Metalgamer81:

3) Again, zombies. A single bullet to the head and ONLY a single bullet to the head should take them down. Nothing more, nothing less. So why can several shots to any part of the body take these guys out? Apart from, that is, the developer's backpedaling story revisions that cite some mutated form of rabies as the culprit.

You can sever the spine too, so assume one of the bullets to the chest did that. Rotting flesh isn't that strong...

the "zombies" in Left 4 Dead are not traditional zombies. They are "rage zombies" otherwise known as infected. Think of it like a human on crack and redbull, whose flesh is rotting and whose only thought is to punch you then curbstomp you til you stop moving.

as for the shoot'em once in the head thing, that would get boring, not to mention insanely frustrating (for those of us who, when being charged by several dozen infected, don't stop and take the time to pop each one individually in the noggin). A headshot works much better than a bodyshot, but they are harder to get. Besides, i think the trauma on the body caused by several rounds from an Uzi, much less a shotgun or Assault Rifle would be enough to make them at the very least stop moving.

Metalgamer81:

3) Again, zombies. A single bullet to the head and ONLY a single bullet to the head should take them down. Nothing more, nothing less. So why can several shots to any part of the body take these guys out? Apart from, that is, the developer's backpedaling story revisions that cite some mutated form of rabies as the culprit.

So, this all leads to the burning question: Is it possible to create a zombie game that accurately represents what we have all experienced in the movies? I think it is possible, but not without a great endeavor by a developer to change the formula by which they make their games. In a perfect zombie movie scenario the players would have to constantly stay on the move, firing at zombies only when they feel they must and seeking out the elusive headshot. Failing to connect with the bullet to the head would only necessitate further running.

Zed fanatic will talk about #2 and #3.
And also about the last bit in the quote.
Okay here goes.
I can completely agree with you on #2 as to why they can't eat you and those other people who say it wouldn't work, well they wouldn't necessarily have to eat you until you died and they could bit you while your surrounded.
As for #3 the movie 28 Days Later is probably where they got their zombies.
And for the last and final bit I have this to say.

Have you heard of Urban Dead? Escapist Magazine did an article about it a while back before I got an account on here but it roughly captures the mood of the zombie apocalypse without the need of an A.I.. You heard me right. Its all controlled by human players so if you do something stupid like forgetting to log out while in a shelter of some sort you'll most likely end up as a recruit at the Battle of Yonkers [Hopefully you'll get that joke].
Here is the link if you want to give it a try.
www.urbandead.com

Yay for the Yonkers/Urban Dead reference!

Really, though, this is more of a 28 Days Later game than a Dawn of the Dead Game. Which is fine, you know! They're both excellent films...

SEe, I am all for trying out new things with zombies, just as I'm fine with trying out new things with vampires or werewolves or robots or whatever. Sometimes they work, see Boss Infected. Sometimes, these new things fail cause they're shitty. See Twilight.

If something new doesn't work, point at it and laugh. As Left for Dead happens to work rather well, I shall point at it and not laugh, but rather go, "Look at that fine game, my good sir."

Also, to the guy who kept complaining about shooting them a bunch in the chest: Which gun are you using and which game are you playing, cause the most I've seen a zombie take is three pistol shots to the chest. Any more than that, and they drop. Sure, some of them keep *trying* to get at you, but their bodies are stressed beyond their breaking point and they collapse.

Which is part of what makes these zombies scary: Their relentless, fearless desire to KILL YOUR ASS!

GenHellspawn:

hypercube:

GenHellspawn:

JimmyBassatti:

3. They are Infected...not Zombies...

So why can they take multiple machine gun rounds to the heart without dieing? I know very few sick people that can accomplish this.

Perhaps the infection has given them some sort of huge adrenal boost... Something like PCP can make someone carry on attacking even with broken bones (allegedly), and we have no idea what the infection is - although I'll wager it isn't flu or a nasty head cold.

