TotalBiscuit Takedown Notice

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Hohohohoho! It's Day One: Garry's Incident all over again! *Gets popcorn and fizzy drinks*
*Reads the thread a bit*
Wait a second, FUN didn't issue a copyright claim? What the hell is going on here? Seriously, what's going? Is YouTube so incompetent that it automatically issues non-existing copyright claims?

Small update: FUN appears to have deleted some of their dumbest tweets, although the smug attitude remains. Even if its true they didn't issue that takedown (which I don't even believe at this point) they have bought themselves a ton of negative PR just by behaving like jackasses.

Kyrdra:
So before everyone gets their pitchforks out please read this:
https://twitter.com/FUNCreators/statuses/433786209702117376
which links to this:
http://steamcommunity.com/app/259640/discussions/0/558746089682249264/

The developer say they didn't do it. So what we have here is conflicting information especially since TB said it got taken down by them.
Either way it reflects badly on youtube. If it was an imposter doing it they should check it better who flags something. If it was the devs then it is still bullshit to takedown the review simply because the footage shouldd be under fair use. Ohh yeah and if it is the latter shame on the devs

The system is automated, there is a decent chance that FUN didn't issues those claims but someone else did. The system is broken as hell and a fix is unlikely to be coming.

Kyrdra:
So before everyone gets their pitchforks out please read this:
https://twitter.com/FUNCreators/statuses/433786209702117376
which links to this:
http://steamcommunity.com/app/259640/discussions/0/558746089682249264/

The developer say they didn't do it. So what we have here is conflicting information especially since TB said it got taken down by them.
Either way it reflects badly on youtube. If it was an imposter doing it they should check it better who flags something. If it was the devs then it is still bullshit to takedown the review simply because the footage shouldd be under fair use. Ohh yeah and if it is the latter shame on the devs

That idea is a fabrication. They have sent him an e-mail saying they basically want him to shut up or they will sue him into the ground because they are bigger than him. When he went public with that e-mail they accused him of Photoshopping it like a 12 year old child.

FUN is 100% responsible for the take down but i do agree that the youtube system is broken on multiple levels. The fact a developer can do this then throw disparagement on someone's reaction to it is mind-boggling. All of this has generated a strike against his channel too.

They are being monumentally shady and stupid.

Just throwing this out there, but is there any chance that FUN's email (etc) as been hacked? It would explain a lot of the conflicting viewpoints here.

I'm not trying to be an apologist, it's just that there are so many mixed signals coming from them.

lunavixen:

Kyrdra:
So before everyone gets their pitchforks out please read this:
https://twitter.com/FUNCreators/statuses/433786209702117376
which links to this:
http://steamcommunity.com/app/259640/discussions/0/558746089682249264/

The developer say they didn't do it. So what we have here is conflicting information especially since TB said it got taken down by them.
Either way it reflects badly on youtube. If it was an imposter doing it they should check it better who flags something. If it was the devs then it is still bullshit to takedown the review simply because the footage shouldd be under fair use. Ohh yeah and if it is the latter shame on the devs

The system is automated, there is a decent chance that FUN didn't issues those claims but someone else did. The system is broken as hell and a fix is unlikely to be coming.

There's a decent chance that they're innocent yet doing their best to troll TB? What kind of sense does that make? Do you think bullies are trying to be good people or something?

krazykidd:

Mangod:
So... Total Biscuit/Cynical Brit/John Bain posted two videos on YouTube not too long ago, a first impressions-video for Guise of the Wolf, and a recording of the research stream for the same game. Guess which videos have been hit by takedown notices?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ask3Dn1ocIQ

... this is just unbelievable; do these people seriously not see how this kind of attempted censorship harms their product and reputation? And this isn't the first time, either; TB got hit with a takedown notice for his video on Day One: Garry's Incident as well when he blasted that game for being, pardon the language, utter garbage.

I can't wait to see how FUN Creators (yes, that's their name. FUN. I beg to differ) try to justify this, because I can't imagine this going over particularly well.

Captcha: third degree...

Well, I reckon FUN are gonna get burned by this.

Actually you know what ? I get it. Why would i want a bunch of randomers talking about my games. Especially if it's a bad game or they are known to say bad things about their games. Sure it's free publicity, but only if the reviewer liked it. If the reviewer hated it, and is a popular figure, then it's bad for business. Yes it's a way to control information about their games , but i do believe only certain people should be allowed to " review" games not every tom, dick and harry with a camera ( i'm not saying that's what total biscuit is).

Its not that i necessarily agree with the reasons for taking down/flagging videos. It's just that i understand where they are coming from.

