Injustice 2 really triggers my feminism. There, I said it.

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The depiction of female characters in Injustice 2 makes my angry, as the feminist I am.

There, I said it, finally!!

It feels like a huge step back to generic half-naked hot ladies with the same face and the same sexually provocative attitude.

I don't mind sexy female characters; but the cast of Injustice 2 is limiting all the female characters to that.

MKX: perfect female characters.

Injustice: perfect female characters.

Injustice 2: what the heck is this spine-bending bikini babe doing trying to seduce an alien robot? Why?

It gets even worse when I read certain comments of people who "appreciate that Netherrealms understood we want to look at the female form". Really, just find a trailer of a female character of Injustice 2 and prepare to cringe.

I dunno. It just really triggers me, to the point I don't want to play that game because it's using women as sex objects.

It becomes depressing when voicing this feeling I have just gets a horde of fanboys to insult me.

What doesn't.

I want to agree with you but then again I know jackshit about comics besides the animated shows I watched growing up. Thus, I don't know if they are being faithful to the female characters or not. Got any examples of bad female character designs?

This thread gives me flashbacks. Glorious flashbacks...

Maybe the audience for these games is juvenile enough for it to work. I dunno.

Well, the gear system leaves the half-naked part up to you, if that helps as all.

oRevanchisto:
I want to agree with you but then again I know jackshit about comics besides the animated shows I watched growing up. Thus, I don't know if they are being faithful to the female characters or not. Got any examples of bad female character designs?

You know, I appreciate that someone with a kinky avatar understood my point. I like not having to explain that sexy and sexist are different and unrelated things.

Now, about the examples.... It mostly is a general vibe I am feeling from the game as a whole. The choice of female characters, the way they dress compared to the male cast, that trailer about the female characters that felt a bit Dead Or Alive-ish, the very fact they made a trailer about characters with female gender, the sultry sexy quotes the female carattere say before the match, etc. etc.

I didn't feel that vibe in Mortal Kombat X or Injustice but I am really feeling it here and it's unpleasant.

McElroy:
This thread gives me flashbacks. Glorious flashbacks...

Maybe the audience for these games is juvenile enough for it to work. I dunno.

That pretty much seems to be the case. And the irony is that said audience is "praising" what the developers did, without realizing the devs are considering them as apes that cannot appreciate a female character if she's not also a sex fantasy.

Zhukov:
Well, the gear system leaves the half-naked part up to you, if that helps as all.

I am not sure. Can the gear system make it so Wonder Woman and Black Canary do not shove their butts in my face?

Nature Guardian:

oRevanchisto:
I want to agree with you but then again I know jackshit about comics besides the animated shows I watched growing up. Thus, I don't know if they are being faithful to the female characters or not. Got any examples of bad female character designs?

You know, I appreciate that someone with a kinky avatar understood my point. I like not having to explain that sexy and sexist are different and unrelated things.

Now, about the examples.... It mostly is a general vibe I am feeling from the game as a whole. The choice of female characters, the way they dress compared to the male cast, that trailer about the female characters that felt a bit Dead Or Alive-ish, the very fact they made a trailer about characters with female gender, the sultry sexy quotes the female carattere say before the match, etc. etc.

I didn't feel that vibe in Mortal Kombat X or Injustice but I am really feeling it here and it's unpleasant.

Hey, just because I appreciate sexy women in one context doesn't mean I approve of pure, blatant sexual exploitation in another. Context matters. I'll be honest I haven't paid too much attention to Injustice 2 but what I've seen so far hasn't triggered my senses yet. For example, neither Wonder Woman or Supergirl are dressed super proactively or making sexual puns as that wouldn't fit their character. But, for a character like Harley Quinn that would make complete sense. However, then I see a character like Starfire and I don't know what to think since my only point of reference of her character was the Teen Titans cartoons and this is clearly a more adult version of her character. So, I don't know what to think there.

When I asked for some examples I was talking more of a list of the specific characters who are problematic. The funny thing is I was more weirded out by the female design decisions in the recent Moral Kombat games. Like, Sonya should not have looked like she did.