I can still live with broken bones, without a dose of PCP. I can not, however, live without a functioning heart, no matter how many drugs I take.

Maybe it doesn't go into the heart, or any other vital body parts. Unless you've got a copy of "The Infected: How do they work?" we are just guessing.

1.) The game doesn't enforce people rushing, it however enforces people to constantly push on forward and I believe there's a significant difference between them two.

This is simply bcause the Game Director will always throw hordes at you if you stay at the same spot for too long in the game, and when playing the game - specially on the Highest Difficulty Setting - this will significantly reduce your (and your teammates) chances of survival. That's why you need to push on forward - but not neccesarily rush on forward. This specially happens in a lot of parts and areas of the game where you and your group are leaving yourself wide open for an attack.
Any open area in the game adds significant danger to you since zombies can be coming in all directions which is tremendously difficult to defend yourself against without taking some damage. You cannot bottleneck them when standing in the middle of an open street.

Throw in some boss-zombies (Smokers/Hunters/Boomer etc) into the mix and you got yourself a good enough reason not to hang around watching the real estate unless you like your brain served as a salad.

As for healing, loading up, gtting ammo - I rarely run out of ammo in the game, nor do I need to heal up in any other place than the saferoom in the game, even on Expert. Sometimes I feel that the Game Director gives me ammo whenever I need it so there's not much reason to stand around unless you really have to.

Point is - the game forces you to constantly push on forward because there is simply no reason to stand around. Not neccesarily rush, but push on forward.

3.) Playing the game on the Highest Difficulty Setting, I've rarely seen zombies bite the bullet from one shot. (other than the shotgun and headshots obviously) I am also very very thankful if they sometimes for once did die from one bullet. If you ever played Mega Horde Mode you'd be very thankful that a couple of them go down that easily. The game would be simply way too difficult in my opinion if zombies had to take 20 hits to the chest before dying. There is also the obvious graphical and computer CPU limitation (This is again visible in Mega Horde Mode) of animating hundreds of zombies biting you and aesthetically - they chose to go with the punch/kick method instead.

Well its not surprising that there isn't a zombie game that requires you to always get a headshot to eliminate them.
Think of the gameplay mechanics. If you needed to get a headshot everytime to down a zombie and you're attacked by a horde of lets say 20+ zombies, well you're screwed aren't you?
'Cause they'll be chewing on your colin like its a german sausage long before you land all those shots.

Okay there may be some absolute fanatic who could make all those headshots, but when the game is being made to sell to a mass of people, then things such as headshots only need to be eliminated for the game to be playable by most.

Most of you play on expert(Or so i hope atleast) wich means they are stronger than a regular zombie. Try play on Normal if you want to kill em with 1-3 shots. Altough i don't recommend it because it's utter boring to play on normal.

Besides, there is no ''Zombie-Law'' or anything so the zombies(If they would like to) Could take a diarrhea dump in your ear. As since there is no scientific evidence that there have or does exist beings such as ''Zombies''. If 1000 people tell a lie and say its true, then its still a lie no? You just take what you have seen in movies and probably have experienced in games like Resident Evil.

For #3. There is nothing that says a zombie MUST die if you place a nice shot in they're head and that rest of they're body are almost immune to your shots. You think of zombie as an ''Arisen dead'', but having 5 strong bad a$$ sh*t zombies shambling with the speed of a snail after you is the correct way of expressing a zombie game? People have differen't aspects of seeing things that's why we all ended up here arguing, but there is no proof of a dead shambling guy or an insane pitbull gang member infected with a ''enhanced'' version of rabies so claimming alot of things is just wrong and you should know~

Overall it's a good game and as they said ''There are alot of games that have Co-op added but never really required it that much'' As in this game where there are 2 special infected who once got you in they're grasp your dead. Wich means a fellow survivor must help you. Making it a team work game. Lots of beginners will or should experience that. And by adding 1 or both of these infected it pretty much limits it to ''You are bound to die if you are alone'' And lots of people think they just can rush trough the maps whether its easy or expert as since you are going to a hit or 2 and it will impair your movement speed ALOT wich makes you an easy target for any trespassing infected. :D I agree. This game doesen't give me the chills it should have. I would blame it on the music and darkness. A good mixture of music and setting has alot to say for your ''survivor instincts''. You ever seen a movie (regardless of what one) without music being very interesting?

