Before I can ask my topic question, I just want to make sure everyone knows what everything is. Meta, or the "4th Wall", is the fact that you are aware that you are in an unreal situation. For example, talking to the audience, or mention something about the series or game.

Now for the question that you have all waited so patiently for: What is your favorite instance of a Meta situation in a video game or movie?

I am still unaware of the defination of 'Meta'. from what I can find, it is derrived from Latin meaning 'change'.
Since when does Meta mean Breaking the 4th Wall in video games?

Anarchemitis:
I am still unaware of the defination of 'Meta'. from what I can find, it is derrived from Latin meaning 'change'.
Since when does Meta mean Breaking the 4th Wall in video games?

Well, in D&D, metagaming involves the players acting as though their characters aren't real, doing things like minmaxing, researching the best possible route et cetera. It's something I don't let in my games. Basically, their characters act as though they're aware of the rules of the game.

As for breaking the fourth wall moments, well, in Super Paper Mario, whenever you're taught a new ability, you're given instructions in terms of what buttons to press.
"Press 1 to use me! What's that? You don't know what I'm talking about? Don't worry, the powers that be know!"

Also, in Mother 3, right near the beginning, everybody goes inside to eat <Lucas' favourite food>. His grandfather lags behind, talks directly to you, tells you how to save, and then runs back going "wait for me!"

Anarchemitis:
I am still unaware of the defination of 'Meta'. from what I can find, it is derrived from Latin meaning 'change'.
Since when does Meta mean Breaking the 4th Wall in video games?

Meh, I'll run with his definition, but I'd really like an example.

The Monkey Island games do this 'meta' thing very well.

D'oh, beaten to it.

Hrm, I don't know if there's strictly a fourth wall to break, but the signs in World of Goo are great.

Anarchemitis:
I am still unaware of the defination of 'Meta'. from what I can find, it is derrived from Latin meaning 'change'.
Since when does Meta mean Breaking the 4th Wall in video games?

It doesn't.

However, the prefix meta- is used in several gaming circles. Most notably there is the metagame, which comes mainly from TCGs like Magic, or Organized RPG clubs like the RPGA or Warhammer clubs. It basically means 'The game beyond the game', and indicates players building character builds, decks, and armies, and comparing them theoretically to other builds, decks, and armies, in an attempt to find the best one to use.

It's also used in Dungeons and Dragons and other Tabletop RPGs with the term "Metagame Thinking", which specifically means using your own perceptions as a player to dictate your characters actions. "The DM wouldn't give us a trap we couldn't disarm" is an example of metagame thinking in a tabletop RPG.

I think for the most part this guy is talking about Easter Eggs, although there are many examples of games Breaking the 4th Wall, the most famous example is probably Metal Gear Solid, in each of the 3 first games (I haven't played the 4th) there is at least one scene that breaks the 4th wall; Psycho Mantis is thwarted by changing controller ports, Colonel Campbell tells you to stop playing the game in MGS2, and in MGS3, there is the boss that you have to die, and then you get come back to life and beat the boss.

There are other examples, but those are the ones I think about when I think of classic breaking of the 4th wall in gaming.

RhinoTuna:
The Monkey Island games do this 'meta' thing very well.

Definitely. I was really, really surprised (shocked?) to hear "Well, at least I don't need very expensive equipment in order to have fun! (.. which is pointing at the player, who probably has a big fat rig in order to play games)."

Of course, there were plenty of other moments in the Monkey Island games.. Though that was definitely the best for me.

Psycho Mantis and a lot of Metal Gear Solid come to mind. Eternal Darkness takes the meta approach to its logical conclusion.

I thought "Metagame" in Magic is the current most likely built in that expansion (meaning it's only in effect in Standard). Either it's that, or I haven't played for a VERY long time.

In MGS, very many people scratched their collective heads on what exactly the "Back of the CD case" meant.

The sniper boss in MGS3 also breaks the 4th wall in a way.. if you save after starting fighting him and come back in a week, snake finds him dead of old age.

Also, in MGS2 there is the FISSION MAILED screen

Syntax Error:
I thought "Metagame" in Magic is the current most likely built in that expansion (meaning it's only in effect in Standard). Either it's that, or I haven't played for a VERY long time.

The metagame in Magic the Gathering is just what I said it is. It's the comparison between different decks in an attempt to determine which is superior in which situations without ever playing the game.

There is a metagame for all formats, from Limited, to Standard, to Extended, to Vintage.

Syntax Error:
In MGS, very many people scratched their collective heads on what exactly the "Back of the CD case" meant.

classic 4th wall breaking.

There is also a part of the original who framed roger rabbit where you actually had to call jessica rabbit on the real phone.

the most famous example is probably Metal Gear Solid, in each of the 3 first games (I haven't played the 4th) there is at least one scene that breaks the 4th wall; Psycho Mantis is thwarted by changing controller ports

Ah yes, that was great, love how you were told to look on the back of your box to find the the phone number (It was a long time ago, I'm aware it's not a phone, just can't recall the name).

