I believe that the type of game Valve had in mind wasn't really a survival horror. Well it is in a way, but not in the Silent Hill sense. Its more of a game to just own Zombies I think. I mean those survivors can take quite a beating, and I don't see it as too realistic.

However, this is because the game isn't too much of a survival horror, and more of a squad based shooter. A game that your thinking about would be more like Condemned I think, but there aren't that many games that don't use shock. Shock is a good way to scare, and I think its appropriate. If it's anything, I really really get scared at the times I see a witch or if a tank has taken out three of my teammates, and that's not really a shocker moment, so there's a good example of impending doom horror...

kind of like a zombie apocolypse survival horror RPG?

I think thats a great idea for a horror game. More stealthy trying to survive kind of thing right? I like it and if it was long and made right, explorable world, I would play it for sure. I think its a great idea.

Try Urban Dead. It's not exactly what your thinking of, but its similar in a way. Free online text based game, Ive got a lvl 35 character in it!

Pie:

Hunde Des Krieg:
kind of like a zombie apocolypse survival horror RPG?

Yeah, none of this shoot your way out of situations crap. You'd have to take a careful approach, and it could be made into a 4 player game, like Left 4 Dead, except completely different.

I haven't played left 4 dead, but what i've seen is enough to tell me that you start with guns, you shoot people and blow them up and you make your way through "levels".

with the game i'd like to have made, it'd be like GTA, but... zombies.

like dead rising but not stuck in the mall, with like a stats management system?

I think he means something like that, but more dangerous. As you use weapons you gain knowledge about them, but in the beginning your best bet is to hide and avoid conflict, and the horror he wants the game to express is that of running from an opponent much more dangerous and numerous then you are.

Well, I would have thought that guns aren't that hard to come by, and most relatively low powered guns aren't all the hard to operate, especially at close range. I live in Australia, which has much tighter gun control than the U.S, and I could still quite easily loot myself some series firepower if I needed too. .22's and semi-automatic pistols would be far more effective if you're travelling light than assault rifles anyway. I'm not sure that being armed in a zombie apocalypse is that far fetched.

Dys:
Well, I would have thought that guns aren't that hard to come by, and most relatively low powered guns aren't all the hard to operate, especially at close range. I live in Australia, which has much tighter gun control than the U.S, and I could still quite easily loot myself some series firepower if I needed too.

You make a great point, but I think the point the forum creator was trying to make was the sense of terror. Just because you have a gun doesn't protect you from zombies. If you fire off one shot, it will attract more of them, and sooner or later your going to be out of ammo. And I would have no idea what it feels like, but hitting a zombie close range with melee would scare the shit out of me.

Give that game a good random map generator that generates a new city when you click new game so that no two cities are alike, ever and I think you've got a winning formula.

I really wish you haden't stopped when you did...I was getting into it and was really enjoying reading.

Without going into an overlong - Yes. I would love to see a game like this. That feeling of uncertainty and fear is what is missing in games nowadays.

yo you should keep an eye on dead island. it's not set in a city, but they intend to limit the supply of guns and ammo and focus on melee. the site is under construction right now but it looks like it could be pretty good

As Turtleboy said, I think Valve was thinking "know what? Let's just make a game where you kill the hell out of massive hordes of zombies." They weren't going for horror, but co-op squad-based fun.

Anyway, on to your idea. Have you ever read World War Z? It's basically the scenario you're describing. A realistic zombie apocalypse, given a very specific zombie mythos developed in The Zombie Survival Guide. You've got a solid gameplay concept there; combine that with the plot of World War Z, and I think you have a winner there.

Have you played "Siren" for the PS2?

Shaun of the Dead game? eh eh.

Turtleboy1017:
I believe that the type of game Valve had in mind wasn't really a survival horror. Well it is in a way, but not in the Silent Hill sense. Its more of a game to just own Zombies I think. I mean those survivors can take quite a beating, and I don't see it as too realistic.

