How could God Hand possibly be more gay?

personally i thought the guy in indigo prophecy was a little too stereotypical. i could tell he was supposed to be gay the second i heard his voice.

a gay friend and i discuss why there's so few positively-portrayed gay characters in games, and it's basically the same reason why there's so few Peruvians and Paraguayans; there simply aren't enough character designers with theproper cultural understanding

I'd be remiss if I didn't give credit to http://www.escapistmagazine.com/articles/view/issues/issue_176/5485-Global-Games-Local-Perspectives for inspiring me.

EDIT: Oh yeah, i almost forgot. a design team i was on came up with a concept with two female leads. we had an inside joke about including a lesbian sex scene, but we decided on leaving it intentionally vague. as it turns out, i later learned that one of the team members was fairly religious and probably pretty uncomfortable with the whole idea, so i'm glad we didn't go with something more blatant.

Having hetero relationships in a game is simply the safer option. Perhaps in the future we can toggle a preference switch at character creation if we're going to have a love interest character thrust upon us (so a gay gamer could chose manlove to have Alex instead of Alyx, Eddie instead of Elena, etc.).
Beyond that, there should be no classifications and any love interest in a game should be based solely upon who you as the character elect to pursue. Fable 2 had that right, at least, but not every game can have boatloads of straight/gay/bi NPCs roaming around for you to take home on a whim. Games like Half Life 2 and Uncharted really benefitted from the female sidekick/love interest character in terms of story and maybe in part that was because they weren't oversexualised eye candy. The interest was subtle and you could easily explain it away by simple comraderie or admiration if you don't like the idea of Nathan and Elena as a potential couple (in a 'we just escaped certain death about fifty times and I'm horny, damn it' way, naturally...)
But the simple fact is, it would have appealed far less to the mainstream gaming audience for Nathan Drake to have had an infatuated guy following him around. It's not a matter of outright homophobia, it's just the less-travelled path. Plus, there's enough drama stirred up from the media and religious groups when they put straight sex in a game. Imagine how they'd react to a gay protagonist! I can already see the Fox news report in my mind...

ACTIVISION DEVELOPS GAY SEX SIMULATOR
In the latest addition to their "Most Wanted" range of videogame titles, Activision follow up Call of Duty: World at War with their controversial homosexuality sim, Cock in Doody: Slam it Raw. In this game, targeted at impressionable teenage males, you take direct control of Major Schlong, a decorated Vietnam veteran who after years of prestigious service is conscripted into a secret US army test program in which his is psychologically tormented until he is twisted into a life of homosexual servitude to perverted Democrats. In this graphic depiction of REAL homosexual relationships, the player directs Maj. Schlong in first-person perspective through an ever increasingly depraved series of unsafe sex acts.
queergamers.com has forwarded us their review of the game, having received an advance copy. The first game to be played by homosexuals in the history of videogames has been offered generous nine stars out of five, and is considered "fabulous" by all participants.

More on this as it develops.

I think slipping in a homosexual side-character, or find out later that one of the characters is a homosexual would not be bad. However, if a homosexual main character would happen to appear, the homophobic portion of the gaming community would avoid that game like the plague.
Games do tend to fall back onto stereotypes pretty hard. I won't give examples for fear of offending someone. But you don't need to be a nit-picker to find stereotypes in most games.

shadow skill:
I'd love to see a game where the main character was in a wheelchair only because it would all but force the team doing such a game to think outside of the box.

Play Munches Oddyssey. Similar concept, but yeah, something awkward like that could make for really interesting game making.

Way to many homophobic gamers to make games that note homosexuality. Also, a lack of general gamer maturity ensures that no deep ideas will ever appear in video games(except for a few games that never become really popular).

TheNamlessGuy:
Well, ok, you can put "Gay people", or Homosexuals (<- Correct term, acording to my homosexual friends), BUT, alot of gamers are more homofobic than you might think! So it wouldn't sell well, which would upset the whole Homosexual-community... And things would go very bad.

I am not trying to offend. If it sounds like it, I'm sorry

Agreed, If you played on any online based platform. You'll notice the term homo, fag, queer, etc are used to joke, or insult other players. If you made a game where most of the characters are gay, most people would shun at even the thought of even trying the game.

Unless it was a yaoi based off some japanese title then most of your consumers would be Homosexuals and Craze anime fan girls.

"I like rainbows, Im not gay, but I support it." ~Demetri Martin

Are we assuming that games are only feature homosexual characters if they put a great big sign saying 'gay' on their back? Because I'm pretty sure Gears of War is all about the man love.

