| (Pages: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11) | |
Paperboy  Posts: 39 Joined: 6 Feb 2009    | |
Anonymous Source  Posts: 6 Joined: 5 Sep 2008  | All I can say is that Eve is the most fun I've had playing a game (online/offline, Multi or Single Player) in years... I like playing a game where you can play it (mainly) single player (Hi-Sec mission runner) all the way out to Mega-Multi play (0.0 Alliances) and anything in between... If there is no risk, the reward for succeeding is irrelevant. AK }:-)> |
On the Record  Posts: 6234 Joined: 10 Aug 2008     | If I could go back a year or so, I'd totally play Eve just to witness this. Heh. It's things like this that make MMOs fun. |
Gone Gonzo  Posts: 1378 Joined: 16 Jul 2008   |
Play now, you can still witness the same things. Happens all the time, just not in such grand scale. |
Press Junketeer  Posts: 395 Joined: 3 Oct 2008    |
I played a Priest... i despised your class :P |
Gone Gonzo  Posts: 2753 Joined: 2 Aug 2006     | I finally figured it out. I got to the real basic nature of the thing, and it's so ridiculously simple it's stupid. Lets say you're playing a the high and mighty director of a major EVE alliance... and you're bored. You rage against the people in the alliance who are not quite as bored as you to do something else, but they basically shoot you down as putting the corporation in risk. So you decide to try to burn away the monotony doing something you don't normally do, like mining. You run across a fellow who scams you, and it's the most exciting thing to happen to you in awhile, but hardly surprising - scamming happens in EVE Online all the time. Then, the spark of something great impacts you: "Since life in EVE Online so very terrible for you, why not commit EVE Online suicide and go out with a bang?" You know you've been in contact with a Goon, and you're experienced enough with the game to know know exactly what the Goonfleet/Goonswarm stands for. However, you're so sickeningly bored of the game you don't even want to play anymore, you want to burn this bridge you have with BoB good, so you decide to see about doing the most damage you can possible. The rest, as they say, is history. One player's overwhelming incredible boredom of EVE Online destroyed one of the most powerful (if not the most powerful) alliance in EVE Online. There wasn't a superspy realizing the clever manipulation of an entire alliance of players - it was one bored player quitting EVE and deciding to go out with a bang, or perhaps a supernova. That's all it was. I told you it was so ridiculously simple it's stupid. Where's my proof? Well, only those chat logs again. When the player starts talking about how he doesn't care if he loses everything, that's pretty much the clincher right there. |
Gone Gonzo  Posts: 1436 Joined: 19 Jun 2008    | I really hope this spy planned it from the start. That would be awesome. I mean, it'd some serious hardcore James Bond stuff to charm your way to being a big gun only to totally destroy the place. |
Gone Gonzo  Posts: 4582 Joined: 22 Jun 2008    |
Hey, SHK is setting up a eve corporation for TE. :) |
Paperboy Posts: 39 Joined: 6 Feb 2009 |
He wasn't a spy, he was a defector. Like during the Cold War when Russians would get sick of the Kremlin's shit, claim asylum in America and tell everything they knew.
