Okay, let me rephrase this so that it makes sense. It DOES require skill within the light that a player needs to know:

A. Attack Patterns
B. How to use their own class
C. Movement and technique

However, this isn't skill on the same level as a fighting game, FPS, or anything technical. Not knocking ALL MMO's and RPG's for this, however the majority of MMO's all cater to someone's ability to play on the same field REGARDLESS OF SKILL (winkwink Balacing knudgeknudge) instead of having default gamer instincts.

These kids on WoW these days would get schooled in 2Fort. The real one, not the TF2 Toy Story knockoff.

Arsen:

These kids on WoW these days would get schooled in 2Fort. The real one, not the TF2 Toy Story knockoff.

And you would probably get owned even with a character 10 levels above them. Don't trivialize people's skill just because you don't get it.

This boys and girls, is a troll

Note the dour expression and hairy knuckles

Crap, I voted for No =_=
I meant, to a certain degree, because, even excluding PvP, you need to remember all the spell combos for w/e you need to do, whether that be run away, chase someone down, melee combat or ranged combat.

edit: woops, I suppose all of the above and below fits with PvP too but my point was, it all applies to PvE in certain cases as well.

Also, in games with massive ammounts of buffs, you need to keep track of your buffs, casting spells/attacking AND your HP and MP, so when it gets to a really messy fight against a really powerful boss, I suppose it does require skill.

I dunno, I don't often work with teams so MMO players tend to have skills I don't.

MMO's don't require much skills at all really. Just click on the mob and hope it dies before you do. I play FFXI and the only skills you need to know are always fight in a party and paladin is overall the best and safest job to solo as. Ok ok there also the encyclopedic knowledge required to abuse enemy weaknesses but almost nobody does that unless there a Black Mage in FFXI.

Altorin:
This boys and girls, is a troll

Note the dour expression and hairy knuckles

Haha, I laughed.

And yes, you need to know what a skill does, and need to know what skill to use in a situation, so they do require skill (knowledge).

I think the most skill oriented MMORPG would probably be guild wars. You only get to have 8 attack slots so you have to choose your skills wisely and make sure they can work in any situation and that's a bitch to do. WoW takes little skill only a serious time commitment and yes I've played WoW so I'm not just trolling.

That's a really broad sweeping statement to make about MMO's. Also, what if some people are no good at MMO's? In their case, they need to practice their skills to get better at it. So, for them, MMO's require skills.

I don't play EVE, but from what I hear, THAT game definitely requires skill to play.

It's kind of a lame question. You ask that about almost anything else and it wouldn't sound right.

i.e. "Does it require skill to draw? All you do is move your pencil over the paper and hope that what comes out in the end is a picture of something." Okay, so not the greatest example, but you should get my point at least.

Not sleeping for days on end is a skill. So is living off snacks and energy drinks. Try them sometime, I bet by day 3 you'll be hospitalized.

Oh and all the clicking and stuff.

I find it hilarious that he admits that MMOs require knowledge of:

A. Attack Patterns
B. How to use their own class
C. Movement and technique

How does that not infer that it takes some skill to play it?

You can get better at MMOs, and you can be a better tank/healer/DPS/PvPer then another player, so how can you say there's no skill involved.

I have to disagree, if you don't have any skill you simply wont see the best parts of these games, Guild Wars is a great example, while even WoW has moments where you need to get that brain in gear

ultimasupersaiyan:
MMO's don't require much skills at all really. Just click on the mob and hope it dies before you do. I play FFXI and the only skills you need is to know are always fight in a party and paladin is overall the best and safest job to solo as. Ok ok there also the encyclopedic knowledge required to abuse enemy weaknesses but almost nobody does that unless there a Black Mage in FFXI.

You sir suck. Now I don't play anymore and haven't for 3 years. But, I mean common seriously.. Paladin as the best solo job? Are you retarded? Have you never heard of beast master which basically solo's all of it's levels until around 65? Or maybe a Red Mage/Ninja Soloing many of the Notorious Monsters? Hell Paladin is an alright tank but even in most cases it's better to have a Ninja/Warrior. So please before you start saying something requires no skill, at least know something about the game. Every line in your post is absolute gold to anyone who's played for a fair while.

The only skill I've ever been aware of when playing an mmo is choosing how to spec and when to hit people with what attacks...so no, not really. Keep in mind that the only mmo I've ever given the time of day was WoW so I could be missing out on some deep mmo, though I truly doubt it.

Thinking back I have to take that back, I played Guild Wars for a couple months and there is some skill needed to play that, though anyone can gain what little skill you need after about a week.

To a degree. I've only played CoH and WoW, and I can safely say they require some learned skills to play well, just not as much as many single-player games. I can play both the aforementioned titles while reading a book, which is not the case for most games (except turn-based obviously). Of course if it's a close PvP match I'll drop the book- if your opponent knows what they're doing you need to pay close attention for once. I just wish they had a better variety of strategies to use with each class. As it is, I often know what each class will do before they do it. Not that there's much you can do to prevent some strategies.

Omnipotent_Mortal:
I have to disagree, if you don't have any skill you simply wont see the best parts of these games, Guild Wars is a great example, while even WoW has moments where you need to get that brain in gear

Allow me to post the strategy for defeating Malygos in WoW

Spoiler'd For Hugeness

If you are progressing through malygos, or your team is trying to down him for the first time, it's bloody difficult, and your team needs to be on their game.

You know in all honesty, I should probably rephrase this to "World of Warcraft" instead of MMO. Technically you're just waiting to fight someone who has less knowledge than you do...