Decoy Doctorpus:
Are we assuming that games are only feature homosexual characters if they put a great big sign saying 'gay' on their back? Because I'm pretty sure Gears of War is all about the man love.

A couple of the achievement names for playign through Gears 1 in co-op were highly suspicious, including a partial Brokeback Mountain quote...
I wonder how deliberate the inclusion of Dom's wife into the Gears 2 storyline was.

shadow skill:
I'd love to see a game where the main character was in a wheelchair only because it would all but force the team doing such a game to think outside of the box.

Killer7. (not really) I also remember some award-winning indie game about a girl in a wheelchair that i forget the title of.

also one time i wrote a design document for a game whose main character couldn't move his arms. there's kind of a long story behind that one.

Fanboy:

Neither did master chiefs.

The game doesn't have to be different because of the character's sexuality. Would metroid be any different if Samus was just some dude? No, it wouldn't, but the angle that she was a woman did make the game more popular.

what about the "guy" from guilty gear 2? Bridget."

anyway having homosexuality in games is usally done to appeal to the main stream (lesbians!) and is rarely taken seriously outside of japan. anyone ever see Zega-Pain? right in the end it is revealed that the "hot guy" all the girls love and the main character (who lost his memeries at the start of the series) were "partners" and man kiss ensures.

What it comes down to for me is, how easy would it be for me to create a game that approaches this issue in an honest, mature, and sophisticated way given my separation from the issues involved.

The point of this article isn't just "the gays" it is really about any complex issue. I mean, how can I presume to create a game that examines lifestyles and cultures I am not a part of, am I capable of creating a piece of work that appreciates these elements when I question my own personal knowledge and appreciation of them and I know that I am not exposed or involved in these cultural points.

And this then intrinsically begs the question that given that should I?

I do think anyone who wants to travel these roads should treat it with respect though.

Kermi:

ACTIVISION DEVELOPS GAY SEX SIMULATOR
In the latest addition to their "Most Wanted" range of videogame titles, Activision follow up Call of Duty: World at War with their controversial homosexuality sim, Cock in Doody: Slam it Raw. In this game, targeted at impressionable teenage males, you take direct control of Major Schlong, a decorated Vietnam veteran who after years of prestigious service is conscripted into a secret US army test program in which his is psychologically tormented until he is twisted into a life of homosexual servitude to perverted Democrats. In this graphic depiction of REAL homosexual relationships, the player directs Maj. Schlong in first-person perspective through an ever increasingly depraved series of unsafe sex acts.
queergamers.com has forwarded us their review of the game, having received an advance copy. The first game to be played by homosexuals in the history of videogames has been offered generous nine stars out of five, and is considered "fabulous" by all participants.

To start on a tangent, that was spit-the-cock-out funny.

I have to admit, this is one of the few debates I've enjoyed reading all of on any forum lately. It's not a topic I remember seeing discussed much before.

It's a rather slippery slope for the developers, I'd imagine. Being gay, I wouldn't mind seeing more gay leads in games, but the lack of it in no way bothers me. I tend to agree completely that shoe-horning them in just for the sake of having them would be a huge mistake. This could even do more harm than good for the increased acceptance we have received over the last couple of decades.
Think about it. If a hypothetical homophobic gamer found him/herself subjected to more and more homosexuality in their games, it could serve to further their hatred and resentment. It's a bit of a stretch, I'll admit, but you get the picture.

Nutcase:
Most gamers are not teenagers, and the teenagers/gamers ratio will drop further as time goes on.

http://www.theaveragegamer.com/averagegamers/

Your site only takes in consideration PC gamers. Since I am also a PC gamer i wanted to let you know I am still a teenager. The GAMING community is more than just the PC seeing as the PC gaming industry has now become a MMO nerd zone, don't get me started on MMO's there is something severelly wrong with a game that you have to pay for without end to play it and sucks away at your social life.

Japanese are open to homosexuality, but its just when it gets to America they do change them into a female dike or EMO. This is happens in a lot of children's anime, and its the same for games that young people play. Games where homosexuals appear are the games played by mature players. I remember that in Lego Batman Poison Ivy and Cat woman where able to use their deadly kiss attacks on female enemies. Someone explained that females should not be kissing females in a kids game, I'm not sure if the developers changed it or thought that there was nothing wrong with that. I got to check for myself if its actually in there.

Does anyone remember Leisure suit Larry on XBOX? There was a non stereotypical lesbian that was later revealed on campus.

