Official Special Investigation Into Trump Thread

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Trump: 'Your favorite president did nothing wrong'

Wow, Trump admits Obama is blameless! How big of him.

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1020642287725043712

Saelune:
Trump: 'Your favorite president did nothing wrong'

Wow, Trump admits Obama is blameless! How big of him.

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1020642287725043712

This made me realize that I'd have to think long and hard to tell you who my favourite US-President was and it's not because there are so many great options. I guess Lincoln?

Saelune:
Trump: 'Your favorite president did nothing wrong'

The sheer arrogance of this statement is kind of appalling.

Even if you assume he's talking specifically to Republicans - he's basically laying claim to the title of the most-loved Republican president ever. Which is an astoundingly bold lie, really. Even if we discount Lincoln, Reagan has him beat by a mile. Even the Bushes had higher average approval.

Also, it's bloody hilarious to see Trump responding to bad news by calling it "inconceivable." Really, it's like he's asking for it:

I've never been more satisfied with a Princess Bride reference in my entire life.

PsychedelicDiamond:

Saelune:
Trump: 'Your favorite president did nothing wrong'

Wow, Trump admits Obama is blameless! How big of him.

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1020642287725043712

This made me realize that I'd have to think long and hard to tell you who my favourite US-President was and it's not because there are so many great options. I guess Lincoln?

Favorite does not necessarily mean 'best'. I mean, I think Obama and Lincoln are more similar, left-leaning people who tried their best to get the right to actually work with them, but the difference between the two is when the right said 'No, fuck you', Lincoln said 'Fuck you' right back. Obama did not.

And ofcourse, Lincoln ended slavery (due to that fuck you).

bastardofmelbourne:

Saelune:
Trump: 'Your favorite president did nothing wrong'

The sheer arrogance of this statement is kind of appalling.

Even if you assume he's talking specifically to Republicans - he's basically laying claim to the title of the most-loved Republican president ever. Which is an astoundingly bold lie, really. Even if we discount Lincoln, Reagan has him beat by a mile. Even the Bushes had higher average approval.

Also, it's bloody hilarious to see Trump responding to bad news by calling it "inconceivable." Really, it's like he's asking for it:

I've never been more satisfied with a Princess Bride reference in my entire life.

Trump is a delusional fascist. This is a fact. I have absolutely no doubt that if he were able to get the fascist dictatorship he clearly wants he would literally have us build a solid gold statue of himself in Washington DC. Probably with his foot on Obama and Hilary's bodies.

PsychedelicDiamond:

Saelune:
Trump: 'Your favorite president did nothing wrong'

Wow, Trump admits Obama is blameless! How big of him.

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1020642287725043712

This made me realize that I'd have to think long and hard to tell you who my favourite US-President was and it's not because there are so many great options. I guess Lincoln?

Lincoln was a Free Soiler. He wanted to free the slaves so that white famers without slaves could compete. As he entered office, he didn't care two hoots about the morality of Abolition. He did forge the Free Soilers and Abolition into one group after the Gettysburg address. He also wanted to deport African Americans back to Africa (I don't know how this would be done based on the failure of Liberia but he was shot before any actual plans could be completed.)

Don't know if this is part of the investigation or have relevence to it, but Julian Assange mabye be extridited from Ecuador to the UK:

https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/people/julian-assange#united-kingdom-extradition

Samtemdo8:
Don't know if this is part of the investigation or have relevence to it, but Julian Assange mabye be extridited from Ecuador to the UK:

https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/people/julian-assange#united-kingdom-extradition

Extradition is a bit of an overstatement here as all that would be involved is telling Assange that he can't freeload in the embassy anymore. He hasn't actually left Britain.

Let's also look at the sources of this information.

1. RT - Russia Today - new organization wholly controlled by the Russian government (which has been proven to launder damaging information through active coordination with Assange's Wikileaks)

2. The Intercept (anti-"establishment" left to far left news/editorial website) via an anonymous source "with connections" to the Ecuadorian administration - only appeared after the RT story

Avnger:

Samtemdo8:
Don't know if this is part of the investigation or have relevence to it, but Julian Assange mabye be extridited from Ecuador to the UK:

https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/people/julian-assange#united-kingdom-extradition

Extradition is a bit of an overstatement here as all that would be involved is telling Assange that he can't freeload in the embassy anymore. He hasn't actually left Britain.

