JonTron insults Platstation Now, Tumblr has a shit fit *UPDATE*

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...fucking really? Who the hell cares, besides, he's right anyway.

Being offended through the eyes of a comedian:

image

Being offended from a politically correct standpoint:

image

Some people just refuse to think.

Jon to the tron. Sorry tumblr can go fuck itself. I agree there really are just better things to burn your energy on.

Savagezion:
snip.

Yeah no.

Are we really at a point where intentionally offending people is something that we're going to heroize? I mean it's one thing if you just don't care, but to think that by invoking slurs against marginalized groups you're doing a favor to them?

The only "thinking" a homosexual is going to have in response to a homophobic slur is how messed up things still are for us. And so on.

Okay allow me to start with this...
*adjusts megaphone*
STOP REFERRING TO "TUMBLR" AS IF IT'S ONE CONSISTENT ENTITY
In reality it is anything but.

Tumblr's been my go-to social network thing for well over three years and I've seen LOADS of what most would consider anti-tumblr activity. I've seen so-called "social justice warriors" calling out other so-called "social justice warriors," I've seen flimsy arguments shot down by the majority of the community, I've seen massive amounts of discourse and debate between parties, most of which you wouldn't normally associate with Tumblr.
There is SO MUCH infighting within Tumblr, you wouldn't even believe it. There is no grand "will of the many" at work here, and Tumblr is very much a sum of different parts, NOT a cohesive whole.

ANYWAY!
Yeah Jon should really not have used the R-word, that's not cool.
He should DEFINITELY not have directed it at someone calling him out, that's REALLY not cool.
The dude was acting childish and ignorant and he pretty much deserved to be called out on it.
He should apologize for both things properly, if nothing else then to reclaim some positive PR.
That's my take.

Jon said something offensive and people called him out on it. He acted like a dick about it and gave a really rude response. You were expecting to not explode in his face?

Also, Jon gave probably one of the worst "apologies" I have seen in my entire life. According to the logic in that apology, we are not allowed to care about two problems at once.

P.S. Do not give into the reedit chary picking bullshit. Tumblr isn't exploding with hate against Jon. Hell, I have even seen people defend Jon on tumblr.

ouch biscuit, come on, dont turn this into a PC master race issue, you are better than that

Seems you're trying to stir controversy again Twink. The issue doesn't seem to be the playstation insult in itself, but the usage of the word retard (something I've taken issue with before on here with people using it and got them rightly warned). Is he in the wrong for referring to it as retarded (using it as an insult) yes, no question. The word itself is not banned from usage, but to throw it as an insult is wrong.

As for totalbiscuit, usual poppycock I'd expect from him. Next console users will be Negros, children (oh wait too late), idiots (oh wait too late), and so on. What man lobbs insults like that at console users? A painfully insecure one I'd say who may I add would get all flustered if people started mocking his cancer too. Though this is the man who told someone "to get cancer and die" so him acting in such a low manner is to be expected.

so long as its not aimed at people who have mental disabilities i don't see how anyone can get offended, unless their professional victims

let the people who really suffer complain, otherwise why don't we just ban the entire English dictionary encase someone gets victimised

Soooo... dude used a slur, people said 'hey that's not cool', he got all snippy at them aaaand... tumblr is to blame?

Seriously though folks, yes, it is really important sometimes to be aware of what your vocabulary comes from and if it is offensive. Please google "microaggressions" for a thorough introduction to the concept of what those sort of minor offenses can do; in short, it becomes a little bit death-by-a-thousand-paper-cuts. Yes, one should avoid that word because it's an obvious slur. The people who are neuroatypical (e.g., their brains differ from the norm), mentally disabled, so on and so forth etc. agree on this pretty unilaterally if you go listen to them. And when you're trying to figure out if a word is actually, well, offensive, it's a really good thing to sit down and listen to the people who are in the group possibly being hurt by it. Of course to a lot of people it's no big deal, because they aren't on the receiving end of all of this extra baggage, you know? Find the people it actually affects, and then listen to them.

I realize this probably will get me branded as a rabid SJW out to end society as we know it by being a weenie, but it's kind of just common sense y'all. Language is a super easy thing to tweak here and there so that you don't hurt people by perpetuating outdated stereotypes. And honestly, most of the time said slurs are only there out of laziness anyway - you can make your point without them and be better for it in the end. Listen when people say that something's hurting them, and have a little courtesy.

