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Infamous Scribbler  Posts: 613 Joined: 18 Jul 2008     | |
BANNED  Posts: 12958 Joined: 30 Jan 2008    |
We're not talking about the N64, we're talking about Nintendo before this casual gaming explosion. Thus, we have to talk about their Gamecube lineup. User was banned for: Poll: What is your opinion on the Metal Gear Solid storylines?. (Permanent) |
BANNED Posts: 12958 Joined: 30 Jan 2008 |
Whats wrong with Dragonforce? For the experience they try to elicit, they do a masterful job. User was banned for: Poll: What is your opinion on the Metal Gear Solid storylines?. (Permanent) |
BANNED  Posts: 4378 Joined: 21 Aug 2008   | So do many of the hip hop and popular music artists so often disparaged around here. User was banned for: Microsoft and the World Domination of Gaming&Communication. (Permanent) |
BANNED Posts: 12958 Joined: 30 Jan 2008 |
Yeah, but they don't put effort into it. User was banned for: Poll: What is your opinion on the Metal Gear Solid storylines?. (Permanent) |
BANNED Posts: 4378 Joined: 21 Aug 2008 |
Quite a few do. Unfortunately, the same can't be said about Dragonforce. User was banned for: Microsoft and the World Domination of Gaming&Communication. (Permanent) |
Press Junketeer  Posts: 357 Joined: 10 Sep 2008    | i get pissed off if their the targeted audience, but if its accesible im okay with it, like fable 2 |
On the Record  Posts: 5173 Joined: 3 Mar 2008     | With the fear that I'll piss someone off, I'll say that I'm a casual gamer myself. That's my opinion and theory. |
Gone Gonzo  Posts: 2663 Joined: 20 Jul 2008     | The gold mine of the casual market turns more developers towards it so 'hardcore' games become simpler and require which effort which can ruin some games (eg. Spore). |
Gone Gonzo  Posts: 1850 Joined: 31 Oct 2007    |
Pure_Pwnage is fictional. I don't get your point. I also don't agree that 'hardcore gamers' need to let games dominate their life. But, I suppose that's just a matter of semantics. |
On the Record Posts: 5173 Joined: 3 Mar 2008 |
It's a mockumentary, but it does make a point. And I don't think they need games to dominate their life. They let them. |
Gone Gonzo  Posts: 4639 Joined: 15 Jun 2008   | So, what is a "hardcore gamer" because I've seen / heard a lot of different people discuss it. Some random guy who kept going on about playing me on GeOW 2 (and then refused...he actually sent me about 5 messages explaining how badly he was going to beat me and then decided against playing me...) claims he is "hardcore", and that hardcore has nothing to do with the games you play. He claims that constantly playing, posting on sites like the Escapist, and talking about games is what a Hardcore gamer is. I, on the other hand, have no idea what a "hardcore" gamer is. I play the games I own on the hardest difficulty I can - I win (come top) in most (about 90%) of matches I play on line. Yet I am classed as a "casual" because I only play for a few hours... I used to easily beat people (COD 4 is a good example as it shows play-time) with double my play-time / prestige, yet was called a "noob", due to my rank. So, WHAT THE HECK IS A HARDCORE GAMER, if its not about skill... If its about the games I play, I'm sorry if I prefer mainstream games like Gears of War, Fable, Left 4 dead - to a flight simulator or a JRPG, but arn't games supposed to be fun? |
BANNED  Posts: 3486 Joined: 25 Aug 2008   | I always heard that "casual" gamers were the ones who would just play Wii Sports, or buy only Wii Fit and just play a bit of them. The "hardcore" crowd weren't the freaks who would spend days perfecting every single last possible move/attack strategy, they were the ones who bought the really good but lesser known games. For instance, Battalion Wars 2? A "hardcore" game. Am I wrong? If so then my deluded outlook on gaming may change just a tad. User was banned for: The Second Annual Escapist Election: Part 1: Presidential Primaries. (Permanent) |
Gone Gonzo Posts: 4639 Joined: 15 Jun 2008 |
I saw the first episode and I mean c'mon, you honestly beleive anyone would act like that. Its fictional, yes its meant to insult people who take games way to seriously, but it does not display any social effects of "hardcore" gaming. I actually got a bit worried when I could understand all the "gaming" words they threw in there. |
