Nintendo Switch has sold 4.7 Million units to date.

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Phoenixmgs:
When you go and compare ALL of Sony in new IP output to ALL of Nintendo, Nintendo gets thoroughly trounced.

it does? pretty sure there's a hell of a lot more Nintendo 1st party IP's than there are Sony 1st Party IP's.

Phoenixmgs:
Zelda vs Horizon.

Which one of the games was the new IP and which was a series from the 80s?

Well if we're comparing ALL of Nintendo vs ALL of Sony, why does that even matter?

if you want something that's not from the 80's though and more recent, then ARMS is actually a newer IP than Horizon is so Nintendo win's again there too.

oh wait i forgot, it doesn't count if you aren't interested in it and don't like the Nintendo IP now though does it?

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Yoshi178:

Phoenixmgs:
When you go and compare ALL of Sony in new IP output to ALL of Nintendo, Nintendo gets thoroughly trounced.

it does? pretty sure there's a hell of a lot more Nintendo 1st party IP's than there are Sony 1st Party IP's.

That's an alternate fact.

Phoenixmgs:

Addendum_Forthcoming:
well beyond PS4 having more games...

It's always about the games, PS4 has by far the most console exclusives whether Sony is developing (Horizon), publishing (Bloodborne), or the 3rd-party dev just choose the PS4 as the console to release their game on (Persona 5). Most gamers don't have time to play a full-on game on the go, most gamers are adults with jobs and kids.

Really?

you actually expect parents of kids to go for things like Horizon and especially Bloodborne in particular, rather than something like Mario which not only has kid friendly content, but has local multiplayer in games like Mario Kart and Mario Odyssey which let's the Parent actually play the game with their kid at the same time as well?

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Phoenixmgs:

Yoshi178:

Phoenixmgs:
When you go and compare ALL of Sony in new IP output to ALL of Nintendo, Nintendo gets thoroughly trounced.

it does? pretty sure there's a hell of a lot more Nintendo 1st party IP's than there are Sony 1st Party IP's.

That's an alternate fact.

hey you're the one wanting to compare ALL of Nintendo's IP's against ALL of Sony's IP's.

of course if Sony's 1st Party developers like Naughty dog have literally hardly ever made IP's in the first bloody place, it will FEEL like Naughty Dog is releasing alot of new IP's as soon as they go from having 2 total IP's, to a total of having 4 IP's under their belt because they suddenly released 2 more IP's on one platform.

doesn't change the fact that at the end of the day though, Naughty Dog has released bugger all IP's as in they've only ever released 4 total IP's in the first place...

Yoshi178:

it does? pretty sure there's a hell of a lot more Nintendo 1st party IP's than there are Sony 1st Party IP's.

Maybe, but I did a count on Wikipedia, Sony has more IPs than Nintendo if we count exclusive titles (it's something like 48 for Nintendo and 71 for Sony.

Yoshi178:

if you want something that's not from the 80's though and more recent, then ARMS is actually a newer IP than Horizon is so Nintendo win's again there too.

oh wait i forgot, it doesn't count if you aren't interested in it and don't like the Nintendo IP now though does it?

...is ANYONE interested in ARMS?

People are still talking about Horizon. People are still talking about Splatoon. ARMS seems to have been just a blip.

Yoshi178:

doesn't change the fact that at the end of the day though, Naughty Dog has released bugger all IP's as in they've only ever released 4 total IP's in the first place...

Franchises, not IPs.

If ARMS counts as an IP with a single entry, Naughty Dog technically has developed 10 IPs. Course only four of them are talked about though.

Anyway, the whole Naughty Dog vs. Nintendo thing is silly since you're comparing a single developer with a mammoth publisher.

Hawki:

Yoshi178:

if you want something that's not from the 80's though and more recent, then ARMS is actually a newer IP than Horizon is so Nintendo win's again there too.

oh wait i forgot, it doesn't count if you aren't interested in it and don't like the Nintendo IP now though does it?

...is ANYONE interested in ARMS?

People are still talking about Horizon. People are still talking about Splatoon. ARMS seems to have been just a blip.

again. just because you're not interested in it doesn't mean it doesn't count as a new IP. i couldn't give any less of a shit about Horizon the same way you and Phoenix don't give a shit about ARMS.

if ARMS doesn't count as a new IP, then neither should Horizon.

Hawki:

Yoshi178:

doesn't change the fact that at the end of the day though, Naughty Dog has released bugger all IP's as in they've only ever released 4 total IP's in the first place...

Franchises, not IPs.

If ARMS counts as an IP with a single entry, Naughty Dog technically has developed 10 IPs. Course only four of them are talked about though.

Anyway, the whole Naughty Dog vs. Nintendo thing is silly since you're comparing a single developer with a mammoth publisher.

i just looked at Wikipedia's list of videogames made by Naughty Dog as well. and if Phoenix didn't want to do just the whole Nintendo vs Sony thing, then you would be correct, Naughty Dog has made a total of 10 IP's according to this list

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Naughty_Dog_video_games

HOWEVER! Phoenix is wanting to compare 1st Party Nintendo IP's with 1st Party Sony IP's, and literally the first 6 titles out of the 10 IP's on this list, Naughty Dog made when they weren't a 1st Party Sony Developer. things like Math Jam and Ski Crazed were made for Apple Computers when Naughty Dog was still a 3rd Party and Dream Zone was on DOS FFS!

and Horizon and TLOU only have 1 entry each so far as well. so if those count as New IP's then so should ARMS

Yoshi178:

again. just because you're not interested in it doesn't mean it doesn't count as a new IP. i couldn't give any less of a shit about Horizon the same way you and Phoenix don't give a shit about ARMS.

if ARMS doesn't count as a new IP, then neither should Horizon.