Let's also look at the sources of this information.

1. RT - Russia Today - new organization wholly controlled by the Russian government (which has been proven to launder damaging information through active coordination with Assange's Wikileaks)

2. The Intercept (anti-"establishment" left to far left news/editorial website) via an anonymous source "with connections" to the Ecuadorian administration - only appeared after the RT story

I was confused by this news at first because I thought Julian Assange took asylum in Russia and remained there ever since?

Or was that just Edward Snowden, because I though both men did.

Samtemdo8:
I was confused by this news at first because I thought Julian Assange took asylum in Russia and remained there ever since?

Or was that just Edward Snowden, because I though both men did.

Edward Snowden took asylum in Russia. Julian Assange has taken asylum in the Ecuadorian embassy in London, where he has been living under what is essentially house arrest for the past several years; if he steps foot outside, he will immediately be arrested.

As to the story - it's possible. Ecuador block his Internet access in March for unspecified reasons, so he could well be overstaying his welcome. However, I wouldn't be surprised if Assange gets extradited to the US only to have Trump decide that he wants to give the guy a medal for exposing Pizzagate or some shit.

In other news: Michael Cohen is almost certainly going to flip on Trump if he hasn't already.

The reason I say this has nothing to do with the leaked tape that was shown on CNN, which is not the bombshell many hoped it would be. It's a recording of Trump and Cohen talking about reimbursing the National Enquirer for their $150,000 catch-and-kill of a story by former Playboy model Karen McDougal in which she says she had an affair with Trump from 2006-2007. The Enquirer bought the exclusive rights to McDougal's story, but then never published it; this is a known tactic in journalism used to suppress damaging stories. The guy who runs the Enquirer, David Pecker, is a close friend of Donald Trump; the two have been in a symbiotic relationship since the 80s, where Trump gives attention-grabbing headlines in exchange for favourable coverage.

The tape definitely confirms that Trump knew about McDougal's story being bought by the Enquirer and that he definitely knew that he was expected to reimburse them for it. There's a line that isn't clear, where Trump may be either saying "pay with cash" or "don't pay with cash" - two very different statements that seem kinda funny in light of the whole would/wouldn't circus act that Trump pulled after Helsinki. But the tape's not the reason I'm saying Cohen is going to flip on Trump. The tape is really just concrete evidence confirming something everybody already knows: that Donald Trump is a dirty old man with a lot of money, who has had a lot of affairs with porn stars and Playboy models that he has covered up with NDAs and hush money. He's a shady character. We knew this already.

The reason why it's important is because of the performance that Cohen's lawyer, Lanny Davis, gave on CNN when releasing the tape. Davis had some surprisingly harsh words for Trump and Giulani - that Giulani was "falsely disparaging" Cohen because "they fear he has the truth about Donald Trump," that Cohen has been "insulted and called all sorts of things by people around Donald Trump," and that "only drug dealers and mobsters talk about cash."

This is Cohen's lawyer talking! He's basically shouting at the top of his lungs "HEY DUDES MICHAEL COHEN IS OPEN TO A PLEA DEAL YOU GUYS". And the tape sure pissed Trump off - he went straight to Twitter to bitch about how the leak was a violation of attorney-client privilege, in spite of the fact that the only reason CNN was able to publish the tape was because Trump's legal team waived their privilege. (In other words; the President was bitching about the leak of a tape that he greenlit the leaking of.)

It's fair to say that if Cohen isn't already talking to Mueller's team, he's angling to do so. And a Cohen flip could be catastrophic for Trump, who is extremely protective of any attempts at investigating his financial dealings - deals to which Cohen had intimate, long-term access to over many years of serving as Trump's off-the-books fixer.

But...at this point, would that be any different to the tape that got leaked? We all know that Trump is corrupt. He makes only nominal attempts to hide it. What can Cohen give the world other than confirmation of what we already know is true? Trump's supporters have ignored everything up to this point, including shit that should have resulted in the man's very public scalping. I'm sure they can manage to throw this one onto the big pile of suppressed uncomfortable facts that they keep in whatever dark corners of their brain that aren't illuminated by the comforting television glow of Fox News broadcasts.

