DirkGently:

Xojins:

MessiahOfPants:
To be honest, stereotyping isn't exactly a bad thing. Over stereotyping is. Making a guy sound and act flamboyant isn't bad. I know many guys in the gay community that are like that. That being said, not all gays act flamboyant and not all lesbians are butch. I thought in Indigo Prophecy they added a gay character nicely. I think it's only bad when you make fun of the gay/lesbian character in a hurtful way.

It depends on who you ask. I have many gay friends, all of whom would feel differently about that kind of stereotyping. If you had one gay character in a game who was very flamboyant, that creates the image that all homosexuals act in such a manner, which emphasizes (perhaps unintentionally) that homosexuals are different from everyone else. If it was a gay character that was just a regular, average guy or girl, it wouldn't add that negative connotation.

Anyone who gets their world view from video games deserves to have a mal-formed world view. Ditto TV, music and movies. People should know better than that.

Yea, people should, but they don't.

Lesbians in game would be too distracting.

In all seriousness, you could probably make this argument for all minority groups.

On a personal level, I'm not sure the game play would change that much? Since in most games sexuality is not that integral to the game it can be whatever the person playing wishes it to be. For example, I'm playing COD2 right now. My character might or might not be gay. I identify him as heterosexual because I am not gay and I identify myself with the protagonist. If my character were to blurt out in the game "I'm gay" i would think that detracts from the immersive gaming experience.

Pyronox:
It would be doable. For instance, if someone makes a game that acts as a follow-up to V for Vendetta, one of the characters could be gay, definitely. You just need to find the right opening. However I still think people wouldn't be as charmed if the player's character was a homosexual. It would require alot of tact to pull that one off.

Aye, it would indeed. It could be done with exactly any game if it is done subtly, which is how it would pan out in real life, too. It is not like you could focus on it; that would only be insulting. Mass Effect is a really good example as a step on the way.

I'm surprised Bridget and God Hand haven't come up yet.

scotth266:
This thread has an interesting point. I can only recall one set of lesbian characters up from memory in games, but this isn't so suprising to me. Characters in games are hard to make.

To be honest, I don't see more homosexual characters being included for a while in games, and there are two reasons:
1)Our society is uncomfortable with sexuality, a lot more so than with violence. And we're still working on the "violence in videogames" thing.
2)Sales. These days, games are big business, and risky ideas are hard to acquire funding for. It's safer to stick with conventional models than to break the mold, and risk offending people and losing money that you desperately need.

I had another thought, but it escapes me. I'll write more if it comes back.

Nono, sexuality is really no issue in europe.
In austria there were a few reports on violence in videogames, but none about sexuality.
I think that that may be an american problem, theyre known to be more sensetive about sexuality than other countries...

Slayer_2:
Army of Two anyone? :P

Wow...

that comment actually made me laugh.

But in all seriousness. Im not homophobic but It would be kinda awkward in a game to do it. In most games it is a strict story telling. That means that they would force you to be gay which is kinda of a turn off to a game. If I was playing Halo 3 and all of a sudden the arbiter was hitting on me and the it said. Press RB to do it with the arbiter, I would do everything in my power to try and avoid the cutscene.

Its kinda useless plot and would only be done to show that we can do it. It also isnt Homophobics. How many christians would be offended by it if they played it in a game? And think of the children that are growing in this day and age. Im not saying that it is wrong for kids to know it but they are just kids.

Do you have a link to any of your games that we can play?

The_root_of_all_evil:
Does it really matter that much what a character's sexual preference is? Gordon Freeman could quite easily be homosexual, but would it change any part of Half Life 2?

This. Sexual preference doesn't make a difference. Except maybe in those odd Japanese erotic games.

Hunde Des Krieg:

Fanboy:
Master chief was gay.

I wouldn't feel weird playing a homosexual character in a video game, so long as the game isn't centered around the fact that said character is homosexual. However, I don't think the majority of gamers are ready for something like that, and it would only reach a very limited audience.

I think it would be better to keep the character's sexuality secret, then spring it on the fanbase after the game has become successful. Kind of like what J. K. Rowling did with Dumbledore.

But Dumbledore's sexuality never came out in the story and appeared to have no impact on the plot at all.