Plus ARMS had sold over a million units by the end of June, meaning it's clear that it was a success.

http://www.ign.com/articles/2017/07/26/nintendo-switch-sells-47-million-units-arms-and-mario-kart-sell-strongly

I fully expect another moving of the goal post any moment now.

So are we still talking about how Nintendo sucks and everyone else (not Microsoft) is great?

I don't quite get what you are all still on about.

Fact is, Nintendo Switch has sold 5 million units and is a financial success for Nintendo. However, there is not enough evidence to suggest that the Switch will be a gaming success.

Remember the original Wii sold a fucking shit load of units. Millions and millions of units. But the system itself was a gaming failure, in proof that the Wii had a mere 10% attach rate. This means that only 10% of Wii owners ever bought an extra game for the system.

The Wii U was a failure of a system due to the complete lack of 3rd party support. The fact is that Nintendo consoles CANNOT survive in a world with ONLY Nintendo games on them. Yet Nintendo has a decades long history now of alienating 3rd party developers by creating consoles that rely on gimmicks and are drastically underpowered compared to what everyone else is doing.

Look at it from a developer stand point. If you are trying to put together a modern game, you can easily put that game on Ps4, Xbox, and PC. However it would require lots of extra work, and system downgrades to put that same game on the Switch. Developers and publishers are NOT going to do that. And that has consistantly been Nintendo's mistake is that they don't allow developers to make games, they force developers to make Nintendo games SPECIFICALLY. If they do not make the game for the Wii, Wii U, or Switch from the ground up, they CANNOT port a PS4 game directly over to a Nintendo console.

Keep in mind I am talking about PS4 games specifically. Games that run on the Vita, and PS3 are fair game for ports because that's where the Switch's power becomes comparable. So those ports of Disgaea and Fate//Extella, etc don't count as PS4 ports.

Yoshi178:

Phoenixmgs:

Yoshi178:

it does? pretty sure there's a hell of a lot more Nintendo 1st party IP's than there are Sony 1st Party IP's.

That's an alternate fact.

hey you're the one wanting to compare ALL of Nintendo's IP's against ALL of Sony's IP's.

of course if Sony's 1st Party developers like Naughty dog have literally hardly ever made IP's in the first bloody place, it will FEEL like Naughty Dog is releasing alot of new IP's as soon as they go from having 2 total IP's, to a total of having 4 IP's under their belt because they suddenly released 2 more IP's on one platform.

doesn't change the fact that at the end of the day though, Naughty Dog has released bugger all IP's as in they've only ever released 4 total IP's in the first place...

PS1 vs N64: Sony made more new IPs
PS2 vs GC: Sony made more new IPs
PS3 vs Wii: Sony made more new IPs
PS4 vs WiiU: Sony made more new IPs
PS5 vs Switch: Nintendo by default since PS5 doesn't exist yet

Is that easy enough for you to understand?

CritialGaming:
So are we still talking about how Nintendo sucks and everyone else (not Microsoft) is great?

I don't quite get what you are all still on about.

Fact is, Nintendo Switch has sold 5 million units and is a financial success for Nintendo. However, there is not enough evidence to suggest that the Switch will be a gaming success.

Remember the original Wii sold a fucking shit load of units. Millions and millions of units. But the system itself was a gaming failure, in proof that the Wii had a mere 10% attach rate. This means that only 10% of Wii owners ever bought an extra game for the system.

The Wii U was a failure of a system due to the complete lack of 3rd party support. The fact is that Nintendo consoles CANNOT survive in a world with ONLY Nintendo games on them. Yet Nintendo has a decades long history now of alienating 3rd party developers by creating consoles that rely on gimmicks and are drastically underpowered compared to what everyone else is doing.

Look at it from a developer stand point. If you are trying to put together a modern game, you can easily put that game on Ps4, Xbox, and PC. However it would require lots of extra work, and system downgrades to put that same game on the Switch. Developers and publishers are NOT going to do that. And that has consistantly been Nintendo's mistake is that they don't allow developers to make games, they force developers to make Nintendo games SPECIFICALLY. If they do not make the game for the Wii, Wii U, or Switch from the ground up, they CANNOT port a PS4 game directly over to a Nintendo console.

Keep in mind I am talking about PS4 games specifically. Games that run on the Vita, and PS3 are fair game for ports because that's where the Switch's power becomes comparable. So those ports of Disgaea and Fate//Extella, etc don't count as PS4 ports.

Yoshi doesn't understand this simple logic. Even DS ports like the Zero Escape series are on PS4 and not Nintendo consoles.

Phoenixmgs:

PS1 vs N64: Sony made more new IPs
PS2 vs GC: Sony made more new IPs
PS3 vs Wii: Sony made more new IPs
PS4 vs WiiU: Sony made more new IPs
PS5 vs Switch: Nintendo by default since PS5 doesn't exist yet

Is that easy enough for you to understand?

Yoshi doesn't understand this simple logic. Even DS ports like the Zero Escape series are on PS4 and not Nintendo consoles.

Well what I see is a discussion about who has more exclusive IP's and I don't think that is an entirely valid argument because exclusives only help a console so much.

The Wii U had amazing exclusives. Absolutely amazing. But the system still failed...why?