It triggers me in that they turned the Joker into... what they turned him into.

Nature Guardian:
snip

Is this game even out yet?

If you don't like how the characters look, then don't play the game. It's that simple. There are a lot of things in popular culture that I don't like. I don't buy them. I just ignore them. It's amazing how stress-free you life will be when you stop getting "triggered" over stuff that you don't like.

I don't know what else to say. I know you try to present your preference as some kind of morally righteous stand. Please stop it. It is so played out. Most people see through this virtue signaling. Also, don't get me started on how insulting it is to co-op the word "trigger" when there are real people (most of them are soldiers who fought in combat) who actually suffer from PTSD. They are the ones who actually have to worry about getting triggered. Not somebody complaining about a video game.

oRevanchisto:

Nature Guardian:

oRevanchisto:
I want to agree with you but then again I know jackshit about comics besides the animated shows I watched growing up. Thus, I don't know if they are being faithful to the female characters or not. Got any examples of bad female character designs?

You know, I appreciate that someone with a kinky avatar understood my point. I like not having to explain that sexy and sexist are different and unrelated things.

Now, about the examples.... It mostly is a general vibe I am feeling from the game as a whole. The choice of female characters, the way they dress compared to the male cast, that trailer about the female characters that felt a bit Dead Or Alive-ish, the very fact they made a trailer about characters with female gender, the sultry sexy quotes the female carattere say before the match, etc. etc.

I didn't feel that vibe in Mortal Kombat X or Injustice but I am really feeling it here and it's unpleasant.

Hey, just because I appreciate sexy women in one context doesn't mean I approve of pure, blatant sexual exploitation in another. Context matters. I'll be honest I haven't paid too much attention to Injustice 2 but what I've seen so far hasn't triggered my senses yet. For example, neither Wonder Woman or Supergirl are dressed super proactively or making sexual puns as that wouldn't fit their character. But, for a character like Harley Quinn that would make complete sense. However, then I see a character like Starfire and I don't know what to think since my only point of reference of her character was the Teen Titans cartoons and this is clearly a more adult version of her character. So, I don't know what to think there.

When I asked for some examples I was talking more of a list of the specific characters who are problematic. The funny thing is I was more weirded out by the female design decisions in the recent Moral Kombat games. Like, Sonya should not have looked like she did.

Yeah, the problem is that I can't actually pinpoint an example and say "look, this is why it's sexist". And Supergirl looks great and Wonder Woman is in character.

Yet, how can I explain.... I feel that vibe. I know it's there. And the creepy comments you can find on character trailer videos seem to prove it.

Some games can be an endless parade of tits and ass and be awesome for me, other games may appear nonsexualised yet they bother me in their gender depictions.

In fact, I myself would like to understand why this game triggers me. But it does. Something's off......

Casual Shinji:
It triggers me in that they turned the Joker into... what they turned him into.

The game's general character design and character choices as a whole would need another thread......

The wording used in this OP is only going to trigger more people to react to it, like an internet domino effect. Can't tell if intentional or not.

If they changed it, wouldn't that be the devs caving in and changing something because a few people whined about it on the internet just because they didn't get it?

And we all know what a grievous sin that is, right?

Nature Guardian:

Yeah, the problem is that I can't actually pinpoint an example and say "look, this is why it's sexist". And Supergirl looks great and Wonder Woman is in character.

Yet, how can I explain.... I feel that vibe. I know it's there. And the creepy comments you can find on character trailer videos seem to prove it.

Some games can be an endless parade of tits and ass and be awesome for me, other games may appear nonsexualised yet they bother me in their gender depictions.

In fact, I myself would like to understand why this game triggers me. But it does. Something's off......

Fair enough, I haven't seen enough to come to a conclusion yet. So far, the characters that have appeared sexualized make sense within the context of their character (from what limited understanding I have of them of their respective comics). The second I see Supergirl posing all sexy with titty cleavage I'm gonna have to put my hands up. But, we'll see.

Do you understand how nature works, Nature Guardian? Most female humans have evolved to be sexually attractive to male humans. And most male humans have evolved to be sexually attracted to them. It's that way for a reason, to continue the species. Without it, we wouldn't be sitting here chatting.