Tumblr isn't quite the irrational hivemind that a lot of people would like it to be. I keep seeing people tripping over themselves in their eagerness to blame tumblr, and... it's actually really quite telling about them. (And doesn't really tell good things, either.) There's a diversity of opinions there much as there is a diversity of opinions here. If people are that desperate for a hate pinata, idk, at least pick a single person instead of trying to make a whole website population fit the stereotype you want them to be in.

So yeah, this Jon dude said an obnoxious thing and is now surprised that people found it obnoxious and don't want to stick around for such obnoxiousness. Seems pretty simple to me.

Also, just a pet peeve about that initial fauxpology... caring about things isn't a zero-sum game. One can be invested in many issues. It doesn't take anything away from that to look at someone on twitter and politely go "dude, that wasn't cool, please don't toss that word". People aren't cheaply-made robots, we can actually have more than one thing in our memories at a time and can hold a variety of opinions. That statement is sort of like someone saying that for every bit you like Mass Effect, your affection for Dragon Age is rendered moot, when the reality of it is that people can actually enjoy both video games.

Reasons to not use the word "retarded":
1. Its a pejorative that helps perpetuate the stereotype of people with mental disabilities as being inferior.
2. Some people find it extremely hurtful.
3. There are plenty of other words one can use that don't cause pain for no reason.

Reasons to use the word "retarded":
1. It's funny(?)

If you want to incorporate slurs into your speech, that's completely your right. But it doesn't make you any less of a dick.

Personally, I'm all for efforts to reduce the amount of dickishness in the world. What's so terrible about that?

Harpalyce:
Snip

My main issue with all this is that there's no real argument being made against it the statement that couldn't be made against pretty much any insult someone could throw out.

Being offended is not in and of itself an argument, never has been, never will be, and the only real argument anyone seems to have is just that and "it might offend someone else who isn't me" for the most part.

For god sake, just 20 years ago you could say retard, fag, wop, kike and any other number of slurs both racial or not in a movie and still get away with a G rating. Do that today and it's a guaranteed PG-13 rating despite the fact that society has become much more liberal in public vernacular when it comes to slurs being used in public.

As for microagressions, as someone who has gone threw actually physical and mental abuse, I can't tell you how much it pisses me off that this term is even a thing, and that people take it seriously. It's something that we all have gone threw, and will go threw and will always be universal because it is humanly impossible for anyone to not get threw life without encountering countless things which fall under that banner of that title. We all deal with it, and we do it with something anyone over the age of 12 has in some degree or another: having a backbone. (if it looks like this in particular is making me angry, it's because this is a particular brand of bullshit which hits close to home for me)

this whole thing is like the blackest nightmare from back when the internet was a field of dreams.

we could educate and enlighten ourselves and move forward together into a bright new future...

or hurl shit at each other in form of brief utterances and visual aids[1]...

[1] this is NOT a new nickname for tumblr

Ugh.

The people complaining about him using the word "retarded". Get off your high horse. "Retarded is out", Retarded was never "in", beforehand! It's just like the word imbecile, it means a lot less than it used to. When I say somebody's acting like a retard or that somebody's logic is retarded, I'm not saying "You're acting like a kid with a mental disability", I'm saying "You're behaving like a stupid human being".

Kind of like Jontron's rebuttal. If somebody asks politely, justify yourself politely, don't call them an idiot.

He's right in one way, though. People complaining about calling an overpriced service retarded when there could be a real battle to go fight. Friggin' tumblr "activists".

EHKOS:
Seriously? It's Jon. He's an idiot. Although he does have a point at how trivial jumping at someone like this is. But really, it's Jon. I've never agreed with a single opinion of his.

Because clearly everyone who you don't share an opinion with deserves to be labeled an idiot.

Sorry Zontar, I hate to rile you up, but... microaggressions are still a thing, even if you don't like them. And language definitely has huge effects on how we think and in turn how we act. The most recent example I can think of is a study that showed feminine-named hurricanes did much more damage than masculine-named ones... because apparently on some subconscious level, people just don't take those hurricanes as seriously as others.