TB sends them a form in which they ask the company permission to review the game with express purpose of monetizing said review. if everything is a go he makes the video if not he moves on. they are very much in the wrong on this one as they already made their bed with TB, now they have to sleep in it. it's also censorship in an attempt to deceive customers and control their own ratings which I would say is borderline illegal. it matters not where they're coming from, if EA did this we would demand their heads on a pike.

krazykidd:

Mangod:
So... Total Biscuit/Cynical Brit/John Bain posted two videos on YouTube not too long ago, a first impressions-video for Guise of the Wolf, and a recording of the research stream for the same game. Guess which videos have been hit by takedown notices?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ask3Dn1ocIQ

... this is just unbelievable; do these people seriously not see how this kind of attempted censorship harms their product and reputation? And this isn't the first time, either; TB got hit with a takedown notice for his video on Day One: Garry's Incident as well when he blasted that game for being, pardon the language, utter garbage.

I can't wait to see how FUN Creators (yes, that's their name. FUN. I beg to differ) try to justify this, because I can't imagine this going over particularly well.

Captcha: third degree...

Well, I reckon FUN are gonna get burned by this.

Actually you know what ? I get it. Why would i want a bunch of randomers talking about my games. Especially if it's a bad game or they are known to say bad things about their games. Sure it's free publicity, but only if the reviewer liked it. If the reviewer hated it, and is a popular figure, then it's bad for business. Yes it's a way to control information about their games , but i do believe only certain people should be allowed to " review" games not every tom, dick and harry with a camera ( i'm not saying that's what total biscuit is).

Its not that i necessarily agree with the reasons for taking down/flagging videos. It's just that i understand where they are coming from.

If you don't do a good job, you don't get paid, or you get fired, or both. If they made a good game they wouldnt have anything to worry about from ANY Reviewer, so no, to me, there is no justifiable reason to ever take down a review.

Plus, these flags are not just "Oh. We'll take down your one video" No. This is "If you get three, you are out of a job", How is it alright for them to protect their business and make money off a half baked game but not okay for any "tom, dick and harry with a camera" to make money by reviewing a half baked terrible game?

This is not a legit claim. FUN had already responded via Twitter to TB's lambasting of their game, and were quite amicable about the whole thing; embarrassed a bit, understandably, but amicable. Both TB and FUN have stated through discussions on Twitter that this was not an action by the company, but an individual claiming to be an employee.

FUN does not know what they have done.

canadamus_prime:
If I'm not mistaken a lot of this and similar incidents have to do with the fact that many of these companies outsource their copyright protection whatevers to a 3rd party, and even then it's largely handled by automated bots. Of course both of those are incredibly stupid things to do.

Yes and as a youtuber I've dealt with such companies. They are the most impressively vile and threatening groups I've ever run into. They put in a claim and basically played the "well sue you and take everything card." So I called them on it in the counter claim, stated how the law was on my side, stated the statistics such as compensation for such a false claim, if they took it further. Then stated how I'd take it to the EU courts. It's amazing how apologetic they were after I pointed out they were acting illegally.

Fun creators are mad to do this.
It will cost them court fees.
If they lose it's a minimum $5,000 fine to compensate the creator per incident of DMCA abuse. With optional 10% loss of earning compensation to the victim.
On top of that they then also have to pay the victim for their full loss of earnings. 2 videos at 200,000+ views on youtube. That could easily be another $10,000 in loss of revenue.
Add to that slander and deformation of character as seen via twitter.
I'd say this is looking like a $100,000 in costs already.[/quote]
Still the point I was trying to make was that the actuall companies that hold the copyrights are usually not to blame in these cases and the only stupid thing they've done is hire these 3rd party companies; which admittedly is pretty stupid.

Well this is gonna be entertaining. Has been so far.

Really, you don't mess with Totalbiscuit. He and his angry Internet army is kinda scary.

2xDouble:
Both TB and FUN have stated through discussions on Twitter that this was not an action by the company, but an individual claiming to be an employee.

Link? All I see on FUN's twitter is them acting stupid and blaming TB. And his Twitter just says that it's in the hands of Polaris now. I don't think it's likely a legit claim but the behaviour of the FUN Twitter operator has been smug condescending and accusatory all at once which really doesn't help their case.

TheEvilCheese:

Link? All I see on FUN's twitter is them acting stupid and blaming TB. And his Twitter just says that it's in the hands of Polaris now. I don't think it's likely a legit claim but the behaviour of the FUN Twitter operator has been smug condescending and accusatory all at once which really doesn't help their case.

Oh, you should try the Steam forums are they're banning people, deleting threads and posts who are discussing about this matter.

I questioned the devs why they are behaving in this manner and what they are doing will not help them in any way to gain people's trust and they just insta perma banned me.

I very much enjoy it when companies burn to death in the fires they themselves deliberately started. Soon there shall be nothing but ashes left and we can all move on to the next disaster.