Video games, like TV and other media, design things to attract buyers. One thing that sells is characters who are sexually attractive, for the reasons stated above. Duh.

Why is this suddenly not okay? Maybe it's because some females who don't look as attractive as those idealized forms are jealous? Must everyone in media be made less attractive so those people will feel more comfortable? Is that the goal? Get rid of all the pretty people? How about we all start wearing bags over our heads? There, no competition, everybody looks the same, nobody's uncomfortable.

Nature Guardian:

Zhukov:
Well, the gear system leaves the half-naked part up to you, if that helps as all.

I am not sure. Can the gear system make it so Wonder Woman and Black Canary do not shove their butts in my face?

If you are referring to butt-face-shoving animations of which I am unaware, then no.

If you just want to cover their sinful butts with clothing or armour or whatnot, then yes.

Kerg3927:
Do you understand how nature works, Nature Guardian? Most female humans have evolved to be sexually attractive to male humans. And most male humans have evolved to be sexually attracted to them. It's that way for a reason, to continue the species. Without it, we wouldn't be sitting here chatting.

Video games, like TV and other media, design things to attract buyers. One thing that sells is characters who are sexually attractive, for the reasons stated above. Duh.

Why is this suddenly not okay? Maybe it's because some females who don't look as attractive as those idealized forms are jealous? Must everyone in media be made less attractive so those people will feel more comfortable? Is that the goal? Get rid of all the pretty people? How about we all start wearing bags over our heads? There, no competition, everybody looks the same, nobody's uncomfortable.

Ugh, dude, you're not helping. Its one thing to have attractive characters in your game but its another to sexualize them needlessly. It goes back to the bikini chainmail. On its own that's not an issue if both genders get it, but it really stands out when on a male it suddenly turns into fullplate. Which mmo games are known to do. And don't get me started on those retarded high heels they keep sticking otherwise badass female characters in. The only time that ever worked was in Bayonetta.

Plus we tend to only get idealized forms for the males. At least in western media for the most part. You tend to see sexy as hell women and big hulking guys, both of those are targeted at males. If you wanted to make a guy who was targeted at females you would make them a bit more of a pretty boy, like Dante. The really weird thing is Japan of all places is much better at this sort of thing.

KissingSunlight:

Nature Guardian:
snip

Is this game even out yet?

If you don't like how the characters look, then don't play the game. It's that simple. There are a lot of things in popular culture that I don't like. I don't buy them. I just ignore them. It's amazing how stress-free you life will be when you stop getting "triggered" over stuff that you don't like.

I don't know what else to say. I know you try to present your preference as some kind of morally righteous stand. Please stop it. It is so played out. Most people see through this virtue signaling. Also, don't get me started on how insulting it is to co-op the word "trigger" when there are real people (most of them are soldiers who fought in combat) who actually suffer from PTSD. They are the ones who actually have to worry about getting triggered. Not somebody complaining about a video game.

Maybe they were looking forward to a game franchise they enjoy, and now they know they won't enjoy it because it has been affected by a bad, sexist design decisions?

It is funny how you complain about the abuse of the word "trigger" but then throw around terms like "virtue signalling", as though that would apply here in the slightest. It is also weird that you would complain about someone pretending their preferences are a morally righteous stance, when you then include a plight to those with PTSD whilst dismissing someone's opinion on videogames.

Kerg3927:
Do you understand how nature works, Nature Guardian? Most female humans have evolved to be sexually attractive to male humans. And most male humans have evolved to be sexually attracted to them. It's that way for a reason, to continue the species. Without it, we wouldn't be sitting here chatting.

Video games, like TV and other media, design things to attract buyers. One thing that sells is characters who are sexually attractive, for the reasons stated above. Duh.

Why is this suddenly not okay? Maybe it's because some females who don't look as attractive as those idealized forms are jealous? Must everyone in media be made less attractive so those people will feel more comfortable? Is that the goal? Get rid of all the pretty people? How about we all start wearing bags over our heads? There, no competition, everybody looks the same, nobody's uncomfortable.