The simple answer is exclusives help in the decision when it comes to someone buying a console, so long as the promise of multiplatform games remains. If games like Madden, Call of Duty, Destiny, and any number of AAA games are important to you, then it doesn't matter which console you get, and you're likely to lean towards which console has better exclusives for you. If you are a Halo, Gears and Forza fan, then you probably want an Xbox. But if things like JRPG's, Horizon, Yakuza, and the like are interesting to you, then obviously PS4 is your consoles.

But what about the player that wants Madden, Call of Duty, and Destiny, but is also really into Mario and Zelda? You'd say that they should get a Switch right? Except they can't because those 3rd party games are not coming to the Switch, and as a result Nintendo hurts themselves. A console does not do well be ONLY a Nintendo machine. Nintendo doesn't fucking understand that, and they've done NOTHING to fix that fact in the last 25 years.

That's not to say Nintendo is a failure either. Clearly they are perfectly happy only making a base amount of money off their investment. They seem to thrive on limited production leading to hype and panic in buying their products. I wonder how many Switches would have sold if they weren't in such short supply. If they were easily and readily available everywhere, whould people have bought them ASAP like they did? Or would more people have waited to see what else the system would have to offer before diving in on buying one?

THAT is the real question.

I'm just passing by for a second to see if Yoshi is still fighting with everyone else...

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CritialGaming:

Phoenixmgs:

PS1 vs N64: Sony made more new IPs
PS2 vs GC: Sony made more new IPs
PS3 vs Wii: Sony made more new IPs
PS4 vs WiiU: Sony made more new IPs
PS5 vs Switch: Nintendo by default since PS5 doesn't exist yet

Is that easy enough for you to understand?

Yoshi doesn't understand this simple logic. Even DS ports like the Zero Escape series are on PS4 and not Nintendo consoles.

Well what I see is a discussion about who has more exclusive IP's and I don't think that is an entirely valid argument because exclusives only help a console so much.

The Wii U had amazing exclusives. Absolutely amazing. But the system still failed...why?

The simple answer is exclusives help in the decision when it comes to someone buying a console, so long as the promise of multiplatform games remains. If games like Madden, Call of Duty, Destiny, and any number of AAA games are important to you, then it doesn't matter which console you get, and you're likely to lean towards which console has better exclusives for you. If you are a Halo, Gears and Forza fan, then you probably want an Xbox. But if things like JRPG's, Horizon, Yakuza, and the like are interesting to you, then obviously PS4 is your consoles.

But what about the player that wants Madden, Call of Duty, and Destiny, but is also really into Mario and Zelda? You'd say that they should get a Switch right? Except they can't because those 3rd party games are not coming to the Switch, and as a result Nintendo hurts themselves. A console does not do well be ONLY a Nintendo machine. Nintendo doesn't fucking understand that, and they've done NOTHING to fix that fact in the last 25 years.

That's not to say Nintendo is a failure either. Clearly they are perfectly happy only making a base amount of money off their investment. They seem to thrive on limited production leading to hype and panic in buying their products. I wonder how many Switches would have sold if they weren't in such short supply. If they were easily and readily available everywhere, whould people have bought them ASAP like they did? Or would more people have waited to see what else the system would have to offer before diving in on buying one?

THAT is the real question.

I totally agree. I want to play Bayo 2 and Wonderful 101 but are 2 games worth it to buy a console for? I'd probably check out Zelda if I had a WiiU, not sure I'd like it personally. The PS4 already has 2 Sony developed exclusives that I absolutely loved (The Last Guardian and Horizon). I'm not the biggest fan of most Sony franchises like Uncharted, Killzone, or God of War but when Sony is putting out many more games (along with new IPs) than Nintendo, chances are I will like more Sony games overall even if I were to like a greater % of Nintendo's output. And just the range of variety Sony puts out is amazing like the only MLB game is made by Sony along with AAA quality adventure games like Until Dawn and Detroit. Thus, IMO, Sony actually beats Nintendo at their own game (making 1st-party games) along with the fact that the PS4 is getting basically every single 3rd-party game released. You can obviously play huge franchises like COD, GTA, Madden, etc. on PS4 along with stuff like Danganrompa, Shadow Tactics, and the Zero Escape series.

No COD. No Madden. No GTA. yeah i can live with that. (ESPECIALLY without bloody GTA XD)

Switch exclusive

also Switch exclusive.

You guys remember Super Meat Boy don't you? the same platforming Indie game Sony fans used to brag about having on the PS3 all the time and how they used to mock Wii owners for not getting it? Well not only did Wii U end up getting the original eventually anyway, but now we're also getting the sequel exclusively too. :)

CaitSeith:
I'm just passing by for a second to see if Yoshi is still fighting with everyone else...

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Hey Phoenix! you should feel honored, apparently you count as "everyone else" now. :)

Yoshi178:

Switch exclusive

No, it's not.

Yoshi178:

You guys remember Super Meat Boy don't you? the same platforming Indie game Sony fans used to brag about having on the PS3 all the time and how they used to mock Wii owners for not getting it? Well not only did Wii U end up getting the original eventually anyway, but now we're also getting the sequel exclusively too. :)

It's not exclusive. It's literally coming to everything. https://www.engadget.com/2017/08/30/nintendo-switch-super-meat-boy-forever-sequel-2018-release/ "Super Meat Boy Forever, the sequel to successful twitch platformer Super Meat Boy, will hit Nintendo Switch, PlayStation 4, Xbox One, PC, iOS and Android with a squishy, bloody splat in 2018."

