JonTron insults Platstation Now, Tumblr has a shit fit *UPDATE*

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th3dark3rsh33p:

There's a difference between racial slurs, and using the word retarded. Just like calling someone a half wit isn't targeting the mentally handicapped neither is using retarded. Stupid, dumbass, shithead, dunce, retard, halfwit, simple minded, thick, imbecile etc etc, have all in the past been used to make fun of people with mental handicaps, some of them were also classifications for the mentally handicapped. Retarded isn't special. It's just the most recent definition since mentally handicapped was adopted. Calling someone who clearly isn't mentally handicapped a retard is just calling them stupid. Calling someone mentally handicapped a retard in an unprovoked manner for laughs is just mean.

The use of the word retarded or retard doesn't disparage the mentally handicapped at all. It's meaning has changed in large part and it has more to do with context than anything else. The lack of a universal quality in the context of racial slurs is what makes them kind of dickish to use in common speech. There are few circumstances where the word nigger or chink mean anything other than being a derogatory word for africans and asians. Nigger is kind of getting there, but it's got a long way to go before it starts being commonly accepted as another meaning.

It was they who made it offensive, not those taking issue with it. Words have power, and retard has more juice than the banal "stupid".
Than use stupid, don't go out of your way to make use of a word that significant amounts take issue with. That excuse can be used to label anyone whatever slur you like because after all its just like calling them X.

You've avoided the example I presented so I'll go again.
Stan is a word meaning country, nation, place, and so forth. Pakistan would be deduced as a result if you look at the surrounding nations examples to be the homeland of the "Pakis" just as Uzbekistan would be the homeland of the Uzbeks, or Afghanistan the homeland of the Afghans (this all isn't so straightforward as that but as we're using petty little justifications for being purposely rude you will have to roll with it).
Now armed with that knowledge tell me you will now use that term whenever you refer to a Pakistani. After all saying it would just be like saying the word "Pakistani" anyway, words are just words and have no power.

Here is another one for you, why do we use "Poles" instead of "Polacks" (In English speaking countries anyway, they are commonly called that in Iberia).

Rozalia1:

th3dark3rsh33p:

There's a difference between racial slurs, and using the word retarded. Just like calling someone a half wit isn't targeting the mentally handicapped neither is using retarded. Stupid, dumbass, shithead, dunce, retard, halfwit, simple minded, thick, imbecile etc etc, have all in the past been used to make fun of people with mental handicaps, some of them were also classifications for the mentally handicapped. Retarded isn't special. It's just the most recent definition since mentally handicapped was adopted. Calling someone who clearly isn't mentally handicapped a retard is just calling them stupid. Calling someone mentally handicapped a retard in an unprovoked manner for laughs is just mean.

The use of the word retarded or retard doesn't disparage the mentally handicapped at all. It's meaning has changed in large part and it has more to do with context than anything else. The lack of a universal quality in the context of racial slurs is what makes them kind of dickish to use in common speech. There are few circumstances where the word nigger or chink mean anything other than being a derogatory word for africans and asians. Nigger is kind of getting there, but it's got a long way to go before it starts being commonly accepted as another meaning.

It was they who made it offensive, not those taking issue with it. Words have power, and retard has more juice than the banal "stupid".
Than use stupid, don't go out of your way to make use of a word that significant amounts take issue with. That excuse can be used to label anyone whatever slur you like because after all its just like calling them X.

You've avoided the example I presented so I'll go again.
Stan is a word meaning country, nation, place, and so forth. Pakistan would be deduced as a result if you look at the surrounding nations examples to be the homeland of the "Pakis" just as Uzbekistan would be the homeland of the Uzbeks, or Afghanistan the homeland of the Afghans (this all isn't so straightforward as that but as we're using petty little justifications for being purposely rude you will have to roll with it).
Now armed with that knowledge tell me you will now use that term whenever you refer to a Pakistani. After all saying it would just be like saying the word "Pakistani" anyway, words are just words and have no power.

Here is another one for you, why do we use "Poles" instead of "Polacks" (In English speaking countries anyway, they are commonly called that in Iberia).

