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Gone Gonzo  Posts: 2899 Joined: 3 Jan 2008     | |
Gone Gonzo  Posts: 2996 Joined: 13 Aug 2008    | No, they're not dead, and they never will die. At least, they'll never die in Japan. Here, I wouldn't be surprised if in a few years, the only way American JRPG fans would be able to get a hold of JRPGs would be to import them (except for Final Fantasy, of course, a series whose lack of finality is comparable to the Mario franchise). |
BANNED  Posts: 253 Joined: 4 Sep 2008     | They aren't dead but they need to evolve more, or something.. I enjoyed Tales of Vesperia to a degree but the dialogue/story in that game was painful for me to get through. Everything was just so cliche and you could pretty much predict what every character would say next. It's hard for me to even get into JRPGS anymore without it feeling like I'm just going through the motions. I'm sure thats just me losing interest in the genre as other people still enjoy them. User was banned for: Why aren't girls into gaming?. (Permanent) |
Gone Gonzo  Posts: 4077 Joined: 23 Apr 2008     | Sadly, the visual novel style of game J"RPGs" are as present as ever, as survivalist as cockroaches. |
Gone Gonzo  Posts: 1173 Joined: 13 Nov 2007     |
This is The Escapist, we are morally obligated to have double standards against games that Yahtzee has bashed. |
Gone Gonzo  Posts: 1063 Joined: 23 Sep 2008    | not dead but bad |
On the Record  Posts: 5967 Joined: 7 Feb 2008   | I hope not, I would hate to see a gaming universe dominated purely by lame ass Diablo and Oblivion style games. Don't get me wrong, I like both styles, but I also like my plot heavy JRPG's and I really HATE people who feel that Oblivion (or Fallout 3, Or Morrowind) is the only way to make an RPG. |
Beat Writer  Posts: 178 Joined: 24 Dec 2008  | JRPG's were never alive to start with, they are the undead of the gaming industry, something you can't kill no matter how many bullets you stick in em or how many times you burn em to a crisp with flaming. 1 JRPG fanboy = 1 JRPG Seeing as there are 500 million of em the amount of JRPG's still to come will be close to that. |
Muckraker  Posts: 272 Joined: 14 Dec 2008   |
I meant that along with traditional JRPGs, turn based combat is disappearing. |
Gone Gonzo  Posts: 2360 Joined: 14 Sep 2008    |
Maybe but at the time it's not dead. |
On the Record  Posts: 5011 Joined: 28 Feb 2008  |
*looks at avatar* Anyway, this thread has been done before, I've already posted my opinion twice. Go look there, since I kinda forgot. =P |
Gone Gonzo Posts: 2360 Joined: 14 Sep 2008 |
Pretty much every genre existing is undead if you want it that way. |
Muckraker Posts: 272 Joined: 14 Dec 2008 |
So many quotes, so little time...to be honest, I haven't played a Final Fantasy in years, I just heard about XI and assumed they had chosen the better path from then on :) |
Gone Gonzo  Posts: 1295 Joined: 20 Nov 2008   | 1. JRPGs aren't interactive cutscenes. you're thinking of adventure games. (Interactive fiction if you want to get specific now) JRPGS traditionally focus on story but to call them "interactive cutscenes" completely ignores the combat and character development system which is the entire damn point of the game. what you call "flow-breaking dialogue" i call compartmentalized design. JRPGs keep story and gameplay seperate in a way most WRPGs refuse to ("light" vs. "dark" paths OMG) if the gameplay's all you care about, then enjoy that and IGNORE THE STORY. skip the cutscenes and/or go make a sandwich. seriously, it's ok. 2. Final Fantasy isn't turn-based. it hasn't been since FFIV. ATB != turns. any game with a Speed stat is not turn-based. 3. yes, JRPGS recycle old ideas. Persona 4 isn't that much different from Persona 3. even FF12 just borrows from MMO design. (i assume FF11, but i never played that.) mind you this isn't necessarily a bad thing and it happens in every established genre/series. that said, there's still incredibly innovative JRPGs coming out like TWEWY. 4. they're not dead, but they'll never be as good as the glory days of CT, FF6 and FF7. back in the day you could play dragon warrior or FF1 and you'd love it, because that was the only way you could play a console RPG. nowadays the genre has matured and evolved and JRPG audiences have been siphoned off by strategy games, MMOs, and western-style RPGs. That said they will continue to be made as long as there's an audience, and there's still a sizeable audience. (people still buy new Dragon Quests for god's sake.) 5.