Also I recall an instance in Banjo Kazooie where the duo commented on the music changing and came to the conclusion that a boss was approaching.

edit: Oh and the orcs in WC3: "why don't you lead an army instead of touching me?"

Bard's Tale for the lastgen consoles had most of its jokes breaking the 4th wall. It was a lampoon of WRPG cliches, and as such had the main character talking directly to the narrator, which is breaking the fourth law just as much as it would be if he talked to the player :P

This may not be breaking the fourth wall but the moment in Portal where GLaDOS points out that what you're doing isn't heroic because only one of you can feel pain is brilliant.

the one part in max payne when whatsherface tells you that you're in a game and then he realizes it.

he talks about seeing menus behind his back and stuff.

Anarchemitis:
I am still unaware of the defination of 'Meta'. from what I can find, it is derrived from Latin meaning 'change'.
Since when does Meta mean Breaking the 4th Wall in video games?

OED; meta-, prefix:
A1. Denoting change, transformation, permutation, or substitution.
All examples of this use of the prefix are given as main entries. See, e.g., METACHROMATISM n., METACHROSIS n., METAGRAPHY n., METAPHYSIS n.1, METONOMATOSIS n.

A2. With sense 'beyond, above, at a higher level'.

a. (a). Prefixed to the name of a subject or discipline to denote another which deals with ulterior issues in the same field, or which raises questions about the nature of the original discipline and its methods, procedures, and assumptions.
Cf. earlier METAMATHEMATICAL adj., METAPHYSICS n., METAPOLITICAL adj., METAPOLITICS n., METATHEOLOGY n.

It's definition A2 that is being referred to here.

Would an example of breaking the 4th Wall be all reality shows? Becasue they are aware that there are rules to the game, they can talk to the camera, and they are aware of everything. Well, maybe people in reality shows are too dumb to realize it, but you get what I mean.

Thanks to everyone who is helping this thread! Maybe we should set up some rules as to what constitutes a meta situation?

The numerous meta moments of No More Heroes

Opening Cutscene: Travis directly talks to the player (referring to he or she as "you there with the remote" or something to that effect)

And then there's what goes on near the end, including this line from Jeane when Travis demands an explanation of just about everything : "You don't want this to be No More Heroes forever do you?"

and of course near the very end...

Henry: Lemme ask ya...how do you plan to put an end to all of this?
Travis: Wait a sec...you want me to tie up all these loose ends? I don't think so!
Henry: You're the protagonist! I'm just the cool, handsome foil, who happens to be your twin brother. Hate to say it, but it's your job!

Blixt:
Would an example of breaking the 4th Wall be all reality shows? Becasue they are aware that there are rules to the game, they can talk to the camera, and they are aware of everything. Well, maybe people in reality shows are too dumb to realize it, but you get what I mean.

Thanks to everyone who is helping this thread! Maybe we should set up some rules as to what constitutes a meta situation?

reality shows don't have 3 walls, so the fact that they're breaking the 4th wall doesn't even matter :P

The TV show "Fresh Prince of Bel-Air" broke the forth wall quite a lot.

I love 4th wall moments.
another MGS one, in the cutscene before you actually fight psycho mantis he thinks you doubt his power so he tells you to place the controller flat on the floor and he will make it move with only the power of his mind. controller proceeds to rumble and shuffle across the floor unless you had soft/fluffy carpet then it didnt work so well.

lenneth:
another MGS one, in the cutscene before you actually fight psycho mantis he thinks you doubt his power so he tells you to place the controller flat on the floor and he will make it move with only the power of his mind.

I enjoy it more when he reads your memory card, to find out what you have been playing.

Blixt:
Would an example of breaking the 4th Wall be all reality shows? Becasue they are aware that there are rules to the game, they can talk to the camera, and they are aware of everything. Well, maybe people in reality shows are too dumb to realize it, but you get what I mean.

Thanks to everyone who is helping this thread! Maybe we should set up some rules as to what constitutes a meta situation?

There's a difference between breaking the 4th wall and there not being a 4th wall to break, I'm afraid.

Nice thread. Yes, "meta" generally means "after" or "beyond" something, so it takes you beyond the boundaries of what the medium usually involves.

Another good one which I remember vividly is the escape from the abandoned warehouse in the first mission from Snatcher. As you're moving towards the exit, Metal Gear mentions that he can hear something, possibly a ticking sound. It is possible for the player to hear the sound, but it is very, very faint.

Metal Gear suggests turning up the volume on your TV so you can hear it better, and sure enough, it's quite clear. It's the only thing coming from the speakers at that point, so it just ticks gently through the silence. You then discover that the ticking is coming from a time bomb which is about to explode. Gillian and Metal Gear barely escape from the factory as the bomb explodes with a deafening noise, which is especially loud since you've left the volume turned up on the TV. Gillian complains that his ears are ringing, and Metal Gear replies, "That's because you left the volume turned up".