The reason why I wouldn't use those is because those words only have a few contexts all of which are specifically derogatory. I didn't avoid your point I told you that context matters, and you merely gave me an example as why the exact logic of the word itself doesn't divorce it from cultural context. You know... exactly what I was saying about how retard however technical the words definition might be in referencing the mentally disabled, it's cultural context has largely divorced it. Just because you don't want it to be another way of just saying stupid, doesn't mean it's not just another way of calling someone stupid or foolish, and it's very unlikely your going to change that.

Vault101:
its like calling somone a fag as a general insult

Ironically, if you look at the history of the word, you'd realize that fag = homosexual is relatively new, and that it's been used as an insult meaning a wide variety of things over time -- fag is as general an insult as one will get. The original meaning was something like "stick picker", it later got used to mean things like "burden" or "a burdensome woman", and only got associated with homosexuals when people started burning them (same reason it got used as a slang term for a cigarette in England, the obvious association with a stick to be burned).

More amusingly, chan culture tries to kill fag = homosexual, by simply declaring literally everyone some kind of "fag" within their bubble -- newbies are "newfags", long term users are "oldfags", Christians are "christfags", people who use tripcodes are "tripfags", etc, etc, etc. As far as the chans are concerned, *everyone* is a fag.

Vault101:
its like somone saying "I don't care what color somone is..anyone can be a n****" (which yes has been said) <- it doesn't matter the person isn't using it as a race specific insult, their using a word that refers to black people as an insult

A historical slur against the Irish was to call them "white niggers" (because the Irish who immigrated around the Great Famine were in essentially the same socioeconomic rung as freed slaves, the phrase "smoked Irish" to describe freed slaves was also used -- in both cases primarily in the north). Is it offensive for a person of Irish descent to call another person of Irish descent a "white nigger"? If so, is it offensive to Irish people or to black people?

What is going on here!? Why are people using unrelated things to argue against people??

How in these 11 pages has it come to people spouting comparisons and metaphors to try and get a point across? What ever happened to using simple, meaningful, direct, EXPLICIT methods of discussion and not pseudo-relevant arguments?

I generally wouldn't come to a topic to say something that has nothing to do with the subject but how could this happen?

I side with Jon, and don't think he was trying to be a dick. He was just trying to call a crappy service exactly what it was.

Welcome to people that were still children in the 90's where to change things up ((not gonna list exact things cause hey mods are on a modding spree)) but people would use words that could be disabilities or sexual preferences in a way of calling something "dumb." I.E. "that's _____"

People are looking for a reason to get upset so ya they can find one. I at least can see it as he wasn't trying to insult Actual people there.

Guy acted like a chump and got called on it. That's about the long and short of it.

Never had a problem with the word "retarded". And as a PSN user I have zero problems with anybody discrediting it.

First off, Jon is 100% correct. Playstation Now is retarded and awful, and that's coming from someone who loves everything about Playstation. Secondly, the reaction to Jon's statement is ridiculous and overwrought. Thirdly, the fact that we are spending this much time looking at this fucking idiotic topic is ridiculous.
And finally, every single one of the people who has insulted Jon have been being just as, if not more offensive than anything Jon has ever said. Ever. I created an account just to say this. I'm lookin' for an argument, let's go.

Oh no, someone on the internet said a bad word!

People only care because he's a famous Youtuber. If it was any random user people wouldn't give a shit.

Have no problem with this. But this is great for advertising stuff.

This thread in a nutshell:

image

Rozalia1:

Here is another one for you, why do we use "Poles" instead of "Polacks" (In English speaking countries anyway, they are commonly called that in Iberia).

That's a weird one since in Polish "Polak" (singular) and "Polacy" (plurar) is the proper way to refer to Polish people. The use of "Polack" as a derogatory term is purely an American invention.

I think that Jon should probably had pulled back on his initial comment about miss using the word "retarded", but in no way he should have apologized to the kids of tumblr who feel like the world is gonna change over night if they annoy people with their incredibly childish responses to things that offend them.

Anything that comes out of that site has lost all credibility for me because of their constant crying over gender roles and sexuality. This is basically the same type of crying, some dude said a word he shouldn't have said, burn the witch!

This thread has reached 11 pages, I'm almost sure this is going on as long as the argument on Twitter and to an extent the very small rage on Tumblr because all of tumblr isn't some fucked hive mind, I know because I've been on there for a year and a half now and my dash hasn't been full of the supposed SJW shit.