However, this is because the game isn't too much of a survival horror, and more of a squad based shooter. A game that your thinking about would be more like Condemned I think, but there aren't that many games that don't use shock. Shock is a good way to scare, and I think its appropriate. If it's anything, I really really get scared at the times I see a witch or if a tank has taken out three of my teammates, and that's not really a shocker moment, so there's a good example of impending doom horror...

You obviously haven't played Left 4 Dead on expert ;)

Clean and simple zombie games aren't supposed to be realistic. In my mind zombies are the ultimate punching bag, and their sole purpose is to be hack and slashed, which is why zombie games turn me off in the first place. Their are other tatical survivor things that could happen. Nuclear fallout survival or even alien...I am just going to stop here, those ideas sound really cliché but they have all been done to extremes.

A zombie survival game could happen, but the "zombies are a replenishable resource that are ment to blown to itty-bitty-bits" stereotype needs to end first

But on the Silent Hill note, are they zombies or just like weird undead things?

Oh, and on a side note - the 'Left 4 Dead' zombies aren't really zombies. They are infected-still-living people.

EDIT:
Out of interest, is it me or has zombie fiction suddenly become widespread again for no apparent reason?

Aw hell, I'd play it. There should also be an opportunity to get infected, at which point you'll have a limited amount of time to get some anti-biotics before you die.

Huh. I totally misread this. I thought you were just pushing for more realism. But the idea of a regular everyman fighting his way to survive seems interesting. But I think the slow shambling zombies would get boring. The point of zombies is to be scary. They're monsters that appeal to the unconcious fear of death people have. I do think the basic idea would be interesting, but the idea of slow, shambling zombies with no scary and exhilirating bits would get old fast.

xitel:
Huh. I totally misread this. I thought you were just pushing for more realism. But the idea of a regular everyman fighting his way to survive seems interesting. But I think the slow shambling zombies would get boring. The point of zombies is to be scary. They're monsters that appeal to the unconcious fear of death people have. I do think the basic idea would be interesting, but the idea of slow, shambling zombies with no scary and exhilirating bits would get old fast.

Possibly. It would be interesting to see one where you can have zombies start to follow you, and you have to try and lose them before they work out where your safe-room is, else you have to crawl out the window or some such.

I could see a mod a game doing this - have an end goal of getting a radio working to summon an evac or some such.

Doug:

xitel:
Huh. I totally misread this. I thought you were just pushing for more realism. But the idea of a regular everyman fighting his way to survive seems interesting. But I think the slow shambling zombies would get boring. The point of zombies is to be scary. They're monsters that appeal to the unconcious fear of death people have. I do think the basic idea would be interesting, but the idea of slow, shambling zombies with no scary and exhilirating bits would get old fast.

Possibly. It would be interesting to see one where you can have zombies start to follow you, and you have to try and lose them before they work out where your safe-room is, else you have to crawl out the window or some such.

I could see a mod a game doing this - have an end goal of getting a radio working to summon an evac or some such.

The idea of having intelligent zombies that you have to hide from seems extremely interesting. I've also always wondered how they determine which of them are zombies and which are alive. Like, why don't they ever attack each other?

Wasn't there a Japanese Horror game that sold like crap in the UK/States with a kind of similar design? There was no combat, but it was more about avoiding the zombies and getting away from them. I'm fairly sure a camera was involved somehow...Damn...I wish I could remember the name of that...

EDIT:
Also, has anybody played the Source mod "Zombie Panic Source"? It's a lot closer to what you're saying than Left 4 Dead. Ammunition is *scarce* and although there are shotguns and rifles, they really don't hold up well against holding of more than 2 zombies. The game pushes good communication/ cooperation skills between the survivors to make it through alive. And there is melee combat with almost asinine weapons (for instance: a keyboard and a frying pan). But 1 on 1, a human can still take a zombie. Definitely a good alternative to the more far fetched Left 4 Dead. (although I've played lots of L4D lately, it's awesome).

xitel:

The idea of having intelligent zombies that you have to hide from seems extremely interesting. I've also always wondered how they determine which of them are zombies and which are alive. Like, why don't they ever attack each other?

Shaun of the dead.

