Dissing Mass Effect Andromeda because it has diversity and equality

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So, I have zero interest in Mass Effect Andromeda.
I never liked that series anyway.

When I heard people were bashing the animations of that game, fun was had when I watched videos and gifs that show all the wacky mistakes. I didn't care if the game wouldn't sell - I was tired of that series to begin with.

However.... I then stopped to read the comments.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p-msmx9yW5Q

From blaming it all on a female developer and claiming she was hired just for minority quota (as if animations are made by a single person), to mocking the characters because they aren't supersexy, to calling Bioware "anti-white", and so on and on and on. Almost all of the comments are about that, and they hardly discuss the actual game.

Then, a very different picture formed in my mind. And I no longer had fun watching the videos about the game glitches.

Why is it so many crappy uninspired sequels are released, but only this Mass Effect Andromeda gets bashed so much?

It appears people hate the game for "having too many non-white human characters" and "not very sexy girls".

(...Wait, I can't see my thread.... glitch?)

Congratulations, you just discovered that YouTube comment section is full of shitty people. These are probably the same people that complained about the new Beauty and the Beast movie because of one insignificant gay character.

Nature Guardian:
(...Wait, I can't see my thread.... glitch?)

After the maintenance, for whatever reason, threads/people's posts don't appear immediately in the forum page. Not sure why and I hope they figure it out. Sidenote; I removed your dup thread already if you're wondering why it disappeared.

OT: Stupid people are being stupid? On the internet?!?! Actually, yeah, that sounds about right...

Adam Jensen:
Congratulations, you just discovered that YouTube comment section is full of shitty people. These are probably the same people that complained about the new Beauty and the Beast movie because of one insignificant gay character.

To be fair, it did change the character dynamic from hero worship to hero whoreship(emphasis on the ship).

But yeah, mostly insignificant, but it wasn't something that was needed or added anything positive to the work either. Though Emma Watson was a lead in it, so it was probably fated to be poorly done anyways.

As for why Andromeda, because it's a C-tier game made by C-tier fanboys and it's using the name of the parent company and largely loved franchise to sell more than anything. I mean, people still say the same crap about everything post 1980 Star Wars.

Not saying it's good to single out a single dev, but it's simpler to blame one person you can put a face to than the people that hired her and allowed her to continue to work after seeing what she could do. Especially since there's been a large public outcry that people need their jobs and saying that an entire studio sucks has recently just been spun into "You just want to put everyone out of work" the majority of the time, even around this part of the internet.

I must spend too much time on One Angry Gamer(website owned and run by "GameJournoPros" whistleblower William Usher) when I can honestly say that I firmly believe that the people working on Andromeda were purely hired because of diversity quotas.

And it probably says something even worse about me when I can say sincerely that I believe that's the biggest reason Andromeda is going to be shit.

tippy2k2:

Nature Guardian:
(...Wait, I can't see my thread.... glitch?)

After the maintenance, for whatever reason, threads/people's posts don't appear immediately in the forum page. Not sure why and I hope they figure it out. Sidenote; I removed your dup thread already if you're wondering why it disappeared.

OT: Stupid people are being stupid? On the internet?!?! Actually, yeah, that sounds about right...

Thanks for removing the double thread, I was gonna ask that!

So, stupid people being stupid is ok (or not?), but..... it put the whole thing in a perspective I didn't like. It went from "ahahah look how Bioware dropped the ball" to "oh my gosh these idiot fanboys are really pushing hard to cancel all progress of equality... it's frightening".

On the "Bioware is Anti-white" thing.

This image has been floating around for a bit, and recently made it to the front page of Gaming on Reddit. Thus the spike in people saying it, most likely.

image

Now, he's clearly racist, there's not really any doubt about that. But, it seems a bit overblown to suggest this entirely affects the game and that the whole company is "Anti-white", there's no evidence that he's in any position to affect the game.

However, it certainly doesn't fill me with much joy to know there's people like that working in the industry. Racism is unacceptable in any form.

The character creator doesn't let you make a character paler than "Mocha", which has been addressed by the lead designer here:
https://twitter.com/tibermoon/status/842476969518350336

Something they're fixing, apparently.

The Lunatic:
*Manveer Heir being a racist shitbag*

The one thing I want to know is why this man was never called out by his employers for being a racist shitbag.

American Tanker:
The one thing I want to know is why this man was never called out by his employers for being a racist shitbag.

Honestly, I've no idea. They even let him speak to the Press about the game, and game industry in general.

If it was some random coder, or some modeller who wasn't a public face, I'd understand them not catching that the guy has said racist shit on twitter.

