When i was first introduced to Oblivion i was very, very excited for the free roaming aspect with customization to the point were it was out of proportion. But now it seems that every RGP that i encounter is trying to do the same thing and gets rlly repetitive.kinda like the MMORPG's but less fun, also with RPG's like Final Fantasy you would think that they would loose there popularity after 13 releases. It's hard to find an RPG that is good and original now a days.

I think the problem with most Western RPGs is that they really do not have a structure to tell the story. They leave that up completely to the player which is purely hit or miss and either the player gets the story and follows through or misses it and gets bogged down in side quests until they accidentally find the main quest.

Without a story with a good pace the RPG can really just fall apart and with the demand of free roaming players are encouraged to explore too much with no specific quest to guide them. While the player at times should not be told where to go specifically they still have a quest which leaves them to talk to npcs or think where would the quest continue. Right now you either have the game telling you EXACTLY where to go with no encouragement to explore OR you have no idea where to go because you are just LOST and do not know where to go or how to get your quest started.

Also the other problem is that RPGs are now trying to throw in different mechanics to keep the game interesting and this has a wide range which has also been hit or miss. FF12 had a license system and FF10 had a sphere grid to open up new abilties and spells. The tales of Syphonia series had the GEL system which determined which special combat abilities each character would get. Now this is all well and good but it still detracts from the player focusing on the actual story which makes playing WRPG and JRPG even longer than ever before because we have so much side stuff to do.

There's a few schools of thought on RPGs.

There's a linear, guided approach where the characters have their own personalities and you mostly just control where they go and how they fight. Most JRPGs fall into this category, and you'll often find that the Big List of RPG Cliches applies pretty much universally.

There's the open-world, customize your own character, choose what you say in conversations route. The problem here is that the main character is often fairly wooden. Less a main character and more a direct portal by which the player interacts with the world. In fact your character often has no personality whatsoever on screen, his only personality existing in the player's imagination.

There's MMO's..... yes. Yes there are.

And then there are hybrids. Stuff like Dues Ex and Mass Effect, which don't neatly fit into any one RPG description. If you want more original RPGs, maybe you should start looking there.

- J

tiredinnuendo:
And then there are hybrids. Stuff like Dues Ex and Mass Effect, which don't neatly fit into any one RPG description. If you want more original RPGs, maybe you should start looking there.

I personally find only these sorts of RPGs the only ones that aren't tiresomely boring, endless, or drenched in so many numbers and statistics I can't remember what button it is to attack (e.g. KOTOR, Morrowind)

If you want the benchmark at what all RPGs or games which feature politics as a central theme should be like, play Deus Ex.

I kind of liked Oblivion and the rest of the elder scrolls series, I couldn't find any rpg that could even measure up to oblivion. Sorry if you hate me for that :(

I think there is a load of good RPG's, its just that everyone compares them to oblivion, which although good, is not a true RPG. They then get hate. My example is 2 worlds, a good solid RPG. As it was released next to oblivion, it got a huge wave of hate. =[

I believe there's a fine line between all the "types" of RPGs anyway. And in that fine line, lies the problem we seem to discuss. You guys just described certain styles to the RPG, linear, dialogue driven, open, etc. First, all games are essentially RPG simply because a player is taking on the Role of an avatar, a human one or otherwise. Second, each of the styles described above is probably attributed to a specific game, meaning, game designers don't metastasize any styles in between. Tiredinnuendo mentioned Dues Ex and Mass Effect as hybrids, but even then, most any decision a player makes had to go through a dialogue sequence first. I think, in a way, those dialogues are trying to mimic how fast a brain works when developing a strategy and then manifesting it. Unfortunately, in games, that has to be slowed down to fit a game play style - and many times it is slowed way down and becomes uninteresting like Never Winter Nights or Oblivion. These games are fun for a while, but the dialogue is just too overbearing and boring for the majority. So, as in Mass Effect, one can't just think of how they want their comrades to move through a battle so it takes some menus and button selections.