I would imagine that they are using the 28 Days Later or I am Legend style zombie instead of the traditional. This would explain their incredible speed and rage-like tendencies(To beat on eachother when they can't find any humans, so on and so fourth). So in a sense they are not super-naturally undead, but infected and as such still rely on the major body functions to live.

To those who have been saying that the infected are not zombies "If it looks like a horse, smells like a horse and has a saddle on its back, its a horse". They are zombies. If you make a game with an original monster we would have no problem, but if you make a zombie game and slap a new name on afterwards it will still be a zombie game to us.

Okay I read most of page 1 and I think a loooooot of people missed the point of number 3.

The OP is not saying it should only take one shot to kill them, the OP is saying the infected should be invulnerable except for headshots. Yeah, I know, but that's what he's saying.

Everything else has already been covered, probably what I just said as well.

I'm seriously laughing here at all the people going "fun > realism" What realism? We're talking about how Valve's fiction does not match traditional zombie fiction. Guess what, traditions are broken, it is their unavoidable fate.

hypercube:

Perhaps the infection has given the normal looking infected some sort of thickened or ossified tissue around the heart, thus taking more damage than a normal human? Maybe their clotting agents are now fantastically efficient, which means they need an awful lot more trauma to cause death than you. Perhaps they need less blood in their bodies now, due to some change in the metabolism of their cells... Maybe they have distributed hearts?

I salute your common sense.

Avida:
To those who have been saying that the infected are not zombies "If it looks like a horse, smells like a horse and has a saddle on its back, its a horse". They are zombies.

No, they aren't.

They are infected humans - the difference being that they are alive, they do not have the desire to eat brains, and they seem to retain the same motor functions as...well, a psychotic, enraged human. That, and they attack each other, they seem to rapidly evolve, and they possess no supernatural 'flesh-detector' that your average zombie seems to have.

In the same way that 28 Days Later did not have zombies, neither does this.

I vaguely understand what you are trying to say, but I would say that your point of view is only the case if you played it firmly believing it was a zombie-shooter.

On that same note, I would say the OP's problems lie with their own preconceptions of the game, not the game itself. They were expecting this to be a zombie apocalypse, when it, well, isn't...at all.

Qayin:

Avida:
To those who have been saying that the infected are not zombies "If it looks like a horse, smells like a horse and has a saddle on its back, its a horse". They are zombies.

No, they aren't.

They are infected humans - the difference being that they are alive, they do not have the desire to eat brains, and they seem to retain the same motor functions as...well, a psychotic, enraged human. That, and they attack each other, they seem to rapidly evolve, and they possess no supernatural 'flesh-detector' that your average zombie seems to have.

In the same way that 28 Days Later did not have zombies, neither does this.

I vaguely understand what you are trying to say, but I would say that your point of view is only the case if you played it firmly believing it was a zombie-shooter.

On that same note, I would say the OP's problems lie with their own preconceptions of the game, not the game itself. They were expecting this to be a zombie apocalypse, when it, well, isn't...at all.

You're right, but it'd be real difficult to play that game without the 'zombie-shooter' mindset, before it came out it was always talked about as a zombie game by everyone, including at least 1 developer in the only interview i watched. And after release in game they're reffered to as zombies - "I call zombie bullshit on that" - Zoe, i think during the lift in the hospital.

Infact, in reality, since this is rabies and not reanimation/zombification and these are unarmoured, every shot should be a one hit kill/ incapacitation, that is, if we were to follow realism.