A famous youtuber acted a bit curtly towards a fan. The End....OF THE WORLD THAT IS!

I don't have time to read eleven pages of this shit, so apologies if I'm repeating something someone already said, but here goes:
Retard is a medical term. It means you have been developmentally held back in some way and is in no way inappropriate. People don't like hearing the word retard because no one wants to be a retard. That's why people use it as an insult. Not to take a dig at retarded people, but because YOU don't want to be a retard. You know who's likely not really offended by it? Retards. Chances are they're too retarded to notice or care what word someone uses. Stop being offended for other people.

Alright, let's drop the particular mic here, without dancing around the topic with etymology/scenarios/etc.

1) Jon talks about the PSN, and it's rather. . .suspect way of functioning. To enhance his point, he uses one of those words that's de facto verboten, but not de jure verboten. For this, he uses 'r-tarded', because it's evocative, descriptive, and it seems like he's not pulling any punches.

1b) The problem of using a de facto verboten word is that you run the risk of bumping into someone whose experience with the word has been less than kind, and will then ask for a bit of clemency from that word. As it turns out, Jon had the luck of running into one such person.

1c) From there, he could have chosen to make a 'mea culpa'. While some of his die hard fans likely wouldn't have seen the reason for it, it would have been shown as an effort to answer any potential detractors. On the other hand, he could have said 'no, I believe in absolute expression/what have you', and given a detailed explanation behind it. He wouldn't have won himself any friends on the 'don't say that word' front, but he would have at least had some logic behind it. And again, it would likely please the 'he can do no wrong' front.

2) Instead of taking either of these two routes, Jon decided to go for the 'comedic' route, choosing to call that person 'r-tarded'. From there, he looks less like a reasonable person, and more like a child who just learned the power of a naughty word. Naturally, people, some more zealot-minded than others, look to display an alternative view.

3) Jon then proceeds to make matters worse by not offering an explanation or an apology for his conduct, and instead resorts to usual tropes. Instead of striking the issue at its core, he tries to deflect fault by resorting to Gaza (as if people cannot focus their attention on multiple things at once), whinge about Tumblr (as if it's some hivemind, the fallacy of which has already been proven in this thread), and generally play the 'poor me' card.

To those outside the fan camp/those who believe that using a word that, regardless of how it might be intended, has now become synonymous with stupidity, it's rightly assumed that Jon is trying to weasel his way out of confronting the issue he set off. Whereas, for those inside those camp, it looks like mean ol' tumblr is picking on Jon because he said what was on his mind.

4) Unfortunately, there is likely never to be anything more than this issue being dropped over attrition. If the internet has told us anything, it's exceptionally easy to hold onto a view, no matter how ill-founded, because there are little to no consequences in defending it. Jon will, sadly enough, learn nothing from this, and the beat will go on anew. Because people need to find ways to 'spice up' their words, and sadly enough, that comes at the hands of using controversial ones.

In a dream world, Jon would make his mea culpa, and things will die down. Instead, we get to see ye olde tropes such as the 'tumblr hugbox' 'I'm x and I'm okay with this therefore I am a representation of my entire circle', etc. etc. etc.

Internet, never change.

And by that, I mean change as fast as humanly possible.

TonesG:

To those outside the fan camp/those who believe that using a word that, regardless of how it might be intended, has now become synonymous with stupidity, it's rightly assumed that Jon is trying to weasel his way out of confronting the issue he set off. Whereas, for those inside those camp, it looks like mean ol' tumblr is picking on Jon because he said what was on his mind.

4) Unfortunately, there is likely never to be anything more than this issue being dropped over attrition. If the internet has told us anything, it's exceptionally easy to hold onto a view, no matter how ill-founded, because there are little to no consequences in defending it. Jon will, sadly enough, learn nothing from this, and the beat will go on anew. Because people need to find ways to 'spice up' their words, and sadly enough, that comes at the hands of using controversial ones.

In a dream world, Jon would make his mea culpa, and things will die down. Instead, we get to see ye olde tropes such as the 'tumblr hugbox' 'I'm x and I'm okay with this therefore I am a representation of my entire circle', etc. etc. etc.

Internet, never change.

And by that, I mean change as fast as humanly possible.

Unfortunately, Jon DID apologize for the Gaza comment, while basically specifically not apologizing for the retard one, but no one noticed the difference between the two, and think that he apologized for it all.