Welp, things just moved one step closer to Trump being able to wiggle his way out of any consequences for his actions. . . . .again.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-44962120

A couple of die-hard conservatives int he House of Representatives have filed the paperwork to try to get Deputy Attorney General Rod Rosenstein (i.e. Mueller's boss) impeached. While It is unlikely to go anywhere as an impeachment, it does give Trump the excuse to fire Rosenstein and replace him with someone who can impede Mueller's investigation.

It really wouldn't surprise me if he did. In fact, a few of my friends have already started a betting pool on whether or not Trump will try to either cancel the next presidential elections or declare the fall mid-terms invalid if they don't go his way. I'm betting on both, but I'm a cynic and a pessimist.

With all the 'Allies' Trump has thrown under the bus, how is there still people in power who support him? I know he'll always have yes men, but isn't he just spending a huge amount of political capital to keep an affair under wraps? Or is that the investigations plan all along, to tie up Trump, so he cant wreck democracy too much

davidmc1158:
A couple of die-hard conservatives int he House of Representatives have filed the paperwork to try to get Deputy Attorney General Rod Rosenstein (i.e. Mueller's boss) impeached. While It is unlikely to go anywhere as an impeachment, it does give Trump the excuse to fire Rosenstein and replace him with someone who can impede Mueller's investigation.

The funny thing is that by filing articles of impeachment that allege Rosenstein conduct constitutes high crimes or misdemeanours, it is now completely impossible for those same Congressman to justify voting against similar articles of impeachment filed against Trump.

Basically, by trying to impeach Rosenstein, they're stating that they consider the bar for impeachment to be so low that it becomes completely unthinkable to say that Trump's conduct doesn't also qualify. If and when Trump gets impeached, these guys are going to find themselves with their balls in a vice trying to explain why Rosenstein not declassifying documents fast enough is a "high crime or misdemeanour," but Donald Trump firing the director of the FBI to stop a politically inconvenient investigation doesn't qualify.

'Course, it's not like they'll ever vote to impeach Trump anyway. These guys have no principles. Republican voters really need to start paying attention to the fact that all their elected representatives seem to be colossal hypocrites.

bastardofmelbourne:
'Course, it's not like they'll ever vote to impeach Trump anyway. These guys have no principles. Republican voters really need to start paying attention to the fact that all their elected representatives seem to be colossal hypocrites.

You do know this is exactly what the cult wants, right? They want this blind dogged loyalty. Because these types of Republican voters want that blind loyalty for them and all their endeavors.

They are the people who will be verbal racist, threatening, and belligerent.. and then call up and complain to someone about racism towards them.

You want logic to win the day with the illogical. Things are going exactly as planned for them. The nation's creditability might be going to shit, we have loads of our exports in lockers because no one wants to pay for them (Trump was supposed to be the President who cut extraneous spending but just dumped 12 Billion for reasons unknown), we have internment camps, he's tried to slash education, housing, gone back on his promises to on medicare and medicaid, his tax cut that he promised wasn't going to be only for the rich was totally a tax cut for the rich...

And they love him. Because they believe in their hearts when push comes to shove, they can count on his stubbornness for them. Although we've seen first hand his actions hurts them. But they believe they have a seat at the table, and are desperately hoping that some of the scraps of the money, benefits, power, and resources Trump and his cronies are gorging themselves on will fall near them and they'll be allowed to keep them.

davidmc1158:
Welp, things just moved one step closer to Trump being able to wiggle his way out of any consequences for his actions. . . . .again.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-44962120

A couple of die-hard conservatives int he House of Representatives have filed the paperwork to try to get Deputy Attorney General Rod Rosenstein (i.e. Mueller's boss) impeached. While It is unlikely to go anywhere as an impeachment, it does give Trump the excuse to fire Rosenstein and replace him with someone who can impede Mueller's investigation.

It really wouldn't surprise me if he did. In fact, a few of my friends have already started a betting pool on whether or not Trump will try to either cancel the next presidential elections or declare the fall mid-terms invalid if they don't go his way. I'm betting on both, but I'm a cynic and a pessimist.