Also didn't we establish that Indie games are exempt from this discussion because they port easily due to not requiring the same power of a AAA modern release?

Yoshi178:
You guys remember Super Meat Boy don't you? the same platforming Indie game Sony fans used to brag about having on the PS3 all the time and how they used to mock Wii owners for not getting it?

I can brag about well over 90% of games being on a PS system and not being on a Nintendo system. How was Super Meat Boy any different than GTA or Dishonored or Persona or Fallout or [insert the over 90% games Nintendo systems don't get]?

CaitSeith:
I'm just passing by for a second to see if Yoshi is still fighting with everyone else...

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Escapist should just give him a column, he already provides amusing daily content for free.

My goodness. Imagine thinking that getting the new Super Meat Boy as an exclusive was something to brag about and then finding out that isn't even accurate? Fuck yeah Nintendo.

This thread is too much.

EDIT: still, a new No More Heroes is kind of exciting, at least for me. Though it should be noted that the first was eventually ported to PS3 AND 360. It didn't translate especially well because of the game's rather decent use of the Wii's motion controls but that won't really be a problem this generation, so who knows. I imagine this will also get ported, but probably not for a good while.

CritialGaming:

Fact is, Nintendo Switch has sold 5 million units and is a financial success for Nintendo. However, there is not enough evidence to suggest that the Switch will be a gaming success.

Over 5 million at the end of July. Projections are 16 million by end of first quarter 2018. As for the rest of your post, Nintendo has made losses on consoles where it has trieed to simply compete with whatever Sony and Microsoft are doing. Precisely because Sony and Microsoft aren't doing themselves very many favours. Only now making s profit on their PS4... and for Microsoft? Best not to yhink anout it. Nintendo being Nintendo makes them more money. The Switch is the best portable gaming unit on the market. Balancing power, weight and portability at a price point that is acceptable.

But that's not sll that Nintendo has going for it...

They have fans, they mske phenomenal gaming content, and while people can pretend Nintendo is some evil, manipulative corporation.... news flash, it's nothing compared to other AAA developers.

There is a reason why Nintendo makes limited supply. Because they didn't know the Switch was going to do so well. They didn't want to pull a Microsoft making tens of millions of consoles that are still sitting in a warehoise fast reaching their inability to be sold at all due to the life expectancy of the computer parts themselves.

Nintenfo is the biggest name in gaming as a whole, but it cannot afford to make the mistakes Microsoft and Sony do on a daily basis. It needs to experiment, but it needs to be realistic. It needs marketing, but its budget requires it be often social engineering and word of mouth rather than billboards anf constant youtube of tv advert campaigns.

Frankly the argument of 'manufactured scarcity' is simply people not realizing Nintendo can't just have product sitting around, unsold. You want to talk about manufactured scarcity? Try cut content like MGSV:TPP's whole second chapter. Held to ransom for only preorder customers or as DLC...

It simply happens less with Nintendo games. I've yet to hear why the Switch id a bad console ... especially if you already have a good gaming rig.

See ... while you can point at the PS4 for cash-strapped gamers, putting it into perspective that's precisely why Sony's PS4 is so financially crippling. So much so it takes almost half a decade to make profits on machines.

A cash strapped gamer will pick up a PS4. They'll buy a handful of games each year, likely on special. Or purchasing trade in copies most likely. But if Sony was until recently making a loss on every console rewuiring licencing fees to make a profit, where is the money in those cash strapped gamers?

Those cash strspped gamers may even be costing Sony's Playstation department. You ever wonder why Nintendo isn't anywhere near as obnoxious about second hand games, or not wanting to push things like Netflix subscription services, or not telling developers to reel in the ridiculous fucking 'preorder culture' with 'Definitive' editions riddled withheld content that obvioudly belonged in the original game ... sold the same day as regular edition copies.

If Nintendo can avoif that culture, it may even be a better console for cash strapped gamers nog wanting to be treated like garbage as well.

And, oh yesh. Deus Ex: Human Revolution was best on the WiiU precisely for that reason.

I'm gonna open an art gallery of people being monumentally wrong on the internet.

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The title of this piece is "I Don't Know What I'm Talking About". The author, you can see from the wording, is an adherent to the fanboyism movement. Notice the makeshift emoji at the end - an attempt at sarcasm - and the initial leading rhetoric that is, alas, paving the road to failure. What a piece.
Bidding starts at $20.

Addendum_Forthcoming:
I've yet to hear why the Switch id a bad console ...

From a hardware point of view? Screen-scratching, lousy Joy-Con reception, poor placement of USB charger, needlessly messy chat headset, shitty battery life, a "fuck you" dead pixel policy... and I'm not listing these for you to explain to me one by one how 1) they don't bother you or 2) they shouldn't bother anybody. These are problems. Many consumers face them. Nobody wants them.

Johnny Novgorod:

From a hardware point of view? Screen-scratching, lousy Joy-Con reception, poor placement of USB charger, needlessly messy chat headset, shitty battery life, a "fuck you" dead pixel policy... and I'm not listing these for you to explain to me one by one how 1) they don't bother you or 2) they shouldn't bother anybody. These are problems. Many consumers face them. Nobody wants them.

Those are problems. Also ones I don't really suffer. Also because I'm an Australian and the ACCC protects me from one of them (actually all of them). I would list the other console problems being a hundredth the power of my pc that I can get 99% of the same games on with similar portability (i.e. none).