My real point is, though, everything is an RPG, and what the real challenge is to game designers, is placing the styles in places that fit within the "right" moments in games. Right now, it's easier to make an entire game linear or make one entirely dialogue based. So, that's what we get. I don't think RPGs are bust at all. It's more foundational than that - game makers just aren't as creative as we give them credit for. Or at least not as often :-)

I tend to like JRPGs, but are starting to get a little bored of all the main characters being young kids trying to get revenge on some all guy for killing someone - blah blah.
I kinda want a main character to be an older and more mature person rather than a little whiney kid.
I kinda only prefer the only JRPGs that were on the Snes to PS2; I pretty much depend on JRPGs for the stories, and if the story isn't good, I would still keep playing it because a JRPGs repetativeness(sp) is the only one I can stand; doing the same battles over and over just to see numbers raise and get new skills.

I prefer WRPGs for the free roaming and the choices a player can make during a game.
There's only one WRPG that I was kinda disappointed with, and some people might disagree with me, was Mass Effect.
When I first played it I enjoyed, I was an evil bastard, but when I was playing through the game a second time, trying to be good, when ever I got the chance to choose what to say, they would say the excatly the same thing as if I had chosen the bad speech.

there not dead their just evolving into mix genres like action rpgs, and shooter rpgs. not dead just different.

RPGs have potential, but they generally lean heavily on the story. The core gameplay mechanic of an RPG tends to be rather weak, with simple choices and heavily reliance on power accumulation. It's not really right to say that this is the fault of RPG so much as developers who aren't ambitious enough to push the envelope.

Well I do think Oblivion was one of the greatest RPG's of the next Gen. I also agree that it is very amazing on how Squarenix has kept the FF series alive for all of these years. However, I believe that the RPG industry needs to break with the classic "Save the kingdom" formula. If the game developers want to go anywhere I think that they need to maybe trek on a more risky formula that is both untested and gutsy. Oh, and please for the love of God give us a main character that is not a pussy. Please that would be greatly appreciated.

It's hard to find a GAME that is good and original these days, not just RPG's. How many First Person Shooters REALLY offer a worthwhile variant on the basic run and gun experience?

Bioshock added a different level to the run and gun formula of the FPS but that's about all I can think of.

Grimm91:
Bioshock added a different level to the run and gun formula of the FPS but that's about all I can think of.

True the "ecology" aspect of it coupled with the Plasmid powers and minor RPG elements definately made it a different experience from the average shooter.

Fallout 3 was absolutely amazing.

Fable 2 is diffrent, thats something.

Grimm91:
Bioshock added a different level to the run and gun formula of the FPS but that's about all I can think of.

Yes, except the level it added was really a dumbed down version of System Shock 2, which actually falls closer to an FPS RPG.

Frankly, World of Warcraft is the best I've found, it has a vast storyline that you can follow if you want, there is an enormous world in which you are fairly unconstrained (as long as you don't mind a little travel time), it allows you high personalization of your character and the combat system is rather intuitive. The best thing for me about combat is that every action has a very distinct icon that you grow to recognize rather quickly, meaning you always know what you're doing. Honestly, it does almost everything that I could want out of an RPG.

WrongSprite:
...My example is 2 worlds, a good solid RPG. As it was released next to oblivion, it got a huge wave of hate. =[

Two worlds got 'hate' because it was buggy, crappy, poorly made, worst voice acting I've ever heard (And many others), worse dialogue, and a bad story. Plus the devs. of the game were calling it an 'Oblivion killer', which BEGS people to compare it to Oblivion.

Two Worlds was awful and a waste of time.

Sedina:
I kind of liked Oblivion and the rest of the elder scrolls series, I couldn't find any rpg that could even measure up to oblivion. Sorry if you hate me for that :(

Oblivion was good, no doubt. But I find the best RPGs are the older ones. I'm a Western RPG freak. Sorry, can't STAND JRPGs, no matter what series you mention.

The Baldur's Gate and Icewind Dale series are two of my favourite RPGs of all time. Baldur's Gate being the MOST favourite. I still play them to this day! And find them to be the deepest, most intriguing RPGs I've ever played. That being said, I do look forward to the next Elder Scrolls title. I spent many many hours in Morrowind and Oblivion, and I probably will for the next one.

