I for one, am all for going back to the basics, getting rid of the terrible physics, bringing back Nebuo Uematsu, adding more depth to the game play, and whatever it needs to take. Sorry Square but FF13 is not the direction we need to be going in.

I'm going to buy FF13 but I thoroughly agree with you, I feel the following.

FF12 was a good attempt at revising the series. It had a more serious story, more realistic characters (at times) and a new take on an old battle system. It also had one of the BEST worlds we've ever seen however it also had a few glaring flaws that need addressing...

1) The world does not want Vaan or Tidus again, deal with it, I'd rather have Balthier or Zidane.

2) Give us USEFUL abilities, FFXII suffered from the fact that you never needed to do anything. Most Technicks were useless and I often only used magic when I needed the range. Also later boss battles were basically just Mist Knack festivals.

3) Story focus IS YOUR STRONG POINT, FFXII was too thin on plot and too heavy on the dungeon crawl.

4) Give us some Out of Combat play that isn't just "Run Around Village" or "Play Mini-Game A" and maybe integrating some sort of Out of Battle Skill System might be a good plan.

5) Pull Nomura from the series, his age is OVER, leave him with Kingdom Hearts and TWEWY, he did better there.

That's my opinion anyway. I don't feel that the Final Fantasy series should transform into WRPG's, I don't want to see creatable heros with no personality, I don't care if its linear or non-linear, I don't want to see the series descend into crappy realtime battles ala Star Ocean or Tales Games.

Dark settings are where it's at. Dystopian futures are the defining feature of Final Fantasy.

The top three greatest games all had those and weren't for everyone's opinion group, which made them good.

FF6 - Dark tyrannical Iron Age with magic.
FF7 - Dark corporate run Modern Age with magic.
FFT - A rampaging church, rampaging religious groups.

These are the defining moments to the FF series, the evil within the worlds.

I don't really class them as final fantasy anymore. Sure they have the name but it's not the same people making the game and quite frankly it shows (see FFX-2 or FFXII)

Richard Groovy Pants:
Change is good, embrace it.
The FF series doesn't need any kind of saving.

The name sells. Its not about the saving Final Fantasy as a series, its about saving each individual games. I really don't feel they need any saving at all though. I think 9 and 10 were both masterpieces in their own right, but when I played 12 I couldn't even bring myself to finish the opening scene. The Battle System just felt so...unnatural to me. I didn't care for it. I think its the Sum of its Parts that make each Final Fantasy something to be enjoyed.

I will allow change if it brings back the essential elements behind FF.

Good versus Evil
INTERSTING Character designs that don't look like some J-Pop loving fanboy's dream wardrobe.
Basic designs (stop with the horrible designs)
Take away all elements from FF9 through FF12.
Let me stand there...damnit.

Hmmm. I've been a bit out of touch with Square's premiere franchise since the SNES days, but I have found that there are plenty of other great RPGs out there for those willing to look. Shin Megami Tensei: Nocturne is my favorite RPG of all time and it's a mere four years old... not even ready for the pedistal we put things on.

So my advice to those wishing to see Square's return to form, is to read reviews, constantly evaluate your brand loyalty, enjoy what you have, and know that it is nigh impossible to reproduce a previous incarnation of gaming greatness. Great, inspiring games seem to emerge out of nowhere (with proper groundwork under the radar), and it's almost silly to expect lightning to keep striking in the same place forever (see "Nintendo" or "SEGA").

I don't think I will ever truly understand the hatred people have for Final Fantasy XII.

I really liked it, except for the aweful main character and the intense grind.

The new battle system COULD be fine with some better abilities at your disposal.

Final Fantasy XII has the most interesting world since 6 and easily has the most realistic world design out of ANY Final Fantasy.

Personally I think FF doesnīt need a trip back to the roots.
Honestly, hasnīt Square Enix milked that particually cow often enough???
And the whole "Fabula Nova Crystalis" theme is closer to the old games anyway.

Huh... Here I thought the general consensus was that XII is, in fact, a good game - sure, I haven't bothered with the reviews, but still (Ok, after having checked metacritic I see I'm not alone on this.) Then it turns out that people don't like it. Sure, the story is thin but (and hold onto your hats for this one) to my mind every Final Fantasy game has a thin story. The general gameplay of XII more than makes up for it, in my humble (if a bit skewed) opinion.
If Hideo Kojima needs to have his scripts edited, it's nothing compared to the good folks over at Square Enix.
It's a shame really; all their plots start out great, but then they bring in the characters. Why do they always have to be so damn obnoxious? It boggles the mind.

Richard Groovy Pants:
Change is good, embrace it.
The FF series doesn't need any kind of saving.

Yeah since when did it become a boat full of holes anyway?

Yes, but PEOPLE HATE CHANGE.

The fault with the game was that it was badly paced. That's all. I'm in no mood (It's 3:24 AM!) to debate this However so I'll just post a Link and make a remark.

http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/genmessage.php?board=459841&topic=46066678 (Keep in mind this relates to STORY, Gameplay I'll defend when I'm freaking awake)

Nostalgia makes people make stupid suggestions a lot. The games don't need saving, for the same reason everything else must grow and advance so must FF, and that is by keeping it's back turned to the past.

