why do we rarley get any good 3d platformers anymore

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i mean we get good 2d and 2.5d platformers so why not many good 3d ones

i mean back on 5-6th gen of gaming we got great ones like banjo kazooie,spyro,ape escape,psychonauts,jak and daxter precurser legacy and so many more

now all we ever get for 3d platformers are either some licenced games or a generic 3d platformer that noones gonna care about

sure we get some that get positive reviews but there mostly on nintendo system(thats not a bad thing but people uslualy game on sony and microsoft systems nowerdays)

i mean why dont we get many good 3d platformers anymore is it because the ganre is abit well dated or is it because most of them are just not for our age demographic i dunno what do you guys think?

Platformers just really sorta died down. Back in the day, every company would make 3D platformers because at the time, mainly mid-90's they were popular since the technology finally allowed for people to make them. But over time the novelty wore off and by the early-2000's not many people would make 3D platformers because they weren't really worth it as much. By the early 2000's people were starting to get more into games with more stories or that had RPG elements. I mean you can still find 3D platformers, but they generally are in the mixed genre category because most of the time 3D platformers were basically collectathons that tried to get the lighting that struck Mario 64 and Banjo Kazooie to strike.
The only really big collectathon that's set to come out is A Hat in Time, which I can't wait for.

Really in the late 90's to early 2000's, the in thing were the Tony Hawk games that Activision were making, so many attempts to ape that were made. Later on it switched to shooters, and more specifically Modern Military Shooters. It goes in cycles really, because inbetween the Modern Military Shooter craze and the skateboarding craze were the rhythm games.

Does Mirror's Edge count? Because I thought that was awesome! Portal too surely?

Tom_green_day:
Does Mirror's Edge count? Because I thought that was awesome! Portal too surely?

I think the OP might be thinking of the 3D Platformers like how Mario 64, Sunshine, Banjo Kazooie, and how A Hat in Time is. Basically collectathons.

Neronium:
Platformers just really sorta died down. Back in the day, every company would make 3D platformers because at the time, mainly mid-90's they were popular since the technology finally allowed for people to make them. But over time the novelty wore off and by the early-2000's not many people would make 3D platformers because they weren't really worth it as much. By the early 2000's people were starting to get more into games with more stories or that had RPG elements. I mean you can still find 3D platformers, but they generally are in the mixed genre category because most of the time 3D platformers were basically collectathons that tried to get the lighting that struck Mario 64 and Banjo Kazooie to strike.
The only really big collectathon that's set to come out is A Hat in Time, which I can't wait for.

Really in the late 90's to early 2000's, the in thing were the Tony Hawk games that Activision were making, so many attempts to ape that were made. Later on it switched to shooters, and more specifically Modern Military Shooters. It goes in cycles really, because inbetween the Modern Military Shooter craze and the skateboarding craze were the rhythm games.

maybe they will make a comeback one day ^^

Maybe the day people remember Kameo.

your last rare banjo kazooie like game.

thesupremegamer:

maybe they will make a comeback one day ^^

If A Hat in Time is successful then it might show that the 3D platforming collectathons are successful even today. The game was inspired by Banjo Kazooie and Mario 64. It should be coming out this year on the PC, and it's apparently gonna get a Wii U port some time in the future.
I backed A Hat in Time so I'm already getting it. Sadly didn't do enough to get an Alpha build specifically for me.

Eve Charm:
Maybe the day people remember Kameo.

your last rare banjo kazooie like game.

that was more of a adventure game than a platformer

In the late 90's they were even more overdone than guitar games were, FPS is now, a lot of gamers at the time got completely overwhelmed with them to the point that they grew to despise them. I remember at one point finding it hard to find new releases that hadn't jumped on the bandwagon.

Think about "instrument" band/hero, sing star as an example, even ten years from now would you be really up for buying yet another one in the series? and compared to the slew of platformers back then, they were only a little overdone.

If you think that the average age of a gamer is 28, and the most frequent purchasers are 35, the core audience still remembers what the market was like, and isn't keen to go back to it.

Unkillable Cat:
In the late 90's they were even more overdone than guitar games were, FPS is now, a lot of gamers at the time got completely overwhelmed with them to the point that they grew to despise them. I remember at one point finding it hard to find new releases that hadn't jumped on the bandwagon.