Most Republicans think that these guys are insane and barely anyone takes them seriously. Republicans would be absolute retards to allow for an actual impeachment trial to take place. It would do more damage than good and it would accomplish nothing. They might not be aware that impeaching Rosenstein wouldn't prevent what's going to happen, but that's besides the point.

Still, this is absolutely going to end with Trump trying to fire Rosenstein and Mueller. And just as with Comey firing, it won't go as well as he'd hoped. If anyone here thinks that the FBI doesn't have informants and actual undercover agents close to all the people involved in this mess, they're being extremely naive. Not to mention all the physical evidence.

Adam Jensen:
Still, this is absolutely going to end with Trump trying to fire Rosenstein and Mueller. And just as with Comey firing, it won't go as well as he'd hoped. If anyone here thinks that the FBI doesn't have informants and actual undercover agents close to all the people involved in this mess, they're being extremely naive. Not to mention all the physical evidence.

In the end, no amount of evidence will matter if the person (most likely a Trump loyalist) who follows Trump into the presidency pardons him for anything "he might have done" or if Trump just says 'fuck it' and pardons himself. Also, the evidence is irrelevant if there isn't anyone willing to prosecute. Beyond that, there is no way in hell that the current Republican party will impeach Trump because, whatever they may think of him personally, they are getting their agendas enacted through him.

EDIT: They've hitched their wagons to his erratic star and going against him now will just serve to embarrass them personally and damage their party generally. I do not see it happening unless there is a major _public_ shift party-wide and most republicans know that the Trump die-hard cult base will turn on them if they do something like that.

Reality is a harsh bitch and she cares nothing for the foibles of mere humans.

Interesting Times, my friends.

I've never said I was a friend of Trump. I loathe the man. So this does give me some pleasure.

Yet, as a fair man, I have to wonder why he would tape things like porn star pay offs in case of a rainy day, but not collusion between Trump and Russian nationals.

Maybe there was no time. But if he just could produce evidence, we could end this Farce and Trump could be behind bars like he belongs.

But my wishes can not drive the law. Cohen, come up with something tangible.

ObsidianJones:
Interesting Times, my friends.

I've never said I was a friend of Trump. I loathe the man. So this does give me some pleasure.

Yet, as a fair man, I have to wonder why he would tape things like porn star pay offs in case of a rainy day, but not collusion between Trump and Russian nationals.

Maybe there was no time. But if he just could produce evidence, we could end this Farce and Trump could be behind bars like he belongs.

But my wishes can not drive the law. Cohen, come up with something tangible.

I am betting this is just the tip of what Cohen has on him. He is likely putting it out there because he knows the Feds have the tapes already and it is all about to come out anyhow. This means that if Trump was aware of the Russian meeting in advance, not only has been Trump been lying, but Jr could be in serious trouble for lying to the feds as well. I actually do hope they hold out prosecuting until Trump is out of office just so he cant pardon everyone involved. Though as it is the Tariffs may ruin his chance of being reelected more so than anything else he does.

Tapes aren't their only problem. They also have all of their e-mails. Not to mention informants and undercover agents, in case someone forgot how intelligence agencies operate. One would have to be very naive to assume assume that informants and undercover agents aren't involved.

bastardofmelbourne:
If and when Trump gets impeached, these guys are going to find themselves with their balls in a vice trying to explain why Rosenstein not declassifying documents fast enough is a "high crime or misdemeanour," but Donald Trump firing the director of the FBI to stop a politically inconvenient investigation doesn't qualify.

Will they, actually? Plenty of inconsistencies get ignored by our media. Like "deficit hawks" voting for massive increases to military spending.

Lil devils x:

ObsidianJones:
Interesting Times, my friends.

I've never said I was a friend of Trump. I loathe the man. So this does give me some pleasure.

Yet, as a fair man, I have to wonder why he would tape things like porn star pay offs in case of a rainy day, but not collusion between Trump and Russian nationals.

Maybe there was no time. But if he just could produce evidence, we could end this Farce and Trump could be behind bars like he belongs.

But my wishes can not drive the law. Cohen, come up with something tangible.