Also... shitty battery life? For starters, tell me what you want? You have a portable device running the hardware it is that actually has to feel good in the hand. The Switch battery life is better than the PS Vita which doesn't run anywhere near the same hardware. There's limits that constrain themselves to fucking physics and chemistry. Also, hint... you can buy USB chargers. I would rather my Switch last 3.5 ish hours and necessitate me bringing a USB charger given I planned to run it for more than 3 hours undocked .... than it feeling like it weighs well-over half a kilo and causes me arm strain to play it after 20 minutes. Because it doesn't matter if that radically extended battery life if I didn't want to play it at all...

I don't expect Nintendo to break the laws of nature to produce a fun product... mainly because I don't want to sound like an arsehole.

PCs aren't even that much more expensive assuming you start off with a great monitor and do not give a flying fuck aboust case cosmetics. I handbuilt my current PC with a G1 GTX1080 for about $AUD1550... with a backlog of games. All because I already had a great monitor, a barebones ATX case and 650W PSU with some old water cooling setup already.

Completely tore the guts out of it. High capacity SSD, clean install of Windows, RAM, new motherboard, the new Kabylake chipsets. What Nintendo is doing now is the obvious direction for home consoles. It needs to innovate, and trying to spend years recuping on selling a poor PC with limited utility in comparison to something that is convenient is going to be a market model to suffer.

I have a harder time working out why my PS4 Pro is fucking up or figuring out how to navigate my router to find and block its broken online fuckery slowing down download speeds through the PS store. My Switch on the otherhand? All I have to do is pop in a cartridge. That's it. Those cartridges won't scratch, they load quickly, little mechanical noise... that's convenient. I'm going to play something convenient over something that is not.

The PS4 is less convenient than my custom built PC.

There is something inherently wrong with that. And if there is a console out there to get "casuals" to play more video games on a "console", it's going to be units like the Switch. Easy, uncomplicated, and easily social. That's why the Switch is doing well. People are overselling the Nintendo fan factor, neglecting the simple idea that convenience is king. If fsn factor was all there was the Gamecube and WiiU (both of which fun consoles with some of my all time favourite games, and even some of the best versions games (Deus Ex: HR WiiU edition was pretty awesome)) would have been financial successes on their own.

Addendum_Forthcoming:
Nintenfo is the biggest name in gaming as a whole, but it cannot afford to make the mistakes Microsoft and Sony do on a daily basis.

Sony would've gone bankrupt long ago if it wasn't for their gaming division. Sony's gaming division is what has kept Sony afloat amid losses from their other divisions. Now, Micosoft I don't believe has yet to turn profits in their gaming division (maybe recently they have) because they tried to pretty much buy the gaming market.

Addendum_Forthcoming:
You ever wonder why Nintendo isn't anywhere near as obnoxious about second hand games, or not wanting to push things like Netflix subscription services, or not telling developers to reel in the ridiculous fucking 'preorder culture' with 'Definitive' editions riddled withheld content that obvioudly belonged in the original game ... sold the same day as regular edition copies.

If Nintendo can avoif that culture, it may even be a better console for cash strapped gamers nog wanting to be treated like garbage as well.

Oh, really?

Addendum_Forthcoming:
I have a harder time working out why my PS4 Pro is fucking up or figuring out how to navigate my router to find and block its broken online fuckery slowing down download speeds through the PS store. My Switch on the otherhand? All I have to do is pop in a cartridge. That's it. Those cartridges won't scratch, they load quickly, little mechanical noise... that's convenient. I'm going to play something convenient over something that is not.

The PS4 is less convenient than my custom built PC.

There is something inherently wrong with that. And if there is a console out there to get "casuals" to play more video games on a "console", it's going to be units like the Switch. Easy, uncomplicated, and easily social. That's why the Switch is doing well. People are overselling the Nintendo fan factor, neglecting the simple idea that convenience is king. If fsn factor was all there was the Gamecube and WiiU (both of which fun consoles with some of my all time favourite games, and even some of the best versions games (Deus Ex: HR WiiU edition was pretty awesome)) would have been financial successes on their own.

LMAO, the PS4 is as plug and play as it gets. Why don't you try playing Splatoon 2 online while chatting with friends and see how plug and play that is? I think there's a flowchart you need to look at to get that working.

You're forgetting successful for Nintendo and successful in the gaming industry are 2 different things. You said Nintendo is projecting 16 million sold Switches in its 1st console year while Sony is projecting 18 million sold PS4s this year, which is years after launch. The reason PlayStations outsell Nintendos because they have more fun factor (i.e. games). The WiiU may have had the best version of Deus Ex: HR but did a Nintendo system ever have the much better ORIGINAL Deus Ex game? Nope, but PS2 did.

Yoshi178:
No COD. No Madden. No GTA. yeah i can live with that. (ESPECIALLY without bloody GTA XD)

Switch exclusive

also Switch exclusive.

You guys remember Super Meat Boy don't you? the same platforming Indie game Sony fans used to brag about having on the PS3 all the time and how they used to mock Wii owners for not getting it? Well not only did Wii U end up getting the original eventually anyway, but now we're also getting the sequel exclusively too. :)

Good times. That was filled with a lot of good stuff, though of course they tease us with No More Heroes.

Aiddon:

Yoshi178:

again. just because you're not interested in it doesn't mean it doesn't count as a new IP. i couldn't give any less of a shit about Horizon the same way you and Phoenix don't give a shit about ARMS.

if ARMS doesn't count as a new IP, then neither should Horizon.