Think about "instrument" band/hero, sing star as an example, even ten years from now would you be really up for buying yet another one in the series? and compared to the slew of platformers back then, they were only a little overdone.

If you think that the average age of a gamer is 28, and the most frequent purchasers are 35, the core audience still remembers what the market was like, and isn't keen to go back to it.

Well im keen to go back to it, specially with games like Mirror's Edge showing how you can still innovate the genre.
And im still waiting for my Guitar Hero: Death Metal or my Guitar Hero: Power, Symphonic, Epic, etc. Metal although i know that wont happen.
As long as we dont get swarmed by tons of games of the same genre im fine with 3D platformers returning, and THEY WILL, as soon as the people who does 2D and 2.5D platformers starts moving on :)

Unkillable Cat:
In the late 90's they were even more overdone than guitar games were, FPS is now, a lot of gamers at the time got completely overwhelmed with them to the point that they grew to despise them. I remember at one point finding it hard to find new releases that hadn't jumped on the bandwagon.

Think about "instrument" band/hero, sing star as an example, even ten years from now would you be really up for buying yet another one in the series? and compared to the slew of platformers back then, they were only a little overdone.

If you think that the average age of a gamer is 28, and the most frequent purchasers are 35, the core audience still remembers what the market was like, and isn't keen to go back to it.

yeah i usualy play games like spyro for nostalga

thesupremegamer:
i mean we get good 2d and 2.5d platformers so why not many good 3d ones

i mean back on 5-6th gen of gaming we got great ones like banjo kazooie,spyro,ape escape,psychonauts,jak and daxter precurser legacy and so many more

now all we ever get for 3d platformers are either some licenced games or a generic 3d platformer that noones gonna care about

sure we get some that get positive reviews but there mostly on nintendo system(thats not a bad thing but people uslualy game on sony and microsoft systems nowerdays)

i mean why dont we get many good 3d platformers anymore is it because the ganre is abit well dated or is it because most of them are just not for our age demographic i dunno what do you guys think?

The problem is, /great/ 3D platformers have always been rare. You named just about all of them, I doubt you're missing more than five games/series. Crappy 3D platformers flooded the market there for a while, and I think that more than anything else is why we don't get them anymore, either the good ones or the bad ones. It was a genre that just didn't make the leap from 2D to 3D all that gracefully on the whole, even if there were a number of truly great games inside of it that did.

Doesn't bother me, honestly. Was never too keen on 3D platformers aside from Mario 64. Hey, would Assassin's Creed count? There's a fair bit of platforming action in it. Not challenging, but there.

Owyn_Merrilin:

thesupremegamer:
i mean we get good 2d and 2.5d platformers so why not many good 3d ones

i mean back on 5-6th gen of gaming we got great ones like banjo kazooie,spyro,ape escape,psychonauts,jak and daxter precurser legacy and so many more

now all we ever get for 3d platformers are either some licenced games or a generic 3d platformer that noones gonna care about

sure we get some that get positive reviews but there mostly on nintendo system(thats not a bad thing but people uslualy game on sony and microsoft systems nowerdays)

i mean why dont we get many good 3d platformers anymore is it because the ganre is abit well dated or is it because most of them are just not for our age demographic i dunno what do you guys think?

The problem is, /great/ 3D platformers have always been rare. You named just about all of them, I doubt you're missing more than five games/series. Crappy 3D platformers flooded the market there for a while, and I think that more than anything else is why we don't get them anymore, either the good ones or the bad ones. It was a genre that just didn't make the leap from 2D to 3D all that gracefully on the whole, even if there were a number of truly great games inside of it that did.

yeah but the ones that where great where really really great (hell ape escape 2 is in my top 10 fav games ever its that awesome)

thesupremegamer:

Owyn_Merrilin:

thesupremegamer:
i mean we get good 2d and 2.5d platformers so why not many good 3d ones

i mean back on 5-6th gen of gaming we got great ones like banjo kazooie,spyro,ape escape,psychonauts,jak and daxter precurser legacy and so many more

now all we ever get for 3d platformers are either some licenced games or a generic 3d platformer that noones gonna care about

sure we get some that get positive reviews but there mostly on nintendo system(thats not a bad thing but people uslualy game on sony and microsoft systems nowerdays)

i mean why dont we get many good 3d platformers anymore is it because the ganre is abit well dated or is it because most of them are just not for our age demographic i dunno what do you guys think?