Well, I thought everyone was clear on WHY sexism is bad, but anyway I'll try to recap.

1) Designing every character like they have to be sexually attractive is, in my opinion, stupid. A sexy character stands out much more when not everyone else is as hot as they are. But I concede that some people just want everyone to look perfect like a Barbie or a Ken. I just think it limits the possibilities. I don't need to fap to EVERY character design, thank you. Why, sometimes I may appreciate even a repulsive design because its entire point is being repulsive. Some other time, a character just can't be sexy (doesn't mean they have to be ugly) so they can fit their role.

2) Much more importantly, designing every FEMALE character like they have to be sexually attractive while the MALE characters can be anything sexy or not, well, that is the definition of sexism. Important note: this does NOT apply when a videogame's entire art style revolves about sexualization of the female (or male) form.

3) What you find sexy is not what someone else finds sexy. Some people are into fat women. Some people are into aged women. Some people find an unperfect face with a strong personality to be sexier than a perfect face with a boring seductress attitude. Some time, by designing a "non sexy" character you end up designing a sexy character. I think Roadhog is pretty hot and he's obese. If male characters had to always conform to a very limited standard of physical appearance, I couldn't fantasize about Roadhog.

4) Nobody in their right mind has anything against hot babes or hot guys. The issue is not with that.

Eh, what do you know, in the end I DID have to explain myself. It was too good to be true. :P I should save this up in a file and call it "explainingsexism.txt".

Zhukov:

Nature Guardian:

Zhukov:
Well, the gear system leaves the half-naked part up to you, if that helps as all.

I am not sure. Can the gear system make it so Wonder Woman and Black Canary do not shove their butts in my face?

If you are referring to butt-face-shoving animations of which I am unaware, then no.

If you just want to cover their sinful butts with clothing or armour or whatnot, then yes.

They can't show their sinful butts in my face if it's covered! Well, unless it's skin-tight pants.

.....it's skin-tight pants isn't it?

Fun story to understand how my mind works before someone thinks I'm a burka-wearing fanatic: I'm playing Drawn To Death and Ninjaw struts around with her butt literally naked. I had her wear clothes covering her butt. Then I found out there's also a male character, Alan, who struts around with his butt literally naked. So I put Ninjaw back to her butt-naked glory.

Can someone post some pictures? ...just for... academic purposes.

Not sure if OP is trying to rustle some jimmies...

Nature Guardian:
Well, I thought everyone was clear on WHY sexism is bad, but anyway I'll try to recap.

1) Designing every character like they have to be sexually attractive is, in my opinion, stupid. A sexy character stands out much more when not everyone else is as hot as they are. But I concede that some people just want everyone to look perfect like a Barbie or a Ken. I just think it limits the possibilities. I don't need to fap to EVERY character design, thank you. Why, sometimes I may appreciate even a repulsive design because its entire point is being repulsive. Some other time, a character just can't be sexy (doesn't mean they have to be ugly) so they can fit their role.

I agree that variety is best. I just don't want us to get to a point where sexy supermodel type characters who flaunt it are not "allowed," which is I think a goal of some feminists (maybe not you). The fact is, in real life, women who have assets tend to use them, and why not? I don't want every developer to go the direction of Bioware, making conscious decisions to design characters to be less attractive in order to fit an agenda.

Nature Guardian:
2) Much more importantly, designing every FEMALE character like they have to be sexually attractive while the MALE characters can be anything sexy or not, well, that is the definition of sexism. Important note: this does NOT apply when a videogame's entire art style revolves about sexualization of the female (or male) form.

In my experience, games that have idealized female forms also tend to have idealized male forms as well.

Nature Guardian:
3) What you find sexy is not what someone else finds sexy. Some people are into fat women. Some people are into aged women. Some people find an unperfect face with a strong personality to be sexier than a perfect face with a boring seductress attitude. Some time, by designing a "non sexy" character you end up designing a sexy character. I think Roadhog is pretty hot and he's obese. If male characters had to always conform to a very limited standard of physical appearance, I couldn't fantasize about Roadhog.

