Hey.

Okay, so I like Left 4 Dead. I like it quite a bit. That having been said, I feel like there are some fundamental flaws in the idea behind the game that take away from what it could and should be.
Being that I'm a huge zombiephile I was really hoping for the quientessential zombie film experience when I heard about L4D, but it has left me wanting.
Then again, maybe I'm missing the point, maybe L4D is not supposed to be quite what I was hoping for. Maybe this is another game to be made another time.

In any case, this is what I felt like really missed the mark in L4D:
1) I don't feel rushed. I feel like if my group and I take down most of the zombies in an area we can chill for a few minutes, heal, plan, clear corners and nooks and crannies, etc. without having to worry too much about any more zombies turning up. The whole point of zombie movies is that there is no such thing as "safe." You should never feel as though you are safe. The Resident Evil Series was awesome in this respect, at least on the first time through. You never knew quite what to expect. A zombie video game should have the players running from one end of the stage to another with zombies constantly on their heels.

2) These are zombies. They should be EATING me. Not kicking me while I'm down like a bunch of angry gang bangers. In the movies, zombies eat people. That's their joi de vivre, their raison d'etre. So, why do these zombies live to kick me? it makes no goddamned sense.

3) Again, zombies. A single bullet to the head and ONLY a single bullet to the head should take them down. Nothing more, nothing less. So why can several shots to any part of the body take these guys out? Apart from, that is, the developer's backpedaling story revisions that cite some mutated form of rabies as the culprit.

So, this all leads to the burning question: Is it possible to create a zombie game that accurately represents what we have all experienced in the movies? I think it is possible, but not without a great endeavor by a developer to change the formula by which they make their games. In a perfect zombie movie scenario the players would have to constantly stay on the move, firing at zombies only when they feel they must and seeking out the elusive headshot. Failing to connect with the bullet to the head would only necessitate further running.

If L4D had these elements, I would be playing right now instead of thinking of a better zombie game. Not that L4D is bad; as I said, I like it quite a bit. It's just not complete. On a less critical note, it does need some more levels and a patch or two to fix some issues, like parts of stages that can be skipped entirely.

Thoughts?

You said what was in the back of my mind during my first play through.

i overlooked the other issues except for #2. The whole kicking and clawing thing REALLY doesn't make sense.

1: If you dwadle, steadily increasing hoards will show up randomly

2: They aren't traditional undead zombies, they're 28 days later zombies. They're infected with some crazy violent virus (ostensibly a form of rabies), and thus can be killed like anything else, they just don't feel pain.

3: See 2

I understand where you're coming from, but I think that you're missing the point.

To answer your questions sequentially:

1. I've played on all difficulty levels, and when I play on Elite, I never feel safe. I'm always looking over my shoulder, making sure that nothing is sneaking up behind me. (Both in game and in real life...I'm a big wuss.) Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't the "AI Director" release zombies taking into consideration how you're performing on that specific difficulty level?

2. I think that's more of an artistic choice than anything. Zombies are different depending on who you talk to, and perhaps the creative minds at Valve felt that Zombies would include some physical torment before they disembowled you?

3. I'd be kinda upset if it was a sort of "one shot, one kill" deal, since I'm pretty decent at head shots already. Think about it, if you've been playing FPS's for any number of years, how often do you get head shots? I enjoy the fact that it takes multiple rounds to take a single zombie down.

Personally, I think that this game has represented my emotions and experiences during zombie flics. I'm tense, I'm edgy, I'm scared, and, in some moments, I've even squeeled a little (much to the dismay of my gf). Perhaps looking at the game in a different light will help you realize all of the great qualities that this game has to offer :)

Oh, my only complaint with the game is that it needs more campaigns!

If it's a form of rabies, how come zombies can take multiple rounds to the heart without dieing? And if it's not, why would chest shots kill them?

I swear that they are infected not necessarily Zombies... Hence the whole Special Infected thing.
In general though i do agree with what you're saying... i was showing my dad how exciting the game gets and as i was doing the last level on Dead Air i used all my bullets in my clip and all the zombies were dead giving me enough time to reload... that is not fun, thats Overpowered.

What difficulty are you playing on?

Try playing expert. Call me when your crying and a tank is raping your ass.

Metalgamer81:
1) I don't feel rushed.

You should. Good players will try to rush because they realize the longer they sit around the more waves the Director is going to send after them, and this depletes health and ammo. Also, when it comes to the end game extraction, the zombies will overwhelm you if you wait for long.