The problem is, /great/ 3D platformers have always been rare. You named just about all of them, I doubt you're missing more than five games/series. Crappy 3D platformers flooded the market there for a while, and I think that more than anything else is why we don't get them anymore, either the good ones or the bad ones. It was a genre that just didn't make the leap from 2D to 3D all that gracefully on the whole, even if there were a number of truly great games inside of it that did.

yeah but the ones that where great where really really great (hell ape escape 2 is in my top 10 fav games ever its that awesome)

This is true, unfortunately corporations can get /really/ skittish when they see a series of failures, and they have a tendency to assume it's the basic idea that's the problem, instead of the execution. To give an example from another genre, there's apparently a bit of a feud between Freespace 2 fans and Wing Commander fans, because Freespace 2 supposedly sold so poorly that it made the corporate types unwilling to invest the resources into other games in the genre. Now I'm sure the reality involves more than just the one game crashing and burning (especially since it's now pretty widely regarded as one of, if not the best game in the history of the genre), but it wouldn't surprise me if it failed bad enough that it was the straw that broke the back of an already flagging genre. Over a decade later we're just now getting the first high profile release since that market collapsed, and it's a kickstarter project from the man that created the genre in the first place -- the big publishers are still uninterested in space combat sims.

Owyn_Merrilin:

thesupremegamer:

Owyn_Merrilin:

The problem is, /great/ 3D platformers have always been rare. You named just about all of them, I doubt you're missing more than five games/series. Crappy 3D platformers flooded the market there for a while, and I think that more than anything else is why we don't get them anymore, either the good ones or the bad ones. It was a genre that just didn't make the leap from 2D to 3D all that gracefully on the whole, even if there were a number of truly great games inside of it that did.

yeah but the ones that where great where really really great (hell ape escape 2 is in my top 10 fav games ever its that awesome)

This is true, unfortunately corporations can get /really/ skittish when they see a series of failures, and they have a tendency to assume it's the basic idea that's the problem, instead of the execution. To give an example from another genre, there's apparently a bit of a feud between Freespace 2 fans and Wing Commander fans, because Freespace 2 supposedly sold so poorly that it made the corporate types unwilling to invest the resources into other games in the genre. Now I'm sure the reality involves more than just the one game crashing and burning (especially since it's now pretty widely regarded as one of, if not the best game in the history of the genre), but it wouldn't surprise me if it failed bad enough that it was the straw that broke the back of an already flagging genre. Over a decade later we're just now getting the first high profile release since that market collapsed, and it's a kickstarter project from the man that created the genre in the first place -- the big publishers are still uninterested in space combat sims.

oh and i forgot about rayman 2 and conkers bad fur day those where good 2 XD

this can also be said about visual novel and point and click ones most suck but the ones who are good are good

Dead Century:
Doesn't bother me, honestly. Was never too keen on 3D platformers aside from Mario 64. Hey, would Assassin's Creed count? There's a fair bit of platforming action in it. Not challenging, but there.

I never thought of Assassin's Creed as a platformer, collectathon. But it does seem to fit, I don't think there needs to be lava, spikes, or an endless pit to be considered a platformer. Assasins creed has a ton of collectibles that can be earned when you complete a platforming challenge.

What about infamous, that could be considered a platformar

PapaGreg096:
What about infamous, that could be considered a platformar

It's considered more of a sandbox game really, like how the Grand Theft Auto games, well from 3 and up, are considered sandbox games. In the case with Platformers in which the OP is talking about, it's more like the collectathons that used to be made ad nauseam during the late 90's to try and catch the magical lightning that struck the Banjo games, Mario 64, Donkey Kong 64, and Conker...man Rareware made a lot of the most famous collectathons didn't they?

Neronium:

PapaGreg096:
What about infamous, that could be considered a platformar

It's considered more of a sandbox game really, like how the Grand Theft Auto games, well from 3 and up, are considered sandbox games. In the case with Platformers in which the OP is talking about, it's more like the collectathons that used to be made ad nauseam during the late 90's to try and catch the magical lightning that struck the Banjo games, Mario 64, Donkey Kong 64, and Conker...man Rareware made a lot of the most famous collectathons didn't they?

i woudnt say conker was a collector more of a comedy game that poked fun of movies XD

i mean one of the bosses in it is a opra singing piece of dung for gods sake dosent get more strange than that XD

thesupremegamer:

i woudnt say conker was a collector more of a comedy game that poked fun of movies XD

i mean one of the bosses in it is a opra singing piece of dung for gods sake dosent get more strange than that XD

True, I realize that Conker isn't necessarily a 3D platforming collectathon when compared to the likes of DK 64, way too many collectables in that game I swear, or the Banjo games. My bad, I was just thinking about the cash wads and my mine regressed back to the 90's when it came to collecting even the simplest of things.