No game really "stops" you from grinding. you grind until you get bored. now, grinding gets boring a lot faster when the game stops rewarding you for it, but if you truly enjoy the combat system you can keep doing it. personally i have no patience for grinding unless there's a specific goal for it. (levels don't count. i got to level 98 in Dawn of Sorrow and couldn't be bothered to gain that last level because i had already done everything else in the game.) the biggest exception was FFX-2, where i finished all the sidequests and decided to max out my inventory just because i wasn't tired of the combat yet. (That said, i DID get tired of the story. i'll be at 99% story completion for the foreseeable future.) |
Anonymous Source Posts: 7 Joined: 7 Dec 2008  | Well people have been saying that RPGs in general are dead. I heard it when SSI stopped making the Gold Box games, I heard it when Wizardry and Ultima died and I heard it when Black Isle and Interplay where closed. And yet here we are having a blast with Fallout 3, Oblivion and Mass Effect. Yes, several JRPGs recently released have been disappointing but besides those already mentioned, Valkyria Chronicles was pretty good (albeit its more accurately a Strategic RPG, closer to X-Com than Final Fantasy) while Star Ocean 4 and White Knight Chronicles are on the horizon. The Tales series is still going strong as are the Persona and Disgaea games, all of which have had a successful game launched in the last year. Basically do not count them out until the fat lady sings. [Pats lovingly the tombstone of Adventure Games] |
Beat Writer  Posts: 165 Joined: 17 Apr 2008   | ALl i can say is - go to japan. Look at their game shelves. Last time i went there half the shelf was full of RPGs, the other half full of fighting games. The rest? Rounding error. A huuuuuge number are being produced, and not just in japan; japanese-style RPGs are being pumped out of china, korea and god knows where else. A search of play asia for 'japanese version' games of 'rpg' genre that have come out in the last year turns up some 114 hits - many of them duplicate entries granted but the point stands; there is one hell of a market out there. There's such a small market here that we're not going to see the smaller, lesser known titles being translated. Most of what we get are established, big name brands. And yeah, a whole lotta them are stagnating and we're sick of them. But they really are the tip of the iceberg. |
Copy Clerk  Posts: 86 Joined: 30 Aug 2007   | I find the genre of JRPG's to be kind of dumb, why should we classify all the RPG's that come from one country the same and call it a day? Even among the turn-based JRPG's the differences between one and another can be staggering when it comes to gameplay. |
On the Record Posts: 5967 Joined: 7 Feb 2008 |
Was the story ever a mess, but the Combat, Dungeons, Gameplay and Non-Linear Quest system were all really fun. |
Muckraker  Posts: 339 Joined: 18 Dec 2008    | Not as long as Atlus is around to try and make things interesting. It's nice to see a company expand the definition of RPG as well as these guys do. Also, The World Ends With You is a good one. |
Anonymous Source Posts: 10 Joined: 3 Sep 2008 |
Let me remind you that I'm one of those uncultured gaming hobos with a coolness deficit required to afford fancy next-gen shit that the rest of you chumps have, so I don't know what White Knight plays like, and I don't even have Dark Cloud nor its sequel. :C But damn KH is about as true of a JRPG as it can get for me. Everything's real-time and I'd forgive myself everytime I was stupid enough to manually select Curaga whenever I fight Sephiroth.
Oh the unfathomable joy. D: |
Muckraker Posts: 339 Joined: 18 Dec 2008 | A timing-based JRPG game brings first to my mind the Shadow Hearts series for the PS2... That was a fairly traditional game in which the 'Judgement Ring' system added some variety and skill-based gameplay... Then of course there's the Super Mario RPG and Paper Mario series in which your imputs power up your attacks. I usually prefer games in which attacking is accomplished by more than just pushing an 'okay' button... this is why (though I appreciated them in their time) I just don't care for the Final Fantasy series anymore. Can anyone else think of more turn-based imput reliant JRPGs? |
Paperboy  Posts: 43 Joined: 24 Oct 2008   | I don't think they are dead. But work and other commitments make it difficult for me to give them as much attention as I used to. They're not the most accessible type of game either, especially for newcomers to the genre, and require time and patience that most casual/infrequent gamers don't usually have. While they are immensely rewarding for those of us who can and do put the effort in, many will never experience those joys, as they struggle to get past the pains of a 'million' random turn-based battles, and time-devouring level grinding. Shame, as JRPGs are the most rewarding of genres to play. The efforts can be huge and challenging, but the rewards they offer for playing them are unique to the genre and, Long live the JRPG! |
Beat Writer  Posts: 190 Joined: 10 Sep 2008 |
Am I the only one who played Lost Odyssey? |