Instead of a blacklist where i would put companies i wont do business with, not because i don't like them but because the chance that i will be getting a sub par product is too high to pour money into that;

I might need a whitelist. I buy no videogames at all except from companies on this whitelist on which i would find many creators of moddable sandbox games because i know i will be playing them for a long time.

One might argue that this is a bit of an extreme measure but considering just how many rather disagreeable people we have here i find myself disagreeing.

erttheking:
And funnily enough, for some reason you can only post in the Steam forums if you own the game. Like the dev team is trying to keep all of TB's fans from raging at them. Classy.

This isn't a new form of control. It's been around and Steam treats it as totally legit, along with censoring negative criticisms, etc.

agent9:
TB sends them a form in which they ask the company permission to review the game with express purpose of monetizing said review. if everything is a go he makes the video if not he moves on. they are very much in the wrong on this one as they already made their bed with TB, now they have to sleep in it. it's also censorship in an attempt to deceive customers and control their own ratings which I would say is borderline illegal. it matters not where they're coming from, if EA did this we would demand their heads on a pike.

EA have done that, quite recently too. Want to give Dungeon Keeper Mobile 5 stars? Sure, go ahead. Want to give them 0-4 stars? Send them your feedback but don't rate it.

Of course, most of us have been demanding their heads on pikes for quite some time.

Mangod:
snip

Read this from Angry Joe, the response from that company re the block on Total Biscuits site - dont know how to embed it so if it shows as a link maybe you can use it as an update on your thread.
http://i.imgur.com/47f4jt6.png

Like TB or not, he sure does carry a lot of weight on YouTube, and when one of his videos get taken down, he makes sure that people notice it. Hopefully some good can come of this, and maybe some day YouTube will make it a lot harder for occurrences like this to happen whenever a company gets butt-hurt from some critique.

Sunrider84:
https://twitter.com/Totalbiscuit/status/434775923490295809

It just keeps getting better!

"Our company is a lot smaller than your little channel."
So...they must obviously not know that Polaris is involved, Polaris also being largely owned by Time Warner Cable, and Time Warner Cable being one of the largest services in the United States and what might be bought by Comcast (let's hope not), who are one of the largest ISP companies in the United States...yeah this is gonna be great.

So their options were get a little bad publicity and have a hurdle to overcome with their future games, or get all the bad publicity by developing a reputation of silencing any opinions they don't like, and never develop games again. Well, I guess they made their choice.

I'd like to hear TB comment about this but I can't really see it being its own video. I mean, what could he say abput this that he didn't already say about the Garry's Incident thing? Maybe it could be in a Content Patch or something

Just to correct a few things here.

Fun haven't said they didn't issue the takedown.
They've said they won't admit to the takedown unless TB submits to their investigation.

Also youtube allows companies multiple levels of claiming.
No action - As I saw happen with the creators of South Park after an audio byte used was claimed by an automated system. they released the claim entirely

Content ID matched - content is from another company and the company can ask that a link to their product be placed by google in the video description but no further action.

Content ID claim - A company claims they are the copyright holder and takes a share of or all of the video revenue but the video remains up, viewable and the account is deemed ok and no action is taken.

Content takedown - the content is taken down in one or multiple countries where the copyright is valid but no further action is taken

Copyright violation - This is the big gun used by very few companies, I've never had this happen to me as this is one step away from declaring war on someone. you have the video removed and say the person was violating your rights so much none of what they uploaded was their rightful content. Doing this takedown is akin to walking up to someone, grabbing something they have and saying "This is mine I own it you stole it." That's pretty bad as if it goes to court it means they're claiming full ownership and that there is no derived content present. This means they're essentially claiming the audio track to.
They are accusing TB of doing the equivalent of taking a TV show or movie as is and uploading the entire thing onto youtube. Unless you're really stupid or really after a fight, you don't push for the copyright strike. If you just want it taken down you can do that but to go for the copyright strike to is a vicious attack on the person realistically.

lunavixen:
]The system is automated, there is a decent chance that FUN didn't issues those claims but someone else did. The system is broken as hell and a fix is unlikely to be coming.

Except any decent company will then help you fight it. Believe it or not I've had the Asylum (makers of films such as Snakes on a Train, Mega piranha and Mega shark vs giant Octopus) help me fight a copyright claim. The reason was some-one was claiming content and making money off it in an unauthorised way. All the company need do is verify with youtube they hold the rights then what The Asylum did was file a counter claim on the video from their verified account and they can ask for youtube to release the claim without them ending up filing a claim on the video themselves.

Also update, the war machines of the internet have started rolling. Jim Sterling has tweeted at them.

https://twitter.com/JimSterling/statuses/434791229759696898

So far it seems that's
A lot of indie game critics.
Angry Joe
and Jim Sterling against them.

