Zero Punctuation: Kid Icarus: Uprising

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You're back! This one was just like you're older ones.
Cruel and hilarious in equal amounts.
Very good review!

Grey Day for Elcia:

He's a critic; It's his job to be critical and to critique video games.

*chuckles*
Which is why he immediately begins with an ad-hominem against the game's audience, and not just the game itself. "A shitty game for twats".

Let me break this shit down for you:

+Simply disagreeing with his opinion? "Not fanboyism."
It's perfectly rational to give reasons why as long as you aren't acting like a tool. (see next point)

+Getting pissed off just because someone doesn't like a game that you do?
Insecure and childish. "Fanboy."

+When the critic tells you that you're inferior/stupid/etc solely because you like something they don't?
That isn't a review, it's just trolling.

Grey Day for Elcia:
The Nintendo fanboys en mass here, I see. You can always pick them out--they're the ones fighting tooth and nail to justify obviously broken mechanics, as if not doing so would cause their deity to commit suicide. Would admitting something is dumb be all that hard? Come now.

"Controls do suck, yeah. You can change them, but it's a shame you even have to. I still really enjoyed the game on a whole." - Not a fanboy/girl

"The controls are fine. You're just bad. Why not go into the menu and set them all yourself? Game is awesome." Fanboy.

So saying the controls are fine makes you a fanboy?

Atmos Duality:

Grey Day for Elcia:

He's a critic; It's his job to be critical and to critique video games.

*chuckles*
Which is why he immediately begins with an ad-hominem against the game's audience, and not just the game itself. "A shitty game for twats".

Let me break this shit down for you:

+Simply disagreeing with his opinion? "Not fanboyism."
It's perfectly rational to give reasons why as long as you aren't acting like a tool. (see next point)

+Getting pissed off just because someone doesn't like a game that you do?
Insecure and childish. "Fanboy."

+When the critic tells you that you're inferior/stupid/etc solely because you like something they don't?
That isn't a review, it's just trolling.

You're failing to acknowledge that it's also trying to be funny by being mean

Grey Day for Elcia:

RJ Dalton:
It really blows my mind that game companies make such damn obvious mistakes with controls. It really does. How could anyone design such a set-up and then get through playtesting with it and nobody realizes its obvious problems?

I imagine it went something like this:

Head of Testing: "How did it go?"

Tester 1: "Well, the controls are horrible and playing the game anywhere without a flat surface and standing still was actually painful."

Tester 2: "I agree. My hand cramped up so bad I couldn't physically play it for more than about thirty minutes at a time."

Head of Testing: "You don't say..."

Tester 1: "Yeah. I think if we were to make-"

Head of Testing: "A large stand that sits on a table, freeing up both hands to use the controls! Brilliant idea!" *runs out of room*

Tester 1: "... some minor changes to the controls..."

Tester 2: "I hate this place."

I'd like to know: how have your experiences with the controls been?

I really am fascinated, because I have no idea how someone could hold the system such that their hand actually cramps up. Especially after only thirty minutes.

mike1921:
You're failing to acknowledge that it's also trying to be funny by being mean

And you're failing to acknowledge how this is directly counter-productive to being a game critic; which was the original argument you're trying to defend.

I already know that Yahtzee isn't really a game critic in practice anymore; he's more like the host of a celebrity roast.

Atmos Duality:

I already know that Yahtzee isn't really a game critic in practice anymore; he's more like the host of a celebrity roast.

This. 1000x this.

Atmos Duality:

mike1921:
You're failing to acknowledge that it's also trying to be funny by being mean

And you're failing to acknowledge how this is directly counter-productive to being a game critic; which was the original argument you're trying to defend.

I already know that Yahtzee isn't really a game critic in practice anymore; he's more like the host of a celebrity roast.

Than how about you explain it because I see no reason they would be mutually exclusive

Normally I take Yahtzee reviews with a grain of salt (particularly Nintendo ones), but he makes a lot of valid points here in between the Nintendo-bashing. As an adult male with manly-sized hands, holding the console in the necessary position causes cramping after less than an hour. I'm also like Yahtzee in that I prefer sitting on the couch or bed while playing my handhelds, not that the stand makes a damn bit of a difference (still get cramped hands). People say you get used to it, but even after seven hours I still can't adjust.