Microaggressions are pretty well accepted in the field of psychology at the moment, and they definitely make sense to me. Even if you have thick skin, having to actually put your shield up so to speak is going to get tiring when it happens constantly every day. As somebody who experiences them... yes, it absolutely gets you down and it absolutely gets grating.

I'm not really keen on the "but in the good ol' days..." argument, either. If you were, idk, gay or a woman or so on, things really weren't all so great hahaha. The fact that we've stopped constantly using some of this harmful language is a step forward, not back. If you're very attached to being able to use slurs, though, that's your choice! Just don't, as this Jon person apparently is, be shocked when a large chunk of people think you are a bit disgusting for using such terms and decide to leave you to your own devices instead of supporting you (monetarily or otherwise). Things have consequences. Sometimes that consequence is going to be people don't like you when you use slurs. idk why this is shocking or controversial lmao

Harpalyce:
Soooo... dude used a slur, people said 'hey that's not cool', he got all snippy at them aaaand... tumblr is to blame?

Seriously though folks, yes, it is really important sometimes to be aware of what your vocabulary comes from and if it is offensive. Please google "microaggressions" for a thorough introduction to the concept of what those sort of minor offenses can do; in short, it becomes a little bit death-by-a-thousand-paper-cuts. Yes, one should avoid that word because it's an obvious slur. The people who are neuroatypical (e.g., their brains differ from the norm), mentally disabled, so on and so forth etc. agree on this pretty unilaterally if you go listen to them. And when you're trying to figure out if a word is actually, well, offensive, it's a really good thing to sit down and listen to the people who are in the group possibly being hurt by it. Of course to a lot of people it's no big deal, because they aren't on the receiving end of all of this extra baggage, you know? Find the people it actually affects, and then listen to them.

I realize this probably will get me branded as a rabid SJW out to end society as we know it by being a weenie, but it's kind of just common sense y'all. Language is a super easy thing to tweak here and there so that you don't hurt people by perpetuating outdated stereotypes. And honestly, most of the time said slurs are only there out of laziness anyway - you can make your point without them and be better for it in the end. Listen when people say that something's hurting them, and have a little courtesy.

Tumblr isn't quite the irrational hivemind that a lot of people would like it to be. I keep seeing people tripping over themselves in their eagerness to blame tumblr, and... it's actually really quite telling about them. (And doesn't really tell good things, either.) There's a diversity of opinions there much as there is a diversity of opinions here. If people are that desperate for a hate pinata, idk, at least pick a single person instead of trying to make a whole website population fit the stereotype you want them to be in.

So yeah, this Jon dude said an obnoxious thing and is now surprised that people found it obnoxious and don't want to stick around for such obnoxiousness. Seems pretty simple to me.

Also, just a pet peeve about that initial fauxpology... caring about things isn't a zero-sum game. One can be invested in many issues. It doesn't take anything away from that to look at someone on twitter and politely go "dude, that wasn't cool, please don't toss that word". People aren't cheaply-made robots, we can actually have more than one thing in our memories at a time and can hold a variety of opinions. That statement is sort of like someone saying that for every bit you like Mass Effect, your affection for Dragon Age is rendered moot, when the reality of it is that people can actually enjoy both video games.

I find it more obnoxious and disgusting when people try to police my speech. Go figure.

I didn't even think his 2nd response was that rude, it was more of a joke to me.
No one is to blame. One side is overreacting at something that happens everyday because they feel that things should change, if someone doesn't want to change then that's their choice.

Seriously though folks, yes, it is really important sometimes to be aware of what your vocabulary comes from and if it is offensive. Please google "microaggressions" for a thorough introduction to the concept of what those sort of minor offenses can do; in short, it becomes a little bit death-by-a-thousand-paper-cuts. Yes, one should avoid that word because it's an obvious slur.

It's a hypothesis. Not everyone is going to side with it.

QuietlyListening:
Reasons to not use the word "retarded":
1. Its a pejorative that helps perpetuate the stereotype of people with mental disabilities as being inferior.
2. Some people find it extremely hurtful.
3. There are plenty of other words one can use that don't cause pain for no reason.

Reasons to use the word "retarded":
1. It's funny(?)

