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Paperboy Posts: 38 Joined: 15 Oct 2008   | |
BANNED  Posts: 4378 Joined: 21 Aug 2008     | ...Do you see many massive social groups portrayed in a fair or favorable light? It generally doesn't make for a very good story. User was banned for: Microsoft and the World Domination of Gaming&Communication. (Permanent) |
Gone Gonzo  Posts: 3986 Joined: 16 May 2008     | real life religion just doesn't fit into videogames very well.. like the old saying goes, there are two things you never talk about with strangers; politics and religion. Video games are the designers of games talking to millions of strangers. They don't want to piss anyone off by brandishing the religion/politics stick |
Gone Gonzo  Posts: 2335 Joined: 5 Nov 2008   | I think it is partly that gaming has strong roots in counter-culture, partly fear of being labeled "fundamentalists" by the invisible pigeonholeing council but mostly because the vast majority of pervayers of visual media who have any interest in dealing with complex or relevant subjects have their heads so deep inside of their own rectums that they are all in danger of chocking on themselves. |
BANNED  Posts: 12958 Joined: 30 Jan 2008   |
....you seen Call of Duty 4 lately? That was talking politics. User was banned for: Poll: What is your opinion on the Metal Gear Solid storylines?. (Permanent) |
Gone Gonzo Posts: 3986 Joined: 16 May 2008 | shhhh... at least half of my argument is treading water >.> |
Press Junketeer  Posts: 414 Joined: 18 Feb 2008     | There are a lot of positive portrayals of christians in a lot of media, and a lot of negative portrayal of atheists. Even Mass Effect was a little against atheism what with Ashley. The best atheists got was a "Shut up" response and then extending on into "RAAAAGEEEEE". Though the biggest reason may be because general assumption, characters are probably of the major religion in the world. The only need to really bring it up is often because they're crazy fundamentalists. That and developers like to be 'edgy'. When was the last time you saw a muslim portrayed kindly? The best you got was Assassin's Creed, which also portrayed Christians in a relatively kind light. As an edit, Japanese games are usually pretty harsh on religion because it's rather foreign to them. Well, in the way we do it. It's kind of a curiosity, especially since most of Japan isn't really on that spiritual or religious and is kind of an amalgam now of religious influences. |
Gone Gonzo  Posts: 2013 Joined: 24 Sep 2008    |
I completely disagree. A lack of overt Christain values is pretty much the only radical or anti-establishment viewpoint that video games fail to put forward. The reason, I think, is because they're perfectly aware that it's not going to sell very well. Video games are about instant gratification and base appeal (I don't think they have to be, mind you, I'm just saying that the vast majority of them are). If we throw Christianity in there, everybody's going to assume that it's going to be boring or preachy and, well, let's face it, it probably is. I don't think it's unique to games, either. I guess movies are more likely to throw a token mention to it (this character is a Christian, this character is wrestling with his faith, etc.), but religion isn't a part of most movies, either. I would say that the root reason that there aren't any Christian games out there is that publishers know that they are going to be severely restricting their potential customer base when they make that sort of game. |
BANNED Posts: 4378 Joined: 21 Aug 2008 |
COD4 was talking politics? The controversy over the music in LBP was actually far more enlightening and interesting than just about anything I've heard games talk about in terms of political or social issues. User was banned for: Microsoft and the World Domination of Gaming&Communication. (Permanent) |
Gone Gonzo  Posts: 1685 Joined: 7 Feb 2008   | One thing I do know. Never connect to one of those "Christian Counter-Strike" or "Christian Call of Duty 4" servers. Jesus tits it's so bad. |
Beat Writer  Posts: 224 Joined: 3 Mar 2008  |
Would you care to enlighten the non-FPS playing community why it's so bad? |
Press Junketeer Posts: 414 Joined: 18 Feb 2008 |
Any server that's overtly christian is usually into proselytizing and random scripture quotes. Though really, if you're going to any server that's advertising the server owner's religion what do you expect? |
Muckraker Posts: 262 Joined: 15 Oct 2008     | Fallout 3's main story had a very christian ending...and it blew massive chunks. |
Press Junketeer Posts: 414 Joined: 18 Feb 2008 |