Shot to the chest kills if it hits the heart or punctures the lung, causing extreme discomfort and it would be ALOT harder to breathe (on top of that, tried breating with extreme pain on the chest? Hurts and its hard).

Then theres the rest of the normal hollywood/ common sense of, get shot, it hurts.

Metalgamer81:

2) These are zombies. They should be EATING me. Not kicking me while I'm down like a bunch of angry gang bangers. In the movies, zombies eat people. That's their joi de vivre, their raison d'etre. So, why do these zombies live to kick me? it makes no goddamned sense.

Thoughts?

don't get me wrong, because i agree with you entirely,

but one could propose the idea that instead of the zombies actually being the dead that have come back, they are in a crazed state, sort of like a "super-rabies" sickness like the mutants from I Am Legend which causes them to attack and then kill later.

i haven't played the game all the way through (i play it on my friend's computer and havent finished it) so i don't know what is the actual CAUSE of the zombie apocalypse, or even if it's explained at all, but an explanation which is something other than classic "undead" could explain why the zombies not only eat human flesh but enjoy the thrill of the hunt and the kill.

Avida:
To those who have been saying that the infected are not zombies "If it looks like a horse, smells like a horse and has a saddle on its back, its a horse". They are zombies. If you make a game with an original monster we would have no problem, but if you make a zombie game and slap a new name on afterwards it will still be a zombie game to us.

They're severely wounded looking dudes. Zombiesh, fine. They don't want your brains. Not zombies. They infect you, you become one of them. Zombie, depending on your set of zombie rules. They die from general infliction of damage via gunshot or molotov: Not zombies, because 'zombies' by and large require you to destroy the brain. They're frequently mutating. Not zombies, because zombies as we all know, are just reanimated dead, whether by virus (like RE or Max Brooks's Zombie Survival Guide/WWZ, or cosmic space radiation, like in Night of The Living Dead, Dawn of the Dead, etc. (Interstingly enough, the zombie plague is not passed via bite, but rather death. Upon dying in said universe, the cosmic space radiation brought back to earth from a probe to Venus causes you to get up and start eating other, dead-back-to-life humans.))

tl:dr, they aren't that zombie-ish outside of their general appearance and numbers. Valve called them Infected because they weren't zombies. They're zombie-like. It gives off the atmosphere that you're alone aside from the other few protagonists who are pretty much the only humans alive who don't want to kill you and/or eat you.

Also, stop calling them 28 Days Later zombies. If they were, the game would be called 28 Days Later: The Video Game or something. The general infected are pretty damn similar, but they're not the same thing, y'know?

1) don't play on easy. if you aren't, you should notice that after a while more and more zombies start showing up the longer you sit around.

Metalgamer81:

2) These are zombies. They should be EATING me. Not kicking me while I'm down like a bunch of angry gang bangers. In the movies, zombies eat people. That's their joi de vivre, their raison d'etre. So, why do these zombies live to kick me? it makes no goddamned sense.

good thing this isn't a movie then. actually, come to think of it, not all movies involve "zombies" eating people. on the subject of zombies, you'll notice they're called "infected", not zombies. they may be incredibly similar to zombies, but that's the thing. they aren't.

Avida:
"If it looks like a horse, smells like a horse and has a saddle on its back, its a horse".

and yet somehow if I were to put a saddle on a zebra, it would not be a horse. Things can be similar without being the same. You also mentioned how the story says it was mutated rabies. if you've ever seen an animal with rabies, they aren't going around mindlessly eating people. they're just really aggressive.

3) why shouldn't many body/leg/arm shot's stop them? I don't care if you can't actually kill them with anything but a headshot. In essence they are nothing more than humans, and no matter how resilient a human is, if you've torn all of their muscle tissue to shreds, they won't be attacking you anymore. It might not be dead, but it might as well be.

I think I should point this out, there are no zombies in Left 4 Dead. The infected are actually the rage "zombies" from 28 Days Later.