The ones that shuffle a lot and moan are the real zombies. :D

RockKillsKid:
Wasn't there a Japanese Horror game that sold like crap in the UK/States with a kind of similar design? There was no combat, but it was more about avoiding the zombies and getting away from them. I'm fairly sure a camera was involved somehow...Damn...I wish I could remember the name of that...

You're probably thinking of Siren. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siren Quasi-nonlinear story with a big focus on stealth and looking through the eyes of the enemy.

well it sounds like a good idea...

so essentially a game based of max brook's zombie survival guide ive been toying with that idea ever since i read that book you should check up on something called dead island im not sure (i havent read anything on it for awhile) but i think this might be what your talking bout

THIS is why the Escapist needs to make a publishing deal with Valve, or it's own studio. I'm sure there must be at least ONE person skilled in each necessary field on the forums.

Hell, I'm gonna go start a thread on that.

As a game Left 4 Dead was always supposed to be an interactive iteration of the standard zombie gorefest movie. That means that it's bound to be mostly for show and indeed some of the moments are really cool and fun.

I'm not denying that your idea will work, if anything I'd love to make it if I knew how (or at least do the soundtrack for it, which I do know about) but there will always be room for fun zombie games. Unfortunatly I can't name more than three zombie games and one of them doesn't count as its firstly a mod and secondly everything in it is multiplayer.

Left 4 Dead, Dead Rising, and Zombie Panic Source.

But as someone said, Left 4 Dead doesn't really have zombies, just mutations.

Sounds like Condemned.

I think the idea has a lot of potential and not too difficult if you choose the correct setting. If do it like an RPG and choose a type of character you could start out in multiple settings with multiple different objectives.

Say you choose a single office worker in the city and you wake up after the beginning movie of office work and news in your apartment to a newcast which tells you where to go and to be careful. So you start off with a backpack, a melee weapon (or pistol), and whatever else you can carry in a Deux Ex style system. Then you have to sneak out of your apartment building and some of the apartments in the building are locked, some are open, some show signs of struggle/blood so you get your nerves worked up and you get to search for more ammo, weapons, food, etc. Maybe your first encounter is here but probably not and so the game goes.

Then you could have another scenario where you are a suburban office worker and your family is on vacation so you are alone in your house and you wake up and see the same news report. Now you have to get out of your house and you can start searching for the safe zone, sneaking into other houses to look for supplies and encounter undead residents or living crazies who have barricaded themselves inside.

Hell, you could including vehicles so you have to choose between attracting attention through driving or walking and being more stealthy. That way you can move more quickly if you feel up to taking on extra zombies or more slowly if you want to take them on one at a time or avoid them altogether.

I don't think it's a game which is completely outside of the realm of possibility and it could even become a 3D version of Urban Dead where the game is multiplayer and people set up safe houses, you have to find a safe place to rest when you're offline, hell, people would probably even set up a system of trade to get food, weapons, ammo, protection, etc. Maybe the zombies are infinitely respawning or controlled by other players, I don't know, but an MMOFPS zombie game in this form would really interest me.

One thing I've always disliked about zombie games is how the protagonist is seemingly immune to the zombie virus. Everyone else gets a tiny nick and they're screwed, but the protagonist can be bitten hundreds of times as long as his health holds out.

A possible solution is having it based on armor integrity. Maybe the protagonist is a biker and decked out in leather. It's pretty difficult for the average zombie to bite through leather, but with enough persistence they can get through and infect the protagonist. To replenish armor, he has to pick up different types of clothing with different positive and negative attributes. A track suit might make it easier to sneak around and move quickly, but can only take 1 hit to integrity before it becomes lethal. Where as chainmail (from a Renaissance fair, which would be a great stage for a zombie game) has exceptional integrity, but is loud and heavy.

Or at least give a reason why they're resistant. Maybe they have sickle cell anemia or something and makes them resistant somehow.

Also, a good zombie game needs LOTS of different zombie models. Things get boring quickly if there's only "man in business suit" "man in casual clothes" and "woman" models. People are varied and different, so therefore zombies should be as well.

You have a very good point. The only thing I can think of is.. If an infnection like this actually came up in real life and threatened human life, survivors are gonna try pretty damn hard to obtain defense.