Yeah, that whole thing annoyed me a bit. She shouldn't suddenly change your perception of a character by making up things as she goes along, unless it's actually part of the story. I can't help it, but my envisionment of Dumbledore is now altered from the one I formed naturally in my head. It's not that I have anything against gays, I would be equally annoyed if she turned around and said "Dumbledore was in a wheelchair the whole time!" or "He had only one arm", or even "His nasal hair was really long, so that he could tie it into his pubes and strum himself like a chello". Would completely change it

TheNamlessGuy:
Well, ok, you can put "Gay people", or Homosexuals (<- Correct term, acording to my homosexual friends), BUT, alot of gamers are more homofobic than you might think! So it wouldn't sell well, which would upset the whole Homosexual-community... And things would go very bad.

I am not trying to offend. If it sounds like it, I'm sorry

I definately agree.
I cannot count how many times I've been called a "faggot" on any live game.
It's anoyying, because I hate the word.
What annoys me more is that most of these people would allow lesbians to be in the game, just because with the stereotype that video-game characters have oversized breasts, and they'd be seeing it on their screen, they could fap one off without going to their computer and looking 'hentai' up on google images.

Most gamers aren't ready, like most of the world, to see this in every day life. It would'nt sell well, and it would get way too much controversy.

i thought his point was all charcters are steriotypes

is there a game out there whos main character is

cowardly,useless,stupid etc etc

so i recon make games where charcters have fatal flaws

Ugh... I hate it when people try to be politically correct. Why not have a character in a wheelchair? I don't give a flying fuck whether you're gay, straight, bi, black, white, Asian, or anything.

Agreed. TBH, we assume most characters are hetero, but without any romantic/sexual content, whose to say?

C Lion:
How exactly do you show that someone is gay in a game outside of either a romance scene or brutal stereotyping? Fact is it's just not something easy or, in my opinion, worthwhile to flesh out. Sure, if you want the main character to be gay and have a romance sub-plot then congratulations, you've managed to work it in there, but it has to make sense. Just injecting gay people for the sake of it would be retarded.

Agreed. TBH, we assume most characters are hetero, but without any romantic/sexual content, whose to say?

Isn't putting gay characters into games just for the sake of having gay characters kinda against the point of true tolerence, because it reinforces the stereotype that gays are different from straights, and should be treated differently? A character should be gay for a reason, not just to appease pressure groups.

hey wait

coulden't u be a lesbian in mass effect well sort of?

iamnotsteve:
I'm surprised Bridget and God Hand haven't come up yet.

ohhhh shit God Hand *shudders* that was horrific i thought the Japanese were fairly open to ideas like homosexuality, they attacked by thrusting at you

minoes:

Well most fifteen year olds think lesbians are "hot". I don´t think they would buy games with "male" gay main characters.

Again, who really knows what a characters sexuality is until he/she/it/they reveal it?

If the characters sexuality actually effects the game, then we're talking T&A.

There's gay people in all japanese games, they're just put in ridiculous clothes, and passed as "Emo".

Well like most people say most gamers are homofobic (for what reasons are thier own) but sometimes having homosexual characters in games can add a good twist to it. Take the game enchanted arms, now I rented that game over a year ago and out of all the characters only one realy stuck out and that was makoto, and for anyone who has ever played the game you know what I mean. Now I did't know there was a character like him in the game but there is and his personality was alittle stereotype, but still his presence was a nice addition in the game that made it more enjoyable, well for me it was.

I guess none of you have played Persona 4. One character in that game isn't exactly outright gay, but there are some issues of confused sexuality in there.

Ugh, these conversations cause the bile to well up in my esophagus. Let's forget for a moment that gays make up 1% of the population, so why are we always pandering to them? But more importantly why even entertain the prospect that political correctness, that has done nothing but ruin every other source of art and media, be shoved into gaming? I roll my eyes disapprovingly every time it's suggested that Zangief is gay, because no one was saying that until about 2 years ago and his percieved homosexuality is fully based on stereotypes. Also I've never, ever found any credible information that points to the fact that he was designed to be gay. And if his gayity is legit, it was most likely retconned in recent years.

johnx61:
Ugh, these conversations cause the bile to well up in my esophagus. Let's forget for a moment that gays make up 1% of the population, so why are we always pandering to them? But more importantly why even entertain the prospect that political correctness, that has done nothing but ruin every other source of art and media, be shoved into gaming? I roll my eyes disapprovingly every time it's suggested that Zangief is gay, because no one was saying that until about 2 years ago and his percieved homosexuality is fully based on stereotypes. Also I've never, ever found any credible information that points to the fact that he was designed to be gay. And if his gayity is legit, it was most likely retconned in recent years.