1337mokro:

Nutcase:
Most gamers are not teenagers, and the teenagers/gamers ratio will drop further as time goes on.

http://www.theaveragegamer.com/averagegamers/

Your site only takes in consideration PC gamers. Since I am also a PC gamer i wanted to let you know I am still a teenager. The GAMING community is more than just the PC seeing as the PC gaming industry has now become a MMO nerd zone, don't get me started on MMO's there is something severelly wrong with a game that you have to pay for without end to play it and sucks away at your social life.

Where does it say "PC gamers only" on the page, or in the research they link to?

Whats funny is how do we know that most videogame character AREN'T homosexual? Gordon Freeman, Solid Snake, Master Chief, Lara Croft, Luigi?

Like another poster said, alot of characters sexual orientation has nothing to do with the game.

The only way to let gamers know about their orientation is by creating a scene or dialog that shows us that. Once you do that though, it looks like a gimmick.

Unless I see a sequence where Lara croft is in a scene where she kisses a man in tomb raider, I'm saying shes gay. Either way, shes still TOMB RAIDER.

I think it is funny how many people here seem to assume that shooters are the only place to explore the idea of homosexuality.

To those who say that homosexuality doesn't change anything in the game, I ask you this: What about the romantic subplots in RPGs like Mass Effect and Jade Empire? You get nothing out of pursuing a relationship, and they have no real impact on the story. So, should we just not include the ability to form romantic relationships between your character and an NPC in your party in RPGs, because they don't add anything to the actual story? Hell, talking to your party members in RPGs doesn't add anything to the main story either. You see what I'm getting at? Saying homosexual characters don't "add anything" to the plot or "aren't necessary" is a pretty weak excuse when you consider that side quests, optional conversations, romantic subplots between your character and NPCs, and similar such things so heavily ingrained in RPGs are also additions that don't effect the main story. They are just extra things there for the player to explore if they so choose.

Instead of assuming that the developer has to MAKE you play a gay character or something, is it so strange a concept to take the Mass Effect route? Basically, what is the harm in making one of your party members lesbian/bisexual and/or one gay/bisexual? Romantic subplots between your character and an NPC, and optional conversations with your party, make up a big part of RPGs like Mass Effect, KOTOR, and Jade Empire. Making one or two of the characters bisexual or homosexual won't hurt anyone, and will only allow the homosexual gamers to have their own options for a romantic subplot that reflects their personal sexual preference. No one is FORCING you, a straight gamer, to go bareback riding with the homosexual male character, it is purely YOUR choice when handled in this way. YOU choose whether or not you want to pursue a homosexual relationship, and YOU choose how much you want to get into that particular character's backstory. If homosexuality makes you uncomfortable then fine, don't talk to that character or pursue a relationship after their sexual orientation comes up in an optional conversation, as opposed to saying that it shouldn't be there in the first place because it is just a "gimmick."

I'm just saying that I don't see what is so wrong about developers including deep, mature homosexual relationships in an RPG if handled in this fashion. In fact, it would be good for the industry if we started exploring mature issues like this. If we prove to the public that games are capable of deep, mature stories and issues, then we are one step closer to showing that video games aren't just toys for kids and irresponsible man-children. It will cause controversy, for sure, but it will help games get out of the hot seat faster by proving to people that they are as capable of exploring mature themes as novels and movies.

Nimbus:

new_age_reject:

The_root_of_all_evil:
Does it really matter that much what a character's sexual preference is? Gordon Freeman could quite easily be homosexual, but would it change any part of Half Life 2?

This, there just isn't really a way that you can insert a particular sexuality into a game without it seeming gimmicky.

I'm thirding this. I mean, how would stuff like this even come up whilst fighting aliens. "Eat lead Alien Scum! Also, I'm gay!"

Fourthing. The thing is, stating the main character in a game is homosexual (unless it had any real signifigance to the story), would come across as at best irrelevant, and at worst controversy-baiting. If it was made an integral part of the story, then it'd be ok, but I can't think of many instances where that would occur.

Mass Effect, you can be gay or lesbian, I don't think it should really matter to be honest, its only a game after all...

Xojins:

MessiahOfPants:
To be honest, stereotyping isn't exactly a bad thing. Over stereotyping is. Making a guy sound and act flamboyant isn't bad. I know many guys in the gay community that are like that. That being said, not all gays act flamboyant and not all lesbians are butch. I thought in Indigo Prophecy they added a gay character nicely. I think it's only bad when you make fun of the gay/lesbian character in a hurtful way.