If you want to incorporate slurs into your speech, that's completely your right. But it doesn't make you any less of a dick.

Personally, I'm all for efforts to reduce the amount of dickishness in the world. What's so terrible about that?

you know what else is hurtful?

these:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_disability-related_terms_with_negative_connotations

being hurt over words when they are not meant as a personal insult to you means NOTHING, its you actively looking to get offended

Headsprouter:
Ugh.

The people complaining about him using the word "retarded". Get off your high horse. "Retarded is out", Retarded was never "in", beforehand! It's just like the word imbecile, it means a lot less than it used to. When I say somebody's acting like a retard or that somebody's logic is retarded, I'm not saying "You're acting like a kid with a mental disability", I'm saying "You're behaving like a stupid human being".

Kind of like Jontron's rebuttal. If somebody asks politely, justify yourself politely, don't call them an idiot.

He's right in one way, though. People complaining about calling an overpriced service retarded when there could be a real battle to go fight. Friggin' tumblr "activists".

But the word retarded has been and continues to be used to describe people with mental disabilities. Perhaps that's not your intent, but you can't deny that the connection exists. And given the knowledge, why even use it in the first place and invite confusion? If you think something is stupid, just call it stupid.

NuclearKangaroo:

you know what else is hurtful?

these:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_disability-related_terms_with_negative_connotations

being hurt over words when they are not meant as a personal insult to you means NOTHING, its you actively looking to get offended

Well I try not to call anyone crazy, a freak, or crippled either.

You are right about one thing. I am not personally offended by the word. But there remains a significant portion of people who are. If someone uses the word retarded, or any other slur, it's not my place to get angry on the behalf of others. However, I can inform said person that their words do have the power to hurt and encourage them to be more mindful in how they speak. Because everyone makes mistakes, and not everyone takes the time to consider the feelings of other people. I see nothing wrong with encouraging empathy.

What truly mystifies me is the outrage on the other side. I ask again, what's so bad about people showing a little consideration and not being jerks? What's the point of defending jerkish behaviour and encouraging spite and meanness?

Harpalyce:
Sorry Zontar, I hate to rile you up, but... microaggressions are still a thing, even if you don't like them. And language definitely has huge effects on how we think and in turn how we act. The most recent example I can think of is a study that showed feminine-named hurricanes did much more damage than masculine-named ones... because apparently on some subconscious level, people just don't take those hurricanes as seriously as others.

That study gives a false image due to the fact that all hurricanes before 1953 where given masculine names while all between 1953 and 1979 before we moved to the mixed system in place now. It isn't a case of people not taking them seriously (I have yet to meet someone from hurricane ally who doesn't take a mere tropical store seriously), it's because there was just more property with more value in the region due to the economic growth of the 50s, 60s and early 70s that grew the US economy in unprecedented levels. Nothing subconscious about it, it's pure math. More valuable property in the same space with the same potential for damage per year and area means greater property damage over time.

Microaggressions are pretty well accepted in the field of psychology at the moment, and they definitely make sense to me. Even if you have thick skin, having to actually put your shield up so to speak is going to get tiring when it happens constantly every day. As somebody who experiences them... yes, it absolutely gets you down and it absolutely gets grating.

This is both true and untrue at the same time due to how the field works. While some parts of it advocate its wider acceptance, others reject it and most fields of thought are either uncaring as it doesn't relate to their particular sub sect or just won't bother with it until actual research is done in support of it. (so far, said research is still not at the level of acceptable theory).

As for your own experience, I say again: we all go threw it, each and every one of us. Every single day without fail. Out species wide ability to handle it is a result of our evolution as social animals.

I'm not really keen on the "but in the good ol' days..." argument, either. If you were, idk, gay or a woman or so on, things really weren't all so great hahaha.

That's going pretty dame farther back then my point was if THAT is being made an issue. My point was that over the past 20 years, while mainstream society started caring much less about vulgarity and profanity and offending people, mainstream media has gone in the opposite direction where even the slightest thing that could offend someone is suddenly unacceptable (and is also futile given how most of those complaining have shown to, as a group, be unappeasable).