But, he's been the public face in several interviews. It's... Difficult to quite understand why they wouldn't have done something about that.

What, that's it? I've seen more offensive mayonnaise jokes. This thin-skinned hand-wringing is getting ridiculous.

OT: But yeah, clearly, the wonky animations in a AAA that had multiple levels of supervision and sign-offs is clearly the fault of a possibly under-experienced team lead. One of several.

And while we're at it, we're apparently going to discount that Mass Effect has always had wonky animations. It's like if idiots got really mad at a single coding lead because Skyrim's horses could walk straight up mountains, because they were obviously a "diversity hire"

Adam Jensen:
the new Beauty and the Beast movie because of one insignificant gay character.

What Gay Character?

Samtemdo8:

Adam Jensen:
the new Beauty and the Beast movie because of one insignificant gay character.

What Gay Character?

Gaston's sidekick who was implicitly crushing on Gaston went to explicitly crushing on Gaston.

Shallow dickheads gonna shallow dickhead. Am honestly getting a little fedup of these double standards constantly pronounced online. It's time to take a bit of a break methinks. This ain't the hobby community for me it would seem.

altnameJag:
What, that's it? I've seen more offensive mayonnaise jokes. This thin-skinned hand-wringing is getting ridiculous.

No, that's not it.

That's the image which has been posted. As I said. Not the full extent of everything he has ever said.

He's all spoke about killing white people and so on. If you want more, you're welcome to go view his twitter.

American Tanker:
I must spend too much time on One Angry Gamer(website owned and run by "GameJournoPros" whistleblower William Usher) when I can honestly say that I firmly believe that the people working on Andromeda were purely hired because of diversity quotas.

Well I don't know why they were hired, but looking at the game it doesn't seem like they hired the best people for the job. The game just looks soulless.

So in other news, the grass is green, the sky is blue, my shit is brown, and shits are on the Internet too.

But bad poetry aside, I'm not sure how Average Joe works out that bad facial animations are somehow pushing some SJW agenda, or that bad facial animations are the result of "SJW's." I mean, okay, SQW's tend to see any divergence from the norm as being part of a conspiracy, but this is Mass Effect. MASS EFFECT. A setting where various species of various biologies have to work together, and in some cases, sleep together. Mass Effect has been diverse from day 1.

Ah gaming, still the hobby of choice for mature, well-adjusted adults I see.

Hawki:
But bad poetry aside, I'm not sure how Average Joe works out that bad facial animations are somehow pushing some SJW agenda, or that bad facial animations are the result of "SJW's."

Oh, and angle is that the "SJWs" intentionally made the female characters look crappy to kill gamer boners.

No, I'm not making this up. People have been grumbling about it since the very first WIP demo reel which showed the Asari squadmate's face and she was promptly deemed insufficiently attractive.

Zhukov:
No, I'm not making this up. People have been grumbling about it since the very first WIP demo reel which showed the Asari squadmate's face and she was promptly deemed insufficiently attractive.

Well you compare the looks and anims of this Peebee character to those of Dr. T'Soni from back in ME1.

And damn, it's not even just the asari I found at least somewhat attractive even back then. You look at a bunch of the human females, too, I'd consider more than a few of them attractive: Dr. Michel, from the health clinic in the Citadel Wards. Emily Wong, the reporter. Ashley, the Alliance soldier. And that's not even half of them.

I honestly do believe that even if BioWare have never been known for their animation quality, they were never THIS bad. Not even at their worst were they as bad as what's been seen from Andromeda.

I am deeply troubled by the notion of a game "having equality" on a logical basis. You can say this game has dragons, or chainsaws, or big cities to traverse. Equality isn't quite that easy to pinpoint, however. Exactly what is the formula used to measure and find it not wanting?

To me it seems the game is praised for "having equality" due to people's arbitrary feeling of it having "enough" (whatever that means) people of specific groups, regardless of how it treats them, weather they're tropey or actual characters, etc.

In that sense, people supporting the game due to these traits (or feeling bad about them being bashed in comments on youtube) fundamentally view them in the same exact way as those who are bashing them do. There's no individuality, just groups, and all that changes is weather you feel positive or negative towards these groups and the resulting good feels and self-patting in the back for being a good person.

I just don't care if it's equal or unequal or if it "has" diversity (again, how do me measure it, how many gay trans eschimos do we need before we "have" diversity?), I just care about weather the individual chars are compelling or not.

Meh. I find that comment section pretty tame compared to Middle Earth: Shadow of War's announcement trailer's. A black dude shows up for all of 2 seconds and the comment section's filled with people complaining about lore in a game that took massive liberties in the first place.