Can you really pin down a definite figure for how many gays are out there? Maybe if you mean the really flamboyant obvious type, sure, but there's a whole wide range of sexuality that doesn't quite fall into the "absolutely straight" and "absolutely flamingly gay" categories. More of a sliding scale, if you get my drift, with most people on the more or less straight end of the scale.

edit: I'll point out, I'm against shoving PC crap into games just for the sake of making certain groups happy. If a game developer wants to address an issue like homosexuality, it could work, but it would have to be natural and make sense in the context of the game. For example, making an FPS with a main character who just happens to be gay and spends the rest of the game killing/exploding things and occasionally bringing up the fact that yes, he is gay, would just be stupid, but I think someone's mentioned that already.

Gravity Train:

johnx61:
Ugh, these conversations cause the bile to well up in my esophagus. Let's forget for a moment that gays make up 1% of the population, so why are we always pandering to them? But more importantly why even entertain the prospect that political correctness, that has done nothing but ruin every other source of art and media, be shoved into gaming? I roll my eyes disapprovingly every time it's suggested that Zangief is gay, because no one was saying that until about 2 years ago and his percieved homosexuality is fully based on stereotypes. Also I've never, ever found any credible information that points to the fact that he was designed to be gay. And if his gayity is legit, it was most likely retconned in recent years.

Can you really pin down a definite figure for how many gays are out there? Maybe if you mean the really flamboyant obvious type, sure, but there's a whole wide range of sexuality that doesn't quite fall into the "absolutely straight" and "absolutely flamingly gay" categories. More of a sliding scale, if you get my drift, with most people on the more or less straight end of the scale.

I fail to see your point. Even if, as you say, there are more gay people out there then the ones that openly define themselves as such, there aren't that many more.

Fightgarr:
Wasn't Snake gay?

I don't think so; I hear he likes the box.

Probably bi.

johnx61:

Gravity Train:

johnx61:
Ugh, these conversations cause the bile to well up in my esophagus. Let's forget for a moment that gays make up 1% of the population, so why are we always pandering to them? But more importantly why even entertain the prospect that political correctness, that has done nothing but ruin every other source of art and media, be shoved into gaming? I roll my eyes disapprovingly every time it's suggested that Zangief is gay, because no one was saying that until about 2 years ago and his percieved homosexuality is fully based on stereotypes. Also I've never, ever found any credible information that points to the fact that he was designed to be gay. And if his gayity is legit, it was most likely retconned in recent years.

Can you really pin down a definite figure for how many gays are out there? Maybe if you mean the really flamboyant obvious type, sure, but there's a whole wide range of sexuality that doesn't quite fall into the "absolutely straight" and "absolutely flamingly gay" categories. More of a sliding scale, if you get my drift, with most people on the more or less straight end of the scale.

I fail to see your point. Even if, as you say, there are more gay people out there then the ones that openly define themselves as such, there aren't that many more.

My point is none of us knows what anyone else does in his own house (or possibly in a seedy motel room) and that the strict dividing line between "straight" and "gay" is something society made up. And anyway, the video game for the most part probably isn't the proper medium to bring up these issues. Even if they do count as art.

personally, despite being partial to a bit of man-love myself, don't really want to see gays in games. I couldn't care less what a character's bedroom habits are- there are more important things to be doing in games.

Bioshock's protagonist, Gordon freeman, Thief's Garrett, Morrowind's nerevarine... It makes no difference to me what their orientation is, they're not there for that. And that's without mentioning the bit-part NPCs who I care even less about.

Mordecai from Borderlands is homosexual.

I'm also surprised no one brought up Bully.

That game certainly didn't destroy society.

A game company isn't acceptive of gay people if they don't put in a character that is gay in their game? Is that the point you're making or did i miss it?

That seems to be the gist of the article. The disturbing thing is that writer talks about how games aren't "progressing", as if the developers have a duty to shoehorn a bunch of racial, gender and sexual issues into every single game they make. That's the last thing I want to see.