The 3D effects are amazing, but there's usually so much going onscreen at once that it's hard to see and avoid attacks, making the levels harder than they ought to be, and Pit's tendency to dash around really does cause a lot of falling into chasms.

I can't play through more than one or two missions before putting the game down, and I haven't picked it back up since two days after I bought the damn thing. It's nice for burning a few minutes here and there, but it isn't the must-have game I was hoping for. So far the only 3DS games I've bought that I don't regret are Mario Kart and 3D Land. I have a lot of loyalty for Nintendo, but lately they really have been disappointing.

mike1921:

Than how about you explain it because I see no reason they would be mutually exclusive

If you're attempting to review something for the sake of being informative, why should anyone care what you say if what you say is not meant to be taken seriously?

It's like treating the Colbert Report as a source of credible information.

Skweebl:
Normally I take Yahtzee reviews with a grain of salt (particularly Nintendo ones), but he makes a lot of valid points here in between the Nintendo-bashing. As an adult male with manly-sized hands, holding the console in the necessary position causes cramping after less than an hour. I'm also like Yahtzee in that I prefer sitting on the couch or bed while playing my handhelds, not that the stand makes a damn bit of a difference (still get cramped hands). People say you get used to it, but even after seven hours I still can't adjust.

The 3D effects are amazing, but there's usually so much going onscreen at once that it's hard to see and avoid attacks, making the levels harder than they ought to be, and Pit's tendency to dash around really does cause a lot of falling into chasms.

I can't play through more than one or two missions before putting the game down, and I haven't picked it back up since two days after I bought the damn thing. It's nice for burning a few minutes here and there, but it isn't the must-have game I was hoping for. So far the only 3DS games I've bought that I don't regret are Mario Kart and 3D Land. I have a lot of loyalty for Nintendo, but lately they really have been disappointing.

Here's a little guide that helped me, maybe it will help you. My apologies for the language/attitude therein, I didn't write it.

Atmos Duality:

mike1921:

Than how about you explain it because I see no reason they would be mutually exclusive

If you're attempting to review something for the sake of being informative, why should anyone care what you say if what you say is not meant to be taken seriously?

It's like treating the Colbert Report as a source of credible information.

I like how it's black or white apparently. Either something is pure comedy, not meant to be taken seriously at all, or it's totally serious boring critique. Like seriously, you can't just use human judgement and tell that some lines are jokes and some aren't?

Grey Day for Elcia:
The Nintendo fanboys en mass here, I see. You can always pick them out--they're the ones fighting tooth and nail to justify obviously broken mechanics, as if not doing so would cause their deity to commit suicide. Would admitting something is dumb be all that hard? Come now.

"Controls do suck, yeah. You can change them, but it's a shame you even have to. I still really enjoyed the game on a whole." - Not a fanboy/girl

"The controls are fine. You're just bad. Why not go into the menu and set them all yourself? Game is awesome." Fanboy.

And the anti-fanboys en mass here as well. You can always pick them out--they're the ones fighting supporters with flawed reasoning, as if to make themselves look better than their peers. Would understanding the concept of an opinion and different experiences be all that hard? Come now.

Sometimes the problem lies in the controls and sometimes the problem lies in how one is handling the controls. Labeling one side as a fanboy doesn't make much sense.

mike1921:

I like how it's black or white apparently. Either something is pure comedy, not meant to be taken seriously at all, or it's totally serious boring critique. Like seriously, you can't just use human judgement and tell that some lines are jokes and some aren't?

I'm sorry, I get a little miffed when the Escapist forums employ their ridiculous Double Standards just to defend Yahtzee's "honor".

Counter-argue against Yahtzee's "serious points" and you get called a fanboy or someone who can't take a joke. So now which is it? Is it a joke? Or is he serious? Because any single point can't be both (different points can, I know).

The user I quoted claimed that anyone defending the controls was a fanboy, when that was a point to be contested.