The anti-white thing seems to be because the player cannot create a white Ryder. It seems to be the anti-sjw crowd jumping at the chance to point out the hypocrisy and call everyone cucks or whatever.

American Tanker:

Zhukov:
No, I'm not making this up. People have been grumbling about it since the very first WIP demo reel which showed the Asari squadmate's face and she was promptly deemed insufficiently attractive.

Well you compare the looks and anims of this Peebee character to those of Dr. T'Soni from back in ME1.

*shrug*

Matter of taste I guess. Animation quality aside, I'm not really seeing the terrible problem here.

Besides, you know you can have a female character without them automatically looking like a supermodel, right? It's allowed to happen.

And damn, it's not even just the asari I found at least somewhat attractive even back then. You look at a bunch of the human females, too, I'd consider more than a few of them attractive: Dr. Michel, from the health clinic in the Citadel Wards...

Emily Wong, the reporter.

I honestly do believe that even if BioWare have never been known for their animation quality, they were never THIS bad. Not even at their worst were they as bad as what's been seen from Andromeda.

Oh, bullshit.

I didn't even cherry-pick that. I just typed "dragon age origins dialogue" into youtube and clicked at random.

I suppose I should make it clear that I'm not trying to defend the quality of animation in Andromeda. It's shoddy stuff. But that's business as usual for Bioware. Their animation department is clearly under-resourced and always has been. I would like to see them do better. I realize that going full Naughty Dog doesn't mesh well with dialogue options and would be prohibitively expensive for games with as much dialogue as theirs. However it would be nice if they could at least manage something along the lines of Witcher 3 which managed to animate okay despite using dialogue options.

The standard of work on display is disappointing, but pretending like it's something new is a bit silly and blaming it on the SJW Shadow Government is the product of sad and deluded minds that really, really need to get outside more.

Captain Marvelous:
The anti-white thing seems to be because the player cannot create a white Ryder. It seems to be the anti-sjw crowd jumping at the chance to point out the hypocrisy and call everyone cucks or whatever.

Wait, what? Every trailer features a Ryder white enough to shoot up a school. If I see someone paler than that in real life I ask them if they're feeling ill and I'm living on scandinavias doorstep, so... Do these people go outside? "White" doesn't mean "pale as chalk".

Hawki:
But bad poetry aside, I'm not sure how Average Joe works out that bad facial animations are somehow pushing some SJW agenda, or that bad facial animations are the result of "SJW's."

Didn't Bioware say something about going out of there way to make sure all the characters in Andromeda had faults and what not? So they didn't end up being "unrealistically" beautiful? I think thats probably where the average Joe got that from. It looks like they designed all the faces around not triggering the tumblr crowd who cry about unrealistic beauty standards rather than what the engine can pull off in terms of animations.

RiseOfTheWhiteWolf:

Didn't Bioware say something about going out of there way to make sure all the characters in Andromeda had faults and what not? So they didn't end up being "unrealistically" beautiful? I think thats probably where the average Joe got that from. It looks like they designed all the faces around not triggering the tumblr crowd who cry about unrealistic beauty standards rather than what the engine can pull off in terms of animations.

I don't know, but if they did, the idea of having characters having flaws is generally considered to be good writing. As for physical appearances, that's comparatively minor. When people talk about why they like characters in fiction, it's usually because of personality traits. Physical appearance can add to one's appreciation of a character, but it's rarely at the core of it.

Haven't played Andromeda, so can't comment on animations directly though.

Hawki:

RiseOfTheWhiteWolf:

Didn't Bioware say something about going out of there way to make sure all the characters in Andromeda had faults and what not? So they didn't end up being "unrealistically" beautiful? I think thats probably where the average Joe got that from. It looks like they designed all the faces around not triggering the tumblr crowd who cry about unrealistic beauty standards rather than what the engine can pull off in terms of animations.

I don't know, but if they did, the idea of having characters having flaws is generally considered to be good writing. As for physical appearances, that's comparatively minor. When people talk about why they like characters in fiction, it's usually because of personality traits. Physical appearance can add to one's appreciation of a character, but it's rarely at the core of it.

Haven't played Andromeda, so can't comment on animations directly though.

The problem is that in most fiction where they're talking about it, they don't have a visual representation of the character with said qualities staring out at them.