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Beat Writer Posts: 224 Joined: 3 Mar 2008 |
Oh. My. I can't imagine why anyone would enjoy that, and I'm a member of said religion. When I hang out and play games with my Christian friends... well, we don't DO that. It sticks in my mind that no normal Christian should do that. Ever. ~le sigh~ Being Christian isn't about quoting the Bible (but it's handly sometimes) and "Bible-thumping" (always a poor choice) other people. It's about holding yourself to a higher standard of behavior because you believe it's the right way to be. It's not verbally harrassing other players, hacking/cheating, or picking on people. It's about being fair and playing nice. Whenever you join a Christian server, it should be a safe place. Admittedly, the Bible is a fantastic tool. And if we choose to quote scripture at each other, it really shouldn't bother anyone. But if I was trying to convert you, I would want you to be converted because you see who Jesus is in the way I act. Quoting scripture to non-believers right out of the bag is like giving a German directions in Swahili. DUH! It doesn't work that way. It NEVER works that way. When a non-believer starts to question, when they want to know more, when they say they're ready to maybe see what it's all about, THEN you break out the Bible. You basically tell them, "Everything about why I do what I do is pretty much in here." I dislike ignorant people (everyone has a flaw here and there...) but I really dislike ignorant Christians. I'm not perfect, (who is?) but seriously, I do NOT get why people do these things. ~headdesk~ q-_-'p |
Gone Gonzo Posts: 3986 Joined: 16 May 2008 | if you don't care about biblebumping, then just play the games as you are, and make religion a non-issue in gaming. If something offends your christian values, don't play it.. most things won't though |
Press Junketeer Posts: 414 Joined: 18 Feb 2008 |
The issue is that those of us who aren't Christian tend to only get into discussions about Christianity from that kind of person, the proselytizer. People who also seem to assume we're idiots who've never heard of Christianity. Had to go through high school with that for my first two years after openly admitting to be an atheist. Scores of people who decided I clearly had never heard of Jesus and thus just needed to hear that he was a person and suddenly I'd switch over just like that. It's very, very insulting to have people come, approach me on a subject I labored over for years before finally settling on an answer I felt all right with, and then having them brush off all my philosophical debates with a just 'oh clearly he's just ignorant and never listened, I'll do the thing and bring the news to him!'. And this isn't to you, but in general, please stop assuming we've never heard about the bible or read it. A lot of us have read it when trying to find our answer. A lot of us in the US were Christians before becoming atheists, we know it pretty intimately. |
Anonymous Source Posts: 9 Joined: 17 Jul 2008   | There are actually quite a few games out there made by Christians for Christians that are quite awful as games. The issue with Christianity, Islam, or politics in general in games is that saying, "This game is about Christian democrats," essentially alienates everyone else. I'm pretty open-minded as far as game content, but I would look elsewhere because I don't fall into either category. We must remember that even though we thing our ideologies are great, and so do many game developers, companies need to have as many people as possible feel comfortable living in the worlds they invent for a time. |
Beat Writer Posts: 224 Joined: 3 Mar 2008 |
I was just about to post in reply until I re-read the part that had "and this isn't to you" and went, "...oh." I have to admit, you have a great point. Since the most common religion in America is a version of Christianity, most atheists are very well-acquainted with the idea of it. I can see how really infuriating it would be to have every Christian treat you like a brainless retard that just came off the shuttle from Mars. "By the way have you heard of Jesus?" Of course, you morons, there's only two major holidays dedicated to him that let me skip school and at least one church in every town in the freaking country. (I actually have no idea if there is a church in every town or not; I like to exaggerate from time to time. ^_^) Truth be told however, even though nearly everyone has heard of the bible, not too many people can claim to have read it. So that's usually a good first tactic is to ask, "Have you even read the Bible?" And honestly, to be pretty "intimate" with the Bible, one has to do more