You're correct: Different points don't have to be black and white, comedic and serious.

Using my own judgment for this episode, it's impossible for me to take Yahtzee seriously as a "game critic" when he glossed over virtually the entire game he's supposed to be reviewing so he can focus on making comedic hyperbole about a piece of plastic that absolutely NOBODY uses.

Madmanonfire:
Sometimes the problem lies in the controls and sometimes the problem lies in how one is handling the controls. Labeling one side as a fanboy doesn't make much sense.

Lol. "The controls aren't the problem, see. It's your human hands that aren't working properly. Controls are fine."

I couldn't possibly care less about this game (I barely even remember it exists until someone brings it up) and I have no vested interest in Nintendo at all (besides making the best game ever, also known as Pokemon: Crystal Version, Nintendo is about as relevant to my life as the number of freckles on, say, your neighbor's mum's face) so I've got absolutely no reason to care if this game is shit or the best thing ever. As it stands, however, it's shit and the controls aren't just broken and an inane hassle, no, no, no. The controls are just plain dumb. When almost every single review on the market says "Boy, these controls sure do blow donkey penis, and this peripheral is about as great," you know you've made a massive mistake.

Also, you say anti-fanboy like it's a bad thing. Like being against blind worship of corporate brands that couldn't care less about your individual opinion or existence, despite your continued and slavish defense of their every action, is something of a negativity. I say anti-fanboy the same way I say anti-idiot or anti-racist. Sony, Microsoft, Nintendo, EA, Activision--whatever your brand is, I don't give one tiny drop of care. Make an idiotic decision and get called out on it. You don't have to be against something to point out how mindbogglingly stupid brand fetishes are.

If you wanna call me an anti-fanboy, I'll wear the badge right next to my heart for the whole world to see. I'll wear it with pride.

Let's put it this way. Yahtzee seems to like Nintendo a lot less than a great deal of people. In fact, why am I even here? We have so little in common I'm certain. I even said I wouldn't watch anymore after the Skyward Sword stuff. Today hasn't been a good day, and I'm doing things that I normally wouldn't do. Been a very bad day. And I've had a break from the Escapist for a week... is it?

I'm looking forward to the game, anyway. And it also addresses complains from fans about being "sick of the same characters". And "wanting new IP". Kid Icarus isn't new IP, but it certainly isn't Mario.

One of the reasons I like Nintendo is I LIKE their characters. I'm a fan of their characters. If anything, I'd like to see more of the Koopalings. Or see Goombella or Lady Bow make a return. But for those who aren't as entrenched in liking Nintendo characters as I have been since I was like 9 years old and attempting to play Mario with my legos, Kid Icarus certain gives that.

I won't doubt that it has some gameplay flaws, I haven't even played it yet. But I am looking forward to doing so. It's a Nintendo game, that gameplay can't be abyssal or anything. Nintendo does make good games. And Yahtzee, at the very least, doesn't have that great of a track record for reviewing good Nintendo games. If Skyward Sword is a pile of crud to Yahtzee, surely Kid Icarus can't be that bad.

Also, yes. I'm a Nintendo "fangirl". I don't see what's so bad about that. It's not like they don't make good games. Or that I wouldn't accept a reasonable criticism.

Nintendo has blown goats for the better part of two decades now. All they do is recycle tired ideas from their glory days in the late 80s and early 90s. The SNES was the last really good console they produced. Everything since then has been varying degrees of shit.

Let's see...

N64: used cartridges instead of discs so it couldn't handle the modern games that were coming out on the PS and PC at the time

GC: got clobbered by the PS2 and had almost nothing that would appeal to anyone over the age of 10. Pretty well dead by late 2003.

Wii: a gimmick that fizzled out and that used disgustingly out of date hardware (Nintendo apparently learned nothing from the N64)

Enlong:

Ddgafd:
I want to defend this game, but I feel like it's a losing battle. Yes, the controls are ass. Though you can change them, they're still ass. Best I came up with is using the ABXY buttons to move the reticle. The humor is admittedly childish as hell and some of the nods to other games made me cringe, like the Metroid one for example. Also, I'm pretty sure there's a dick joke in the second level or maybe I'm just going nuts(har har). One thing I will defend is that the game looks and sounds fantastic and the weapon system is wonderfully complex. Not too easy, but not too difficult either if you know what you're doing. I guess the game has a certain charm to it, which allows me to look past some of it's flaws and appreciate it as a great game. I can see why some wouldn't like it, however. The controls are very off-putting.