Plus ARMS had sold over a million units by the end of June, meaning it's clear that it was a success.

http://www.ign.com/articles/2017/07/26/nintendo-switch-sells-47-million-units-arms-and-mario-kart-sell-strongly

I fully expect another moving of the goal post any moment now.

I'm not talking about whether I care about ARMS, or how financially successful it was, I'm commenting that it seems to have faded from the public view, and very quickly at that.

CritialGaming:

It's not exclusive. It's literally coming to everything.

that's not what Eurogamer said this morning when i saw their article before. i come home from work just now and see they've updated it since then.

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2017-08-30-super-meat-boy-sequel-to-launch-exclusively-on-switch

regardless. Super Meat Boy is still technically a 3rd Party Party game that Switch is getting so that should make Phoenix happier.

Hawki:

Aiddon:

Yoshi178:

again. just because you're not interested in it doesn't mean it doesn't count as a new IP. i couldn't give any less of a shit about Horizon the same way you and Phoenix don't give a shit about ARMS.

if ARMS doesn't count as a new IP, then neither should Horizon.

Plus ARMS had sold over a million units by the end of June, meaning it's clear that it was a success.

http://www.ign.com/articles/2017/07/26/nintendo-switch-sells-47-million-units-arms-and-mario-kart-sell-strongly

I fully expect another moving of the goal post any moment now.

I'm not talking about whether I care about ARMS, or how financially successful it was, I'm commenting that it seems to have faded from the public view, and very quickly at that.

buzz has also died for Legend of Zelda BOTW. what's your point?

both games are out now so obviously most of the attention is being shifted from the fans onto Metroid and Mario Odyssey atm. i've personnally been hanging out for Metroid.

Addendum_Forthcoming:

The Switch is the best portable gaming unit on the market. Balancing power, weight and portability at a price point that is acceptable.

How you can make this statement is beyond me. The Switch is portable but it is NOT the best portable gaming unit on the market. Not by a long shot. Both the Nintendo 3DS and Smart phone devices are better portable gaming units. The switch has zero battery life, is too long and bulky to carry around in a simple pocket, and doesn't have any games on it yet. Sure the Switch has the novelty of being a home console capable of going on a trip with you, but that doesn't mean much when you have to plug it in every 90 minutes.

I can take my 3DS out and play Pokemon 8+ hours without having to charge it. Or any number of the 250+ games on the system. My Cell phone also has a 5+ hour gaming charge on it and neither of those systems require a special carrying case that I have to hold in my hand, or keep in a backpack with me. They fit in my pocket. Easy Peasy.

Saying the Switch is the best portable on the market is absolutely nonsense. I'm glad you are a fan, but be realistic.

P.S. in your response to the battery life stated above. The VITA has amazing graphics, and a beautiful HD screen, and has a battery with 6-10 hours of battery life. My top of the line gaming laptop has a 15+ hour battery life. If you console only have a 1-2 hour battery life, it is a complete failure of a battery system in your console. Nevermind bring up the endless 1080p displays on any number of tablets that all have fantastic battery life that puts the Switch to shame.

Yoshi178:

CritialGaming:

It's not exclusive. It's literally coming to everything.

that's not what Eurogamer said this morning when i saw their article before. i come home from work just now and see they've updated it since then.

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2017-08-30-super-meat-boy-sequel-to-launch-exclusively-on-switch

regardless. Super Meat Boy is still technically a 3rd Party Party game that Switch is getting so that should make Phoenix happier.

Indie support is not 3rd party support. I don't know why you can understand the difference between getting a game like Call of Duty versus getting a small indie title. Indie's are called Indie for a reason and they cannot prop up and entire console. Yoshi, I am happy you love your Nintendo so much, but you gotta push aside your bias and look at facts. I mean real facts, not just blurring the narrative to fit what you want the facts to be.

Nobody is telling you not to enjoy the Switch, or love what is coming out on it. Go for it. But you have to understand that selling 10+ million units doesn't make a system successful. Nobody calls a system great because the system sold well. They call it great because of the games. Have you ever heard anybody go, "WoW the SNES was a great system, it sold so many units it was crazy." Or do they say, "Man I loved the SNES, the games were incredible Chrono Trigger, Final Fantasy 6, Super Mario World, Donkey Kong Country, Star Fox, Wow!"

In ten years nobody will give two shits about the Wii or the Wii U, regardless of console quality, because the system didn't get enough memorable games. Mario games are almost always good, but at the end of the day they are usually just Mario games. People today still rave about Mario 64, but not many people talk about New Super Mario Bros U.

Yoshi178:

buzz has also died for Legend of Zelda BOTW. what's your point?

both games are out now so obviously most of the attention is being shifted from the fans onto Metroid and Mario Odyssey atm. i've personnally been hanging out for Metroid.

Nintendo being successful in any way really does freak a certain subset of gamer culture right the hell out. It's almost like they're scared of Nintendo doing well.

Phoenixmgs:

Sony would've gone bankrupt long ago if it wasn't for their gaming division. Sony's gaming division is what has kept Sony afloat amid losses from their other divisions. Now, Micosoft I don't believe has yet to turn profits in their gaming division (maybe recently they have) because they tried to pretty much buy the gaming market.

Only in the last year has the affordability of parts and ease of construction has allowed Sony to turn a profit on hardware sales specifically. According to Playstation spokespeople when releasing their financial statement in the first quarter in 2017, most of that is from software sales.