Even Runescape requires a degree of skill in order to compete. There's a lot of things to learn about timing, tactics and strategy, especially when it comes to PVP.

the skill is to do know what your doing

Altorin:
I find it hilarious that he admits that MMOs require knowledge of:

A. Attack Patterns
B. How to use their own class
C. Movement and technique

How does that not infer that it takes some skill to play it?

You can get better at MMOs, and you can be a better tank/healer/DPS/PvPer then another player, so how can you say there's no skill involved.

Because skill =! knowledge...

To a certain degree. While one could easily reach the level cap of a mumorpuger by repeating the same 3 keystrokes, occasionally clicking, and giving up a huge time commitment, endgame PvE raids and PvP encounters generally take some knowledge and so called "skill".

Take World of Warcraft PvP. Say you have a character taken to the maximum level, decked out in the best gear possible, and put him in a Battleground. If the player controlling said character does not fully understand his class abilities, the layout of the battlefield, the objective of the gametype, and strategies for fighting other classes, all of that epic gear will be little help when fighting a more knowledgeable opponent.

Altorin:

Omnipotent_Mortal:
I have to disagree, if you don't have any skill you simply wont see the best parts of these games, Guild Wars is a great example, while even WoW has moments where you need to get that brain in gear

Allow me to post the strategy for defeating Malygos in WoW

Spoiler'd For Hugeness

If you are progressing through malygos, or your team is trying to down him for the first time, it's bloody difficult, and your team needs to be on their game.

Yeah, exactly this.

It's a different set of skills. FPS and fighting games test hand-eye coordination, response time, combo planning, etc.. MMORPGs tend to test strategic thinking, especially for groups and/or under time pressure, as well as social/group management skills.

It's like chess vs. pinball - completely different games and goals, completely different sets of skills. Chess may get more esteem for being "the game of kings" and having a thousand year history, but you can't sit here and tell me pinball doesn't require a blind deaf and dumb boy helluva lot of skill to play.

Altorin summed it up pretty well.

I'd just like to add that skill involved in an MMO setting is knowing what your character is capable of and when to use it. But probably most important of all, when not to use your abilities. You can half-ass, leveling up in an MMO. But when you get to the end game, people who half-ass it are quickly noted and even more quickly black-flagged by the community. This is because half-assing end game stuff causes a lot of people to get killed, sucking up valuable time and leaving people to wonder why they let a half-assed player in when a more knowledgable and commited one could have been found.

Sure, it probably takes more hand-eye skill to play other types of games. But there are some skills involved in MMOs. Mostly co-ordination and situational knowledge.

They obviously do require some level of skill. I mean yeah, it has more single-button mashing than any other type of game (I'm calling this now: If anyone corrects me because I'm wrong, I expected it) but it takes skill to make routines out of the skills. Actually it's easier if I give an example. World of Warcraft (sigh). If you play a mage you have a number of different spells. Coming up with an efficient, logical routine takes a degree of skill. As does making different routines for different situations.

And I don't play MMOs so don't think I'm being biased.

Every MMO requires skill, probably not in the PvE but in PvP. I used to play guild wars, and to play the Pvp (good) you had to know how to create builds that did certain things, how to counter other players, and what to stay away from. I guess you can say that this is more intelligence than skill but it does take a lot of practice.

pantsoffdanceoff:
I think the most skill oriented MMORPG would probably be guild wars. You only get to have 8 attack slots so you have to choose your skills wisely and make sure they can work in any situation and that's a bitch to do. WoW takes little skill only a serious time commitment and yes I've played WoW so I'm not just trolling.

Exactly this. Except you forgot to mention that everyone who does PvP is at the same, easy to reach, level of 20. Meaning that a time commitment doesn't give an advantage.

gigastrike:

pantsoffdanceoff:
I think the most skill oriented MMORPG would probably be guild wars. You only get to have 8 attack slots so you have to choose your skills wisely and make sure they can work in any situation and that's a bitch to do. WoW takes little skill only a serious time commitment and yes I've played WoW so I'm not just trolling.

Exactly this. Except you forgot to mention that everyone who does PvP is at the same, easy to reach, level of 20. Meaning that a time commitment doesn't give an advantage.

Yeah, which is the point. Its based on how you use your skills, not whose the higher level.

I hate MMO's but I agree that they need some level of skill. They are not like playing a Wii, which requires no skill what so ever for some games. Have you seen all the damned buttons on a keyboard? (that was a rhetorical question)

Pyronox:

gigastrike:

pantsoffdanceoff:
I think the most skill oriented MMORPG would probably be guild wars. You only get to have 8 attack slots so you have to choose your skills wisely and make sure they can work in any situation and that's a bitch to do. WoW takes little skill only a serious time commitment and yes I've played WoW so I'm not just trolling.

Exactly this. Except you forgot to mention that everyone who does PvP is at the same, easy to reach, level of 20. Meaning that a time commitment doesn't give an advantage.

Guild Wars ins't skill oriented, it's intelligence oriented.

MMO's in general only require two things: Time & basic class understanding.

Those who win are the ones that can spin around their ennemy, preventing them from attacking them in turn, and those who can pull off "combos".

A real skill MMO would be theoretically an MMO that doesn't require gear, skillups, but twitch like CS.

Tabula Rasa?

Not everyone plays games to test their skill.

Welcome to the 21st century by the way.

I think it requires skill, I mean those PvP battles are determined some how.

Another thing is games like Guild Wars, no matter how hard I tried I never seemed to make a good Character, decent but not awesome.

MMOs require skill just as much as some FPS games. Take EVE, that game requires an insane amount of skill and knowledge to be able to play. WoW requires some twitch ability to react to enemy spells, and also know exactly what to do, when to do it, and how best to do it. FPS titles require target recognition and twitch skills for reaction. All different, but skills nonetheless.

gigastrike:

Tabula Rasa?

That made me laugh but I don't think that was an appropriate example...