How can you play the game with ABXY for the reticle? There's no way it controls as quickly as spinning the camera with the touch screen.

Because I'm badass. That, and it just feels unpleasant having to use two buttons that are so close to eachother and then having to use the touch screen as well. It feels cramped and doesn't do any favors for my fingers either. ABXY for the reticle just feels so much better, even thought it is somewhat clunky and inaccurate.

Atmos Duality:

Grey Day for Elcia:

He's a critic; It's his job to be critical and to critique video games.

*chuckles*
Which is why he immediately begins with an ad-hominem against the game's audience, and not just the game itself. "A shitty game for twats".

Let me break this shit down for you:

+Simply disagreeing with his opinion? "Not fanboyism."
It's perfectly rational to give reasons why as long as you aren't acting like a tool. (see next point)

+Getting pissed off just because someone doesn't like a game that you do?
Insecure and childish. "Fanboy."

+When the critic tells you that you're inferior/stupid/etc solely because you like something they don't?
That isn't a review, it's just trolling.

Exactly. And as for the people who say he does it to be entertaining, then why does he dedicate Tuesdays to writing up articles justifying his opinion and why we're all wrong to disagree with him?

I'm looking forward to the game, anyway. And it also addresses complains from fans about being "sick of the same characters". And "wanting new IP". Kid Icarus isn't new IP, but it certainly isn't Mario.

One of the reasons I like Nintendo is I LIKE their characters. I'm a fan of their characters. If anything, I'd like to see more of the Koopalings. Or see Goombella or Lady Bow make a return. But for those who aren't as entrenched in liking Nintendo characters as I have been since I was like 9 years old and attempting to play Mario with my legos, Kid Icarus certain gives that.

I won't doubt that it has some gameplay flaws, I haven't even played it yet. But I am looking forward to doing so. It's a Nintendo game, that gameplay can't be abyssal or anything. Nintendo does make good games. And Yahtzee, at the very least, doesn't have that great of a track record for reviewing good Nintendo games. If Skyward Sword is a pile of crud to Yahtzee, surely Kid Icarus can't be that bad.

Thank you. Also, would Yahtzee rather have this instead: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yVjNHvkLRVU

No I'm not kidding, Factor 5 actually thought making Pit into a Kratos wannabe would be a good idea to pitch to Nintendo. Thank god that company went under and we dodged a bullet there. Kid Icarus has always been a lighthearted game to begin with. You don't take a Greek inspired game about an angel shooting eggplant men and turn it into another God of War knockoff.

I don't think Yahtzee would have preferred that. It would have gotten the "LIKE GOD OF WAR BUT" stamp inside of 2 minutes.

Atmos Duality:

mike1921:

I like how it's black or white apparently. Either something is pure comedy, not meant to be taken seriously at all, or it's totally serious boring critique. Like seriously, you can't just use human judgement and tell that some lines are jokes and some aren't?

I'm sorry, I get a little miffed when the Escapist forums employ their ridiculous Double Standards just to defend Yahtzee's "honor".

Counter-argue against Yahtzee's "serious points" and you get called a fanboy or someone who can't take a joke. So now which is it? Is it a joke? Or is he serious? Because any single point can't be both (different points can, I know).

The user I quoted claimed that anyone defending the controls was a fanboy, when that was a point to be contested.

You're correct: Different points don't have to be black and white, comedic and serious.

Using my own judgment for this episode, it's impossible for me to take Yahtzee seriously as a "game critic" when he glossed over virtually the entire game he's supposed to be reviewing so he can focus on making comedic hyperbole about a piece of plastic that absolutely NOBODY uses.