Can't please everyone. So I have zero problem if a dev's want to design the majority of their characters to appeal to what the majority finds attractive. Some people do have a problem with it, and think every opinion must be equally represented. Not the way the world generally works. If you have a minority opinion, you should learn to expect and be satisfied with a minority representation in media to match. Or maybe look for a niche game that is designed to appeal to your niche.

Nature Guardian:
4) Nobody in their right mind has anything against hot babes or hot guys. The issue is not with that.

Good. :) Hot babes are a wonderful thing.

I think 'not sure if... ' mostly sums up my response to the OP. I'd say almost all of those listed games' female characters look cringe-worthy (male and female, though the latter character models look worse), but hey, if some people dig that and there's a market for it, fair enough.

Kerg3927:
Do you understand how nature works, Nature Guardian? Most female humans have evolved to be sexually attractive to male humans. And most male humans have evolved to be sexually attracted to them. It's that way for a reason, to continue the species. Without it, we wouldn't be sitting here chatting.

Video games, like TV and other media, design things to attract buyers. One thing that sells is characters who are sexually attractive, for the reasons stated above. Duh.

Why is this suddenly not okay? Maybe it's because some females who don't look as attractive as those idealized forms are jealous? Must everyone in media be made less attractive so those people will feel more comfortable? Is that the goal? Get rid of all the pretty people? How about we all start wearing bags over our heads? There, no competition, everybody looks the same, nobody's uncomfortable.

Are you actually being serious? Because I can't tell anymore... You seem to be suggesting that there is one - rather specific, contemporary, quasi-fetishistic - body standard and beauty norm which we've all evolved into being attracted to. As if our species would blink out if objectified female superhero outfits suddenly vanished...

(Newsflash: life would continue just fine)

image

Why do all the men have to be perfect bodybuilders too. This sexualization of men is bullshit. All these characters are, are walking avatars of perfect sexual specimen and frankly I find it ridiculous.

Someone get this guy a shirt. Preferably one that is too big for him so his perfect pecks stop winking at me.

Kerg3927:

Nature Guardian:
Well, I thought everyone was clear on WHY sexism is bad, but anyway I'll try to recap.

1) Designing every character like they have to be sexually attractive is, in my opinion, stupid. A sexy character stands out much more when not everyone else is as hot as they are. But I concede that some people just want everyone to look perfect like a Barbie or a Ken. I just think it limits the possibilities. I don't need to fap to EVERY character design, thank you. Why, sometimes I may appreciate even a repulsive design because its entire point is being repulsive. Some other time, a character just can't be sexy (doesn't mean they have to be ugly) so they can fit their role.

I agree that variety is best. I just don't want us to get to a point where sexy supermodel type characters who flaunt it are not "allowed," which is I think a goal of some feminists (maybe not you). The fact is, in real life, women who have assets tend to use them, and why not? I don't want every developer to go the direction of Bioware, making conscious decisions to design characters to be less attractive in order to fit an agenda.

It's not true. Plenty of women have what you call "assets" but do not want to overly flaunt them. Conversely, there's also unattractive women who still can't wait to show their "assets".

Choosing to "show your assets" is anyone's decision and no, it has not so much to do with wether you're actually hot or not, and a lot to do with your mindset and personal wishes.

So yeah, in real life, there's plenty of attractive women who don't wear in high heels and miniskirts. And viceversa.

I'm not going to deny someone somewhere has the goal to remove sexy female characters. Oh, I'm sure there's people like that who call themselves "feminists".
But I would hope you do not think those people can actually ever achieve their crazy goal.

What we might achieve is what the big majority of feminists actually want - equality and respect.

Nature Guardian:
2) Much more importantly, designing every FEMALE character like they have to be sexually attractive while the MALE characters can be anything sexy or not, well, that is the definition of sexism. Important note: this does NOT apply when a videogame's entire art style revolves about sexualization of the female (or male) form.

In my experience, games that have idealized female forms also tend to have idealized male forms as well.

[/quote]

Really? I wish my experience was the same as yours then.