They are Vampires...Francis said so on No Mercy in the Hospital Elevator.

Addressing point one. Yes, on expert it's a bitch. But having the "zombie film experience" is inherently flawed, as the levels aren't randomized. There are nooks and crannies where you can hide, heal and blast hordes away without issue.

In zombie movies people act on their instinct, usually because they're in an unfamiliar environment. Once you've played a map through several times, and you know all the opportunities and threats of the map, then than "What's round the corner" feeling vanishes.

Puppeteer Putin:
Addressing point one. Yes, on expert it's a bitch. But having the "zombie film experience" is inherently flawed, as the levels aren't randomized. There are nooks and crannies where you can hide, heal and blast hordes away without issue.

In zombie movies people act on their instinct, usually because they're in an unfamiliar environment. Once you've played a map through several times, and you know all the opportunities and threats of the map, then than "What's round the corner" feeling vanishes.

Even with the wait and survive parts of the stories you expect and know that a horde will always come.
For example, with the No Mercy hospital level where you call the elevator, there is always a horde.

Maybe to remove the whats around the corner attitude where you know there will be a horde, the director could maybe not spawn the horde when you expect it. With the example, the director could spawn the horde in the elevator when it arrives, or on top of the elevator when you are in it, or even have a horde waiting for you outside the elevator.

Well although I loved left 4 dead I had different expectations going in. It would open world-ish with 4 other dudes and a bunch of zombies. There would be no winning only surviving for as long as you can moving from safe haven to safe haven as your new found homes got overrun. But it feels like a much better implemented... GOW2. (except the enemies cant shoot you).

That being said this is the only game where losing is way more fun than winning.

In No Mercy, the last section, when you go in the hallway just before the tank shows up, 9 out of 10 a hoard of zombies shows up from behind. The thing is, its a crowded hallway, so if you empty out a shotgun, they fall pretty fast. This game is overpowered, REALLY overpowered, and even though there is the AI director, after 2 or 3 times through each campaign, it becomes completely predictable. If it weren't for the versus mode, this game wouldn't be worth buying

1) Play on expert, or delay a little bit, or hang around in an open area for a minute or two. The periods of calmness and breath catching are there only to let your nerves unwind just enough to be rewound when you hear a boomer gurgle or a smoker cough.

2) Well, they can't eat you while you are still struggling. You are much easier to consume once you and your allies have been beaten to death and stop shooting them.

3) A)They are infected humans
We already know that the infection causes mutations. One of those caused in the standard horde zombie is an immunity to pain and decreased reliance on oxygen. This means that it takes several minutes for a zombie shot in the heart or lungs to actually die, especially when hyped on adrenaline. (Yes, I just made that completely up, but there's no reason it wouldn't work).
B) They are Zombies
Headshots kill them efficiently. If you are shooting them in the torso, the goal is to wreck them to the point where they just flop around rather than are able to actively kill you. Then, rather than cleaning up every flopping zombie, you hustle on through before more show up. Besides, it would be incredibly frustrating in a gameplay sense to have to headshot fast moving targets reliably to make kills, much less the amount you would have to kill to get all the way through the game. The average headshot percentage at the end of the game usually hovers between 8% and 12%.

Me being a gamer.... I have but one problem with Left 4 Dead....

360....exclusive.... *facepalms* >_<

For the argument that says "zombies should be slow, undead and they should eat you, not beat you up": There is no unanimous agreement on what defines a zombie. The word "zombie" originated from use in voodoo, by which a zombie was a corpse that had been re-animated by a person. George Romero's portrayal of zombies in Night of The Living Dead became the most popular, (As shambling, somewhat stupid and flesh-hungry creatures) but that does not mean that this is the true zombie definition. 28 Days Later did away with the idea of the undead and used the "rage" zombies. Creatures that were fast, angry, and strived to beat the shit out of anyone who wasn't infected. Again, this isn't the true zombie definition, because there is no true zombie definition.