"A shit game for twats" is obviously a joke, trying to contrast with his rant about people calling him biased, is what I'm saying. What I had an objection to was you calling it an ad hominen when that point was clearly there as a joke. Like no one's going to say Yahtzee was joking about saying the controls are shit. They might say something stupid like you must be a fanboy to like the controls though.

But his main point about the peripheral is that the controls suck and he doesn't spend all that long talking about it either.

mike1921:

"A shit game for twats" is obviously a joke, trying to contrast with his rant about people calling him biased, is what I'm saying.

And I might have believed you if he hadn't lashed out against criticism before; or how he spends time attempting to seriously refute criticism ab the commentary he makes 5 days later.

(incidentally, I find his articles to be far better than his videos since he actually goes into WHY rather than just saying "It's shit because I say so.")

Joke it may be, I did not find it witty or amusing, not even in an ironic sort of way.

What I had an objection to was you calling it an ad hominen when that point was clearly there as a joke. Like no one's going to say Yahtzee was joking about saying the controls are shit. They might say something stupid like you must be a fanboy to like the controls though.

Same points as above. I don't feel like repeating myself.

But his main point about the peripheral is that the controls suck and he doesn't spend all that long talking about it either.

He didn't spend all that long talking about the game either. *shrugs*
"Controls are shit, dialog is shit. You're twats for liking it."

Take objection with it as you like, I'm past trying to convince you at this point.
I didn't find it terribly funny, and I don't take any of his videos as legitimate reviews.

EDIT: I don't feel like bumping this crap again, but I do feel like blowing off steam.

Except he sorta did, gives you an idea of what the menu looks like (if you played SSBB),explained that if he is missing something with the 3D he doesn't care, Controls are shit because you need to do X Y and Z to do something and are so bad they have a peripheral for it, explains the game from a plot perspective ,Screen is cluttered, Dialog is shit, specifically the humor is shit because it is of X style, And the amount of menus inbetween levels are ridiculous . Sounds like enough content for a review to me and not "it's shit because I say so".

Oooh! The menu looks like SSBB! It's almost like...this game had the same producer as SSBB.
More on the menu later.
[NOT REVIEW]

The controls are indeed problematic, but for *NONE* of the reasons he gave, and his alternative suggestion would make the controls even worse. In fact, I'd say the controls are about as good as they're going to get for any kind of "shooter" without actually redesigning the 3DS to include two extra shoulder buttons on the back and a second analog nub.

Heart of the problem: The 3DS is a poor platform to design any sort of shooters for. His complaint is valid, but his reasoning is not.

Why not tap to fire? For starters, you cripple your stylus-hand tapping the screen like a fucking woodpecker (it's happened before in other DS titles; notably, Metroid Prime: Hunters), but the biggest problem is the camera.
Using the L-button to fire frees up your stylus hand so you can turn, move AND fire at the same time; y'know, kind of how you do in any other "shooter" game.

However, if you link firing to tapping, you are now firing every time you move the camera (since you have no choice but to touch the screen to turn the camera). Far more messy; really screws up Charged Shots and thrown Items. Keeping the stylus on the screen is much easier when you're on the go too.
[ACTUAL REVIEW, BARELY, POOR REASONING]

He described the style writing/dialog in only the vaguest terms possible: "Comedic, self-referential". Having re-watched the video, it's clear that he doesn't like it. Fine. He doesn't have to. It just gets glossed over anyway; no details or examples.
[NOT REVIEW]

As for the pacing "Episodes are short because..<joke>"...it's a hand-held. Content is episodic because it's assumed you're playing it on the go; it needs to be long enough to hold your attention, but short enough that you won't miss much by packing it up when real-life beckons.
[ACTUAL REVIEW, POOR REASONING]

He complained about the menu when there is absolutely nothing wrong with it.
It's very easy to find whatever you need in a timely manner.

The single player story and preparation is kept in its own menu, the multiplayer is kept in its own menu, the Unlockable Fluff is kept in its own menu. All of them are at most TWO button presses away from each other.
Equipping/Fusing weapons is no more complicated than picking the type you want, going "Yeah, I want that one" and clicking on it. You can even demo weapons to see what they do right there from the same menu. Convenience! What a sin!
There is NO rational reason to rag on it except for the sake of hyperbolic comedy.
[NOT REVIEW.]