This doesn't sound to me like a man ready to quit the game. Maybe if I smoked a lot of crack or had some sort of bizarre obsession with convincing everyone that a game I don't play is terrible then it would, but thankfully neither of those is the case. That's what really gets on my nerves. I don't play Eve anymore, but there are different styles of games and they suit different people. I love Eve for the depth of its virtual world. I love that it has player-run banks and poker dens, chain letters and IPOs, characters like Chribba and even (grudgingly) Istvaan. I love that it let me do fucking Kon Tiki in space, like that episode of DS9 with the solar sail ship. That was wonderfully geeky, and an experience like no other computer gaming has afforded me. I love Warhammer Online for the clean, quick delivery of PvP action, the interesting classes, the nice variety of zones. I like that it's the first level-based mmog where I've gone from avoiding PvP to excelling at it. (Even in Eve, I was a very casual fighter.) I love City of Heroes because it allows me to express myself through my character in a way no other game does. I love hanging out at the AH and reading people's bios or taking pictures of different costumes. Now matter how awesome a character I come up with, there's always something out there that makes me wish I'd thought of it. I object to people slagging off Eve simply because they don't like that style of game because Eve is pretty much the only one of its kind. All the other games went the theme park route of WoW/WAR/EQ/CoH where players grind through the content. Eve gave us a game where the players are the content. Is it a perfect implementation of the idea? No. Is it a game I want to play? No. But it's fucking awesome that it's there for the people who do want to play it, and anyone who says otherwise can kiss my pasty Amarrian ass. |
Gone Gonzo Posts: 2753 Joined: 2 Aug 2006 | Another interesting thing about this is that apparently BoB was "terrible, long-dead alliance and they all know it" with only 70 players playing it during prime time. At least according to the guy who masterminded its downfall (7:15-7:20 on the video). I don't know where these thousands of players who are playing EVE Online every night are, but apparently they're not anywhere near where this transpired. It's enough to make me wonder if CCP might be exaggerating those online player counts. |
Gone Gonzo Posts: 2753 Joined: 2 Aug 2006 |
Just so you know - yes, putting our recent raking eachother's faces with claws behind us - I really don't have a problem with people who play EVE Online and enjoy it. All I was saying - and no, I'm not going to start this up again - all I was saying is that it's not the type of game I want to play. The trouble is, I explained why. Naturally, that's going to sound negative because I'm explaining the specific reasons I don't like it. However, if you interpret this as "digging into the game" there's not a thing I can do about it. If you're going to take this cheeky, "kiss my Amarran ass, it's fine" attitude you might as well say nothing. It's not like you're in any danger of changing your mind, so why should you expect others? I was equally at fault for even bothering to defend my position. Why should I care if you disagree with my opinion? That's how opinions work. If there was some fact (as opposed to opinion) at the bottom of this matter, that would be something to bicker over. However, as I was never saying there's no reason other people who are not me could enjoy EVE Online, there was nothing to argue over. Unfortunately, it seems my great distaste towards the game spilled over in such a way that I framed it in a way that it made it sound like people who play the game must be deluding themselves, called myself a "gaming purist," I started getting into the nitty gritty of what makes an entertaining game, and well - one snafu after another, straight into the trash it went. You can take that as an apology if you want, but honestly, if we apologized for something like this, we'd never be done. It was stupid human nature, I'm ashamed of its existence, and unfortunately any involved parties had to exhibit it as well or else there'd have been nothing to bounce it off of. |
Gone Gonzo  Posts: 3783 Joined: 3 Apr 2008    |
me looking at the login screen right now shows 50,000 people playing |
Gone Gonzo Posts: 2753 Joined: 2 Aug 2006 |
Sure. However, what's the code behind the login screen really doing? How is the count derived? Is it: Start with 0 when servers come up, add 1 every time somebody logs in, subtract 1 every time somebody logs out. You'd think so. Taking a constant count of online players would be too CPU intensive, so this add one/subtract one code is the most likely. However, the thing is, we don't know for sure. It could be they have some other kind of formula where maybe they count players as "online" if they logged in during the past several hours. Some kind of passive system justified with some line like, "well, if we removed them immediately, then people might try gaming the system by doing offline when they're online." Worse case scenario, maybe they slowly add in 45000 fake players to their count. I'm paranoid? Maybe. However, can you prove that your faith is justified? It's not like CCP has government regulation breathing down their neck here. I prefer to call it open-mindedness. I'd like to see a population map, myself. Where do most of the players hang out? Apparently, nowhere near BoB when this transpired. |
Gone Gonzo Posts: 3783 Joined: 3 Apr 2008 |
You do realise that the BoB thing wasn't a battle... and BoB is pretty much the only alliance to be in that area permanently. also the biggest hub is Jita... I have seen in excess of 1200 people there. Jita is a looooong way from Delve |
Gone Gonzo Posts: 2753 Joined: 2 Aug 2006 |
That's exactly what I realize. It wasn't a battle because they were pretty much able to walze all those ships out the door without anyone getting in the way because there was apparently nobody there to notice. At least according to the guy in that video.