than know John 3:16 and recite it on command like they teach you in Sunday School. It takes a long time to really know the Bible. I'm not saying you aren't pretty intimate with it, I'm just saying that even many of the atheists I've met actually don't know much about it. You know, if you're comfortable with your answer, there's really nothing I can say to change your mind. AND I know better than to try. I hope that my actions cause others to question their beliefs and to see that being a Christian can really be a good thing. A comfortable thing. But if you decide that's not for you, I'm not going to worry myself about it, or bother you about it. But I do want to ask a question, because I'm curious. What is it that you find so uncomfortable about Christianity now? PM if you like or not; I know it can be a sensitive subject. |
Beat Writer Posts: 224 Joined: 3 Mar 2008 | By the way. Religious games make terrible games because religions tend to show the world in terms of black and white and it really is anything but for the masses down here. It's my argument for why Sims2 sucked: to be a happy individual, you had to be a paragon of whatever personality type you chose. Choosing romance made you a bisexual whore. Not that I have a problem with bisexuals, but if you aren't one, it feels really weird to have a Sim that wants to do everyone in sight. I appreciate that the game allows the choice but I'll be honest, it shocked me. I just wasn't expecting it. And about the "whore" bit... well, YOU play it and tell me it's not really whorish. There was little room to be "normal." I think being the hero in a Christian game would make me into something that I do not feel comfortable with. I am not the smiting holy hammer of God. There is nothing that a Christian game could offer me that would in any way allow me to feel normal but if it put me in charge of saving the world from demons, I would of course have to be one of the same self-righteous holier-than-thou pricks that I despise. I just can't see a game that would let me feel real and be a hero at the same time. Even if I never had to smite another human in the game which would give me the squicky for passing judgement on another human soul in a "realistic setting" and just stuck to demons, you know that the hero would have to be a goody-two-shoes virgin that even I give the funny-eye to. Because I don't think the masses would accept anything else. I sort of expect people to be flawed, and when they are really really just shy of perfect, it makes me really really suspicious. Paranoid and not very flattering, I know. I never said I was perfect. =P There are so many sects of just Christianity that to make a game that will satisfy all the sects would be near impossible. Your market at that point becomes incredibly small. As demented as it sounds, the Diablo games were the ones to me that came closest to be to being a religious game. You ran around smiting demons. Even if you consorted with the undead, you still were down on demons and other unholy spawn of Satan. But since I actually met parents that called the pokemon games satanic, yes that's right, POKEMON, I seriously doubt that they would share the same view I did. |
Gone Gonzo  Posts: 2070 Joined: 23 Jan 2008   |
Eh... Honestly, I have a really hard time characterizing you people as anything else... I admit, there's some who aren't, and I'll even entertain in my mind the possibility that you're one of those who aren't, but the crushing majority have convinced me that that IS who they are... Blame them :/ On a more scientific/psychological explanation which you might not like and will probably deny but it's actually quite true: Nobody really likes religion...Really... Nobody honestly does... They either fear it, look for some false hope in it or "all of the above". Games are things you WANT to do, things you like. |
Copy Clerk Posts: 100 Joined: 21 Sep 2008 | I suspect there are far, far fewer positive portrayals of atheists (such as myself) than Christians in the media. It's true, there are a few religious nutjobs in games, but even in those cases the underlying premise is that extremism is bad, but 'spirituality' is good. I can't think of any games that tacitly endorsed a truly atheistic view of the universe. That's not to say there haven't been any. Anyone got some suggestions? |
Gone Gonzo  Posts: 3687 Joined: 8 May 2008     |
And ? Not a fan of realism in games ? Sorry, Im just playing <.< |
On the Record  Posts: 6993 Joined: 22 Aug 2008 |
BLASPHEMY! Heh. Heh. Anyway, if you're after games which put Christians in a favourable light, might I point you in the direction of some Christian games? List on the wikipedia.