Gone Gonzo  Posts: 1045 Joined: 31 Oct 2008    | Nothing wrong with casual games, Peggle anyone? |
Muckraker  Posts: 288 Joined: 2 Sep 2008    | I just hate casual gamers because they are taking the developers away from us real gamers (and no i dont mean that as in a nerd, i mean people that like games with story,guns and stuff) Me and my brother both enjoy mainstream games alot e.g Halo,Rainbow 6 Vegas and such but every now and then a casual game is quite nice for a change (Viva Pinata is my favourites) Seriously though, how many hardcore games have come out on the DS/Wii recently(past 18 months) (not too many) - now how many casual games - alot! Sure it is fun to look after a garden of paper creatures but then again its even more fun to shot some guy in the nuts and then watch him collapse slowly. Anyway, theres nothing wrong with casual gamers, its the developers that forget us and thus we should be ranting at them |
Anonymous Source  Posts: 3 Joined: 23 Nov 2008   | Casual gamers are not, and never have been, the problem... The developers are not to blame, either. The accountants and executives of the video game companies are. The bottom line is that EVERYTHING in the video games industry comes down to money. Game developers, for the most part, are like artists. They adore what they do, they strive to be the best, and they vainly hope to one day be remembered in the Pantheon of Gaming (whatever the hell that may be). In keeping with the whole Renaissance theme here... Leonardo da Developer is inspired one drunken evening to start coding a new masterpiece, Beginning Epic Adventure 42. He is well aware the last version of this game was panned by critics and dedicated gamers alike for being too 'simplistic', but that it sold more copies than any other BEA game before it. Leonardo is torn... should he continue doing a more casual version of the beloved franchise, alienating the more devoted following while drawing a new audience and higher profits, or should he stick to his artistic soul and create the game he wants to create, profits be damned? *end silly analogy* That's the issue we face here. I'm no longer a hardcore gamer (Raided hardcore in WoW until late 2006), so I fall into the casual variety now. Real life is epic fail like that. The best case scenario would be for all games to have a version of a difficuly setting (Hardcore, Expert, Heroic, whatever) to tailor to the individual gamers needs. We all know that's not going to happen. Once again, it all comes down to how much money the companies can put into their pockets. |
Gone Gonzo Posts: 4639 Joined: 15 Jun 2008 |
I disagree. Lets look at the games you noted : Halo 3 and RSV2. Both of these games are mainstream - designed to appeal to all players- Casual or not. Viva Piñata is a [b]family[b] game, designed by Rare - not the same thing at all. Call of Duty 4 is another example, it CAN be played with "skill", when you agree to only use certain perks, snipers only etc... online it is still designed for all types of players. Its not the developers faults at all, if they made a fiendishly difficult challenge then players would complain. Although I agree to a certain extent - games on "insane, legendary, veteran" are far to easy. |
Muckraker  Posts: 294 Joined: 19 Jul 2008  |
Yeah, you pretty much summed it up for me. I don't have a problem with 'casual' gamers, but what their presence does to competitive gaming makes me unhappy. Call of Duty is a perfect example of this. It is generally agreed that, as far as skill goes, IW lowered the bar for CoD4. Most casual players instantly took a liking to CoD4 because the game came easy to them. In my opinion this statement is not controversial in the least. CoD4 is a fun game to play - make no mistake about that. However, the amount of practice time required to gain or maintain adequate skill levels to play Modern Warfare is far lower than that required in CoD2, CoD1 or CS (in order of easy to hard). - Jock Yitch, BASHandSlash.com |
Gone Gonzo Posts: 1850 Joined: 31 Oct 2007 |
No, it doesn't. It's a work of fiction. They're exaggerated to make it funny.