I am betting this is just the tip of what Cohen has on him. He is likely putting it out there because he knows the Feds have the tapes already and it is all about to come out anyhow. This means that if Trump was aware of the Russian meeting in advance, not only has been Trump been lying, but Jr could be in serious trouble for lying to the feds as well. I actually do hope they hold out prosecuting until Trump is out of office just so he cant pardon everyone involved. Though as it is the Tariffs may ruin his chance of being reelected more so than anything else he does.

The narrative is that Cohen was in the room when Jr approached Trump, cited the email, and Donald verbally gave his ok. As in telling Jr to go ahead with the meeting.

That means that Donald gave a verbal command to go ahead with the possible colluding with a foreign government to receive information on a presidential candidate. If substantiated, that reverses the 2 damn years of "NO COLLUSION". And (while not impossible with the Cult of Trump), it will be nigh impossible for the Republicans to hand-wave that. But more importantly, the world isn't just Democrat and Republican. One would hope that the 115,449,897 eligible who didn't vote would feel galled enough to show their displeasure in having their nation co-opted like this.

We are very right when we say the cult of Trump might not be reached. But as we often forget, we have other options than the delusional.

And, with Russia being found guilty of Hacking the Election (and how curious that Trump will deny it), it does lead the way for specific criminal charges.

But honestly... History is being written here. We know that Putin himself said that he wanted Trump to win. We know that Russia funds Trump's businesses. That's been public knowledge for years before the 'Presidency'.

But what if that wasn't the pull he needed? What if the simple information was that Russia, once again, knew our system of government better than Trump and said "Guess what? just by taking this clandestine meeting, you all opened yourself to irreversible jail time. Let's win you an election so you can rip apart this country!"

Once again, History is being written here. I'll do some research, but I can't think of another President who was so directly in the pocket of a foreign power. This is the kind of stuff that new laws and horrific first offense jail time is based off of. There's no legal precedent for the president selling out his country from before his election. So how could we look at old laws that couldn't conceive this happening to justify the inconceivable offense that might actually occurred?

Hell, this might be added to the list of what Treason is because this will be the biggest betrayal in the history of the United States. Fuck the war time edict. Emotions will run high if proven, every deal Trump made pro Russia and anti-Us will be blown up to an epic proportion, and Trump will replace Benedict Arnold. Handily.

ObsidianJones:
One would hope that the 115,449,897 eligible who didn't vote would feel galled enough to show their displeasure in having their nation co-opted like this.

Why? Their nation was already co-opted by its own oligarchs. And it's been obvious for some time.

Seanchaidh:

ObsidianJones:
One would hope that the 115,449,897 eligible who didn't vote would feel galled enough to show their displeasure in having their nation co-opted like this.

Why? Their nation was already co-opted by its own oligarchs. And it's been obvious for some time.

Tribalism.

A lot of people embrace it. It's ok if our system sucks because it's our system and what are you going to do?

But the second that someone outside messes with OUR system, there will be hell to pay.

Seanchaidh:

bastardofmelbourne:
If and when Trump gets impeached, these guys are going to find themselves with their balls in a vice trying to explain why Rosenstein not declassifying documents fast enough is a "high crime or misdemeanour," but Donald Trump firing the director of the FBI to stop a politically inconvenient investigation doesn't qualify.

Will they, actually? Plenty of inconsistencies get ignored by our media. Like "deficit hawks" voting for massive increases to military spending.

Well...yeah.

I was trying to be optimistic, damn it! I just played Little Red Lie, and now I feel all icky and cynical inside.

Seanchaidh:

bastardofmelbourne:
If and when Trump gets impeached, these guys are going to find themselves with their balls in a vice trying to explain why Rosenstein not declassifying documents fast enough is a "high crime or misdemeanour," but Donald Trump firing the director of the FBI to stop a politically inconvenient investigation doesn't qualify.

Will they, actually? Plenty of inconsistencies get ignored by our media. Like "deficit hawks" voting for massive increases to military spending.

Yea and "deficit hawks" voting for tax breaks and bailouts for the wealthy. It was nonsense, is nonsense and will still be nonsense tomorrow.

Seanchaidh:

bastardofmelbourne:
If and when Trump gets impeached, these guys are going to find themselves with their balls in a vice trying to explain why Rosenstein not declassifying documents fast enough is a "high crime or misdemeanour," but Donald Trump firing the director of the FBI to stop a politically inconvenient investigation doesn't qualify.