Nature Guardian:
3) What you find sexy is not what someone else finds sexy. Some people are into fat women. Some people are into aged women. Some people find an unperfect face with a strong personality to be sexier than a perfect face with a boring seductress attitude. Some time, by designing a "non sexy" character you end up designing a sexy character. I think Roadhog is pretty hot and he's obese. If male characters had to always conform to a very limited standard of physical appearance, I couldn't fantasize about Roadhog.

Can't please everyone. So I have zero problem if a dev's want to design the majority of their characters to appeal to what the majority finds attractive. Some people do have a problem with it, and think every opinion must be equally represented. Not the way the world generally works. If you have a minority opinion, you should learn to expect and be satisfied with a minority representation in media to match. Or maybe look for a niche game that is designed to appeal to your niche.

[/quote]

Ok, this right here, THIS is where I have a problem with you now.

"Your opinion is not the same as mine, so your opinion is by definition an irrelevant minority".

You know, change happens. Society evolves. During black people slavery, someone certainly said that the opinion that black people should be equal to white people was.... the opinion of a minority, who should learn to shut up and not expect much.

Nature Guardian:
4) Nobody in their right mind has anything against hot babes or hot guys. The issue is not with that.

Good. :) Hot babes are a wonderful thing.[/quote]

Ditto.

Xsjadoblayde:
The wording used in this OP is only going to trigger more people to react to it, like an internet domino effect. Can't tell if intentional or not.

most likely looking for an argument, i'm sure someone will oblige'em

me, i'm getting too old for this s#%*

Darth Rosenberg:
Are you actually being serious? Because I can't tell anymore... You seem to be suggesting that there is one - rather specific, contemporary, quasi-fetishistic - body standard and beauty norm which we've all evolved into being attracted to. As if our species would blink out if objectified female superhero outfits suddenly vanished...

(Newsflash: life would continue just fine)

No, I'm just saying that sex sells. And there is a general type of female form that is found attractive by the majority of (not all) gamers, i.e. heterosexual males. And if a developer wants to design a game so that it appeals to the largest part of the market, they shouldn't be demonized for that. It makes perfect business sense to me, and they are after all trying to make a profit.

zellosoli:

Xsjadoblayde:
The wording used in this OP is only going to trigger more people to react to it, like an internet domino effect. Can't tell if intentional or not.

most likely looking for an argument, i'm sure someone will oblige'em

me, i'm getting too old for this s#%*

I'm looking for a discussion about what's wrong with Injustice 2's roster and why it rustles my jimmies so much and what happened and why the devs did whatever they did.

It's apparently turning into a general discussion about equal representation in media, which is fine, but I guess in that case I should've chosen a videogame with much muuuuch more blatant sexism, like Smite or Paladins.

Anyway yes, discussing these matters IS going to heat up the field but I'm confident we can discuss without degenerating.
If we can't, well, I guess that means it's not a welcome topic here and I'll avoid it. But let's try!

Kerg3927:

Darth Rosenberg:
Are you actually being serious? Because I can't tell anymore... You seem to be suggesting that there is one - rather specific, contemporary, quasi-fetishistic - body standard and beauty norm which we've all evolved into being attracted to. As if our species would blink out if objectified female superhero outfits suddenly vanished...

(Newsflash: life would continue just fine)

No, I'm just saying that sex sells. And there is a general type of female form that is found attractive by the majority of (not all) gamers, i.e. heterosexual males. And if a developer wants to design a game so that it appeals to the largest part of the market, they shouldn't be demonized for that. It makes perfect business sense to me, and they are after all trying to make a profit.

And it just so happens you belong to what YOU call "the majority of the market". What a perfect coincidence.

Kerg3927:
which is I think a goal of some feminists (maybe not you).

It might help if, rather than going off of what you "think", you actually go out and, you know, talk to "some feminists".

I tend to not actually agree with much of what OP of this thread says for various reasons, but having had actual interactions with many feminists who happen to also like video games, none of them want to remove sexy women from video games. The problem is that for the longest time, "sexy women" has been the one and only option. Diversity is good, there's no need to be afraid of it.

In my experience, games that have idealized female forms also tend to have idealized male forms as well.

Funny that, "idealized male forms" tend to be... power fantasies for other males.