All it needs now is Adam Sessler and you're pretty much facing the internet as a whole as you've got so many big names after you.

So yeh the Asylum are pretty cool guys all in all.

What you don't do is deny, deny , deny and smokescreen then do nothing.
The correct way is, deny then say "but as it's our content well help fight this, here is evidence its not us." Or "Well go to youtube and in support of you and help show you have used the content entirely correctly and if youtube wants to argue we'll tell them we're allowing you to use that content and it's fine by us." What you don't do is act like a petulant child. If the Asylum can get it right there's really no reason other companies should be this bad.

Lolz I remember when TB Said I'd love to see them try doing a Copyright claim on my video...

Oooo they are so dead...

2xDouble:
This is not a legit claim. FUN had already responded via Twitter to TB's lambasting of their game, and were quite amicable about the whole thing; embarrassed a bit, understandably, but amicable. Both TB and FUN have stated through discussions on Twitter that this was not an action by the company, but an individual claiming to be an employee.

You are really days behind there.

TB posted a letter from Fun where they pretty much said that they don't give a fuck and are 'bigger' than him. Shortly after he posted it they accused him of faking it to which he replied with a video directly from his email account.

Now they sent him pretty much a threat letter and forbid him to make it public. He made it public.

Fun did make the claim.

Another development.

TB tells Fun creators to direct further communication via his lawyer.
Fun creators now want to talk via email with trusted people carbon copied in to confirm the validity of emails.
https://twitter.com/FUNCreators/statuses/434785536096489472

Suddenly Fun Creators are backing down when they realise this isn't play time anymore this is serious time.

Having read the second letter I'am finding it hard to believe people are actually that crazy to write and send something like that. Though as previous posters here have mentioned there doesn't seem to be any evidence that FUN isn't behind all this, other than accusing TB of lying, which if anything just makes them look more guilty here.

krazykidd:
but i do believe only certain people should be allowed to " review" games not every tom, dick and harry with a camera ( i'm not saying that's what total biscuit is).

The law would disagree with you there. If only 'certain people' get to do reviews, who decides what the 'certain people' are? Some kind of licensing body? Who funds it? You can bet your ass that in that kind of scenario the answer to who decides would rapidly become the publishers decide.

What you propose is a system where voicing an opinion on a product becomes illegal without some kind of license to do so, which these guys would no doubt love, but you might not when you get banned from forums or fined for having the temerity to post a review.

As it is the law protects all reviews of products, whether it's Totalbiscuit or some drunk guy. The alternative is every website being like EGM and giving Colonial Marines a 9 out of 10.

Ugh, the worst thing that'll come out of this is TB getting money and continuing his boring shtick.

At least Yathzee is actually funny. I cringe whenever TB starts showing a game and spend 20min in the options screen.

TheBelgianGuy:
At least Yathzee is actually funny. I cringe whenever TB starts showing a game and spend 20min in the options screen.

Mm, yes. Gods forbid a PC-centric games reviewer actually reviews games centred around things PC gamers want.

The_Kodu:
Another development.

TB tells Fun creators to direct further communication via his lawyer.
Fun creators now want to talk via email with trusted people carbon copied in to confirm the validity of emails.
https://twitter.com/FUNCreators/statuses/434785536096489472

Suddenly Fun Creators are backing down when they realise this isn't play time anymore this is serious time.

At some point it has to set in that they have no case and he will legally eviscerate them if he actually takes it to court.

Him refusing to talk further and telling them to speak to his lawyer from here on is the equivalent of him telling them to bend over because they're about to take something up the ass.

DapperStache:
Having read the second letter I'am finding it hard to believe people are actually that crazy to write and send something like that.

Small dev team, gets a game out, has a guy who 'knows legal stuff' think they're god. Also, Fun Creators are based in Jordan, so there might be a cultural gap going on too, although I doubt it.

It's quite funny about the whole we're bigger than you thing, TB works for Polaris (aka The Game Studio), which is a subsidiary of Maker Studios, which control over a thousand Youtube channels, consistently comes in the top three most watched networks on Youtube and has income in the tens of millions of dollars per year. All things considered, in the event of lawyers being deployed my money is on TotalBiscuit.

The public climb down after making a very direct threat is hilarious.

We said we'll sue him if he doesn't shut up.

He says to direct all further communication via his lawyer

Wait... he has A LAWYER?! Like a real one?!

Oh shit!

TheBelgianGuy:
Ugh, the worst thing that'll come out of this is TB getting money and continuing his boring shtick.

At least Yathzee is actually funny. I cringe whenever TB starts showing a game and spend 20min in the options screen.

Why does everything have to be entertainment first? The point of the series is to inform the consumer, it's not like he's showing the option screen because he finds them hilarious.

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