Meh I would argue that many games, and alot of western gamers are latently homosexual or sexually confused. Just look at the lack of women in so many shooters, and the lack of the female heroine barring a few notable exceptions in general. The idea that female main characters will cause a game to not sell as well. The complete disappearance of women from some franchises (Reisistance.), the hyper masculinity of other games (Gears of War, UT.), the paranoia that seemingly half the internet displayed because of the mere existence of Jade Raymond, the tea bagging, the abuse of the word faggot, the list goes on and on. (I personally think that those who abuse the term faggot so much are just projecting their own homosexuality which they do not want to admit to onto others.)

To sum it up I think that there is a rather sizeable contingent of "Larry Craigs" out there in the gaming world.

AuntyEthel:
Isn't putting gay characters into games just for the sake of having gay characters kinda against the point of true tolerence, because it reinforces the stereotype that gays are different from straights, and should be treated differently? A character should be gay for a reason, not just to appease pressure groups.

What "reason"? Do people need a reason to be straight, too? To be black?

I agree that it's not "true tolerance" to do something to appease pressure groups. True tolerance would be to default to a diverse cast unless there is reason to do something else.

new_age_reject:

The_root_of_all_evil:
Does it really matter that much what a character's sexual preference is? Gordon Freeman could quite easily be homosexual, but would it change any part of Half Life 2?

This, there just isn't really a way that you can insert a particular sexuality into a game without it seeming gimmicky.

true say, but what about Gears of War?, if you played as Marcus searching for Maloof, Dom's estranged arabian waiter friend?.

as an aside, I'd buy a game twice if the major plot was to save gay morocan waiters.

I'd love to see a game where the main character was in a wheelchair only because it would all but force the team doing such a game to think outside of the box.

The_root_of_all_evil:

Pyronox:

The_root_of_all_evil:
Does it really matter that much what a character's sexual preference is? Gordon Freeman could quite easily be homosexual, but would it change any part of Half Life 2?

Change Alyx to Alex and try to relive the moments of sexual tension of the game. Since you're immersed in Gordon, as you're him, it would make it a little awkward, no?

Ah, but imagine Gordon attracted to G-Man but not interested in Alyx, as he seems to be. No change really, is there? We're not talking about changing the game, just his reactions.

I would say, in the case of Gordon, I think it was a mistake on Valves part naming him and giving him a face. When I play HL Gordons emotional reaction to persons and situations are mine. And so, when I play Gordon he is interested in Alyx. And Alyx sure seem interested in him. But another person playing might be more interested in Judith (or Barney for that matter). It really has no effect on the game and it's up to the player to decide. I think that's cool.
What I mean is, my Gordon is most likely a different Gordon than others play. My Gordon makes snide comments all the time. Others might not. In that way I think HL really is a perfect roleplaying game. It leaves it up to me to determine who Gordon is. My Gordon messes around in Elis lab and has other small quirks. Just like my guy in Bioshock is probably slightly different than others.
My Gordon is not gay, but others might be. That's also why I think a name and a face is a problem. It takes a little of my control of the character away.

On to Uncharted as was mentioned. Well, that's a different game. Nathan Drake is a more fleshed out character. When I play Uncharted I just control Drake. I don't decide who he is. The guys who wrote it could have written him as a homosexual or a girl. I wouldn't care if the game was good. As long as the sexuality is not just a forced gimmick but rather a part of the character I don't mind. Now, Uncharted being what it is, a gay Nathan would be rather unlikely but still, it could be interesting.

The sexuality of a character doesn't matter to me as long as it's not the center of attention. I don't feel like playing a game about a guy looking to score some pussy (Larry does not count) just as I don't want to play a game about coming out. No offence, but that's what I watch movies and reads books about. I realise that it is of great importance to a lot of people and I actually find the whole thing very interesting, but I don't wanna game about it.

Hmm, that got a bit out of hand. Sorry about that.

Edit:

ColdStorage:

true say, but what about Gears of War?, if you played as Marcus searching for Maloof, Dom's estranged arabian waiter friend?.

as an aside, I'd buy a game twice if the major plot was to save gay morocan waiters.

That would be an awesome plot. I can see it in my mind. Best.Game.Ever.