Gone Gonzo  Posts: 2381 Joined: 6 Mar 2008   | It always amuses me how worked up people get about JRPGs, especially since you-know-who bashed them. Such overt loathing suggests a secret affection. EDIT: Hating JRPGs in a convincing way is a very hard thing to do anyway. After all, who is going to buy, play through and finish a sufficient quantity of games they supposedly 'hate' in order to have a valid opinion? You can only make a judgement that the characters are "bland" or "stereotypical" or whatever having observed their progression for dozens of hours of gameplay, right? With that in mind, I believe that most of the 'hate' on this great-but-frequently-flawed genre is inspired by lifetstyle and image, rather than actual first-hand experience. Someone please prove me wrong. |
Copy Clerk  Posts: 124 Joined: 9 Dec 2008 |
Nope I played it and made that my Game Of 2008 followed by Last Remnant and Infinate Undiscovery. Edit: If people don't like JRPG's why watch anime? Not much difference if you ask me. |
Anonymous Source Posts: 1 Joined: 7 Jan 2009 | Not dead...The world has just all acquired the ADD perk in Fallout 3 and could give a shit less anymore. |
Muckraker Posts: 314 Joined: 11 May 2008   | In my opinion JRPGs were great at a time when resources were low for games to run on... I'm pretty sure what Yahtzee said about Point and Click Adventure Games in GameDamage applies to JRPGs. They're more story-based than anything, using simpler mechanics for gameplay to allow for such story. It's just unfortunate that unlike point and click adventure games, the JRPG genre hasn't evolved that much... Specifically in the FF games where only FFXII has had a different battle style, where FFI through X are basically the same with a few slight modifications between each one. |
Infamous Scribbler  Posts: 603 Joined: 3 Jul 2008 | Go play Valkyria Chronicles, then see if you want to post this thread. |
Gone Gonzo Posts: 2237 Joined: 12 Oct 2007   |
The demo was tops, I do have to make an effort to pick the full game up. |
Gone Gonzo Posts: 2381 Joined: 6 Mar 2008 |
I played a JRPG at a friend's house ten years ago and didn't like it. [Something about standing still in a line.] Why should I do anything proactive to change my ill-informed yet fashionable opinion? Trying new games...? PAH! |
Gone Gonzo Posts: 1295 Joined: 20 Nov 2008 |
complex story and complex gameplay are not necessarily mutually exclusive. game designers and directors just tend to have more experience in one area or the other, so that's what they emphasize in their games. Final Fantasy VII became legendary because it used the then-cutting edge resources of the playstation to reinvent the JRPG. the story was ancillary to that, although square also used the new technology to create some truly memorable cutscene images.
this is a bit like saying FPSes haven't evolved much because they all have the same battle system. not to mention it ignores games like Final Fantasy Tactics, which had battle systems that were so different they weren't part of the numbered series. |
Gone Gonzo  Posts: 2147 Joined: 2 Aug 2006  | Hmm, what, did we ban the last guy who was complaining about Japanese RPGs and he decided to start an alt where he complains about them again because his doing so before was the most amusing thing he had done in awhile? Nope, he wasn't banned. I guess this is just a coincidence. So... JRPGs... dead? Get back to me when that doesn't refer to something as silly as "RPGs made in Japan." It's like me suggesting that First Person Shooters made in the USA are dead because there's so many crappy derivatives out there. Frankly, the overwhelming presence of the derivatives is a sign that the genre is doing just fine in that country, because if it wasn't, there wouldn't be so many vultures flying about trying to jump in the train to Success Town. |
Beat Writer  Posts: 151 Joined: 2 Dec 2008   |
Level caps and monster limits DO stop the grinding.In most Western RPGs both of these problem do appear. When I'm bored i'll brake out Final Fantasy 8 and grind the training room. |
Press Junketeer  Posts: 500 Joined: 24 Jun 2008 |
Most RPGs from Japan are different from other RPGs but simular enough to be called their own subgenre. There's a really big difference between JRPGs and WRPGs. To put it in very simple terms, JRPG stats are most likely Attack, Defence, Magic ATK, Magic DEF,Hit and evasion. While WRPG stats are most likely Strength, Agility, Inteligence, Constitution, Willpower and Charisma (Based off DnD and other Pencil and Paper RPGs). And the whole JRPGs are usually linear while WRPGs are more open ended. So I think that an RPG from Japan can be considered a WRPG (Etrian Odyssey for example) and an RPG from the West could be considered a JRPG. |
Beat Writer  Posts: 155 Joined: 18 Sep 2008   | Since when were they ever alive? |
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Uhh? Kingdom Hearts? Dark Cloud? White Knight Chronicle?
And yes Purists Are Great, We must keep the Genre Exactly the same... Oh god I can't even Fake being one of them, there the reason it takes so long to grow!
No JRPG's Won't die, if you don't like them cry more, find or create a forum exclusively so you can whine, the topic has been done to death, your wrong if you think they are.