Is that highsec space? Nevermind, a little digging around and I answered my own question. So, you've found there to be 1200 players in the busiest place in the game. Maybe a few hundred in surrounding systems. If BoB's an example of the average alliance, we can assume there's about 70-250 online during prime time. How many alliances that substantial - maybe 50 or so. Maybe throw in a thousand or two newbies zooming around the universities... Hmm, I'm not sure how they reach 50,000 players. Yeah, some kind of population map would be cool to explain that. |
Gone Gonzo Posts: 3783 Joined: 3 Apr 2008 |
You really want the population map? I'll go get the population map |
Gone Gonzo Posts: 2753 Joined: 2 Aug 2006 | Would be cool, my google failed has failed to locate a population map thus far. I found an alliance influence map but that's not the same thing as "where are these 50,000ish players hanging around at prime time?" Especially when I rarely see that many when I'm flying about, and apparently this giant BoB alliance of many corps has 70ish players online at best. |
Paperboy Posts: 39 Joined: 6 Feb 2009 |
Then why are you spending so much time and clutching at so many straws to make the game look bad, Yetich? Why did you lie about the content of the chatlogs, Yetich? Inquiring minds want to know. |
Gone Gonzo Posts: 3783 Joined: 3 Apr 2008 | I can't find the map but EVE jsut hit 52,000 people. A new record and was confirmed by EVE TV. EDIT: I'll screenshot one tomorrow. The big red blobs will be the Trade hubs |
Gone Gonzo  Posts: 4501 Joined: 6 Sep 2008     | Okay, I lubed up the spreadsheets. Who wants to bend over and take it first? He doesn't sound like he's clutching at straws to me, he sounds like he's laying out logical and reasonable arguments for his concerns. Which is totally against the spirit of the internet, the fool. I'm usually the first to cry failboy but I don't smell it here. |
Infamous Scribbler  Posts: 596 Joined: 5 Dec 2008  | wait what happened? i was lost at the third paragraph abouts |
Gone Gonzo Posts: 3783 Joined: 3 Apr 2008 |
Shut it |
Gone Gonzo Posts: 2753 Joined: 2 Aug 2006 |
Am I trying to make the game look bad? You know, I think I might be. My brain bits must not have shifted from the side of the fence I found myself forced on by overzealous EVE Online defenders. I suspect I just want to rub said EVE Online defender's noses in something incriminating to get back them. Maybe I should ask you why, if you're not an EVE Online defender, and you don't play the game anymore, you use a forum avatar of the game avatar? It sort of calls your bias into question. Your brain bits may be as misaligned as mine, perhaps moreso. I might not like EVE Online, but I don't have an anti-EVE Online Avatar.
I'm going to have to hear a specific about that. I could be wrong when I say something, but I don't deliberately lie about anything. So, to me at least, you come off as being a raging delusional windbag whenever you insist I am lying. Just saying you should probably be a little more discerning between a lie or a mistake, misrecollection, or different perspective, is all. You don't win arguments by calling the other person a liar. You do, however, call attention to yourself. The thing is, you seem to want to win arguments through brute force intimidation. That tendency to glare at people is the same thing as demanding they're a liar. It might work on some people, especially in real life, but what does it really prove? You're pretty much pointing a gun at their head. Sure, you might feel like you "won" but you proved nothing - they're just letting you get away with being wrong because you pointed at gun at their head. It's not a healthy argument style. If you don't abandon it, one day somebody's going to whip out something in return: somebody's going to get hurt, and whoever's left standing is holding the bag. It doesn't matter how old you are, that's not 'grown up' behavior, my friend. |
Gone Gonzo Posts: 4501 Joined: 6 Sep 2008 |
Haargoth Agamar, a major director of Band of Brothers, an EVE online corporate super power thats older then Jesus and twice as magical, went turncoat on his own corp and walked out the door with billions of ingame currency and equipment including expensive ships. He went turncoat to The GoonSquad, of SomethingAweful fame (i'd never heard of them or SomethingAweful before this due to my aversion to net-drama), which is basically the proto-type of 4chan- internet absurdists who love to lame, troll, and generally fuck with people because "the internet is not serious fucking business." Mittani then disbanded the corporation by not paying it's bills (serious) and GoonSquad bought the rights to the Band of Brother's name, effectivly and