GenHellspawn:

hypercube:

GenHellspawn:

JimmyBassatti:

3. They are Infected...not Zombies...

So why can they take multiple machine gun rounds to the heart without dieing? I know very few sick people that can accomplish this.

Perhaps the infection has given them some sort of huge adrenal boost... Something like PCP can make someone carry on attacking even with broken bones (allegedly), and we have no idea what the infection is - although I'll wager it isn't flu or a nasty head cold.

I can still live with broken bones, without a dose of PCP. I can not, however, live without a functioning heart, no matter how many drugs I take.

Judging from the greyness of their skin, I'd say that their blood flow isn't all that healthy to begin with.

GenHellspawn:

hypercube:

GenHellspawn:

JimmyBassatti:

3. They are Infected...not Zombies...

So why can they take multiple machine gun rounds to the heart without dieing? I know very few sick people that can accomplish this.

Perhaps the infection has given them some sort of huge adrenal boost... Something like PCP can make someone carry on attacking even with broken bones (allegedly), and we have no idea what the infection is - although I'll wager it isn't flu or a nasty head cold.

I can still live with broken bones, without a dose of PCP. I can not, however, live without a functioning heart, no matter how many drugs I take.

OK, maybe not a good analogy (although I'd still like to see you walk on broken ankles without a dose of PCP!), but we have no idea what sort of effect the infection is having on the 'normal' infected. I mean, look at the mutations it has created in the Boomer, Smoker and Tank - but no one has questioned their authenticity.

Perhaps the infection has given the normal looking infected some sort of thickened or ossified tissue around the heart, thus taking more damage than a normal human? Maybe their clotting agents are now fantastically efficient, which means they need an awful lot more trauma to cause death than you. Perhaps they need less blood in their bodies now, due to some change in the metabolism of their cells... Maybe they have distributed hearts?

Basically, it's a game, and if you're enjoying playing it, I think there's more than enough 'Left 2 Imagination' to make it interesting. I don't think anyone expects Valve to give us a long breakdown of the biological changes the infection causes in people (although the diagrams might be very cool!).

1) Well, if you played the game on Expert, you will ALWAYS be rushed. I mean, there were points when we went to pick up ammo, but even when we were, there were 10,000 zombies coming around the corner.

2) It's a game. If the zombies ate you, then you would be down on your first try. Yes, that adds a dimension of terror to the game, but it also makes it much harder.

3) Think about this for a minute. 100 million zombies. Only way to kill them is shooting their head. Sometimes, games have to risk making the game "accurate" for making it possible. Either way, have you ever seen 2 zombie movies exactly the same? Have you played two zombie games the same exact way? There have been so many zombie movies, I think it's good to have a new take on zombies. Some people use their imagination.

Realism does not = fun.

Richard Groovy Pants:
3) A single bullet DOES stop them. At least the horde ones, you're not expecting to kill a mutated, full of tumours Tank with a bullet to the head are you?

Dude, I have trouble finding the Tank's head when it's charging at me.

As for why they don't eat you, not only are they NOT ZOMBIES, but you couldn't be revived if they ripped out your ribcage and devoured your steaming entrails, ripped fresh from your corpse as you scream on the ground until one bites out your throat.

And as the above mental image shows you, if they did, the game would be AO.

TsunamiWombat:
1: If you dwadle, steadily increasing hoards will show up randomly

2: They aren't traditional undead zombies, they're 28 days later zombies. They're infected with some crazy violent virus (ostensibly a form of rabies), and thus can be killed like anything else, they just don't feel pain.

3: See 2

2&3: I get that, but only in so far as accepting it as a flimsy explanation for why the game failed to capture the quinetessential zombie experience. 28 Days Later was awesome, but it was only one movie out of countless hundreds. Why base your zombies on 28 days later? Because using Romero zombies in a game would be too hard. I want to see a good Romero zombie game.

True, it's not a real zombie game when you nitpick through it. However, if you go through the developer comments they adress why these changes occurred. Basically, most of the things you are complaining about were done to service the playability of the game.

GenHellspawn:

JimmyBassatti:

What difficulty are you playing on?