Interestingly, it's another Hideo Kojima game. He seems to be quite a fan of the 4th wall.

superbleeder12:
the one part in max payne when whatsherface tells you that you're in a game and then he realizes it.

he talks about seeing menus behind his back and stuff.

"Funny as Hell, it was the worst thing i could think of".

Even funnier when you consider:
A) Max is on a drug trip in this cutscene
B) Almost the exact same thing happens shortly before when whatshername tells Max he is in a Comicbook and he's seeing his past and future in panels (for people who don't know: Max Payne 1-2 are in part told through "Comic Book Cutscenes")

From No More Heroes:

Anarchemitis:
I am still unaware of the defination of 'Meta'. from what I can find, it is derrived from Latin meaning 'change'.
Since when does Meta mean Breaking the 4th Wall in video games?

Meta is the practice of something referring to itself. Like, a meta-poem would be a poem about poetry. As for meta-games, I think it's nice in moderation. Too much is just obnoxious.

Lukeje:

Anarchemitis:
I am still unaware of the defination of 'Meta'. from what I can find, it is derrived from Latin meaning 'change'.
Since when does Meta mean Breaking the 4th Wall in video games?

OED; meta-, prefix:
A1. Denoting change, transformation, permutation, or substitution.
All examples of this use of the prefix are given as main entries. See, e.g., METACHROMATISM n., METACHROSIS n., METAGRAPHY n., METAPHYSIS n.1, METONOMATOSIS n.

A2. With sense 'beyond, above, at a higher level'.

a. (a). Prefixed to the name of a subject or discipline to denote another which deals with ulterior issues in the same field, or which raises questions about the nature of the original discipline and its methods, procedures, and assumptions.
Cf. earlier METAMATHEMATICAL adj., METAPHYSICS n., METAPOLITICAL adj., METAPOLITICS n., METATHEOLOGY n.

It's definition A2 that is being referred to here.

Well, the Cooperative Campaign metagame in Halo 3 fits this definition A2. Where you compete with you ally for kills, try to get 3 head-shots in a row and enable Skulls to affect the 'texture' of the gameplay experience. However, I don't think any of this qualifies as being '4th wall breakage', so this thread may have been better entitled:

Your Favorite '4th wall Breakage' in Video Games

Unwieldy, but more correct.

Sorry, but no examples of this come to mind for me, mainly because I avoid games that break immersion.

I know this isn't exactly a Meta situation, but rather an un-Meta example, but it is my forum so hush. I remember when the first Pokemon game came out that you could chose your gender, "Are you a boy or a girl?". I was about 8 or 9 or whatever and I was outraged that it didn't know I was a guy. My masculinity was threatened, then I realized it was a game and got over it.

Graustein:

Anarchemitis:
I am still unaware of the defination of 'Meta'. from what I can find, it is derrived from Latin meaning 'change'.
Since when does Meta mean Breaking the 4th Wall in video games?

Well, in D&D, metagaming involves the players acting as though their characters aren't real, doing things like minmaxing, researching the best possible route et cetera. It's something I don't let in my games. Basically, their characters act as though they're aware of the rules of the game.

As for breaking the fourth wall moments, well, in Super Paper Mario, whenever you're taught a new ability, you're given instructions in terms of what buttons to press.
"Press 1 to use me! What's that? You don't know what I'm talking about? Don't worry, the powers that be know!"

Also, in Mother 3, right near the beginning, everybody goes inside to eat <Lucas' favourite food>. His grandfather lags behind, talks directly to you, tells you how to save, and then runs back going "wait for me!"

Isn't that also a phenomenon called "Suspension of Disbelief"?

kanada514:

Graustein:

Anarchemitis:
I am still unaware of the defination of 'Meta'. from what I can find, it is derrived from Latin meaning 'change'.
Since when does Meta mean Breaking the 4th Wall in video games?

Well, in D&D, metagaming involves the players acting as though their characters aren't real, doing things like minmaxing, researching the best possible route et cetera. It's something I don't let in my games. Basically, their characters act as though they're aware of the rules of the game.

As for breaking the fourth wall moments, well, in Super Paper Mario, whenever you're taught a new ability, you're given instructions in terms of what buttons to press.
"Press 1 to use me! What's that? You don't know what I'm talking about? Don't worry, the powers that be know!"

Also, in Mother 3, right near the beginning, everybody goes inside to eat <Lucas' favourite food>. His grandfather lags behind, talks directly to you, tells you how to save, and then runs back going "wait for me!"

Isn't that also a phenomenon called "Suspension of Disbelief"?

Isn't "Suspension of Disbelief" just over looking negative aspects of something to enjoy the greater good? Or taking the message out of story and ignoring the situations?

In World of Goo, there are signs scattered around the game that occasionally give you hints on how to complete each level. They're attributed to someone named "the Sign Painter," who's a barely-veiled stand-in for the developers. At one point, the Sign Painter mentions that your goo balls had a strange feeling that they were living inside a physics sim.

In retrospect, most of World of Goo could be called "meta."