In those respect Nintendo is no different, the difference is that Nintendo is worth more than Sony combined. And this isn't even a recent trend. From Q2 2016 market capitalization reports, this is still the case.

Phoenixmgs:

Oh, really?

Yes, oh really. Because when I think of preorder culture bullshit we see I Think examples like Deus Ex: MD and Arkham Knight series and microtransactions. The differenc is I can pick up Mario + Rabbids KB on special or preowned and still be eligible to receive that content.

This by no means is some fucking gold standard, either.

Phoenixmgs:

LMAO, the PS4 is as plug and play as it gets. Why don't you try playing Splatoon 2 online while chatting with friends and see how plug and play that is? I think there's a flowchart you need to look at to get that working.

So Nintendo didn't want people screaming into a device on the bus. Granted the home chat system sucks and I would have preferred it if they offered 3rd Party bluetooth options in general, but I'm not going to pretend voice chat is the be all and end all of convenience.

And no, the PS4 is not simply plug and play, assuming that by 'plug and play' you have to dig into your router settings to block their online server authentication eating away at your possibility not merely to install games off their PS store, but even when doing things like updating content. And don't you dare forget to unblock their specific unnecessary IPs when you go online with it again otherwise online features won't even work.

And yeah, my custom handbuilt PC is more convenient than my PS4 Pro.

I Like the PS4 even, I like the games on it. But if that level of being PS4 exclusive continues to decline there isn't much point in buying a PS5. And just like withthe Nintendo, Sony makes most of its money on software sales.

You're forgetting successful for Nintendo and successful in the gaming industry are 2 different things. You said Nintendo is projecting 16 million sold Switches in its 1st console year while Sony is projecting 18 million sold PS4s this year, which is years after launch. The reason PlayStations outsell Nintendos because they have more fun factor (i.e. games). The WiiU may have had the best version of Deus Ex: HR but did a Nintendo system ever have the much better ORIGINAL Deus Ex game? Nope, but PS2 did.

That's funny, because according to financial data, Nintendo is not only a bigger company than Sony, that has better profit margins, but is the only company making money being purely a hardware and software sales giant.

CritialGaming:

How you can make this statement is beyond me. The Switch is portable but it is NOT the best portable gaming unit on the market. Not by a long shot. Both the Nintendo 3DS and Smart phone devices are better portable gaming units. The switch has zero battery life, is too long and bulky to carry around in a simple pocket, and doesn't have any games on it yet. Sure the Switch has the novelty of being a home console capable of going on a trip with you, but that doesn't mean much when you have to plug it in every 90 minutes.

Patently garbage ... I've run my Swtch for 3.5 hours of gaming in total. That includes switching it off and playing it later. The PS Vita is rated by industry experts to last a similar length of time 4 hours for their first model, without running comparable hardware. I know, I have a first generation model Vita. The Nintendo Switch weighs about 100 gm more, but for that 100gms difference is includig detachable joycons allowing for portable co-op gaming on the fly.

Not to mention the difficulty of designing games on the PSVita.

The Switch will see a steady stream of indie titles due to the choice of chipset and GPU, alone. Given the GPU is particular suited to delivering Unity and Unreal engine games efficiently. Literally, Nintendo is doing things PSVita fans wanted out of the PSVita.

Nintendo 3DS is a phenomenal gaming unit, but given that my criterion was a balance between power and portability, my argument was about Nintendo reaching a suitable compromise at a suitable pricepoint. As you might say I'm glad you're a irrational hater, but let's be realistic. I like my Switch, people like the Switch, me explaining key aspects for that success as Nintendo now has become a bigger company than a failing Sony has reasons.

For starters, people should start defining 'success' ... because from the beginning, looking at financials, Nintendo is already successful with the Switch. More over, I like the Switch, the PS4 Pro and my gaming rig, but I would like to point out currently I'm playing the Switch and my gaming rig to the detriment of my PS4 Pro.

Bloodborne is one of my favourite games in all existence. Bloodborne makes getting a PS4 worth it for me... and singularly the best Soulsborne game, because it was the game that made Soulsborne tick for me. But god, what else is there that I can't play on my PC?

I have all the Soulsborne games barring one on my PC. To put this into perspective, the Switch is releasing more exclusives by the end of this year than XBox in in the last two years. nd the thing is, Nintendo isn't slowing down that release of exclusive titles and new IP creation. We need to break down why the Switch is doing well, and simply calling it 'Nintendo fans' is beyond fucking stupid, because arguably the Gamecube was the best console of its generation and yet it failed.

CritialGaming:
In ten years nobody will give two shits about the Wii or the Wii U

Wii came out more than a decade ago. i still give a shit about it, the Wii is home to one of my favourite games of all time, Xenoblade Chronicles. most people just look at the console and only remember it for getting alot of shovelware like carnival games. not alot of people bothered to wade through the shovelware and find the gems on the system. i prefer sunshine personally. but people are also always saying how much they loved Mario Galaxy whenever people talk about mario games today.

people do give a shit about the console. things like carnival games and all the shovelware is what it gets remembered most for.

as for the 3rd Party comment. indie devs are "3rd Parties." they just aren't large 3rd Party developers like Capcom, EA and such and are usually very small studios.

Addendum_Forthcoming:

Phoenixmgs:

Sony would've gone bankrupt long ago if it wasn't for their gaming division. Sony's gaming division is what has kept Sony afloat amid losses from their other divisions. Now, Micosoft I don't believe has yet to turn profits in their gaming division (maybe recently they have) because they tried to pretty much buy the gaming market.