Neronium:

thesupremegamer:

i woudnt say conker was a collector more of a comedy game that poked fun of movies XD

i mean one of the bosses in it is a opra singing piece of dung for gods sake dosent get more strange than that XD

True, I realize that Conker isn't necessarily a 3D platforming collectathon when compared to the likes of DK 64, way too many collectables in that game I swear, or the Banjo games. My bad, I was just thinking about the cash wads and my mine regressed back to the 90's when it came to collecting even the simplest of things.

that was like the only collectable in the game

most of the game is south park style humour and pop culture references

Last good 3D platformer I have played was Mario Galaxy. And before that was Conker's Bad Fur Day. The problem is that the only really good 3D platformers was made by Rare other than Mario 64. Other's just palled in comparison.

Artaneius:
Last good 3D platformer I have played was Mario Galaxy. And before that was Conker's Bad Fur Day. The problem is that the only really good 3D platformers was made by Rare other than Mario 64. Other's just palled in comparison.

rarewere where gods of the n64 XD banjo kazooie FTW

but seriously play ape escape best platformer on sony console

Artaneius:
Other's just palled in comparison.

Someone has never played the Ape Escape games. :D
Ape Escape was Sony Computer Entertainment Japan Stuido's first ever game, and it was pretty well received. It's very unique in that it used both analog sticks, it being the first game to ever require the dualshock controller, and focused around capturing monkeys throughout time. The game is a lot of fun and I recommend it, and the music is pretty nice. Plus the villain's main theme is actually pretty menacing I think.

Now if you'll excuse me, I'll go and try to take these nostalgia glasses off. But in all seriousness, try out Ape Escape 1 if you haven't, it really is fun. Avoid the PSP remake though because that one is filled with loading screens, which is funny because a huge characteristic of the games is that there is little to no loading times, despite being on a disc.

Because 3D platformers rely on the MOTHER of challenges in game design: level design. There are NO shortcuts to good level design and since platforming lives and dies on carefully tested level design. Something goes off and it's just downhill. There is no other way to make good levels aside from just pounding away at them bit by bit until you got it down.

As someone who loves 3D platformers, I guess I am rather sad. Nintendo staples, Sonic (who is off-and-on in quality) and Ratchet can only satisfy me so long until I look back and play some Spyro. The simplest answer is "they're just not popular anymore" and odds are that's the bulk of the problem.

Though to add something different to the conversation, here's something else to think about. 3D platformers seem HARD to make, I guess since platformers in general demand precision jumping/movement/reactions by nature. There's a lot you need to get right moreso than in any other genre I know. Even things like a bad camera (look up Spyro 1 and then look up the Japanese version. I get physically sick playing with the Japanese version's camera), hazard spacing, level sizes, character speed, or jump archs can spoil the experience. I'm guessing they may be harder to market too, as most 3D platformers of yore are singleplayer, not full of story, and usually aimed for an E (sometimes T) audience.

EDIT: Damn it! Ninja'd right on top of me. Aren't you sly...

What about the last Sly Cooper game that came out for PS3? Was that any good? It seemed like Sony just shipped it off in the night without much fanfare. I got the older games in the HD collection in my backlog, I should get around to playing them.

Ratchet & Clank is usually pretty good. However, it's been a little bit since we've seen that duo.

There's also Nuts & Bolts but a lot of people really don't consider it to be a true platformer. For what it's worth though, the vehicle building itself was really well designed.

Captcha: fade away

... I don't usually point out captchas but this one made me get some feels.

Arnoxthe1:
Ratchet & Clank is usually pretty good. However, it's been a little bit since we've seen that duo.

Not really. Into the Nexus came out last November on the PS Vita and PS3. It's kinda short, but it's pretty damn great and plays a lot like how the old Ratchet and Clabk games played. It's the epilogue to the Future series of games on the PS3 as well.

