Something happened in EVE and I know this hasn't been discussed in a long long time, but I wanted to bring it up just in case there are a few unlucky souls here at the escapist who haven't heard of it. Here's the basic summary: Mirial, the CEO of the once giant Ubiqua Seraph corporation apparently participated in or orchestrated some scams and stole from many a corporate wallet. In doing this, she happened to piss off a certain unnamed player. This certain unnamed player gave "The Guiding Hand Social Club" a simple contract: to bring him/her Mirial's frozen corpse. "The Guiding Hand Social Club" spent the next 12 months infiltrating every level of Ubiqua Seraph's infrastructure, they had agents in the board of directors, many high ranking positions, and even one named Arenis Xemdal (code named "The Valentine Operative") who was trusted so dearly by Mirial that he could influence her decisions and thus the direction the corporation took. He was able to convince her to fly around in her insanely expensive limited edition ship next to his even more insanely expensive and even rarer ship. This all culminated at 6am in the destruction of her ship by his and an entire fleet of Guiding Hand battleships as well as the simultaneous theft of everything in every corp hangar in the entire galaxy. Here's the full story for those of you who are interested: http://www.computerandvideogames.com/article.php?id=180867&site=pcg .
I want to know what everyone here at the escapist thinks of this heist. Not what you thought of it when it happened, but what you currently think of it now that you've had time to mull it over. I will post my opinion of the matter in a short while, I just want to see how everyone else responds first. Oh, and I don't want to make this a poll since I don't like having numbers next to bars with no response to justify them. Please, no flaming or any such nonsense.

Hang on, were actual players involved in this or is this just some great writing by the EVE creators.

Dommyboy:
Hang on, were actual players involved in this or is this just some great writing by the EVE creators.

Yep, it actually happened. I used to subscribe to PC Gamer magazine, and there was an article about it; a friend of mine read it and that was why he started playing EVE Online.

Good morning blues:

Dommyboy:
Hang on, were actual players involved in this or is this just some great writing by the EVE creators.

Yep, it actually happened. I used to subscribe to PC Gamer magazine, and there was an article about it; a friend of mine read it and that was why he started playing EVE Online.

That whole scenario is incredible to have happened in a game. That is the kind of event you expect to be scripted through a quest or something but wow, that also almost makes me want to throw Yahtzee's review aside of EVE and have a crack at it.

Not meaning to be the rain cloud over your picnic, but that article is nearly a year old.

EDIT: That article is in fact a year old re-telling of something that happened in 2005.

I have to say this...

PWNED!!

Indigo_Dingo:

Good morning blues:

Dommyboy:
Hang on, were actual players involved in this or is this just some great writing by the EVE creators.

Yep, it actually happened. I used to subscribe to PC Gamer magazine, and there was an article about it; a friend of mine read it and that was why he started playing EVE Online.

I'd view it as a reason to stop.

Really? The fact that you can carry out ridiculously elaborate and incredible stunts like this isn't enticing?

I didn't get into it because it's still an MMO and the vast majority of your time is spent doing incredibly mundane, boring, tedious, repetitive crap, or actually simply staring at your screen not doing anything while you travel for literally hours at a time.That said, a game where you can do this kind of crap sounds totally awesome, at least on paper.

nilcypher:
Not meaning to be the rain cloud over your picnic, but that article is nearly a year old.

I don't want to be a rain cloud over yours, but when I showed that PC Gamer article to my friend, I was in grade 12. I'm now in my third year of university. This happened much more than a year ago.

Good morning blues:

nilcypher:
Not meaning to be the rain cloud over your picnic, but that article is nearly a year old.

I don't want to be a rain cloud over yours, but when I showed that PC Gamer article to my friend, I was in grade 12. I'm now in my third year of university. This happened much more than a year ago.

I think someone quoted me a little too fast...

nilcypher:
Not meaning to be the rain cloud over your picnic, but that article is nearly a year old.

EDIT: That article is in fact a year old re-telling of something that happened in 2005.

I don't want to be the rain cloud over your picnic, but I guess I will anyway. You know what, I'll just quote the first sentence from my original post: "Something happened in EVE and I know this hasn't been discussed in a long long time, but I wanted to bring it up just in case there are a few unlucky souls here at the escapist who haven't heard of it."

Indigo_Dingo:

Good morning blues:

Dommyboy:
Hang on, were actual players involved in this or is this just some great writing by the EVE creators.

Yep, it actually happened. I used to subscribe to PC Gamer magazine, and there was an article about it; a friend of mine read it and that was why he started playing EVE Online.