I have played every FF and with the exception of 6 beating it in story and characters I think XII is better than the rest in every buggering way.

note that does not include the Spin-offs.

Also why does ANYONE look at Final Fantasy as a Series? their is no continuity, it's not the same world, or any connection to any previous one.

Also I think Nomura is awesome but am again to tired to defend that now (Although I admit his work is Your Mileage May vary)

If anyone honestly thinks anything past FF9 is worthy to stand next to the previous titles...then they are probably below the age of sixteen, love J-Pop Anime, or were introduced to the FF series from anything past 9, or have exceptionally horrible taste in story structure, mood, and plot development.

This is not a good avenue for the series to take, it lacks the straightforward Good versus Evil aspect that made the others so prevelant. Not too mention the characters all look like they've just stepped out of some ecstacy ridden rave concert with the pacifiers in their mouths.

When was the main FF series any good in the first place?

I'm 18 ya douche and I have played them all, your opinion != Word of God.

also whats wrong with Anime have YOU ever seen a man get the better half of his head chopped off? no? WELL SHUT UP THEN. Granted I didn't like X-2 but it's battle system was fast, which is more than I can say for 7 and 8 with all the crap those two pulled. 1 and 2 just being BAD 3 lacking a decent plot and being Nintendo Hard, 4 being cliche,

5 and 6 are the awesome ones, and 5's story is a little weak, and 6's dies right around the world of Ruin when they decide to go all free-roam. (Sudden Genre Shift)

Holy Crap I get it now! Arsen is a 'True Fan.' ah it makes so much SENSE.

ThePlasmatizer:
When was the main FF series any good in the first place?

your opinion != Word of God. delicious Copy-Pasta

Arsen:
If anyone honestly thinks anything past FF9 is worthy to stand next to the previous titles...than they are probably below the age of sixteen or love J-Pop Anime.

This is not a good avenue for the series to take, it lacks the straightforward Good versus Evil aspect that made the others so prevelant. Not too mention the characters all look like they've just stepped out of some ecstacy ridden rave concert with the pacifiers in their mouths.

Did you play XII, I mean through to the end?

It's less J-poppy than VII (except in Costume Design for the Vaan and Ashe). No crazy hair styles, everything had a very polished Medieval look to it, weapons looked sensible. The soundtrack is entirely orchestrated epic with narry a techno/electronica note in sight (I should know, I've been listening to it a lot recently) and the story for once DOESN'T involve Teenagers saving the world, Vaan and Penelo are meant to be the Rosencrantz and Gildenstern of the game, Vaan is just an annoying prat.

XII borrows a LOT more heavily from western influences like Star Wars and Lord of the Rings. As well it focuses far more on Politics and Motivation rather than simple good vs. evil. It represented an attempt to shift away from the heavy Jpop influences of previous games. Hence why they brought in the director of Final Fantasy Tactics and Vagrant Story to work on the game, rather than handing it over to Nomura like they did for 13. Unfortunately he suffered a nervous breakdown and we see his influence gradually begin to fade (The journey to the Stillshrine of Miriam is where I first noticed it, every dungeon/area before that had a different clever gimic that was actually a lot of fun).

Seriously, I want someone to actually tell me what is wrong with FFXII other than the shitty battle system, grind and Vaan, because I've never a good arguement in that respect.

The fact that the final fanrtasy series is constantly being reinvented shows that it's always changing. It doesn't need saving because it's practically a self sustaining trademark, the name alone brings in the money. Anyone who complains about Final Fantasy not needing change needs to replay the games and reanalize themselves as a fan.

Richard Groovy Pants:

Rezfon:
I don't really class them as final fantasy anymore. Sure they have the name but it's not the same people making the game and quite frankly it shows (see FFX-2 or FFXII)

Or FFX! Oh wait, scratch that, FFX was quite good.

FFX was the last one made before the creators left so thats why :D

-Seraph-:
The fact that the final fanrtasy series is constantly being reinvented shows that it's always changing. It doesn't need saving because it's practically a self sustaining trademark, the name alone brings in the money. Anyone who complains about Final Fantasy not needing change needs to replay the games and reanalize themselves as a fan.

Have you EVER played FFT or FF6?

I agree, the FF series does not need saving. Tweaking, perhaps, but not saving. I am interested in FFXIII and looking forward to seeing what it will bring.

Arsen:

-Seraph-:
The fact that the final fanrtasy series is constantly being reinvented shows that it's always changing. It doesn't need saving because it's practically a self sustaining trademark, the name alone brings in the money. Anyone who complains about Final Fantasy not needing change needs to replay the games and reanalize themselves as a fan.

Have you EVER played FFT or FF6?

Yes I have, whats your point. All i am saying is people should't complain about change and that it canbe a real good thing. No other franchise that I know of has reinvented itself so many times.

roblikestoskate:
...constantly evaluate your brand loyalty...