It depends on who you ask. I have many gay friends, all of whom would feel differently about that kind of stereotyping. If you had one gay character in a game who was very flamboyant, that creates the image that all homosexuals act in such a manner, which emphasizes (perhaps unintentionally) that homosexuals are different from everyone else. If it was a gay character that was just a regular, average guy or girl, it wouldn't add that negative connotation.

See it seems to me what you're saying is, if we have a gay character who acts straight, it's ok for them to be in the game. I may be wrong, I'm not too clear on what you're saying. When I say flamboyant, I don't mean a guy who runs around with an over acted lisp, who hits on all the male characters, and constantly says his rump needs to be filled. I mean a guy who has a slight lisp, and who may check out a few hot guy characters. There's nothing wrong with that. And those who get offended by that are being far to politically correct. There really isn't a normal, everyone's different.

MessiahOfPants:

Xojins:

MessiahOfPants:
To be honest, stereotyping isn't exactly a bad thing. Over stereotyping is. Making a guy sound and act flamboyant isn't bad. I know many guys in the gay community that are like that. That being said, not all gays act flamboyant and not all lesbians are butch. I thought in Indigo Prophecy they added a gay character nicely. I think it's only bad when you make fun of the gay/lesbian character in a hurtful way.

It depends on who you ask. I have many gay friends, all of whom would feel differently about that kind of stereotyping. If you had one gay character in a game who was very flamboyant, that creates the image that all homosexuals act in such a manner, which emphasizes (perhaps unintentionally) that homosexuals are different from everyone else. If it was a gay character that was just a regular, average guy or girl, it wouldn't add that negative connotation.

See it seems to me what you're saying is, if we have a gay character who acts straight, it's ok for them to be in the game. I may be wrong, I'm not too clear on what you're saying. When I say flamboyant, I don't mean a guy who runs around with an over acted lisp, who hits on all the male characters, and constantly says his rump needs to be filled. I mean a guy who has a slight lisp, and who may check out a few hot guy characters. There's nothing wrong with that. And those who get offended by that are being far to politically correct. There really isn't a normal, everyone's different.

I'm not saying that they should be "straight-acting," but I am saying that just because a character is homosexual doesn't mean he or she has to be a stereotype homosexual (lisp, trendy fashions, etc). I say this because stereotyping just asserts that all homosexuals act like that. The same goes for stereotyping any group.

P.S. I put "straight-acting" in quotation marks because there isn't such a thing.

mmofan1:
Japanese are open to homosexuality, but its just when it gets to America they do change them into a female dike or EMO. This is happens in a lot of children's anime, and its the same for games that young people play.

japanese media is more open about it, but it also tends to play to stereotypes in a far more offensive way.

And you were worried there wasn't enough gaiety in games:

Jamash:
Definitely The Man Festival from Shadow Hearts:Covenant.

The Man Festival

Although I don't think it's trying to be serious melodrama.

Liverandbacon:

Nimbus:

new_age_reject:

The_root_of_all_evil:
Does it really matter that much what a character's sexual preference is? Gordon Freeman could quite easily be homosexual, but would it change any part of Half Life 2?

This, there just isn't really a way that you can insert a particular sexuality into a game without it seeming gimmicky.

I'm thirding this. I mean, how would stuff like this even come up whilst fighting aliens. "Eat lead Alien Scum! Also, I'm gay!"

Fourthing. The thing is, stating the main character in a game is homosexual (unless it had any real signifigance to the story), would come across as at best irrelevant, and at worst controversy-baiting. If it was made an integral part of the story, then it'd be ok, but I can't think of many instances where that would occur.

Fifthted.

You can look at it the other way too, having the player say "eat lead alien scum, btw Im straight" is just as pointless. It does not affect the game in any way except for making it kinda dumb looking.

out0v0rder:
You can look at it the other way too, having the player say "eat lead alien scum, btw Im straight" is just as pointless. It does not affect the game in any way except for making it kinda dumb looking.

Well, the same could be said about anything, race for instance, and yet RE5 has gotten a lot of grief about its use of African characters.

On a purely mechanical level, game's may not be able to deal directly with these issues. But there are very few games that are purely mechanical. As the referenced article described, Metal Gear Solid 4 examined homosexuality in a mature, non-gimmicky / stereotyped way.

Offset that with Mass Effect that somehow managed to slip in more than one lesbian encounter if you played a female character, yet didn't even hint at any gay encounters. You could argue they didn't need to include sex in the game at all (arguable in a story driven universe) and if they were doing anything more sophisticated and mature than trying to appeal to fanboys with more hand lotion than phone numbers there would have been a gay character to strike up a romance with.