The fact that we've stopped constantly using some of this harmful language is a step forward, not back..{/quote]
But that's just it, we haven't, we've gone in just the opposite direction as a society (and it has actually been fuelled by the PC crowd, since no one wants a 'Holier then thou' attitude thrown at them by people who tend to be just as willing to do what they preach against themselves). It's the mainstream media which has changed, and it makes the contrast between fiction and reality all the more clear.
[quote]idk why this is shocking or controversial lmao

I don't think you understand where the controversy in all this is. It isn't that JonTron called something that is retarded retarded, it's that there was such a massive backlash against it. That's where the real controversy is all this lies.

Come on, TotalBiscuit. He said "retarded", not "retarding", and you know it.

QuietlyListening:

Well I try not to call anyone crazy, a freak, or crippled either.

You are right about one thing. I am not personally offended by the word. But there remains a significant portion of people who are.

so?

that means nothing, i cant say i feel offended when they feel offended for things i say

QuietlyListening:
If someone uses the word retarded, or any other slur, it's not my place to get angry on the behalf of others. However, I can inform said person that their words do have the power to hurt and encourage them to be more mindful in how they speak. Because everyone makes mistakes, and not everyone takes the time to consider the feelings of other people. I see nothing wrong with encouraging empathy.

so its not like people gets offended, you THINK SOME PEOPLE, SOMEWHERE, MIGHT GET OFFENDED

and thats enough reason to tell someone else what to say

in a world where theres people offended by the world "bossy"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6dynbzMlCcw

offended means nothing

QuietlyListening:
What truly mystifies me is the outrage on the other side. I ask again, what's so bad about people showing a little consideration and not being jerks? What's the point of defending jerkish behaviour and encouraging spite and meanness?

freedom of speech, the right to say whatever i want, specially when one doesnt not have any ill intention, for instance, when i say the ouya is a stupid console, im not insulting every person with mental disabilities, that is stupid

I think it's a pretty safe policy that sometimes it's wiser to just ignore peoples tweets, and block liberally. Sounds like Jon could of just ignored this dude and nothing would of came of it.

As far as the word goes... Well fuck me. Can't please everyone. Just don't call people retarded.

somebody said something that pissed off a group of people on tumblr, you don't say!

captcha: never gonna give you up

The guy is entirely correct in my opinion- PlayStation Now is retarded.

Beyond that, I do not care at all.

QuietlyListening:

But the word retarded has been and continues to be used to describe people with mental disabilities. Perhaps that's not your intent, but you can't deny that the connection exists. And given the knowledge, why even use it in the first place and invite confusion? If you think something is stupid, just call it stupid.

If I were to call a game a "pile of shit" does that invite confusion that I literally think it's made of waste? No. Because words have a plethora of meanings that are dependent on context for you to figure out what the speaker is actually saying.

You certainly do have that freedom. And you have the freedom to be mean, hateful, and insulting. But just because you have the right to be awful doesn't mean you should.

And it's not like I'm digging very far to find the offense. Lots of people have actively stated that they're offended by it. And even if you don't know anyone personally who you're denigrating, should that really matter?

Say we were at a party, and you noticed that my dick was hanging out of my trousers. You might come over to me and say, "Hey, you should put that away. It's not appropriate." Now, I could respond by dick-slapping you in the face and yelling "THIS IS MY RIGHT." I could certainly do that. However, I probably wouldn't get invited to very many parties after that. Moreover, I probably wouldn't have any right to get pissed if that happened.

And, yes, it's fun to run around at parties, dick-slapping people. It's a good time and a great story. However, do you really want to be that guy? Is that what you want people to think of when your name comes up?

Admittedly, this metaphor has run away from me somewhat. I suppose what confuses me with all the anger is what exactly would be lost by not using slurs to describe things. Would your life be meaningfully impacted? Would some great joy be missing?

On the other hand, consider the good done by not engaging in behaviour that contributes to human misery.

So I'd like you to answer a question: Why shouldn't we show some empathy and give people this small kindness?

Zontar:

idk why this is shocking or controversial lmao

I don't think you understand where the controversy in all this is. It isn't that JonTron called something that is retarded retarded, it's that there was such a massive backlash against it. That's where the real controversy is all this lies.

I think I've pretty much said my piece to be honest, but just to touch on this...