Are you trying to be dense? Who is this "they?" Hardcore gamers? Then maybe we need to define what a hardcore gamer is. I'd consider myself one, yet, video games don't even come close to dominating my life. I think you're getting one specific stereotype looping in your head and for some reason you were under the assumption that that was what a "hardcore gamer" was. Oh, that's right, you're getting your stereotype from a fictional T.V. show. I forgot. No wonder we're not on the same page. |
Muckraker Posts: 288 Joined: 2 Sep 2008 |
unless of course we are talking about RSV2's realistic mode, it takes like one-two shots to down you; yeah that is realistic but maybe a little too realistic for a game lol also what the hell is a mockumentary? |
On the Record Posts: 5173 Joined: 3 Mar 2008 |
The words 'Obvious Troll is Obvious' are running through my head as I type this. I did warn you before I made my statement. I also feel like I'm running an English class. Anyways, you're completely missing my point, and hitting the guy behind it. I wish to state that Jeremy, while a caricature on a comedic show, does retain... undesirable qualities held by most gamers. In the non-funny bits, if you take a look at it, it focuses on the fact that he struggles to cope in the real world, without a job, and the fact that everyone (except for his fans, it seems) hates him. True, he's fictional, and I've touched on this before, but there's a message you should look out for.
A fictional documentary. Not comedic, as some people seem to think. |
Beat Writer  Posts: 191 Joined: 10 Sep 2008   | Go moderation! |
Gone Gonzo Posts: 1850 Joined: 31 Oct 2007 |
Good for you. I couldn't care less what else you have to say after calling me a troll. You're obviously not paying attention.
No you don't. /done |
On the Record Posts: 5173 Joined: 3 Mar 2008 |
You don't seem to be paying any attention either, so what you're saying is quite hypocritical. I'm not wanting to start a flame war, unlike yourself, so I'm going to take my leave. |
On the Record  Posts: 5014 Joined: 28 Feb 2008 | One of my professors, who is in love with all things Apple, was showing me all sorts of apps on his Iphone. He just didn't understand. He's actually an art professor, but he doesn't view video games as anything but, well... a game. Something to eat up time and bring simple amusement. In essence, casual gamers represent the American mentality. Why sell fine cuisine when you can make more money off of cookie-cutter burgers? |
Copy Clerk Posts: 107 Joined: 3 Oct 2007   |
I always considered hardcore gamers people who spent so much time with games as to be socially impacted, likely in a negative way. Casual gamers are just people that play games in their free time. I would be a casual gamer. It has nothing to do with the type of games people like, or the difficulty included. I like most games. If I had to choose favorites types, I'd say I prefer open world RPGs, like the Ultima games, shmups, like ESP Galuda (is awesome), and racing games, like Forza, Rallisport, and the GT series. Certain sports games and turn-based strategy games also make me very happy. I just don't have a lot of time to play games, so I game casually. |
Gone Gonzo Posts: 1850 Joined: 31 Oct 2007 |
Bob Loblaw. |
On the Record Posts: 5173 Joined: 3 Mar 2008 |
Damn, you're more immature than I thought. |
Gone Gonzo Posts: 1850 Joined: 31 Oct 2007 |
Yeah man. That's what it is. I'm so immature. I'm also a troll, a flame war starter, a baby eater, and a scumbag. Look, I don't know what you're not getting. You called me a troll and I said I'm done with you. Then you post some more crap about how I'm starting a flame war (although how you got that out of "I'm done with you", I have no idea). So, what am I supposed to do? Have a conversation with you? Bob Loblaw sounded much more interesting, applicable, entertaining and much less asinine then anything else at the moment. So sue me. |
On the Record Posts: 5173 Joined: 3 Mar 2008 |
Yeah, but honestly, you did say "I'm done with you" and then went on with some pointless drivel in order try and get me to flame back. The sad thing is, it seems to be working. Really, you've reached the height of hypocrisy now. Just letting you know. |
Gone Gonzo Posts: 1850 Joined: 31 Oct 2007 |
Ok. I'm not even reading anymore. I'm sure it's more "you're a bad bad man". And hell, who am I to argue with that? |
Gone Gonzo  Posts: 2262 Joined: 24 Nov 2008  | Responding to the topic of this thread; 'Hardcore' gamers dislike 'casual' gamers because of elitism and scapegoatisum. In a display of mass nostalgia, as the original gaming community gets older they see new games as worst and worst because the rose colored glasses that they had as kids have gone away. Really they're just more apt now to notice the flaws in games, where as before they overlooked them. As something that is associated with their childhood and is a pure and untarnished memory of happy times, games, slowly comes into realistic focus, as the flawed thing that it really was, it causes them an internal conflict of ideal and real. This pollutes what was and causes anger at these new games for ruining games as a way of avoid the fact that they now know that the games they had weren't as ideal, as they thought they were. (Sorry if my argument here is a little sketchy, this is a bit of psychological theory I'm working on). Additionally 'hardcore' gamers have generally been into games for longer