The peripheral+controls argument (which he spends a solid minute ragging on altogether, yes, I counted) is again, a point of comedic hyperbole; in reality, nobody uses it. I do mean fucking NOBODY.
[NOT REVIEW]

His most valid points about the controls: the dodge function is pretty obnoxious and prone to getting you into trouble in any of the more precarious locations.
[ACTUAL REVIEW]

So yeah, that might be good enough of a "review" for you, but I have to question whether you can even call this a "review" when he spends 3/4ths of the time doing naught be spinning hyperbole and calling his audience twats.

Atmos Duality:
And I might have believed you if he hadn't lashed out against criticism before; or how he spends time attempting to seriously refute criticism ab the commentary he makes 5 days later.

(incidentally, I find his articles to be far better than his videos since he actually goes into WHY rather than just saying "It's shit because I say so.")

Joke it may be, I did not find it witty or amusing, not even in an ironic sort of way

Some criticism is stupid and you should lash out against it, and some criticism deserves serious refutation or is at least annoying and stupid enough to make you want to

He didn't spend all that long talking about the game either. *shrugs*
"Controls are shit, dialog is shit. You're twats for liking it."

Except he sorta did, gives you an idea of what the menu looks like (if you played SSBB),explained that if he is missing something with the 3D he doesn't care, Controls are shit because you need to do X Y and Z to do something and are so bad they have a peripheral for it, explains the game from a plot perspective ,Screen is cluttered, Dialog is shit, specifically the humor is shit because it is of X style, And the amount of menus inbetween levels are ridiculous . Sounds like enough content for a review to me and not "it's shit because I say so".

Having watched Zero Punctuation "BACK IN THE DAY" when there were only two episodes on Youtube (Fable and something else), I can say that not really much has changed today. There are some legitimate issues, but they are mostly very old issues that even a few people expressed "BACK IN THE DAY".

Back then the novelty of the show and the smaller following kept people loyal, even if they didn't agree.

Now that the show has "hit it big", the older devoted following has mostly taken to attacking apparent flaws of the show (that they honestly just never noticed in the first place or didn't care about when it wasn't mainstream).

You will see people do this with literally everything ever everywhere. I haven't taken Sociology, but this sounds like pretty basic stuff.

I don't even know why they made another Kid Icarus game. Did you play the one for NES? That game sucked ass. There's one part where you go into a door and there's just nothing there, just an empty room with no music even. What the hell was that about?

Nintendo needs to stop screwing around and release a solid game again. The last one I can remember is Mario Galaxy. Twilight Princess was such a disappointment. It was totally rushed and lacked all of the little things that made Ocarina such a great game because Nintendo just doesn't seem to really "get it" anymore. It almost seems like all these new games weren't designed by Nintendo, but by the creepy basement dwellers who write fanfiction sequels and draw pictures of Princess Peach getting eaten out by Captain Falcon.

No shocker that the 3DS causes physical pain to play. I played wii boxing for two weeks, and thought my arms were going to fall off. Most people who haven't experienced this would say "oh you must be fat and lazy to say that." Go ahead try it. See how much "fun" it is. The reality is when you try to punch, kick, or move without facing equal resistance (AKA gym equipment) you will have an equal and opposite force acted on from the contraction of your muscles that in no way counter balances but doubles to stress on your joints. obviously with the 3DS its a sedentary problem but a similar concept. So I find it a pretty predictable that nintendo would once again sacrifice life and limb for their games......literally. And lets face it fan boys. The only real reason to buy a nintendo 3DS is to play the newest pokemon (which are mostly throwbacks to red and blue as well.) Flame on all you want.

zeit:
I don't even know why they made another Kid Icarus game. Did you play the one for NES? That game sucked ass. There's one part where you go into a door and there's just nothing there, just an empty room with no music even. What the hell was that about?

Can you describe what the room looked like? Because that may have been a hot spring.