Now, you can argue that Johnny Cage is a sexy hunk of manmeat for ladies to feast upon if you really want, but he wasn't actually designed with that in mind. He was designed to be the idealized form of a Hollywood action star, who are generally used to appeal to men who want to see stuff blow up rather than women who want to see studly men blowing things up. The latter tends to just be a side-effect of the initial intention.

I dunno, while I think the character designs (especially the faces) are looking a little... wonky, I don't see anything that's too egregious in them. Certainly nothing as bad as Starfire in Red Hood and the Outlaws (which for the record is a pretty damn good book). Supergirl and Wonder Woman are well covered and accurately represented. Cat Woman is wearing her skin tight suit which is her classic design, and Ivy is wearing very little but that's par for the course for her in many representation of the character. I mean, the woman is a succubus who charms people into doing her bidding- the outfit fits her MO.

And we are talking about super heroes and villains here. Obviously everything is going to be exaggerated- and that goes for everyone. All the guys are wearing skin tight clothing over rippled abs and the ladies have nice butts. If these was some original IP that was focused on story and character I can understand being a little upset with over sexualizing some characters, but this is a 2D fighter about comic book characters. You have every right to feel as you do but I think you might be making a mountain out of a mole hill.

shrekfan246:

Funny that, "idealized male forms" tend to be... power fantasies for other males.

Now, you can argue that Johnny Cage is a sexy hunk of manmeat for ladies to feast upon if you really want, but he wasn't actually designed with that in mind. He was designed to be the idealized form of a Hollywood action star, who are generally used to appeal to men who want to see stuff blow up rather than women who want to see studly men blowing things up. The latter tends to just be a side-effect of the initial intention.

Genuine questions here- not trying to stir the pot at all:

What exactly is the problem with hunky dudes being a male power fantasy? I understand I'm painting in broad strokes but I don't think it's too far from the truth to say that at least a large portion of the female population is interested in men who are in good shape. Maybe tastes differ quite a bit from that on this website which attracts a lot of anime and video games fans, but big muscles and cut body are always something I've associated with male attractiveness. If the women get some titillation why is it a problem if the men enjoy the character designs as well? And full disclosure, this is coming from a guy who spends 5-6 days a week in the gym, but also someone who considers himself to be a feminist and is dating a girl with a Women & Gender studies degree who teaches sex ed and gender issues. If we're both ogling Chris Pratt's abs because she wants to lick them and I want to have them, what's the problem?

shrekfan246:

Kerg3927:
which is I think a goal of some feminists (maybe not you).

It might help if, rather than going off of what you "think", you actually go out and, you know, talk to "some feminists".

I tend to not actually agree with much of what OP of this thread says for various reasons, but having had actual interactions with many feminists who happen to also like video games, none of them want to remove sexy women from video games. The problem is that for the longest time, "sexy women" has been the one and only option. Diversity is good, there's no need to be afraid of it.

In my experience, games that have idealized female forms also tend to have idealized male forms as well.

Funny that, "idealized male forms" tend to be... power fantasies for other males.

Now, you can argue that Johnny Cage is a sexy hunk of manmeat for ladies to feast upon if you really want, but he wasn't actually designed with that in mind. He was designed to be the idealized form of a Hollywood action star, who are generally used to appeal to men who want to see stuff blow up rather than women who want to see studly men blowing things up. The latter tends to just be a side-effect of the initial intention.

To add on. It should be noted that male characters are rarely sexualized and I hate when idiots try to bring this up as a counter point. Yes, males are often perfect physical specimens but sexualization goes beyond mere physical attributes. Aquaman is ripped as hell and doesn't understand the concepts of shirts, but he doesn't sexualize this, he isn't flaunting his figure in your face. Imagine a male character shaking their ass to the camera, shoving their crotches in your face, grabbing their crotches, and every word that comes out of their mouth is some kind of dick joke. You'd probably say, "woah, get your junk out of my face. I don't need to see all that." That is the difference.

Supergirl looks like a perfect physical specimen but she isn't trying to flaunt her tits and ass in your face. That's a key difference between someone like her and a sexualized character like Harley Quinn.

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