I'd view it as a reason to stop.

I'd view it as a reason to start. That's what's so great about EVE, it's open ended nature, anything goes. You must live a REALLY sheltered life to make that kind of comment.

Ooh, sassy!

You're banned forever...

I jest, of course, but you're heading down a slippery slope here. You're dredging up year old articles about three year old events. Where does it end? How far back are you willing to go? Shall I start looking for commercials for the NES, just in case someone missed it?

No, of course not, that would be silly.

There is also the fact that you are glorifying what amounts to mass griefing, but that's a completely different issue.

PS: Paragraphs man, paragraphs!

PPS: Don't be rude to other users please.

nilcypher:
Ooh, sassy!

You're banned forever...

I jest, of course, but you're heading down a slippery slope here. You're dredging up year old articles about three year old events. Where does it end? How far back are you willing to go? Shall I start looking for commercials for the NES, just in case someone missed it?

No, of course not, that would be silly.

There is also the issue of you glorifying what amounts to mass griefing, but that's a completely different issue.

PS: Paragraphs man, paragraphs!

It seems as though you misread my post. I wasn't stating that these kinds of activities were admirable, I was just stating that the open ended nature of EVE is what makes it such a great game. Anything goes, that includes budding entrepreneurs as well as thiefs and pirates.

EDIT: I'm sorry it wasn't in paragraphs, but I just wanted to post it, I wasn't trying to make it the greatest work of literature in the past few decades or even a semi-decent work of literature. Its whole purpose was to inform people about the massive heist these guys pulled, nothing more. Also, I wasn't being rude, I was simply stating that that person clearly hadn't read the first sentence of my original post.

Good morning blues:

Dommyboy:
Hang on, were actual players involved in this or is this just some great writing by the EVE creators.

Yep, it actually happened. I used to subscribe to PC Gamer magazine, and there was an article about it; a friend of mine read it and that was why he started playing EVE Online.

I read that too, and I did try EVE online, but found it hard to get into and extremely grindly. Didn't get beyond 2 days into the trial before I gave it up.

Are you on the EVE Online street team or something?

Someone should definitly make a nerd version of Oceans 11 out of that ^^

nilcypher:
Are you on the EVE Online street team or something?

I didn't make this post to advertise EVE, I did it to tell people about the greatest heist ever pulled in a video game (greatest non-scripted at least). If I were trying to advertise EVE Online, I wouldn't do it here. Every other advertisement I see on the Escapist is for EVE Online and Yahtzee reviewed EVE so I'm sure everyone here knows what it is already.

I was completely out of the scene when this happened and, with nods to nil and what he's getting at, I have to say this is pretty damned old news to be posting in any forum. Also note that I have no real experience with EVE so there may be... flaws... in my post.

But, I can see where you're going with it so my opinion on it (in short):

First point: 10 months of planning for 1 hour of execution. Perfect, flawless, real world. That something like this happened in a game is tragic, not to the player who was annihilated, but to the team who spent that much time setting it up. It's easy to pull this sort of thing off online - you merely have to establish trust and work your way up, there's no way of knowing if anyone has a second account going or anything like that, so taking this much time to setup a hit is just tragic.

Second point: Wonderful planning and execution. This is both a follow on and an opposition of my previous point. 10 months of planning, mass operatives, deep infiltration - the stuff of legend, and definitely a story that should be told around the campfires (like the story of the nethack-er spending months polypiling gems only to drink a cursed potion of gain level...).

Probably the major point everyone wants to know is, do I think it's a good thing that they did this? Definitely. Mass attacking like that, timed execution, it's perfect. It's an attractive reason for me to start getting into the game, and I'm seriously thinking about doing it. Dealing with mass infiltration, trust and so forth is appealing as hell.

Short and disjointed, hope it provides an insight you're looking for.

Gitsnik:
I was completely out of the scene when this happened and, with nods to nil and what he's getting at, I have to say this is pretty damned old news to be posting in any forum. Also note that I have no real experience with EVE so there may be... flaws... in my post.

But, I can see where you're going with it so my opinion on it (in short):

First point: 10 months of planning for 1 hour of execution. Perfect, flawless, real world. That something like this happened in a game is tragic, not to the player who was annihilated, but to the team who spent that much time setting it up. It's easy to pull this sort of thing off online - you merely have to establish trust and work your way up, there's no way of knowing if anyone has a second account going or anything like that, so taking this much time to setup a hit is just tragic.