Will they, actually? Plenty of inconsistencies get ignored by our media. Like "deficit hawks" voting for massive increases to military spending.

Is that an inconsistency? Deficit Hawks of late have typically been Republican. And Republicans have always been pro military. There's seems to be always a large separation between Republicans' idea of Government and their idea of the Police and the Military. Hell, they'll habitually vote for less money in education and more money for military.

It's an inconsistency in ideas, but it's been their consistent way of governing since forever.

Apparently, Paul Manafort has chosen to go to trial for fraud.

Word of mouth is that Manafort has been caught bang to rights, and is therefore almost certain to be found guilty and face a long stint in prison (theoretically; see below). The prosecution has admitted freely that the charges do not relate to Trump or Russia collusion, and reference to Trump is not expected in the trial. However, it is believed that the charges were designed to induce Manafort to spill some beans on Trump: that he co-operate and take a plea bargain on the fraud case, giving the special counsel what they really want to know.

My speculation is that Manafort has gone to trial knowing full well that a presidential pardon is guarateed: Manafort's freedom and wealth are under no significant risk at all.

Agema:
My speculation is that Manafort has gone to trial knowing full well that a presidential pardon is guarateed: Manafort's freedom and wealth are under no significant risk at all.

Is that how pardons work? The President just steps in like a fairy godmother, waves a magic wand and all the charges disappear in a puff of glitter? Does there not have to be some kind of approval from other governmental bodies?

Palindromemordnilap:

Agema:
My speculation is that Manafort has gone to trial knowing full well that a presidential pardon is guarateed: Manafort's freedom and wealth are under no significant risk at all.

Is that how pardons work? The President just steps in like a fairy godmother, waves a magic wand and all the charges disappear in a puff of glitter? Does there not have to be some kind of approval from other governmental bodies?

Yes, that is how US pardons work. Yes, it is total bullshit. No, no-one is going to change it. Both parties find the presidential pardon too useful while their party has a president in power.

The only limit on the presidential pardon is that it can only pardon federal offences. This is why Michael Cohen is also being prosecuted at the state level.

bastardofmelbourne:

Palindromemordnilap:

Agema:
My speculation is that Manafort has gone to trial knowing full well that a presidential pardon is guarateed: Manafort's freedom and wealth are under no significant risk at all.

Is that how pardons work? The President just steps in like a fairy godmother, waves a magic wand and all the charges disappear in a puff of glitter? Does there not have to be some kind of approval from other governmental bodies?

Yes, that is how US pardons work. Yes, it is total bullshit. No, no-one is going to change it. Both parties find the presidential pardon too useful while their party has a president in power.

The only limit on the presidential pardon is that it can only pardon federal offences. This is why Michael Cohen is also being prosecuted at the state level.

However, there is another small loophole. A person who accepts a pardon for a federal offense also waives their right to refuse to testify under the 5th amendment. The US Supreme Court has ruled that accepting a pardon is legally admitting guilt; therefore you've already been "incriminated" and can't "self-incriminate" yourself any further. If Cohen had his 5th amendment rights revoked, he could be forced to testify with contempt of court or perjury awaiting him if he refuses or lies, respectively.

WaPo has a good write-up:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/volokh-conspiracy/wp/2017/06/02/if-youre-pardoned-can-you-be-compelled-to-testify-about-your-crime/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.8a591b847bb8

ObsidianJones:

Seanchaidh:

ObsidianJones:
One would hope that the 115,449,897 eligible who didn't vote would feel galled enough to show their displeasure in having their nation co-opted like this.

Why? Their nation was already co-opted by its own oligarchs. And it's been obvious for some time.

Tribalism.

A lot of people embrace it. It's ok if our system sucks because it's our system and what are you going to do?

But the second that someone outside messes with OUR system, there will be hell to pay.

Not sure why tribalism is something you'd hope for.

So collusion is not crime anyway? No need for pardons

#ThingsGuiltyPeopleSay

Saelune:

This tweet has prompted two excellent writeups explaining precisely why Trump and his lawyers keep talking about collusion and why reporters and commentators shouldn't fall for the bait.

Everyone curious or skeptical about what crimes Trump has committed should give those articles a read.

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