Better yet: never develop one in the first place. It's pretty darn stupid, after all.

-Seraph-:

Arsen:

-Seraph-:
The fact that the final fanrtasy series is constantly being reinvented shows that it's always changing. It doesn't need saving because it's practically a self sustaining trademark, the name alone brings in the money. Anyone who complains about Final Fantasy not needing change needs to replay the games and reanalize themselves as a fan.

Have you EVER played FFT or FF6?

Yes I have, whats your point. All i am saying is people should't complain about change and that it canbe a real good thing. No other franchise that I know of has reinvented itself so many times.

What I am saying is that they stuck to certain time periods, therefore becoming more authentic worlds instead of this "let's make some wacky setting" shit Square-Enix has been doing as of late.

This isn't change, this is digression.

Am I going to need to do a fully researched piece to prove that FFXII has a more authentic world than any Final Fantasy other than Tactis (they were designed by the same guy)?

Fine, I guess I'll get to that. Keep a weather eye on the forums children.

I'm also confused as to why people hate FFXII so much. Yeah you 'could' let the gambits do everything for you, but I never did that. It was nice having the other two characters be able to automatically heal/revive someone who died (this was invaluable when doing those harder hunts, like the wyrm in the paramina rift, gilgamesh, or the hell wyrm .. the marathon battles where your mist attacks didn't do enough damage) so that was nice. It was easy to lose the story if you paused for too long and did hunts like I did, but the characters were real, and it didn't have an ending where it forced characters into pairings. People more or less went back to what they were doing before, or found a new purpose.

I enjoyed it. Sure it might not be fantastic in everyone's eyes, but it wasn't a bomb, either. Hell, I even liked Vaan; I understood where he was coming from. He was rather overshadowed by Balthier's charisma and Basch's ...well Basch, but still, the cast worked well and the voice acting is the best I've ever heard in a game.

Going on topic though, I'm with the others who say the series doesn't need saving, but tweeking in various areas. Keep experimenting with the battle system, ease up on the stupid mini-gams and let us EXPLORE. That's what I really liked about FFXII (And KH1) was the ability to explore the worlds we were plopped into. Granted, the Pharos is the worst offender for being too damn long to get through, but ... lots of fun running around exploring the areas.

I like the games. They're about the only games I can consistently play well and finish, so i like them for that. The stories are fascinating no matter what direction they go in and I'll buy the three versions of FFXIII (the main game, Versus, and Agito for the PSP) so .. yeah. Not really going to change my mind on that.

Jeebus. This post got really long ... XD;

Arsen:
If anyone honestly thinks anything past FF9 is worthy to stand next to the previous titles...then they are probably below the age of sixteen, love J-Pop Anime, or were introduced to the FF series from anything past 9, or have exceptionally horrible taste in story structure, mood, and plot development.

This is not a good avenue for the series to take, it lacks the straightforward Good versus Evil aspect that made the others so prevelant. Not too mention the characters all look like they've just stepped out of some ecstacy ridden rave concert with the pacifiers in their mouths.

Apologies for enjoying a video game. I'll be sure to talk to you the next time I decide I want to have fun.

Save? It needs saving? Sorry, but please point me to a link or even a magazine that says that the series is on a sucking spree. Also, the official definition of a recession is two consecutive quarters of negative growth.

The other thing I'd also say is

They changed it, now it sucks

is a fucking annoying attitude which is the polar opposite of inovation.

Bob_F_It:
Save? It needs saving? Sorry, but please point me to a link or even a magazine that says that the series is on a sucking spree. Also, the official definition of a recession is two consecutive quarters of negative growth.

The other thing I'd also say is

They changed it, now it sucks

is a fucking annoying attitude which is the polar opposite of inovation.

It's one thing if you keep the essential elements which made the series good in the first place, but this isn't innovation it's quantity over quality. Now we have an entire generation of kids growing up that don't even know the origins to the series and if they do, they rarely consider it to the be the pinnacle of the series.

Sorry, but just because it is "new" and what you consider innovation doesn't automatically qualify it for the term. Many, many fans have left the games that were fans of previous installments due to these lack of elements, lack of solid architecture within the worlds, etc.

Face it, they are lesser forms of the series. Compare anything past 8 to FFT, FF6, and FF7. You will see a MAJOR drop in quality.

All they need to do is fix the battle system and write a better story. The fundamentals of the game are fine and always will be.

A little less androgyny would be nice. XII is by far the worst offender for this. I'm not asking for all the men to be gigantic mountains of muscle or for the women to all have gigantic chests that are guaranteed to cause their spines to give out in about five years and dress like prostitutes. I'm just asking for characters that people can relate to that look, dare I say it, some what normal. I find it hard believe that almost every male in Japan looks like they could be mistaken for a female by an observer who isn't intoxicated.

Note: This does not apply to the animal-like humanoid characters, I doubt most people consider a six foot six walking female rabbit human a normal sight.