(The reason I say "unfortunately" is because tumblr will continue to overreact because they *like* overreacting, and because people will mistake that apology for the other, and think that Jon caved at all over in the issue, like the dickwolves fiasco.

I don't really know why I'm responding to this comment in particular, but it seems like the best one on this page for it.

Tumbler up in arms over a comment! In other news, birds fly and fish swim!

chadachada123:

Unfortunately, Jon DID apologize for the Gaza comment, while basically specifically not apologizing for the retard one, but no one noticed the difference between the two, and think that he apologized for it all.

(The reason I say "unfortunately" is because tumblr will continue to overreact because they *like* overreacting, and because people will mistake that apology for the other, and think that Jon caved at all over in the issue, like the dickwolves fiasco.

I don't really know why I'm responding to this comment in particular, but it seems like the best one on this page for it.

Then I rescind that part about him being unapologetic in regards to Gaza. All the same, it appears as though he still doesn't understand where he went wrong, and it's likely that he never will. But, like I said, that's the internet. It's incredibly easy to defend a position because the worst you get is computer people shouting at you.

So, the more radical elements of tumblr will continue to do what it's infamous for, and I will try not to beat my head through a wall,

IronFrog:
I don't have time to read eleven pages of this shit, so apologies if I'm repeating something someone already said, but here goes:
Retard is a medical term. It means you have been developmentally held back in some way and is in no way inappropriate. People don't like hearing the word retard because no one wants to be a retard. That's why people use it as an insult. Not to take a dig at retarded people, but because YOU don't want to be a retard. You know who's likely not really offended by it? Retards. Chances are they're too retarded to notice or care what word someone uses. Stop being offended for other people.

You're forgetting about the families of the people you're putting down when you use the term as an insult.

I wouldn't be surprised if the person who initially corrected him on twitter has a loved one who is mentally handicapped.

Part of the problem with slurs is that it reduces a person to a single trait. I'm not a fan of the term "Handy-Capable" as I find it patronizing, but I do think it's wrong to force the handicapped to be defined by their handicap any more than necessary.

IronFrog:
I don't have time to read eleven pages of this shit, so apologies if I'm repeating something someone already said, but here goes:
Retard is a medical term. It means you have been developmentally held back in some way and is in no way inappropriate. People don't like hearing the word retard because no one wants to be a retard. That's why people use it as an insult. Not to take a dig at retarded people, but because YOU don't want to be a retard. You know who's likely not really offended by it? Retards. Chances are they're too retarded to notice or care what word someone uses. Stop being offended for other people.

Speaking as one of those 'retards' you so eloquently refer to, I'd like to dispute that notion. While I don't speak for all my brethren I imagine that a decent contingent, like me, are used as a synonym for 'defective'. To hear it in every avenue of life, to know that I am as 'less than' as service x, to know that anything bad is explained away as 'that's retarded'. Well, I gotta say, knowing that there are substantial contingents of people that see me as a 'less than', and have no qualms about using a certain word to describe that 'less than'-ness is quite insulting.

As an aside, using that word because 'YOU don't want to be a retard', is a pretty massive insult at the group in question. Given that we apparently aren't the 'kind of people' that one would want to be, or associate with by nature of that very definition.

TonesG:

IronFrog:
I don't have time to read eleven pages of this shit, so apologies if I'm repeating something someone already said, but here goes:
Retard is a medical term. It means you have been developmentally held back in some way and is in no way inappropriate. People don't like hearing the word retard because no one wants to be a retard. That's why people use it as an insult. Not to take a dig at retarded people, but because YOU don't want to be a retard. You know who's likely not really offended by it? Retards. Chances are they're too retarded to notice or care what word someone uses. Stop being offended for other people.

Speaking as one of those 'retards' you so eloquently refer to, I'd like to dispute that notion. While I don't speak for all my brethren I imagine that a decent contingent, like me, are used as a synonym for 'defective'. To hear it in every avenue of life, to know that I am as 'less than' as service x, to know that anything bad is explained away as 'that's retarded'. Well, I gotta say, knowing that there are substantial contingents of people that see me as a 'less than', and have no qualms about using a certain word to describe that 'less than'-ness is quite insulting.