2) These are zombies. They should be EATING me. Not kicking me while I'm down like a bunch of angry gang bangers. In the movies, zombies eat people. That's their joi de vivre, their raison d'etre. So, why do these zombies live to kick me? it makes no goddamned sense.

There's no universal interpretation of zombie that says they have to be trying to eat you all the time. Valve took the high ground here by going for a different interpretation of being "infectious, maddened zombies" instead of the usual "shambling dead that eats brains."

3) Again, zombies. A single bullet to the head and ONLY a single bullet to the head should take them down.

It can, especially if you catch them unawares. At least, with most weapons. I recall being able to do this consistantly with an M16 or even pistol (which actually has pretty good firepower) on higher difficulties. Maybe the uzi or an inaccurate shotgun burst can't do this.

I'm not a Valve fanboy, but these things strike me as some pretty irrational complaints. You're entitled to your opinion, but if you're quoting them as law you're way off base.

Yeah number 2 annoys me.

Well, in my opinion, zombie movies are more about the suspense that would make a game much less fun to play.

As for your three points:

1) Have you tried playing on Expert? Where the swarms come often and kill very easily? That will make you feel rushed.

2) Yes, I agree that the first time I saw a zombie kicking me while I was lying on the ground I thought "What the hell, he's kicking me? Not biting me?"

3) They aren't actually zombies according to the game lore. They're people who have been infected by a mutated strain of rabies, so several body shots would put them down.

I'm assuming they didn't make an effect of zombies bending over and ripping your flesh out because it would make it vastly harder for your teammates to clear them off you without the risk of blowing you to kingdom come, because when they stand kicking you your teammates can easily unload a round in the general direction and save you. Also you'd then be asking the question of why you don't turn into a zombie also when you finally die.

TsunamiWombat:
1: If you dwadle, steadily increasing hoards will show up randomly

2: They aren't traditional undead zombies, they're 28 days later zombies. They're infected with some crazy violent virus (ostensibly a form of rabies), and thus can be killed like anything else, they just don't feel pain.

3: See 2

No point in me retyping what TsunamiWombat said.
Though i'm sure i've seen this topic before.

I can only agree with you on 2, but explaining why would merely be a repeat of what everyone else has said. My main gripe was that at times the AI of the survivors can feel really dull and pathetic at times. I managed to play with 3 of my friends on it last night, as the game is clearly meant to be played and the experience was greatly enhanced.

A smaller, minor complaint is that while i applaud the fact that valve threw you into the game with little explanation of what the hell was going on, like it would in a real zombie apocalypse; I didn't feel I was truly a survivor. I don't know if Valve intentionally gave little info on the characters to allow you to fill in the backstory but i didn't feel exactly like I part of the survivors.

Still it's easy to overlook those issues while playing with friends and it's still the best Zombie game I have ever played.

RE Part 1: Play on Expert you wuss!

No wonder why you don't like it. you play on easy and you think they're zombies.

They are not zombies, they are infected people with a virus, and they shouldn't eat you because they're not zombies.

I will tell you that repeatedly until you get it in your head.

They're not zombies.
They're not zombies.
They're not zombies.
They're not zombies.

TsunamiWombat:
1: If you dwadle, steadily increasing hoards will show up randomly

2: They aren't traditional undead zombies, they're 28 days later zombies. They're infected with some crazy violent virus (ostensibly a form of rabies), and thus can be killed like anything else, they just don't feel pain.

3: See 2

This. They're not called Zombies, as such, they'e called Infected. And whilst they have plenty of zombie characteristics, they are more like the 28 Days Later Infected. They're angry, and fast.

If there were a shit-ton more of them, and much slower, then there'd need to be more of them to be a challenge. To the point where a lot of computers would have serious lag issues.

In resopnse to point 1. You don't feel that way in multiplayer. The other players are getting much better, and know how to keep the pressure on you constantly. Often these days stopping to make use of the spare medkit you just found is not worth it.

My only complaint about this game is it needs more vs campaigns.

Metalgamer81:

In any case, this is what I felt like really missed the mark in L4D:
1) I don't feel rushed. I feel like if my group and I take down most of the zombies in an area we can chill for a few minutes, heal, plan, clear corners and nooks and crannies, etc. without having to worry too much about any more zombies turning up. The whole point of zombie movies is that there is no such thing as "safe." You should never feel as though you are safe. The Resident Evil Series was awesome in this respect, at least on the first time through. You never knew quite what to expect. A zombie video game should have the players running from one end of the stage to another with zombies constantly on their heels.