Why does it matter? If they were zombies, only headshots would kill them. If they weren't (you seem awfully confident about this, do you work for Valve?), several shots to the heart would kill them, which it doesn't (unless your playing on easy/normal, but who does that?).

Because it's a video game you twat, and to realisticly rebuild a human body virtually would take a fucking supercomputer.

SolidJohnny:
No wonder why you don't like it. you play on easy and you think they're zombies.

They are not zombies, they are infected people with a virus, and they shouldn't eat you because they're not zombies.

I will tell you that repeatedly until you get it in your head.

They're not zombies.
They're not zombies.
They're not zombies.
They're not zombies.

Not zombies, eh?

Then why does the back of the box read "Four survivors in an epic struggle... fighting HORDES of SWARMING ZOMBIES." Why does Zoey say "Oh no... the Zombies killed GOD!" during the Dead Air campaign?

way to troll.

Anyway, in spite of the fact that SolidJohnny seems to think that zombies aren't zombies, a lot of good points are brought up in this thread. The fact is that L4D is a really fun game and while it is difficult if not impossible to put the more classic interpretation of "zombie" into a game it would still be cool.

I have to disagree with some of you that say that the whole idea of zombies eating people is not necessarily typical of the archetype, but that's only because Romero has been imitated so much that it has become the accepted ideal.

Moving along, I find the game to be too easy on normal but advanced is remarkably better in terms of making me feel like I have to keep moving. Once I learn to control my FF I'll have to have a go at expert.

GenHellspawn:

JimmyBassatti:

3. They are Infected...not Zombies...

So why can they take multiple machine gun rounds to the heart without dieing? I know very few sick people that can accomplish this.

People on PCP can take several rounds of a 9mm before going down. You'd be surprised what a person can do when they don't feel pain.

Last time I checked, there was no such thing as a zombie, so I think Valve can do whatever they like with the zombie formula when they make a game.

GuerrillaClock:
Last time I checked, there was no such thing as a zombie, so I think Valve can do whatever they like with the zombie formula when they make a game.

Were there a prize you would win it.

Aries_Split:
Because it's a video game you twat, and to realisticly rebuild a human body virtually would take a fucking supercomputer.

Why would they need to do that? It's just damage allocation.

Does it really matter?

GenHellspawn:

hypercube:

GenHellspawn:

JimmyBassatti:

3. They are Infected...not Zombies...

So why can they take multiple machine gun rounds to the heart without dieing? I know very few sick people that can accomplish this.

Perhaps the infection has given them some sort of huge adrenal boost... Something like PCP can make someone carry on attacking even with broken bones (allegedly), and we have no idea what the infection is - although I'll wager it isn't flu or a nasty head cold.

I can still live with broken bones, without a dose of PCP. I can not, however, live without a functioning heart, no matter how many drugs I take.

You're playing a game that is about a massive infection that has turned the entire population of Where-Ever-The-Hell-We-Are-City into psychotic monsters whose primary goal is to kill you because you're not one of them. Why the hell are you concerned with realism? Maybe the virus turns them into Time Lords and they get two hearts. Maybe everyone has bulletproof hearts. Does it really matter? Shut up and shoot the bastards.

I did think it was too easy. There is no difficulty curve. I didn't like it how you encounter all of the zombie types within the first 20 minutes or so. There's not much surprise that way.
Also, a story would've made me feel like I was actually accomplishing something. I rented L4D and I got sick of it and started playing Half Life 2, a much better shooter made by Valve.

Metalgamer81:

3) Again, zombies. A single bullet to the head and ONLY a single bullet to the head should take them down. Nothing more, nothing less. So why can several shots to any part of the body take these guys out? Apart from, that is, the developer's backpedaling story revisions that cite some mutated form of rabies as the culprit.

http://theslackerz.com/index.php?nav=Comic&Page=87

sequio:
i overlooked the other issues except for #2. The whole kicking and clawing thing REALLY doesn't make sense.

ya ove never seen a zombie kick someone

Valve created the game, Valve can decide the law. If they don't want Zombies to shuffle, they don't. If they don't want Zombies to bite people, they don't.

It's like when people stopped having vampires unable to cross running water and hate garlic, because it caused to many problems, or didn't fit what they wanted. There not real. Its not like "Errr, why do the survivors have three legs?", "Its my game, I decide how many legs humans have!" Zombies don't exist, so they can do what they want.