May we assume Baby Tea that you are excited for Dragon Age then?

I enjoy the Baldurs Gate games a LOT more than Oblivion/Elder Scrolls because they have things Oblivion does not have...

Like Plot, Character and strategic gameplay. Also they have Spectacle, Oblivion really lacks Spectacle, it's 2d but when you fight your first dragon in Baldurs Gate 2 you WILL be impressed.

I completely agree with you and I think WOW has done a great job with adding ingenuity to the genre. However I wish that the genre as a whole could improve and that I had the money and time to really play WOW

coldfrog:

Grimm91:
Bioshock added a different level to the run and gun formula of the FPS but that's about all I can think of.

Yes, except the level it added was really a dumbed down version of System Shock 2, which actually falls closer to an FPS RPG.

Frankly, World of Warcraft is the best I've found, it has a vast storyline that you can follow if you want, there is an enormous world in which you are fairly unconstrained (as long as you don't mind a little travel time), it allows you high personalization of your character and the combat system is rather intuitive. The best thing for me about combat is that every action has a very distinct icon that you grow to recognize rather quickly, meaning you always know what you're doing. Honestly, it does almost everything that I could want out of an RPG.

The only problem is you need to deal with the inconsistancies of people in order to experience it, and I don't make friends well on teh intarwebz. That and the Endless Grind puts a damper on experiencing the story, especially if the people you're playing with aren't at all interested in it and yell at you if you wait to read the dialogue.

Yes but it had the same pitfall all shooter have it got repetitive and ll to be frank boring. I loved he gameplay and story but in the end i was only a baby step in the growth o the genre

There's only so much you can do with RPGs. On the off chance that you haven't played diablo2 i suggest you play it, because it's not like oblivion-style RPGs and is exceptionally good.

I don't think any computer game genres are good as a whole. Oblivion was alright, Morrowind was exceptional, but you can't expect the whole genre to rock; just need to find the best ones.

My Best RPG:
Diablo 2/Morrowind

My Best JRPG:
Tales of Symphonia (If you have the time - 60 hours or more)

RPGs haven't been the same for years... I remember the days of western RPGs like:

Arcanum: of Steamworks and Magick Obscura
Fallouts 1 and 2
Baldur's Gate (Tales of Sword Coast)
Baldur's Gate II: Shadows of Amn
Baldur's Gate II: Throne of Bhaal
Planescape: Torment
Elder Scrolls 2: Daggerfall
Elder Scrolls 3: Morrowind.

Oh how times have changed.

Still, Mass Effect re-kindled my faith in BioWare a wee-bit, maybe Dragon Age will too.

I'm still extremely prejudiced against JRPGs taking a "Played 1 played them all" attitude, after playing a couple and getting a Deja Vu feeling.

Archaeology Hat:

I'm still extremely prejudiced against JRPGs taking a "Played 1 played them all" attitude, after playing a couple and getting a Deja Vu feeling.

I MUST ask though, did you play Chrono Trigger?

It won't make you like JRPG's, but it might show you some ways that it can be done right. It is a 12 year old game though, so at least be fair to it.

PedroSteckecilo:
The only problem is you need to deal with the inconsistancies of people in order to experience it, and I don't make friends well on teh intarwebz. That and the Endless Grind puts a damper on experiencing the story, especially if the people you're playing with aren't at all interested in it and yell at you if you wait to read the dialogue.

I've never found it as much of a grind, they have a surprisingly large amount of variety in quests (as long as you don't stick around the durotar starting area long) and there is almost never a reason to kill things just to gain levels or get items. It's a valid route, sure, but they've done a great job of taking the necessity of it out.

As for the other part, I guess I can't really help you there, however, I would recommend playing on an RP server, people tend to be more lenient of such things.

Or you can always come and be my internet friend! whee! *cough* yeah.

Personally I'm really getting sick of all these RPGish action games like Oblivion, the more because it seems most people don't actually know what a REAL RPG is anymore.
I think Dragon Age will determine what course RPG's go the next few years.