Admittedly it's been a fair while since I played it, but I think Grandia 2 had that sort of thing in it. |
Gone Gonzo  Posts: 2378 Joined: 29 Oct 2008   | I'm not trying to be total black-metal kid but I think a game with strong and positive christianity content would bore the life out of me. No offense. |
Pulitzer Laureate  Posts: 793 Joined: 25 Oct 2008    | ...The Belmonts are Christian, right? |
Muckraker  Posts: 274 Joined: 5 Oct 2007   | I guess (as a Christian) I'm curious to know what sort of "Christian values" should be presented. Most "values" tend to be universal: kindness, charity, loyalty. I agree that Christians today have a "bad name" in that the idiots tend to be running the asylum--if modern media is to be believed. That's pretty much the only kind of "Christian" that gets on TV. My pastor calls it "fear-based Christianity." I don't think you can claim that religious crazies ended with the Reformation. Martin Luther WAS a religious crazy in his time. What he did was very radical. It's difficult for us today to understand how powerful the Church was at that time, but a single monk taking on the Church would be like one guy standing in front of the White House shouting his argument and eventually winning. BTW, "Luther" is a very watchable movie on the Reformation that is actually very historically accurate for a movie. I don't think any *cough* serious portrayal of Christianity in a video game would do actual Christianity any favors. While one is playing video games is not exactly the optimum time to make an impression, you know? I think it would always feel out of place, like obvious product placement in a movie or TV show. It's not the correct format for the message. |
Gone Gonzo  Posts: 1374 Joined: 16 Jul 2008 |
Huzzah! You just hit the nail on the head with what the larger christian world portrays muslims! Personally I don't follow any set religion, my beliefs are close to Bhuddism but I have a few differences. Either or, the point I am trying to make is that every religion has fanatic nutjobs, even Christianity. And don't you dare claim otherwise. And fanatic nutjobs are best suited in an equally nutjob role. Alot of the time religion is just a fallback because game developers can't decide on another legitimate reason. EDIT: I must point out I have nothing against any religion, its your own path to make. It's just a case that most of the people I meet who are religious are very stuck up and refuse to admit that there are people just as bad in their religion as they percieve in others. |
Gone Gonzo  Posts: 2079 Joined: 1 Jan 2008  | Well, Peanuts had some pretty strong Christian overtones, and that was pretty damn popular, if that's anything. |
Gone Gonzo  Posts: 1090 Joined: 3 Apr 2008   |
I once stumbled upon one of those, it wasn't bad, but then again I did have voice chat turned off. |
Gone Gonzo  Posts: 2872 Joined: 25 Aug 2008 | I think its the fact that normal Christian people are a bit mundane and uninteresting, however if you have some nutty hell and brimstone extremist Christians in a game, then its fun, it creates controversy which sells better and of course its comforting to people who hate religion and helps justify their own views. I myself have nothing against normal sane Christians although my Christian friend does get a bit offended when I start slandering and insulting jesus. |
Muckraker Posts: 262 Joined: 15 Oct 2008 | Oh, who did it before the christians? |
BANNED Posts: 4378 Joined: 21 Aug 2008 | Every religion out there? User was banned for: Microsoft and the World Domination of Gaming&Communication. (Permanent) |
Pulitzer Laureate  Posts: 946 Joined: 7 Aug 2008   | I've allways thought a cool game would be if you played the anti christ the main enemey was the rebirth of jesus but he was all crazy and started the apocalypse and starts killing everyone (like christans want) and then you as the anti christ have to save everyone. |
Press Junketeer Posts: 414 Joined: 18 Feb 2008 |
People period sacrificied. But for a very specific one, read Homer's Iliad. Take note of when they're invading Troy. They know the first man to jump off of the boats will die. Some one takes up arms and charges anyways, earning himself a place in the Elysian fields for his sacrifice. And for a case of death and rebirth, Osiris of Egyptian mythology died, was torn apart, and then rebuilt and became the god of the afterlife.
However often you might see a bad religious portrayal, a lot of people just don't seem to understand why some one can be an atheist since they tend to like their religion. And it's good that they like their religion, it just seems that people are kind of prone to just assuming that atheists are humorless pricks who suffered through a tragedy that made them into the Raging Bitter Atheist since that could be the only possible reason they aren't religious. That or it's just due to the fact media portrayals of everything gets condensed into its simplest form for the most part. |
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I am a Christian who loves gameing and other forms of visual media but for the life of me I can not seem to find any popular stories that put us in a fair (forget favorable) light.
I mostly see us portraied as nut case fanatics or just plain idots.
Granted this would be more accureate if this stuff were set in the Middle Ages where it would be at least somewhat true. It seems that no one realizes that the Reformation has occured.
In fact, dose anyone even KNOW what the Refomation was?
I willing to answer any questions you may ask so ask away if you are curious/unsure of any facts.