to enter a small 1 on 1 mode almost for a brief second of insta-kill, you build up glory from your kills - the more glory you have the more people will teach you techs, you get items from killing and that allows you to build armour and weapons in a forge, with a fun little mini-game
This should be the visi-goths conquering the romans in an alternate storyline kind of thing

What about Savage and Savage 2?

axia777:
My other condition for a Melee game is also NO MAGIC OF ANY KIND. Healing is done the old school way with leeches, bandages, and herbs.

you have fun with that, I'll be over here playing games that are actually fun to play :)

Altorin:

axia777:
My other condition for a Melee game is also NO MAGIC OF ANY KIND. Healing is done the old school way with leeches, bandages, and herbs.

you have fun with that, I'll be over here playing games that are actually fun to play :)

Re-spawning would take care of the death issue. And if you need "magic" in a melee game to have fun you must not ever play COD4 or any of the Battlefield games on-line. My idea is like COD4, which is VERY realistic, but with no guns.

axia777:

Altorin:

axia777:
My other condition for a Melee game is also NO MAGIC OF ANY KIND. Healing is done the old school way with leeches, bandages, and herbs.

you have fun with that, I'll be over here playing games that are actually fun to play :)

Re-spawning would take care of the death issue. And if you need "magic" in a melee game to have fun you must not ever play COD4 or any of the Battlefield games on-line. My idea is like COD4, which is VERY realistic, but with no guns.

I read it wrong. I was just imagining a game with no ability to heal.. nvm. I'm out ;P+

axia777:

Altorin:

axia777:
My other condition for a Melee game is also NO MAGIC OF ANY KIND. Healing is done the old school way with leeches, bandages, and herbs.

you have fun with that, I'll be over here playing games that are actually fun to play :)

Re-spawning would take care of the death issue. And if you need "magic" in a melee game to have fun you must not ever play COD4 or any of the Battlefield games on-line. My idea is like COD4, which is VERY realistic, but with no guns.

COD4 isn't a melee game - it's FPS

Solo508:
It still leaves me wondering why nobody has really tried to launch a skill based melee game though.

Can't believe I am the first one to say this but: Mount & Blade.
That game has the hands down best skill based combat system of any game out there.

That said however, I don't know how well it would stand up to multipayer, my guess is not very well as the combat is a bit repetitive, but is is still the best melee combat game.

Pirates, Vikings, and Knights.

I used to play this game all the time. It's a Half-Life 2 mod, and it's a lot of fun. The combat is based around parrying your opponent and a skilled player will tear through a novice.

Technically it has guns (pirates have pistols and blunderbusses), but they're really inaccurate and you can't reload very quickly. Other than that, there are bows and throwing axes, but the focus is mostly on melee.

Fruhstuck:

axia777:

Altorin:

axia777:
My other condition for a Melee game is also NO MAGIC OF ANY KIND. Healing is done the old school way with leeches, bandages, and herbs.

you have fun with that, I'll be over here playing games that are actually fun to play :)

Re-spawning would take care of the death issue. And if you need "magic" in a melee game to have fun you must not ever play COD4 or any of the Battlefield games on-line. My idea is like COD4, which is VERY realistic, but with no guns.

COD4 isn't a melee game - it's FPS

You miss my point. I know COD4 is a FPS. But like I said, it is very realistic and hardcore. Most times getting shot in COD4 is very, very bad. Sort of like getting slashed with a claymore realistically would be very, very bad. See?

If there is a problem with melee games, it is interface.

Consider an FPS:
Point and shoot almost intuitively becomes point and click.

The game has simplified actual gun combat into easy to master, but still realistic controls. For example: walking is smooth and we never trip over stuff. Jumping is easy and requires no build up. These simplifications make for a fun experience without completely sacrificing realism. A melee game has much more to consider as to what is sacrifices for the sake of fun and simplification.

Also, in 3D is is difficult to judge depth effectively. In half-life we all ran screaming toward something madly swinging the crowbar until it is dead instead of waiting until it is just within range to smack it. Even in half-life two I have walked over to something, picked it up and sent everything on the shelf flying because I was standing too close and am now swinging the object wildly.

2D fighting games are great melee. (Heck I even like house-mate removal combat in the sims) But these experiences are far remove from actual fighting.