Second point: Wonderful planning and execution. This is both a follow on and an opposition of my previous point. 10 months of planning, mass operatives, deep infiltration - the stuff of legend, and definitely a story that should be told around the campfires (like the story of the nethack-er spending months polypiling gems only to drink a cursed potion of gain level...).

Probably the major point everyone wants to know is, do I think it's a good thing that they did this? Definitely. Mass attacking like that, timed execution, it's perfect. It's an attractive reason for me to start getting into the game, and I'm seriously thinking about doing it. Dealing with mass infiltration, trust and so forth is appealing as hell.

Short and disjointed, hope it provides an insight you're looking for.

Just because they put thought and effort into it doesn't mean they poured their whole lives into it. They didn't have to be online 24/7 or even 6/7. It took planning, precision, and cunning, but it didn't take too much time. If you feel as though your life might be consumed by EVE if you start playing, it probably will. Even though EVE does tend to find its way into your every thought (if you play it at least), it doesn't mean you have to play it a lot in order to get good in it or to do something special. They probably did that with just 2-3 hours a day.

EDIT: That paragraph thing is so disjointed, but readable so please don't complain.

My favourite videogame heist was when a truckload of copies of BattleGears of SolidRising were stolen by a gang of bandits and flogged off on the black market a week before the release date.

Wait, that's just my weird recurring dream.

My bad, carry on.

It sounds more like they exploited the shared resources system (however it works) than actually finding a clever way to realistically rob the corporation. More importantly, I do not like how a 'hit' involves stealing 20 billion of game currency in assets.

I can appreciate the gravity of the operation, it just didn't strike me as skill by the robbers as much as a lack of intrinsic security within the game.

The assassination was fine, although if I were the target, I'd have a few personal words for my 'lieutenant', and I'm sure she probably did.

Eipok Kruden:

Indigo_Dingo:

Good morning blues:

Dommyboy:
Hang on, were actual players involved in this or is this just some great writing by the EVE creators.

Yep, it actually happened. I used to subscribe to PC Gamer magazine, and there was an article about it; a friend of mine read it and that was why he started playing EVE Online.

I'd view it as a reason to stop.

I'd view it as a reason to start. That's what's so great about EVE, it's open ended nature, anything goes. You must live a REALLY sheltered life to make that kind of comment.

Meh, I'm not so sure. The damages these griefers for hire can inflict can result in hundreds of hours of work or waiting being completely wasted. For example, I've played a few of these persistent world browser games (Neveron (the mech-warrior one), that Romans-Gauls-Barbians village builder one, and that Greek city builder one). In each case, I was attacked and had my resourced taken at some point. In each case, either I simply couldn't advance, or was being reduced to an extremely low rate of advancement by these attackers - in one case, I knew the guy in real life, and he was an utter jerk. In effect, I felt there was no point playing as they are only fun for the 1% of gamers on the top of the pile.

Now, these were all free games. I shudder to think of the wasted time and money on subscription-based games. Risk is one thing - moderate infrequent loses are needed in MMO's, else there is no challenge. But the merciless raiding, plundering, and out right theft by most players on the newbies in these games just defeats people's desire to continue.

She wasn't a newbie, she was a powerful CEO that had made a lot of enemies through shady deals, theft, and just about everything else she did. And sure there's griefers in EVE who pick on newbs, but those people are just as vulnerable themselves and they're usually no smarter than the griefers you find in other mmorpgs. Also, the way EVE works, it's rare for someone to attack someone else without provocation (by provocation, I mean being fired upon) since CONCORD (the in-game police) will kill anyone who breaks the law. Griefers try to trick newbs into accidentally aggroing them (once someone has committed a hostile act such as firing upon your ship or stealing from one of your cans, you may destroy their ship without CONCORD intervening). Also, there are plenty of pirate hunting corps that just go around attacking every pirate, can tipper, and criminal they find.

Eipok Kruden:
She wasn't a newbie, she was a powerful CEO that had made a lot of enemies through shady deals, theft, and just about everything else she did. And sure there's griefers in EVE who pick on newbs, but those people are just as vulnerable themselves and they're usually no smarter than the griefers you find in other mmorpgs. Also, the way EVE works, it's rare for someone to attack someone else without provocation (by provocation, I mean being fired upon) since CONCORD (the in-game police) will kill anyone who breaks the law. Griefers try to trick newbs into accidentally aggroing them (once someone has committed a hostile act such as firing upon your ship or stealing from one of your cans, you may destroy their ship without CONCORD intervening). Also, there are plenty of pirate hunting corps that just go around attacking every pirate, can tipper, and criminal they find.