This isn't true. If you hang around, more zombies will attack.

Metalgamer81:

2) These are zombies. They should be EATING me. Not kicking me while I'm down like a bunch of angry gang bangers. In the movies, zombies eat people. That's their joi de vivre, their raison d'etre. So, why do these zombies live to kick me? it makes no goddamned sense.

If they ate you then there would be no way for you to realistically revive. Eating people is great, however, I'm sure you can understand their reasoning for "less permanent" damage.

Metalgamer81:

3) Again, zombies. A single bullet to the head and ONLY a single bullet to the head should take them down. Nothing more, nothing less. So why can several shots to any part of the body take these guys out? Apart from, that is, the developer's backpedaling story revisions that cite some mutated form of rabies as the culprit.

Can you imagine a game where you are attacked by 100 enemies at once and can only take them out with a well aimed headshot? That would be frustratingly difficult if not impossible. Think about it.

In the end, your final point is the best. Can we make a game that can use traditional zombie mechanics from film? I doubt it. Video game zombies don't have to fall into that mechanic though. The "rules" of zombies came about for a variety of reasons. Mainly, because those rules dictated the most enjoyable (and do-able) scenes in early horror cinema. It is in that same practical tradition that video games are defining their own rule sets. Developers need to take certain liberties to make the game playable and enjoyable. Take each game for its self-value and enjoyment factor without comparing each component to a broader set of "laws" governed by the subject's depiction in a separate media form.

When they would eat you, you wouldn't regenerate.
If your health wouldn't regenerate, the game would suck.

mokes310:
I understand where you're coming from, but I think that you're missing the point.

To answer your questions sequentially:

1. I've played on all difficulty levels, and when I play on Elite, I never feel safe. I'm always looking over my shoulder, making sure that nothing is sneaking up behind me. (Both in game and in real life...I'm a big wuss.) Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't the "AI Director" release zombies taking into consideration how you're performing on that specific difficulty level?

2. I think that's more of an artistic choice than anything. Zombies are different depending on who you talk to, and perhaps the creative minds at Valve felt that Zombies would include some physical torment before they disembowled you?

3. I'd be kinda upset if it was a sort of "one shot, one kill" deal, since I'm pretty decent at head shots already. Think about it, if you've been playing FPS's for any number of years, how often do you get head shots? I enjoy the fact that it takes multiple rounds to take a single zombie down.

Personally, I think that this game has represented my emotions and experiences during zombie flics. I'm tense, I'm edgy, I'm scared, and, in some moments, I've even squeeled a little (much to the dismay of my gf). Perhaps looking at the game in a different light will help you realize all of the great qualities that this game has to offer :)

Oh, my only complaint with the game is that it needs more campaigns!

My only complaint is there isn't enough vs campaigns.

geldonyetich:

Metalgamer81:
1) I don't feel rushed.

You should. Good players will try to rush because they realize the longer they sit around the more waves the Director is going to send after them, and this depletes health and ammo. Also, when it comes to the end game extraction, the zombies will overwhelm you if you wait for long.

2) These are zombies. They should be EATING me. Not kicking me while I'm down like a bunch of angry gang bangers. In the movies, zombies eat people. That's their joi de vivre, their raison d'etre. So, why do these zombies live to kick me? it makes no goddamned sense.

There's no universal interpretation of zombie that says they have to be trying to eat you all the time. Valve took the high ground here by going for a different interpretation of being "infectious, maddened zombies" instead of the usual "shambling dead that eats brains."

3) Again, zombies. A single bullet to the head and ONLY a single bullet to the head should take them down.

It can, especially if you catch them unawares. At least, with most weapons. I recall being able to do this consistantly with an M16 or even pistol (which actually has pretty good firepower) on higher difficulties. Maybe the uzi or an inaccurate shotgun burst can't do this.

I'm not a Valve fanboy, but these things strike me as some pretty irrational complaints. You're entitled to your opinion, but if you're quoting them as law you're way off base.

This is the "Resident Evil" method.
You assume that if Resident Evil does it,by Resident Evil law they are all gonna act the same.
But yeah.
1. Play on Expert,like everyone else said, add in a few Teammates who are trigger happy and scared,and your gonna rush.
2. They are Infected...not Zombies...
3. They are Infected...not Zombies...

JimmyBassatti:

3. They are Infected...not Zombies...

So why can they take multiple machine gun rounds to the heart without dieing? I know very few sick people that can accomplish this.