Hold on to your seats everyone, I'm about to drop a seriously radical idea on you. Are you ready? Sitting down? Strapped in? Got some smelling salts just in case you're overcome by a case of the vapors? Okay, here we go:

Sometimes things you don't understand are very important to other people.

To a lot of people, not using slurs against one another IS really important. It's important enough to fight for, and it's important enough to get angry about, because they know how that feels and how it impacts themselves or others. You don't have to be completely on board, but it doesn't make them invalid just because you can't understand them.

If you feel so inclined, maybe sit down and talk to them and listen as to why they think that using slurs is harmful. Listen to their point of view, listen to their evidence, and your mind might just be changed.

But what happened is that this Jon guy said something, and people told him it wasn't acceptable, and he mocked them for it. It's not a surprise that people are angry with him. It's not a surprise that some of his fanbase is leaving. It's not a surprise that people are less inclined to support him (financially and otherwise). You can say what you like*, but that doesn't protect you from consequences. And this means that Jon is not going to be protected from the consequences of people being angry with him for what he said.

When you say something offensive, it's not surprising when people get offended. Crazy coincidence, inn't? \_(ツ)_/

*An aside for a pet peeve: first amendment, whatever amendment, it has absolutely nothing to do with this. The first amendment only protects from GOVERNMENT censorship. When you use a service like twitter, or this very forum, you are essentially on private property. So no, you can't say whatever you like: you can say whatever THEY will tolerate, otherwise they will ask you to leave and suspend you from using the service. And it never, ever protects from the consequences of your speech. The first amendment will never save you when people get angry about an offensive thing you've said.

Ignorance is an awful thing, it makes you sexist, bigoted and generally offensive, all without realising it. I was like this once, however I learnt better, and JonTron should do the same.

One sec, let me check something...

...nope, don't give a shit.

Someone called someone/something retarded on the internet. Why should this surprise me? Why should I care? Well, JonTron is mildly famous, so I guess we HAVE to care.

Should he have said that? Probably not.
Should he apologize? Probably.

But frankly, I can't be arsed to care whether or not he does. Bear in mind, I actually LIKE JonTron. But this is such a stupid and insignificant thing to get riled up over.

I don't think anyone should be defending OR attacking Jon on this one. Can't we all just say "Well, that wasn't a very nice thing to say" and move on with our lives?

QuietlyListening:
I see nothing wrong with encouraging empathy.

What truly mystifies me is the outrage on the other side. I ask again, what's so bad about people showing a little consideration and not being jerks? What's the point of defending jerkish behaviour and encouraging spite and meanness?

Because if people are going to judge empathy based on someone's usage of a word with no ill intent meant to those associated with the word, then I consider them backwards.

No one is defending jerkish behavior, they're criticizing overzealous political correctness.

Totalbiscuit:

Some people got offended that @jontronshow called the PS4 retarded when that would be the accurate, literal definition of it as a console, "delay or hold back in terms of progress, development, or accomplishment.". Oh no, somebody please save us from our own ignorance of the English language and the offense we ourselves take as a result!

Even if the first tweet was using the literal term, the response he gave certainly did not. This defense is extremely flawed. It is like called someone a "fag" and defending yourself by saying "fag" is just a term for a cigarette.

Harpalyce:
Snip

Yeah, well I don't take kindly to people using a condensing and patronizing tone with me mixed with a failed attempt at sarcasm to try and make their point have more gravitas then it actually does, but you don't see me making long post rants about how it's the worst thing ever.

Being offended is not an argument for or against anything. I'm offended when someone tells me I should move back to wherever I came from, that I should leave my fair province for whatever reason, even though I was born and lived here all my life. You know what I do? I either ignore them, tell them to fuck off, use even MORE colourful language (of the beauty of the French language), or I'll just deck them.

But you know what I'll do when someone asks me where I'm from? I'll just tell them "here" and be done with it. I've never met a Franco who didn't think I was one of them due to my last name, or a foreigner due to my accent (despite my accent being similar to most of my countrymen).

Funny thing is, under the microagressions hypothesis I should in theory be both damaged mentally and take offence to both equally despite the fact that one is an insult and the other is genuine curiosity that I just get asked more often then I'd like. Yet only one rubs me the wrong way for some odd reason.

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