and they believe that that gives them seniority and priority. In actually, their money is just as green as a casual gamers' and at their heart games are just a way to make money (except the independent ones). Also, people tend to fear the new and 'casual' gamers are still new and thus scary. This caustic mix of various hate is vented on 'casual' gamers. In a way the old 'hardcore' gamers are like old men yelling at the young whippersnappers (casual gamers) to get off their collective lawns (games). I think that we have forgotten that in fact we are all playing games. If you've forgot what that means, look it up in a dictionary. It's meant for people to have fun, whatever there situation, 'casual' or 'hardcore'. In the end you get to play a game and a company gets to profit by selling you the game. Who spent more time playing them is not important. Of course, nothing that I say matters because this thread is based on an emotional argument so no one will ever change their opinion. Also, this thread needs a comprehensive definition of 'hardcore' and 'casual' to better define the argument. Now that I've said my two cents, good day. I must run for cover from the impending fallout now. |
Pulitzer Laureate  Posts: 772 Joined: 25 Jun 2008  | People don't like Casual gamers because they feel the market is moving more towards them, simple as that. Gamers are no longer the people looking for something to do in between work, sewing your Renfair outfit and waiting for your next D&D game. See it all started when the frat boys and other people who try to profess they are 'hardcore gamers' came into play. They started eating up really bad FPS games like Halo and demanded games where they can pick it up and get that same rush of 'oh my god i'm better than everyone at this game' that they get on the football field. This was when Complex Mechanics started to die out in video games because it became obvious that the market of beer chugging overcompetitive manchildren was just as big if not bigger than those of us who spent our years faithfully looking up game reviews in nintendo power from the age of seven and honing our skills on the NES before the SNES was even out, if not earlier systems. Sadly these people not only destroyed some of the best aspects of gaming, but they seemed to have this mentality that gaming was something 'manly' to be undertaken (for lack of a better term, trying hard not to be sexist). They seem to feel that gaming is theirs because all the geeks and nerds who did it before them don't matter, or perhaps they don't realize that they are the reason we went from baulders gate and revenant to games like WoW. Regardless this segment of the gaming community has mixed enough with the 'bitter oldschool' segment that was already upset at what the last influx of people had taken away and with the 'average gamer' segment that encompasses a wide array of people who escape definition and all of them see a trend that again threatens to shove gaming down the drain thanks to the wonders of a capitalist system. Casual gamers represent more time and effort devoted to people who just want a quick fix of gaming. maybe a mini game or maybe a shorter version of a classic game. These people mix a somewhat justified fear of another market trend shift with a rather absurd fear of playing games that are fun but look like kids could play them. The wii is a perfect example of this with many 'hardcore' fanatics viewing it as a gimmic simply because it does not like the idea of doing something other than the button pressing they are used to. A few will talk about 1:1 ratio as if it really means something and try to sound like they have some more intellectual gripe with the system but in the end these people simply feel that because the Wii is not geared specifically towards teenagers who have gotten used to thinking of nudity and blood splatter as 'mature' that it is not something for them. This fear is sadly not totally unjustified though as game developers are often more likely to make whatever they can sell in bulk rather than funding artistic projects. Even those projects that do get any focus for being artistically driven such as Oblivion or Fallout 3 tend to be quashed by the new 'hardcore' set who look back on the old days with rose tinted glasses. This only serves to perpetuate the cycle as the industry loses more interest every day in producing games for the sake of the art itself. So to sum it up Casual gamers are seen as a threat to the current incarnation of gamers who consider themselves 'hardcore' for whatever the term is worth as well as to the notion of games as art. This fear is both a major cause and symptom of games being watered down to expand the market reach. Its another repetition of the cycle that made games get worse last time and in the minds of many creates a somewhat justified fear that games will again become watered down quick fixes for Dopamine by granting an effortless 'ah hah' moment. |
Gone Gonzo Posts: 2262 Joined: 24 Nov 2008 |
Here here! nicely put. Although I still believe that there is enough diversity and competition in the market to avoid a total collapse of the system. Although the hayday of the shooter will have to come to an end before I personally feel better. |
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They shouldn't. I agree with you. Who said I didn't? Aphex Twin is 100x more talented than DJ Hixxy but doesn't get the kind of recognition he deserves.