Left 4 Dead takes a similar approach to the 28 Days Later zombies. They're fast and aggressive, they aren't hungry for human flesh but nonetheless they are zombies. Get it yet?

For the argument that says a headshot should be the only sufficient way to kill a zombie: Once again, there is no rule that says this is necessary. Destroying the brain is the most popular method shown, but it depends on what your zombies are like. The Infected are just humans that have become infected with something, causing increased physical output and aggressiveness. They are still in a human body, and pumping a few bullets into their torso will do just as much damage as blowing off their head.

Is there something unrealistic about a sub-human creature being killed by shots to the arms or legs? Who gives a shit? Remember, not everything has to be realistic.

Is there something unrealistic about a sub-human creature being killed by shots to the arms or legs? Who gives a shit? Remember, not everything has to be realistic.

The hilarious thing is that humans going berserk with rage when infected with a strain of rabies is much more plausible than humans dying and coming back to life.

All right, opinion responses to initial points first...

1) I really guess this is a "beauty in the eye of the beholder" thing, and everyone has unique experiences.

2) I figure it's just so we don't have to suspend our disbelief too much. I mean, you get struck a few times, slashed at, your body will ache and you might be bleeding but some morphine or some adhesive medical strips will keep you going. But no amount of pills or bandages will hide the fact that you are missing a good deal of flesh, muscle and are bleeding profusely, not to mention that your bones could be broken, after having the force of a tireless human jaw go right through it.

And I doubt the developers wanted to saddle your allies with having to drag you around.

3) Zombies, multiple incarnations(Romero, whatever the hell preceded Romero, classic, "brain-eaters", the 28-Days-Later Infected kind, etc.). The developers decided that their Infected can be killed with enough bullets anywhere. Also that some can mutate. And they only feel like hitting people, not biting.

Maybe the Infected mutated so that they're faster and much more vicious and have the ability to evolve into stronger beings, but at the expense of their entire body being now their weak point.

I'm just saying there's not just one kind of zombie formula. As everybody else has stated, there are plenty of zombie formulas to go by. Many of which are not just restricted to "extermination by destroying the head".

But there is a modding community and a mapping community. I'll just say that. And I'm sure some are just dying for a viable L4D idea.

2. You guys are immune to the virus. Maybe them eating you would lead to rejection as immune cells spread through the infected body and kills the creature? Something like that?

GenHellspawn:

JimmyBassatti:

3. They are Infected...not Zombies...

So why can they take multiple machine gun rounds to the heart without dieing? I know very few sick people that can accomplish this.

Because it's a fracking video game....

Since we could be here for eternity arguing the nature of l4d rotting hordes allow me to throw my hat into the proverbial political ring to bide the time.

Valve have dropped the ball into a huge vat of lava/acid compound in terms of zombie lore.
Zombies shouldn't sprint (how can legs that are in an advanced state of decompasition work better and thus outrun those who are quite healthy and decay free?), being bitten once might as well be fatal (then again, at this rate every zombie game would be impossible if that were included for the player, and the zombies in l4d don't bite for some abstract reason), killing a zombie should be a case of headshots only, full auto to the rib cage isn't enough (saying they're infected with a form of rabies, and thus still actually alive, is a flimsy excuse which just strikes me as being a get out of jail free card for explaining anything).

These guys aren't really zombies (and screw your multiple zombie formula nonsense, zombies have always been slow, shambolic and hard to kill and always should be).
I remember the Yahtzee definition of a zombie game (that being that you could replace the enemies with pretty much anything and it would still feel like the undead are after you) and this game fails to deliver there (I only thought these things were zombies because of the title and the fact that it was advertised as a zombie game).

You could give this game to someone in a blank box, tell them it's about escaped mental patients and they'd probably believe you.

sometimes it looks a bit like hte Tank is eating me, or kissing me, but then it pumels me into the ground. As for all the zombies eating us, you do have a point.