perminantly destroying it. A replacement alliance sprang up right after but because of game mechanics they won't have control over their sectors network of static defenses for 3 Real Life months, during which time the many smaller corporations are expected to pick them apart like Pirahana on a cow owing to BoB's reputation as schoolyard bullies. Analogies have been made that if the United States lost it's carrier fleet and 2/5ths of the rest of it's military military along 3/4th's it's money suddenly and collapsed into a loosly held together confederation of states. Of course, at the same time, the many alliances formed to oppose the unstoppable power of BoB are alliances of mutual disgust, and are expected to ALSO fall apart once BoB has been picked clean. All in all it IS a very interesting situation, and it highlights what IS interesting and awesome about the game. Unfortunatly the social networking is apparently the biggest draw as the rest of the game is grind. Or SO I HEAR, i've never played it- though Theo Samartian and stories like these tempt me from time to time. My take on this is this gentleman slowly grew to hate and loathe the dreary restrictiveness of his corporate life and the ennui of success- he hated how nothing ever changed and he was incredibly bored. Then he get's scammed by GoonSquad who seem to be full of lul's, and thinks, "maybe they got something here. Now how can I become a GoonSquad God and hang with these guys?" And so, BoB was destroyed. Naoh bend ova boi, cause e're comes da spreadsheets, hurr hurr hurr. |
Copy Clerk Posts: 63 Joined: 14 Nov 2008   | If you look at those chat logs and the Audio-Video account,they guy was tired of mind games. "Strategists,when they do good they get a pat on the back. When they fail they get impaled." Through my gaming career i noticed that Foot soldiers look down on leaders. They are hard pressed and rarely are respected as much as they should be. It's alot like being a president. Everyone just hates you,mostly because when they tell you what needs to be done-even if it benefits you. You have to work. I was late in my career a solo Miner/Trader. Who sometimes hired one or two of my good friends to help me get safely through a run. Clans,once they get that big i find incredibly boring. They don't want or really need you,but they always want you to give or make them stuff. And i always found i got little in return so i went solo. Being a foot soldier you end up with alot more action. I found that being a leader means you are always hunted,and rarely properly rewarded. Mining and Trading i always enjoyed so that's what i did,Following the market,creating special Supply and Demand maps for sale and personal use While mining. |
Paperboy Posts: 39 Joined: 6 Feb 2009 |
There's no reason to suspect Eve of faking player counts, because there's no evidence to suggest they have. You might as well accuse Blizzard of the same thing, and it would be more plausible because Blizzard claims far less modest numbers. And if you read the chat logs, you'll see that the man he said was overwhelmingly, incredibly bored of Eve was in fact eager to keep playing Eve and liked playing with the goons better than he liked playing with BoB. Yetich also claimed that he 'didn't care if he lost all of his progress' when what he actually said was he was 'fine with' not being 'trusted with anything leadership-related'. Which is far from the same thing. This is quite understandable - I was offered a directorship in Goonfleet back in the early days, and I turned it down. Being a director isn't the only way to 'win' at Eve. You talk about his 'concerns' - he doesn't play the game and doesn't like the sort of game it is, so why is it any concern of his how many people play or whether people are bored of the game or not? As he's already admitted he's just being childish and trying to spite Eve fans, but it'll be a shame if he puts off anyone who might actually enjoy the game with his dishonesty. |
Gone Gonzo Posts: 4501 Joined: 6 Sep 2008 | Fair enough, but can I play EVE without formatting spreadsheets or looking at the stock report? Honestly i've THOUGHT about it, I really have, but it sounds like the end game is just... dreary poo flinging. Edit: oh and when I post something, you should probably wait a good 10 minutes before responding, I tend to be spastic and make edits or add new things XD |
Paperboy Posts: 39 Joined: 6 Feb 2009 |
The BoB defector is named Haargoth Agamar. The Mittani (or 'Mittens') is the head of Goonswarm Intelligence and has been since 2006. He was the one who took over once Tamir Lenk, (oh god why do half these people sound like Cardassians?) the low-ranking goon who recruited Haargoth realised he was out of his depth.