GuerrillaClock:
Last time I checked, there was no such thing as a zombie, so I think Valve can do whatever they like with the zombie formula when they make a game.

And this innocent mistake by GuerrillaClock is exactly why the OP is wrong to assume he knows what a zombie should be like.

There is such a thing as a zombie. They don't bite, they don't fight, they barely even make a sound. They're people with brain damage caused by oxygen deprivation. Why should people decide that any particular type of violent humanoid makes a better 'zombie' than a real one?

Okay, so popular culture has developed this new archetype of a cannibalistic human corpse, infected with some sort of contagion which they spread almost on contact.

You know where you'll find the first zombie biting somebody? It's in a short story written by H.P. Lovecraft in 1921, 'Herbert West–Reanimator'. The first shambolic, mindless infected human that infects others? A book written by H.G. Wells and published in 1933, 'The Shape of Things to Come'.

Saying that the only valid zombie is a shambling, reanimated corpse, craving flesh, capable of infecting others on contact and only killable by the destruction of the brain is an incredibly narrowminded point of view, which ignores all sources that don't fit the concept, including Romero's masterpiece (and I don't deny it's a masterpiece), where the zombies simply rose from the dead, without any other zombies having to be involved.

GenHellspawn:

JimmyBassatti:

3. They are Infected...not Zombies...

So why can they take multiple machine gun rounds to the heart without dieing? I know very few sick people that can accomplish this.

more to the point man, how can YOU survive shots to the heart without dieing?

GenHellspawn:
If it's a form of rabies, how come zombies can take multiple rounds to the heart without dieing? And if it's not, why would chest shots kill them?

How do you know it hit them in the heart? How do you know it didn't ricochet of a rib and hit something less important? Besides, if they don't feel pain, they won't be affected until everything stops working.

You may be safe in one area, but if you bactrack there will be zombies, and if you stay too long, a few specials will spawn. Being rushed my be fun to you, but not others, and Valve always tests their games thoroughly.

Having to shoot the zombies in the head and only the head would be a pain, especially in games liek L4D. Yeah, sure it's easy but when the horde comes, it gets more difficult. And when your friend is pinned down and surrounded by the horde, it's even worse.

It's kinda hard to had zombies nibble on your then continue to fight them. I guess the zombies like to kill their pray first. Or maybe they don't want to eat you, just kill you.

Yes you should be rushed a little bit more, but the zombies won't always know where you are. Having to shoot every last one in the head would get old, frustrating, and downright stupid fast. I'm sure companies planned on forcing the player to shoot the zombie in the head, and head only, but during testing they foud that people didn't like it.

It's hard to show zombies eating people, and the chunks being taken out of them. And after that people would be asking how their character is still fighting after they were half eaten!

These elements are left out because it makes the game hard to make and hard to play, and I'm glad they left them out.

Why the heck are we talking about realism in left 4 dead.

If we are playing humans, how come they can survive their face being clawed off? or when they die there just happens to be another one in a cupboard which opens with a simple twist? or a first aid kit can magically repair broken bones, savage gashes, and near-death bleeding out, restoring you to full health instantly? Ready to take on any horde?

Because it's a GAME. Why has no one else said this?

I find it hilarious that we are arguing about the realism of a zombie/infected apocalypse. wow.

Richard Groovy Pants:
Games prioritize fun over realism.

Precisely so. As realism approaches infinity and fun approaches zero, the game ceases to be a game and becomes real life, which undermines the fundamental purpose of a game.

mokes310:
I understand where you're coming from, but I think that you're missing the point.

To answer your questions sequentially:

1. I've played on all difficulty levels, and when I play on Elite, I never feel safe. I'm always looking over my shoulder, making sure that nothing is sneaking up behind me. (Both in game and in real life...I'm a big wuss.) Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't the "AI Director" release zombies taking into consideration how you're performing on that specific difficulty level?

2. I think that's more of an artistic choice than anything. Zombies are different depending on who you talk to, and perhaps the creative minds at Valve felt that Zombies would include some physical torment before they disembowled you?