Bioware. End of story.

Knight Templar:
Fable 2 is diffrent, thats something.

Fable 2 diffrent? you are crazy? it is the run of the mill RPG. You are some "chosen one" needing to iether get revenge/save the kingdom and is a total rip off of its first game the only new thing in Fable 2 is that you can be a girl and have a dog.not much of a new thing and just showes the developers getting lazy to come up with new things, even for a sequal.

Shotgunbunny:
Personally I'm really getting sick of all these RPGish action games like Oblivion, the more because it seems most people don't actually know what a REAL RPG is anymore.
I think Dragon Age will determine what course RPG's go the next few years.

ummmmm. Oblivion is an RPG and possible the second best out there at the moment.sadly that is the case.
http://dragonage.bioware.com/
After seing this i am hoping that this RPG will not dissapoint.

tiredinnuendo:
And then there are hybrids. Stuff like Dues Ex and Mass Effect, which don't neatly fit into any one RPG description.

But they also lack many RPG elements. They feel like shooters that are hampered by numbers. Usually when I play a shooter, it is so I just pick up and play without having to grind a certain power, equipment, or skill level. These hybrids tend to take elements of both, but can't really focus on a single aspect to focus on. They are good for a litle while, but in the long run, they don't have the online matchmaking of a standard FPS, or the length and depth of a standard RPG.

J-Man:

tiredinnuendo:
And then there are hybrids. Stuff like Dues Ex and Mass Effect, which don't neatly fit into any one RPG description. If you want more original RPGs, maybe you should start looking there.

I personally find only these sorts of RPGs the only ones that aren't tiresomely boring, endless, or drenched in so many numbers and statistics I can't remember what button it is to attack (e.g. KOTOR, Morrowind)

If you want the benchmark at what all RPGs or games which feature politics as a central theme should be like, play Deus Ex.

you forgot how to attack...in KOTOR?

Cortheya:

J-Man:

tiredinnuendo:
And then there are hybrids. Stuff like Dues Ex and Mass Effect, which don't neatly fit into any one RPG description. If you want more original RPGs, maybe you should start looking there.

I personally find only these sorts of RPGs the only ones that aren't tiresomely boring, endless, or drenched in so many numbers and statistics I can't remember what button it is to attack (e.g. KOTOR, Morrowind)

If you want the benchmark at what all RPGs or games which feature politics as a central theme should be like, play Deus Ex.

you forgot how to attack...in KOTOR?

yea its the A button over attack. but the only origonal RPG out there is No More Heroes and earth bound if you can find a bloody copy

personally I lost all hope in japanese RPGs they all have the same feel. On the other hand the term RPG has been lost to our modern society. Role Playing means to create a character and enter a world you could poteinally lose yourself in good examples are oblivion and fallout. Now we need up playing as a idiotic fool that is derserving to be shot and evidently by changing the name of the characters to somthing you want becomes Role Playing. Games need to go back to similarly in depth experience as pen and paper RPGs like the ever famous D&D. Not starting as a hero in training or some shit like that but a mercenary or travelers who want their names sung in adventurous ballads created by bards in generations to come THATS role playing

Ravenholm27:
personally I lost all hope in japanese RPGs they all have the same feel. On the other hand the term RPG has been lost to our modern society. Role Playing means to create a character and enter a world you could poteinally lose yourself in good examples are oblivion and fallout. Now we need up playing as a idiotic fool that is derserving to be shot and evidently by changing the name of the characters to somthing you want becomes Role Playing. Games need to go back to similarly in depth experience as pen and paper RPGs like the ever famous D&D. Not starting as a hero in training or some shit like that but a mercenary or travelers who want their names sung in adventurous ballads created by bards in generations to come THATS role playing

well i never had much hope for JRPG's but there can still be a good RPG but your right there can not have every one be the "chosen one" like in Oblivion but if they could be like pen and paper DnD were you don't have to be a big hero or have a feel like an MMORPG like WOW. I think it is more fun if you are just a normal person working for something that is bigger than you.