As an aside, using that word because 'YOU don't want to be a retard', is a pretty massive insult at the group in question. Given that we apparently aren't the 'kind of people' that one would want to be, or associate with by nature of that very definition.

Sorry, but your writing level is bounds above someone who could be diagnosed with retardation. I know this is the internet and its fun to make false claims but here it actually destroys your point. Even someone with mild retaration is not going to be using terms you use. Use of the term elequently as a dig? mea culpa? brethren? Your first post reading like a contract? Not only do I not buy into the statement that you are mentally retarded as you show zero symptoms, I am seriously doubting you know much about the condition you claim to have. It's like you are claiming to be retarded and then writing a college dissertation on why its not ok to say retarded as someone with the disability. It doesn't work that way.

The word retarded exists and has been used and supported as a medical term. People will continue to use the word because it exists and sometimes they will feel it is the most accurate word to use. Plus, let's consider how many people must push the red button that is labeled "Do Not Push" then get haunted by Justin Beiber. Now you think its a fantastic idea to tell people to NEVER use the word retarded and you think that's actually gonna work? I am thinking of a word to describe that idea, you get 1 guess. It would be smarter to give people a proper outlet for the word. (Essentially put specific meaning into the word) Either save retarded for people who are retarded or allow people to call things that don't make sense to them retarded.

If you explain it like this to a mentally retarded person, all will make sense to them:

The word retarded for 'normal' people means we haven't figured it out. Retarded means 'it doesn't make sense' to us. We don't know how to solve or cure mental retardation. Some 'normal' people get mad at retarded people because they make us normal people feel stupid for not being able to understand it. Someone who is retarded understands what it is like to get mad because you feel too stupid to do something you want to do. 'Normal' people also feel that way sometimes. So when someone says "that's retarded" they mean "that doesn't make sense to me (and probably makes me angry). If they call someone retarded it means "that person doesn't make sense to me (and probably makes me angry).

Cancer is 'retarded'. Death is 'retarded'. Murderers are 'retarded'. Yes, retards are 'retarded'. We don't know how to fix these things thus they all are 'retarded'.

Now, a retarded person can follow that logic. Yet we have a thread of 'normal' people unable to do so. That's pretty retarded if you ask me.

Tumblrina special-snowflake, SJW scumbags will be angry with you if you so much as breathe in their vicinity. Attempting to please them is pointless, so you might as well just say whatever to them.

Ratty:

I wouldn't be surprised if the person who initially corrected him on twitter has a loved one who is mentally handicapped.

And there's many people on twitter who have mentally handicapped loved ones, and said they don't give a shit about his use of the word.

Ratty:

IronFrog:
I don't have time to read eleven pages of this shit, so apologies if I'm repeating something someone already said, but here goes:
Retard is a medical term. It means you have been developmentally held back in some way and is in no way inappropriate. People don't like hearing the word retard because no one wants to be a retard. That's why people use it as an insult. Not to take a dig at retarded people, but because YOU don't want to be a retard. You know who's likely not really offended by it? Retards. Chances are they're too retarded to notice or care what word someone uses. Stop being offended for other people.

You're forgetting about the families of the people you're putting down when you use the term as an insult.

I wouldn't be surprised if the person who initially corrected him on twitter has a loved one who is mentally handicapped.

Part of the problem with slurs is that it reduces a person to a single trait. I'm not a fan of the term "Handy-Capable" as I find it patronizing, but I do think it's wrong to force the handicapped to be defined by their handicap any more than necessary.

No one is putting down anyone by using the word retarded. It's contextual meaning has advanced past purely describing those with mental disabilities. Sorry the language has advanced to where people are looking to be offended when they take offense when the word retarded is used as a description of stupid or foolish behavior, and not a direct put down of a mentally handicapped person.

If you walk into a school, and you single out the handicapped kid by calling him a retard or referring to him as such. Yeah that's cruel and not very acceptable behavior.

If you describe a function of a system or a group of regular people as retarded it's just another insult that means foolish or stupid. We have a ton of those and a lot of them use to be words that described the mentally handicapped. Definitions change over time as the culture molds them to suit a new or more general purpose.

Elijin:
Given how polite the first reply asking him not to use the word that way was....and his reply to it. I see this less as a social justice issue and more and him being a total dick.