3. I'd be kinda upset if it was a sort of "one shot, one kill" deal, since I'm pretty decent at head shots already. Think about it, if you've been playing FPS's for any number of years, how often do you get head shots? I enjoy the fact that it takes multiple rounds to take a single zombie down.

Personally, I think that this game has represented my emotions and experiences during zombie flics. I'm tense, I'm edgy, I'm scared, and, in some moments, I've even squeeled a little (much to the dismay of my gf). Perhaps looking at the game in a different light will help you realize all of the great qualities that this game has to offer :)

Oh, my only complaint with the game is that it needs more campaigns!

Pretty much sums up my thoughts.

Also, if you're not scared, then you're definitely not playing on elite or even advanced depending on who you're playing with.

Metalgamer81:

If you honestly think that the regular game is too easy, play on Expert. It's not ludicrously hard, but it's challenging enough that you'll constantly feel the pressure. Even after fighting off one horde, you wouldn't want to dawdle too long lest the AI Director gets bored and spawns another. And in Expert, even a small mass of regular infected can deal a lot of damage.

A simple change like "infected hit harder" can turn a leisurely stroll (L4D Regular mode) into an honest-to-goodness fight for survival. The people in this thread are not lying when they say it addresses your first point rather well. It can also nab you some Achievements, and everybody loves an Achievement. (See: Obsessive Badge-hunters here.) The other two are a matter of taste, but I can see where you're getting at with them.

Also, if you have been playing Expert this entire time and you still think the game's too easy, then I pity anyone who attempts to play Versus against you.

Well obviously, these are not your traditional zombies - and Zoey even makes a joke about that in the elevator of Mercy Hospital.

If you always feel "safe" - play expert - it's the only difficulty I like.

Also, they should be biting you, but, the survivors you play as are immune to infection, so they don't get infected anyway - so the closest you'll get to being eaten is the hunter pounce.

and last but not least - DON'T FUCK WITH THE FUCKING WITCH!

EDIT: Also, tier one weapons suck against infected on expert, but the tier 2 weapons still own.

TsunamiWombat:
What difficulty are you playing on?

Try playing expert. Call me when your crying and a tank is raping your ass.

"Hey mom, I'm in prison."

The thing I was most disappointed about was the lack of any choice to be stealthy. Sure it's possible to 'sneak' around a witch, but I want a gun with a silencer, and my team hiding in the shadows of every room, covertly capping zombies, trying not to alarm the horde. I love the epic zombie battles at every turn, don't get me wrong, but being able to avoid such situation gives another type of satisfied feeling. Maybe someone will do a Sam Fisher meets Left 4 Dead mod or something.

I don't understand how people are so rigid about the zombie concept. 28 Days Later rejuvenated zombie movies by depicting zombies as extremely fast, rather than shuffling corpses like in all other zombie movies, which frankly was wearing thin.

Nothing wrong with a little experimentation now and then, I think.

I just don't understand why everyone wants L4D to be as close to zombie movies as possible. Why not move away from copying the movie industry and focus on interactivity, which L4D does very well.

The teammate aspect brings something really unique to the idea of multiplayer, and I find the most intense games to be more immersive than the best zombie movies.

I kind of wish the Finale wasn't so predictable. Two mobs of enemies and Two tanks, then run for the boat/heli/what have you.

But really, this is nitpicking on my part. I love the game.

spazzattack:

TsunamiWombat:
What difficulty are you playing on?

Try playing expert. Call me when your crying and a tank is raping your ass.

"Hey mom, I'm in prison."

The thing I was most disappointed about was the lack of any choice to be stealthy. Sure it's possible to 'sneak' around a witch, but I want a gun with a silencer, and my team hiding in the shadows of every room, covertly capping zombies, trying not to alarm the horde. I love the epic zombie battles at every turn, don't get me wrong, but being able to avoid such situation gives another type of satisfied feeling. Maybe someone will do a Sam Fisher meets Left 4 Dead mod or something.

Stealth does play a small part. Leaving your flashlights on causes the hoard to ambush you. It's why zombies always attack you from a flank- flashlights off, they'll run right infront of you.

uhhhh the one flaw in your entire statement was that they ARE NOT zombies they are infected not braindead zombies if u checked the left 4 dead sight and read up on it a tiny bit you would know this and wouldent be complaining now