It's doubly offensive with mass effect because it says that even in a sophisticated, industry leading product, the primary audience is one that is grossed out by gay males, but finds two girls kissing hot. So much for games as the next new art form, with messages like this being conveyed it suggests that games are little more than soft core porn with explosions designed for an emotionally immature audience.

Pyronox:
[snip]
As for homophobes, even if you don't act like it or think you aren't, I'm sure about 99% of guys are afraid that a gay guy will hit on them at some point. (You know it)

<neuter>

Actually, not really. If a dude hits on you, it's the exact same as if a girl you weren't interested in hit on you. "No thanks, I'm not interested," where interested can be replaced with gay or single or whatever. Not really that freaky.
Now cockroaches. Cockroaches are fucking terrifying and anyone who disagrees is WRONG.

Kyuumi:
Mass Effect, you can be gay or lesbian

False. As a male you cannot pursue Kaiden. As a female, you cannot pursue Ashley. Liara, although she looks female amd can be pursued by either gender of player, does not have a gender.

I'd love to see a really stereotypically gay character in Gears of War.

Liverandbacon:
If it was made an integral part of the story, then it'd be ok, but I can't think of many instances where that would occur.

most people can't. that's the problem.

MA7743W:
I'd love to see a really stereotypically gay character in Gears of War.

i'd rather he be a hulking man-beast like the rest of the COG. then there's a scene where you see him hug his partner or something and he's all like "what? i'm gay." and then marcus sort of shrugs and they go back to butchering locust.

that or make him the next carmine.

games like morrowind could, why they generally dont? fear probably, the marketing department controlls all and i know that at least in this country, homosexual people arent viewed as homosexual PEOPLE by a sizable portion of the population. games like halo could not, i dont think theres a homosexual/heterosexual way to shoot someone, to be honest i would be VERY suprised if there was.

cobra_ky:

Liverandbacon:
If it was made an integral part of the story, then it'd be ok, but I can't think of many instances where that would occur.

most people can't. that's the problem.

MA7743W:
I'd love to see a really stereotypically gay character in Gears of War.

i'd rather he be a hulking man-beast like the rest of the COG. then there's a scene where you see him hug his partner or something and he's all like "what? i'm gay." and then marcus sort of shrugs and they go back to butchering locust.

that or make him the next carmine.

Perhaps I should clarify: It's not homosexuality I have a problem with in these cases, its the fact that any mention of a character's sexuality, whether heterosexual, homosexual, or anything else, is completely irrelevant in most games. The few games where sexuality has made any difference are in RPGs, and I've seen plenty of homosexual romance options in those, which I'm fine with, because they add to the story.

While amusing, the idea of that Gears of War scene is exactly the sort of thing I'm against. The way you portrayed it (hug scene, mentions gayness, everyone goes back to killing locust) would be irrelevant to the story, the gameplay, and everything else. It would seem like unneccesary controversy-baiting.

742:
i dont think theres a homosexual/heterosexual way to shoot someone, to be honest i would be VERY suprised if there was.

The legions of 12 year olds who shout "GAY!" into their microphones when I defeat them would disagree :p. To quote two people who I forget the names of on this forum (if it's you, tell me and I'll edit credit in):

And yeah, apparently a lot of things online are gay nowadays, weapons, tactics, etc. I see where people are coming from though, it's like these days you can't walk down the street without seeing 2 sniper rifles having ass sex.

That's actually a common misconception... most gay rifles only perform oral, not anal

...but I think a more important question is.
Is gayity really a word??

Why is it important?

Sure Homosexual people want to be represented in games, but what does it add plot wise/game wise

Games with manly men killing things are usually taking inspiration from male action films and stuff and cannot be burdened with the task of showing sexuality-If It never mattered before in Movies etc

MaxTheReaper:

Pyronox:
[snip]
As for homophobes, even if you don't act like it or think you aren't, I'm sure about 99% of guys are afraid that a gay guy will hit on them at some point. (You know it)

<neuter>

Actually, not really. If a dude hits on you, it's the exact same as if a girl you weren't interested in hit on you. "No thanks, I'm not interested," where interested can be replaced with gay or single or whatever. Not really that freaky.
Now cockroaches. Cockroaches are fucking terrifying and anyone who disagrees is WRONG.

Agreed, Especially the kind you find on islands in the pacific THE SIZE OF RATS.