Only in the last year has the affordability of parts and ease of construction has allowed Sony to turn a profit on hardware sales specifically. According to Playstation spokespeople when releasing their financial statement in the first quarter in 2017, most of that is from software sales.

Does it matter how Sony makes a profit? They obviously know how to make massive profits in their Gaming division as they've been doing it for 4 straight generations now.

In those respect Nintendo is no different, the difference is that Nintendo is worth more than Sony combined. And this isn't even a recent trend. From Q2 2016 market capitalization reports, this is still the case.

How is Nintendo worth more than Sony when Sony's PSN makes more money than Nintendo? Sony as a whole definitely makes more money than Nintendo. You're telling me if you were offered money equivalent to the profits made by Sony or Nintendo, you'd pick the lower number?

Again, I don't even get a shit about how much money each company makes. I don't get why that even came up, neither of us have any stakes in either company. It's which company offers ME the better product, and that's Sony hands-down, it's not even close.

Yes, oh really. Because when I think of preorder culture bullshit we see I Think examples like Deus Ex: MD and Arkham Knight series and microtransactions. The differenc is I can pick up Mario + Rabbids KB on special or preowned and still be eligible to receive that content.

This by no means is some fucking gold standard, either.

What content was I not able to get from an Arkham game? I usually don't even enter in the pre-order or Day 1 edition codes for that junk, it's more a waste of my time than anything. I remember when I sold Dishonored 2 and noticed there was an insert for some kind of "pack" that I never used, I merely used it to sweeten my eBay listing. I put in the game disc and play the game. Season Pass stuff is the worst because you don't even know what the fuck you're paying for.

So Nintendo didn't want people screaming into a device on the bus. Granted the home chat system sucks and I would have preferred it if they offered 3rd Party bluetooth options in general, but I'm not going to pretend voice chat is the be all and end all of convenience.

And no, the PS4 is not simply plug and play, assuming that by 'plug and play' you have to dig into your router settings to block their online server authentication eating away at your possibility not merely to install games off their PS store, but even when doing things like updating content. And don't you dare forget to unblock their specific unnecessary IPs when you go online with it again otherwise online features won't even work.

Nintendo could've just put a mic jack on the tablet to allow for chat just like a regular tablet and phone has... But Nintendo has think like Apple and screw over their customers as much as possible.

I don't have any issue with PSN on my PS3 or PS4, what features don't work? You can just put the console in the DMZ. If there's a patch for a game, you can still play the game.

That's funny, because according to financial data, Nintendo is not only a bigger company than Sony, that has better profit margins, but is the only company making money being purely a hardware and software sales giant.

Sony makes more profits as a company or just their gaming division than Nintendo...

To put this into perspective, the Switch is releasing more exclusives by the end of this year than XBox in in the last two years. nd the thing is, Nintendo isn't slowing down that release of exclusive titles and new IP creation. We need to break down why the Switch is doing well, and simply calling it 'Nintendo fans' is beyond fucking stupid, because arguably the Gamecube was the best console of its generation and yet it failed.

Beating the Xbox in exclusives is a very very very very low bar. Technically, there are no exclusives on Xbox anymore as they all come out on PC. Microsoft has slacked off so much in making games anyways. There's like a massive hole that has opened up in the console landscape that Nintendo decided to not even compete for that but instead decided to compete against themselves for the portable market. Since when is Nintendo about creating new IPs? Gamecube wasn't a good console in games or in tech (no online, tiny discs, bad controller), what bizarro world do you live in?

Yoshi178:
the Wii is home to one of my favourite games of all time, Xenoblade Chronicles

Have you even played the other games in the series?

Yoshi178:

buzz has also died for Legend of Zelda BOTW. what's your point?

Different scenario. ARMS is a "game as a service," with the base game constantly getting new characters, while BOTW is a more traditional release. My point is that of these types of games, their updates tend to get regular news - Overwatch for example has regular content that's reguarly reported on. Even Splatoon sort of entered the public conciousness. It's just conspicuous that ARMS never seemed to enter the public conciousness in the same way, falling more into the realm of games like Battleborn and LawBreakers.

Don't care either way, just commenting.

Aiddon:

Nintendo being successful in any way really does freak a certain subset of gamer culture right the hell out. It's almost like they're scared of Nintendo doing well.

...what the heck gave you the impression I was "freaking out?"

Just to clarify, I want Nintendo to do well, because not only do I want most publishers of media to do well (more products, more competition, etc.), but they make good software, even while their home console hardware is lacking.

I mean, I thought I left the console wars behind after the 16 bit era, but shows what I know. 0_0

Phoenixmgs:
Gamecube wasn't a good console in games or in tech (no online, tiny discs, bad controller), what bizarro world do you live in?

Tech, I agree with. Games? Not so much. The Gamecube had plenty of great exclusive titles, and at least at the time, did reasonably well as far as third parties went. I'd say the Gamecube is a pretty solid device. I'd say the PS2 'won' the console war of its generation, but for me personally, Gamecube>PS2>Xbox

Course Nintendo jumped the shark with the Wii after that, with its focus on motion controls, and so far hasn't won me back. I picked up a Wii for $60 and have barely even used it because I can't stand its control scheme. And those games that do use a normal control scheme are either third party titles I may as well get on the PS3 or Xbox 360, or few and far between (Smash Bros uses a normal control scheme I think, for instance).

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