Addressing point two; what would a true zombie game be like? Possibly very frustrating. You have to score a headshot every time, and one bite, one bite would spell your end. Though then there's also the fact "True" zombies would move at a shambling pace, thus sort of eliminating the whole "action" feel of it all. I think Valve had no other choice but to make 28 Days Later fast zombies. That is, "Infected".

Metalgamer81:

1) I don't feel rushed.

Play it on expert. You take too long, you die. You rush, you die. You go carefully and quickly, most of the time yo die but sometimes you can pull it off.

2) These are zombies. They should be EATING me.

The fact zombies are cannibals is only really because one of the producers on Night of the Living Dead was a butcher and had access to a lot of, past its sell-by date, meat. Zombies are threatening because it's the whole world against you and there's lots of them. The eating you is just an extra. It would be very difficult to animate biting attacks to look right when charged.

3) Again, zombies. A single bullet to the head and ONLY a single bullet to the head should take them down. Nothing more, nothing less. So why can several shots to any part of the body take these guys out? Apart from, that is, the developer's backpedaling story revisions that cite some mutated form of rabies as the culprit.

Back pedalling story? Story? The first thing you see after the valve symbol is "Two Week After Infection". How about Return of the Living Dead zombies which are complete killable without burning them alive or otherwise completely destroying their bodies? Or 28 Days Later - that's the film the games most closely imitate.

GenHellspawn:

JimmyBassatti:

3. They are Infected...not Zombies...

So why can they take multiple machine gun rounds to the heart without dieing? I know very few sick people that can accomplish this.

They are Infected...not Zombies...
What difficulty are you playing on?

JimmyBassatti:

What difficulty are you playing on?

Why does it matter? If they were zombies, only headshots would kill them. If they weren't (you seem awfully confident about this, do you work for Valve?), several shots to the heart would kill them, which it doesn't (unless your playing on easy/normal, but who does that?).

GenHellspawn:

JimmyBassatti:

What difficulty are you playing on?

Why does it matter? If they were zombies, only headshots would kill them. If they weren't (you seem awfully confident about this, do you work for Valve?), several shots to the heart would kill them, which it doesn't (unless your playing on easy/normal, but who does that?).

Damn it! They figured us out Reggie!
Throw an EMP in their house...our standard issue Valve EMPs. Damn it! I revealed more secrets! -as Valve tortures me for my mistakes-
I'm...sorry...Gabe Newell!
But back onto the subject.
I play on Easy/Normal xD
But I see your point,and I don't know how to answer that...so I enlighten you with Elevator Music :D

1. If they constantly threw zombie after zombie at you you'd get what is called battle fatigue. Valve are the masters of game pacing, throwing enough enemys at you to keep you exctied, while steming the flow so you don't just get tired and fustrated. Anyway, if your stay somewhere for too long, they throw more zombies. You have just enough time to heal up and have a little look around, no more, no less.

2. This does kind of irratate me actually. They should be sinking there teath into me, not stomping on my face. But still, they're not traditional zombies, they're more 28 days later zombies, but even there the zombies bite you. It makes them seem less human, more animal. Still, its only a minor thing.

3. Because once again, it'd get irrataiting. You may get more satisfation from hitting them in the head, but if you had to hit them there all the time, I now I'd be pissed.

GenHellspawn:

JimmyBassatti:

3. They are Infected...not Zombies...

So why can they take multiple machine gun rounds to the heart without dieing? I know very few sick people that can accomplish this.

Perhaps the infection has given them some sort of huge adrenal boost... Something like PCP can make someone carry on attacking even with broken bones (allegedly), and we have no idea what the infection is - although I'll wager it isn't flu or a nasty head cold.

hypercube:

GenHellspawn:

JimmyBassatti:

3. They are Infected...not Zombies...

So why can they take multiple machine gun rounds to the heart without dieing? I know very few sick people that can accomplish this.

Perhaps the infection has given them some sort of huge adrenal boost... Something like PCP can make someone carry on attacking even with broken bones (allegedly), and we have no idea what the infection is - although I'll wager it isn't flu or a nasty head cold.

I can still live with broken bones, without a dose of PCP. I can not, however, live without a functioning heart, no matter how many drugs I take.

Richard Groovy Pants:

But I don't get it, did you met a zombie that didn't took a few bullets to the torso to kill them? I actually counted and it takes 3 pistol bullets (to the torso) to down a horde zombie.
.

First of all, THEY'RE INFECTED NOT ZOMBIES ZOMFG!!!?!
Second, I once shot one of them five times in the heart and other than recoiling from my shots, it seemed to be perfectly fine.