I imagine that it will take something like a force feedback Wii / DDR pad combination before melee feels truly satisfying.

axia777:

Fruhstuck:

axia777:

Altorin:

axia777:
My other condition for a Melee game is also NO MAGIC OF ANY KIND. Healing is done the old school way with leeches, bandages, and herbs.

you have fun with that, I'll be over here playing games that are actually fun to play :)

Re-spawning would take care of the death issue. And if you need "magic" in a melee game to have fun you must not ever play COD4 or any of the Battlefield games on-line. My idea is like COD4, which is VERY realistic, but with no guns.

COD4 isn't a melee game - it's FPS

You miss my point. I know COD4 is a FPS. But like I said, it is very realistic and hardcore. Most times getting shot in COD4 is very, very bad. Sort of like getting slashed with a claymore realistically would be very, very bad. See?

I do apologise - gradual health regeneration'd be nice and "final attack" thing would be nice for me once you've taken so muh damage (rage meter maybe) and if you get a slashed arm those attacks are disabled, slashed at the legs you go slower, yaddah, yaddah, yaddah

I'm not sure if this is what you're looking for, but take a look at Toribash (www.toribash.com)

It's a fighting game, but not in real time. You are able to take as much time as you want to move each body part.

I shouldn't say too much about it though, since I've never actually played it. I only heard about it recently.

Condemned and Condemned 2 have the most brutal melee combat I've ever experienced. It's almost a shame when you get access to guns. If you love your melee, they are well worth checking out.

MGS Online has pvp melee elements in a shooter. You can choke, punch, deflect, throw to the ground, lots of stuff. It's not the focus of the game, but the melee that exists is larger than the typical, "here's a chainsaw analog, go nuts". you can even play it like a full FPS instead of the TPS for which the series is known. Also, the classic (unfortunately single player) FPS dungeon crawlers Ultima Underworld I and II had FPS melee, it you wanted to play a tank.

I think I see the gap you are trying to outline. Full physical pvp FPS hth combat is an interesting proposal. It might be a refreshing departure from headshot fests.

Fruhstuck:

axia777:

Fruhstuck:

axia777:

Altorin:

axia777:
My other condition for a Melee game is also NO MAGIC OF ANY KIND. Healing is done the old school way with leeches, bandages, and herbs.

you have fun with that, I'll be over here playing games that are actually fun to play :)

Re-spawning would take care of the death issue. And if you need "magic" in a melee game to have fun you must not ever play COD4 or any of the Battlefield games on-line. My idea is like COD4, which is VERY realistic, but with no guns.

COD4 isn't a melee game - it's FPS

You miss my point. I know COD4 is a FPS. But like I said, it is very realistic and hardcore. Most times getting shot in COD4 is very, very bad. Sort of like getting slashed with a claymore realistically would be very, very bad. See?

I do apologise - gradual health regeneration'd be nice and "final attack" thing would be nice for me once you've taken so much damage (rage meter maybe) and if you get a slashed arm those attacks are disabled, slashed at the legs you go slower, yaddah, yaddah, yaddah

No need to apologize my man, we are just discussing an idea. And yes, gradual heath regen would be cool. The rage meter is a good idea too. Especially for Viking type fighters. Going berserk and all that.

axia777:

Fruhstuck:

axia777:

Fruhstuck:

axia777:

Altorin:

axia777:
My other condition for a Melee game is also NO MAGIC OF ANY KIND. Healing is done the old school way with leeches, bandages, and herbs.

you have fun with that, I'll be over here playing games that are actually fun to play :)

Re-spawning would take care of the death issue. And if you need "magic" in a melee game to have fun you must not ever play COD4 or any of the Battlefield games on-line. My idea is like COD4, which is VERY realistic, but with no guns.

COD4 isn't a melee game - it's FPS

You miss my point. I know COD4 is a FPS. But like I said, it is very realistic and hardcore. Most times getting shot in COD4 is very, very bad. Sort of like getting slashed with a claymore realistically would be very, very bad. See?

I do apologise - gradual health regeneration'd be nice and "final attack" thing would be nice for me once you've taken so much damage (rage meter maybe) and if you get a slashed arm those attacks are disabled, slashed at the legs you go slower, yaddah, yaddah, yaddah

No need to apologize my man, we are just discussing an idea. And yes, gradual heath regen would be cool. The rage meter is a good idea too. Especially for Viking type fighters. Going berserk and all that.

*Posh british accent* I hear that suggestion good sah! and heartily suggest that this could even show DMC4 a thing or too about "Stylish" combat

Aaii