I was more refering to griefing in general. And those Guild-guys are mercaneries, happy to attack anyone for a price.

For the Guiding Hand's part, they've heard similar stories but aren't concerned as to their veracity. "Allegedly, she is herself a corp thief, and escrow scammer. This is a large part of why we were hired, although I have not personally verified it - it is simply not my business to."

I find EVE to be great to read about due to these stories. Actually participating doesn't really draw me as much because of the time and money that gets stuck in it. I'm also pretty sure games such as these could completely absorb me so I steer wide and clear.

Personally I think EVE to be the closest we've gotten to a true virtual world yet. Second Life is mostly a diversion or a way to make a statement or enact a fantasy, and WoW is still too much a game by comparison.

Nice merc mentality those Guiding Hand guys have there too.

Aardvark:

My bad, carry on.

Adding The Doktor to this thread isn't a bad at all.

That sounds really cool, but at the same time it's kind of scary that someone will put so much effort to get revenge in a game.

This is why MMOs don't appeal to me. They spent a full year executing an incredibly elaborate plan to kill 1 person and steal a lot of money? Yeah, that pretty much sums up the most boring year of playing a video game ever IMO.

KSarty:
This is why MMOs don't appeal to me. They spent a full year executing an incredibly elaborate plan to kill 1 person and steal a lot of money? Yeah, that pretty much sums up the most boring year of playing a video game ever IMO.

You find this story boring? I've never EVER heard anyone say that about this. How are infiltration, betrayal, espionage, and theft boring?

That's why I don't play games where culminateable assets can be taken away by other players.
Oh wait.

*sighs*

This along with the famed 700billion isk scam are both all well and good, but I wish people would leave them be. We have had much MUCH bigger thefts in EVE than the GHSC scam, and a few of those lasted even longer in the final stage than the entire GHSC thing took to plan, stage and make off with the goods.

Things like this happen in a game where theft, scamming and so forth are seen as social aspects of the universe. I do dislike how people keep bringing old stuff up.

Also for the record: Entire GHSC scam worth was around 20billion. A lot of isk in its day, but since then three motherships have been stolen by one of the same people, for a total value of 68billion.

This is turning into one of those things you talk about around a camp fire, but nobody wants to hear.

-Signed, a 5 year running EVE player who is fed up with this crap comming up every three months.

Honestly, this makes me wish my PC was working again so I could try this game out (I'm at work now). It's this type of freedom in an online game that makes it so much more...intriguing.

You couldn't pull anything like this off in WoW (Which I DID play). Not even close. This really is crazy awesome. I mean...infiltrating a corporation? Knowing that every time you dock with their stations (I'm assuming, never played the game) or dealt with them, passed them in the...space hallways(?), you know that you're in there for one purpose, and that is to take them down form the inside.

And what a freaking rush that must have been when that was pulled off! Especially the right hand man. Playing with someone for MONTHS and building their trust, just to totally destroy them. Crazy.

Theo Samaritan:
*sighs*

This along with the famed 700billion isk scam are both all well and good, but I wish people would leave them be. We have had much MUCH bigger thefts in EVE than the GHSC scam, and a few of those lasted even longer in the final stage than the entire GHSC thing took to plan, stage and make off with the goods.

Things like this happen in a game where theft, scamming and so forth are seen as social aspects of the universe. I do dislike how people keep bringing old stuff up.

Also for the record: Entire GHSC scam worth was around 20billion. A lot of isk in its day, but since then three motherships have been stolen by one of the same people, for a total value of 68billion.

This is turning into one of those things you talk about around a camp fire, but nobody wants to hear.

-Signed, a 5 year running EVE player who is fed up with this crap comming up every three months.

Even though you have heard of this, there's a lot of people who haven't. Stop complaining because you were lucky enough to be playing when it happened, you should rejoice. So many people have started playing EVE because of this story, it doesn't need to die off just yet.

Eipok Kruden:
Even though you have heard of this, there's a lot of people who haven't. Stop complaining because you were lucky enough to be playing when it happened, you should rejoice. So many people have started playing EVE because of this story, it doesn't need to die off just yet.

I moan not because people shouldn't hear about it. I moan because there have been bigger and much more elaborate instances of theft even in the past year and yet people still go back to 2005.

It was the first, not the best.

I gave my EVE account away. I had well over a billion ISK worth of personal property. 4 Battleships, 3 Battlecruisers and a bunch of Frigates. I was well on my way to carrier piloting. I gave it to someone who has been playing only slightly longer then I have.