Arnoxthe1:
Ratchet & Clank is usually pretty good. However, it's been a little bit since we've seen that duo.

There's also Nuts & Bolts but a lot of people really don't consider it to be a true platformer. For what it's worth though, the vehicle building itself was really well designed.

Captcha: fade away

... I don't usually point out captchas but this one made me get some feels.

isnt ratchet and clank more of a shooter its kinda like jet force gemini than anything

Raggedstar:
As someone who loves 3D platformers, I guess I am rather sad. Nintendo staples, Sonic (who is off-and-on in quality) and Ratchet can only satisfy me so long until I look back and play some Spyro. The simplest answer is "they're just not popular anymore" and odds are that's the bulk of the problem.

Though to add something different to the conversation, here's something else to think about. 3D platformers seem HARD to make, I guess since platformers in general demand precision jumping/movement/reactions by nature. There's a lot you need to get right moreso than in any other genre I know. Even things like a bad camera (look up Spyro 1 and then look up the Japanese version. I get physically sick playing with the Japanese version's camera), hazard spacing, level sizes, character speed, or jump archs can spoil the experience. I'm guessing they may be harder to market too, as most 3D platformers of yore are singleplayer, not full of story, and usually aimed for an E (sometimes T) audience.

EDIT: Damn it! Ninja'd right on top of me. Aren't you sly...

sonic went downhill after heroes (i only like heroes for nostalga ^^)

conkers bad fur day was rated M its the only m rated platformer ever XD (unless you count alice the madness returns as one)

actualy psychonauts had one of the best storys for a platformer it was very hilarious kinds reminded me of something youd see on invader zim XD

The likelihood of platformers making a major comeback is about the same as stoner rock/retro doom getting on pop rock radio. If you face the goddamn facts, as fun as platformers tend to be, they automatically get stamped with the "kiddie" label and, in this day and age, that's virtually a death sentence towards getting publicity. People assume that we've been there, done that, and that we shouldn't waste hardware on what we perfected years ago.
Then you have those who say that 3D platformers could never be as good as their 2D parents, the reason being "camera issues, control issues, plainly needing to watch shadows, collect this, collect that, and done."

Because 3D platformers (purportedly) make substantially less money than their misnomer "mature" brethren, they're more likely to be dragged down by crap budgets. This is despite all evidence that platformers, 2D or otherwise, still have a massive audience. And if you want to say that Minecraft, Angry Birds, Braid, etc. are the "grunge" of gaming, then why can't we have a sort of platformer "retro" revival too?

I understand that I sound all over the place; let me iterate that I do love platformers. Particularly, 3D Platformers. Sure, I feel the same niggling way many others do, that they still haven't been done perfectly, but right now the odds seem set against them. What with the Rift on its way, there's a high chance that it'll revitalize the first person market, and the only way platformers could make any sort of headway is if they follow Mirror's Edge's example, or pull their own little "riff rock indie mix" and do something that's never been done before.

Arslan Aladeen:
What about the last Sly Cooper game that came out for PS3? Was that any good? It seemed like Sony just shipped it off in the night without much fanfare. I got the older games in the HD collection in my backlog, I should get around to playing them.

Sly Cooper Theives in Time suffered the same thing that the Wonderful 101 did, the company that made them didn't advertise them for shit after doing some little things. Sly 4 received very fair reviews and did pretty game good, the game is great fun and I love the humor. But sales wise, it bombed like Wonderful 101, although it did a little better than that one. In 1 month, the game only sold around 200k copies, and Wonderful 101 only sold around 100k in it's first month. Sanzaru didn't have the crazy expectations to sell like 8 million in a month, but that's still a failure all around unfortuately. They might still do a Sly 5, which I don't mind because Sanzaru did a great job with 4, but on the bright side they didn't go defunct, so that's a plus. :D

As for Sly 1-3, 2 and 3 are more like collectathons. Sly Cooper and the Thievious Raccoonus (Sly 1) plays more like Crash Bandicoot Warped actually, and it's not that bad.

thesupremegamer:
isnt ratchet and clank more of a shooter its kinda like jet force gemini than anything

Yeah, about half of it is 3rd person shooting but the other half is straight up 3D platforming. I might also add that the Ratchet & Clank series have some of the best weapons I've seen in a game.

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