I mean, take GoT for example, Tyrion is supposed to be at that point of being insufferably ugly before the King's Landing battle, and he's not supposed to have the majority of his face afterwards. But in the show, he's moderately handsome - even your worst criticism of the guy is something along the lines of farmboy homeliness - and after, he's just got a pretty fetching scar as far as facial scars go. The Hound is supposed to have bits of bone showing through the burn on his face and to nearly have that milky-white eye thing going on. Theon is supposed to essentially be your typical bishounen(pre-Bolton era). These are all characters that are beloved in the fanbase for one reason or another, and the majority of their visual counterparts look nothing like their descriptors.

Nothing wrong with it, but people like to play games because while flaws are great, there's a point where "your flaws are showing" crosses into "I don't know what you're trying to convey because you have no discernible facial muscles". Not to mention, if you look at most of the models for the male characters, you can see there hasn't been nearly as much work done to showcase said visual flaws(not talking animation work, just art and texture junk here). If anything, they've been 3-d airbrushed.

So you see most comments coming from mouthy SJWs acting out what is essentially the modern day version of a witchhunt.

Big surprise.. :/

unless you have a pure white male cast sexually assaulting a bunch of supermodels you are going to have that bunch complaining

I've been saying it for a long freaking time. There's a nasty underbelly in gaming, and it doesn't take much to shine a light on it nowadays.

Yes, just show one side, that's not completely biased at all.

It's a reaction to the reactionary, like some of you here are doing right now. I don't believe it's the right type of reaction, but this faction of feminist has made many uncomfortable over the years and it's made some people a little paranoid.

Remember everyone. Game developers are protected by the sacred rules of free speech and must be allowed to say whatever they want and include whatever they want in games.

..Unless what they want is to show diverse characters, in which case that clearly isn't what they really want and they're just doing it because SJWs who don't even play games are telling them to.

RiseOfTheWhiteWolf:
Wait, what? Every trailer features a Ryder white enough to shoot up a school.

I suspect a lot of racists expect fictional characters to be "idealized" versions of real people rather than to actually look like real people, which in the case of a white person means their skin must glisten like fresh arctic snow and their hair must shine with the golden hue of sunlight reflecting from the Rhine.

To me, they look designed so that you could read them as either white or white-passing, which is a petty normal default for characters now.

Hawki:

RiseOfTheWhiteWolf:

Didn't Bioware say something about going out of there way to make sure all the characters in Andromeda had faults and what not? So they didn't end up being "unrealistically" beautiful? I think thats probably where the average Joe got that from. It looks like they designed all the faces around not triggering the tumblr crowd who cry about unrealistic beauty standards rather than what the engine can pull off in terms of animations.

I don't know, but if they did, the idea of having characters having flaws is generally considered to be good writing. As for physical appearances, that's comparatively minor. When people talk about why they like characters in fiction, it's usually because of personality traits. Physical appearance can add to one's appreciation of a character, but it's rarely at the core of it.

Haven't played Andromeda, so can't comment on animations directly though.

Oh no, I totally agree. In this case they were talking about visual flaws specifically, which I still don't mind. One of my favorite game series has the ugliest motherfucker ever as the protagonist, even if they did make him handsome in the third game for whatever reason. Its just that it looks like Bioware should have focused on the animations before they started giving characters slightly misshaped lips or mole heads which just stick out even more now that everyone looks and talks like a robot.

Disagreed on physical appearance being at the core though. Look at the absolute God in my avatar. Don't get me wrong, he's totally the true king of Westeros and clearly has the best personality in the entire series too, but his dashing good looks is what made me fall in love the second I saw him. What a man.

evilthecat:
I suspect a lot of racists expect fictional characters to be "idealized" versions of real people rather than to actually look like real people, which in the case of a white person means their skin must glisten like fresh arctic snow and their hair must shine with the golden hue of sunlight reflecting from the Rhine.

Thats ridiculous. Everyone knows me and my bretheren are the only true perfect aryans left, and we're not going to space before the jews are taken care of. Talk about unrealistic, do these people want Bioware to break everyones suspension of disbelief?

RiseOfTheWhiteWolf:
Thats ridiculous. Everyone knows me and my bretheren are the only true perfect aryans left, and we're not going to space before the jews are taken care of. Talk about unrealistic, do these people want Bioware to break everyones suspension of disbelief?

image

100% pure Teutonic warrior confirmed.

Yeah, it's pretty crazy.

I started a thread elsewhere making fun of all the wonky animations and to share our expectations for the game. It took about 5 posts for it to become an anti-SJW rant thread.

It's nice to see the gamergate/alt-right/anti-thinking groups are willing to take time out of their busy day of bunker building and food stamping to still troll someone for something they had little or nothing to do with.

Keep on posting, the more you do the less time you have to produce Nephew-Sons and Niece-Daughters.
;P

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