Depends what you do with yourself. I personally loved spreadsheets and spent more time in Excel than in the client, so I'm not really the best person to ask. If you don't do manufacturing and trade you don't need spreadsheets. I know some people will just run missions and grind up their status until they can make decent money that way. Also running small, valuable cargos along risky routes is profitable and heartpounding fun. (Hint: The Sigil is the best hauler in the game.) Finally, some corps will give their members free ships to fight in, (the goons in particular are good about making sure everyone has at least a frigate so they can attack en masse) although if you want T2 stuff you'll probably have to pay for it yourself. |
Gone Gonzo Posts: 4501 Joined: 6 Sep 2008 |
K, let me edit that then. |
Gone Gonzo Posts: 2753 Joined: 2 Aug 2006 |
Though I played a little of it back in beta, I gave EVE Online another try not too long ago (last Summer, I think). I tried out the 14-day trial, and enjoyed the game enough to subscribe to it after the trial lapsed. I'm analytically minded enough that I would perform manual calculations and whatnot using the in-game notepad and calculator in order to find out where the best place to sell my ore was and whatnot. Basically, you can figure out who is offering to buy your stuff for the most through simple calculations. Whether you get more for refining it yourself or selling the ore directly is one major consideration, the same goes for whether or not to recycle components into ore or sell them for what's offered. Spreadsheets would have worked too, but for simple transactions that really isn't necessary. I liked the math - it made the game interesting. I liked the concepts behind the weapon balance and ships too. The game had improved a lot since beta. However, before my second month of subscription, I had reached the point where I couldn't see why I should bother. It seemed to me that EVE Online, like many MMORPGs, was a bit of a tired fossil this late into the game because of all the accruing of veteran players put the newbies at a disadvantage. However, it was several times worse in EVE Online because there were aspects such as training time, and massive player corporation assets, and other things that assured to perpetually keep new players down. Pretty much the best thing you can do is harvest rocks or grind missions until you accrued enough ISK to invest, and maybe that'll make you enough ISK to have half a chance at the big leagues, or maybe it'll turn out you're scammed and SOL. At the bottom line, while I could appreciate the dynamic content and other such aspects of EVE Online, I couldn't see why this would be fun in the long run. As a ludicrously advanced player, I had pretty much mastered most significant aspects of ship piloting and module mixing in well under a month, all that was left was a loooong grind ahead, waiting for skill points to accrue, earning ISK (which was perpetually in jeopardy), and when I finally got to where the established players were today, they'd have jumped light years ahead of where they were. If the game itself was fun to play outside of the economy, that'd be something. But how hard is it to park your ship and turn on the mining beams while watching the contact list? I could do flat out PvP, sure, but why throw away my ISK on a suicide run against veterans who could replace their ships much easier than me? Many veteran EVE Online players I talk to about this really don't realize how much of a problem this is. This is probably because, unlike me, they have a chance. They were there long enough to grind those skill points and isk ahead of me. In their neck of the words, there's nothing wrong - it's hard to sympathize. Yes, I don't like EVE Online. Yes, I want to rub EVE online defenders nose in this. However, in many significant ways, my dislike is legitimized. EVE Online didn't so much not match my taste as it did kick me out for being late to the party. It was probably inevitable, though. I don't really like the idea of unregulated, popularity-contest based PvP, on the grounds that fair competition doesn't exist in a scenario without population restriction. It's like having an American football match where the players can join whatever team they want, and there's no minimum or maximum number of players for the team - when it's 20 players on 2, it's not much a game. The 20 players aren't truly challenged, and the 2 players had better run if they don't want any broken bones. EVE Online's end game is nothing but that. I don't know what I was thinking to even give it a spin, other than perhaps to get some firsthand experience with what present-day EVE Online was. I think my prognosis that the only real reason to play EVE Online is for the drama is dead on. I suspect most veteran EVE Online players with their heads screwed on straight would agree: they sure don't play it to turn asteroids into components alone. I don't know why I'd bother talk to anyone who argued against this, it's just too obvious. It's a train wreck, sure, but train wrecks are plenty entertaining for the spectators. |
Press Junketeer Posts: 495 Joined: 10 Jan 2009  | Wow. EVE Online sounds really, really unappealing. |
BANNED  Posts: 206 Joined: 9 Jul 2008   | hasn't it occurred to people that the majority of this took place outside of the game? by a yes it is interesting that hundreds of people are now able to come together on one server and |
Gone Gonzo Posts: 3783 Joined: 3 Apr 2008 |
How and why? |
Gone Gonzo Posts: 2753 Joined: 2 Aug 2006 |
I suspect that was in reply to my post. |
Press Junketeer  Posts: 418 Joined: 4 Sep 2008 |
the same thing happened to me, so im too lazy and i dont have enough time to play that for the amount of time it takes to level up and actually have fun in the game. |
| (Pages: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11) | |
Reply to Thread
|
|
Not registered? Sign up for a free account! |
No, I'm not missing it, it's my whole point. Dragon's Gold is a game about bargaining.
By definition quitting the game to avoid losing is a meta-game tactic, because it takes you outside the game. Changing from one side to another within the game is not.