When Tumblr users (See: Crybabies) Are being polite, more often than not, it isn't politeness speaking. It's passive-aggressiveness. Still, this guy seems pretty legit. Ok, so yeah, JonTron was dense enough to let this get out of hand. But it was an offhand comment and if people hadn't just gone BAWWWWW HE SAID A BAD WORD then it wouldn't have gotten out of hand and everyone's to blame here.

Buckshaft:

Elijin:
Given how polite the first reply asking him not to use the word that way was....and his reply to it. I see this less as a social justice issue and more and him being a total dick.

When Tumblr users (See: Crybabies) Are being polite, more often than not, it isn't politeness speaking. It's passive-aggressiveness. Still, this guy seems pretty legit. Ok, so yeah, JonTron was dense enough to let this get out of hand. But it was an offhand comment and if people hadn't just gone BAWWWWW HE SAID A BAD WORD then it wouldn't have gotten out of hand and everyone's to blame here.

I don't buy that the first post was polite... It contained the words "please" and "thanks", granted. But... I read it as entirely smug. The inclusion of "thanks" before you know how your request has been received makes it feel like they think compliance is a given. I would probably have told said poster to go fuck himself. "I know you didn't mean it that way, but a lot of people have reservations about that word... For whatever that's worth" is infinitely better in that it doesn't put himself in a tower and JonTron in the dirt.

Sexual Harassment Panda:

I don't buy that the first post was polite... It contained the words "please" and "thanks", granted. But... I read it as entirely smug. The inclusion of "thanks" before you know how your request has been received makes it feel like they think compliance is a given. I would probably have told said poster to go fuck himself. "I know you didn't mean it that way, but a lot of people have reservations about that word... For whatever that's worth" is infinitely better in that it doesn't put himself in a tower and JonTron in the dirt.

Actually, yes. I agree. But I'm trying to give the self-satisfied SJWs a chance. I should know by now, this is pointless.

"Hur hur, you should apologise for something I took a disproportionate amount of offence to, kthxbai"

I use it as a term to describe something that's stupid, sure.

But his comeback calling the person retarded is just silly.

Ratty:

Reminds me of #BanBossy

OT: I kinda agree with Eve Charm. I'm a kid of the 90s and we re-purposed words like "retard" into generic insults and words like "sick" were re-purposed as positive adjectives.
I think this is much more positive than trying to put the word back on it's pedestal 20 years later.

Put simply, context matters. Language doesn't exist in a vacuum, the meanings of words change and distort, or branch off into multiple meanings (i.e. "that's gay"). Jon used the word appropriately and his meaning was crystal clear, that is he was using it to describe something stupid. To take offence at this is to take his statement out of context.

Going out and dowsing for something to be offended by is counter-productive.

Sexual Harassment Panda:

Buckshaft:

Elijin:
Given how polite the first reply asking him not to use the word that way was....and his reply to it. I see this less as a social justice issue and more and him being a total dick.

When Tumblr users (See: Crybabies) Are being polite, more often than not, it isn't politeness speaking. It's passive-aggressiveness. Still, this guy seems pretty legit. Ok, so yeah, JonTron was dense enough to let this get out of hand. But it was an offhand comment and if people hadn't just gone BAWWWWW HE SAID A BAD WORD then it wouldn't have gotten out of hand and everyone's to blame here.

I don't buy that the first post was polite... It contained the words "please" and "thanks", granted. But... I read it as entirely smug. The inclusion of "thanks" before you know how your request has been received makes it feel like they think compliance is a given. I would probably have told said poster to go fuck himself. "I know you didn't mean it that way, but a lot of people have reservations about that word... For whatever that's worth" is infinitely better in that it doesn't put himself in a tower and JonTron in the dirt.

I read that as "Thank you for your time", and it is kinda unreasonable to assume the worst and then decide that to treat them like dirt is the ideal response to your ignorance.

All this politically correct BS over the word retarded is retarded.

The WORD is not offensive. Replace is with "fluffy" and people will just b_tch that "fluffy" is an offensive word. The MEANING is what these retards are crying over:

(Merriam-Webster) slow or limited in intellectual or emotional development or academic progress

That ^ is a fact of life. Get over it. Your emotional insecurity does not entitle you to a hand job. Banning words is absurd and intellectually bankrupt. And a sign of being retarded.

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