CapitalistPig:
No shocker that the 3DS causes physical pain to play. I played wii boxing for two weeks, and thought my arms were going to fall off. Most people who haven't experienced this would say "oh you must be fat and lazy to say that." Go ahead try it. See how much "fun" it is. The reality is when you try to punch, kick, or move without facing equal resistance (AKA gym equipment) you will have an equal and opposite force acted on from the contraction of your muscles that in no way counter balances but doubles to stress on your joints. obviously with the 3DS its a sedentary problem but a similar concept. So I find it a pretty predictable that nintendo would once again sacrifice life and limb for their games......literally. And lets face it fan boys. The only real reason to buy a nintendo 3DS is to play the newest pokemon (which are mostly throwbacks to red and blue as well.) Flame on all you want.

You... do know that there aren't any 3DS Pokémon games, right?

I mean, unless you count Pokédex 3D, but that's not a game, it's just a free glossary app. There aren't any pokémon games in the main series released, or even announced, for the system just yet.

There are plenty of games on the system for which I got the thing. This game is one of them, and I haven't been so satisfied with a game purchase since Kingdom Hearts: Birth By Sleep, Monster Hunter Tri, or Tales of Symphonia.

The Wii Boxing tangent literally has nothing to do with any issues the 3DS might have. Whatever damage a punching motion into air carries, it doesn't have anything to do with the motions used to move the stylus. Especially since the stylus is placed on a screen which does act as a surface to resist your motions, so the analogy doesn't work, even on a smaller scale. And if it's a problem with the way the system is held, I once again direct you to this little guide.

Of course, if you're only trying to incite anger from people, might I suggest making your messages a bit less transparent? If you do a bit more research, people will be more prone to get angry than they are to just point out mistakes in the argument, because they will have no other option. One final note; ellipses are three dots. Any more than that only fits into the realm of Sweet Bro and Hella Jeff.

-Dragmire-:

Was never a big fan of the gamecube controller.

I always found the Gamecube controller slightly awkward to use. I know, it sounds strange but I played A LOT of games for the snes, PS1 and PS2 before getting a gamecube so my natural thumb position was resting in the middle of the four buttons and I roll my thumb toward the button I'm going to use. The gamecube controller just doesn't really mesh well with that method of playing and I didn't like the position of the x and y buttons, I understand why they were positioned there but again, it didn't work very naturally to me. The L and R buttons also felt doughy... if that makes sense, wasn't that big of an issue until I played Paper Mario: the Thousand Year Door, where mashing the R button was required. I did get used to it but it never feels as natural as the controllers that followed the snes's button layout.

Most of my friends naturally hold a controller with their thumb in what I call a 'hook' position, they all love the gamecube controller.


There's more to it than that.

My dealings with the subject:

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/jump/9.320902.13120238

Bad controls, quite good everything else. I would recommend it to my friends if anyone of them actually had a 3ds.

CapitalistPig:
No shocker that the 3DS causes physical pain to play. I played wii boxing for two weeks, and thought my arms were going to fall off.

Believe me, I know the feeling. the other sports are much less taxing, though. However, you're talking about the Wii here, and this is a completely different system. Your argument is invalid.

Most people who haven't experienced this would say "oh you must be fat and lazy to say that." Go ahead try it. See how much "fun" it is. The reality is when you try to punch, kick, or move without facing equal resistance (AKA gym equipment) you will have an equal and opposite force acted on from the contraction of your muscles that in no way counter balances but doubles to stress on your joints.

No sarcasm here, I appreciate the little science lesson. I already knew that, but knowing that you know why it's the case is pretty cool.

obviously with the 3DS its a sedentary problem but a similar concept. So I find it a pretty predictable that nintendo would once again sacrifice life and limb for their games......literally.

The 3DS does not feature motion control except for the Gyroscope, which thankfully takes a backseat to touchscreen and button controls, both of which avert the wii boxing problem due to the resistance offered by the 3DS itself. If you're talking about the 3D, it's not painful at all to play in 3D and even so, it is completely optional. The 3D also takes a backseat to the 3DS's astounding hardware. The name is just a pun and the 3D is more easily marketable than the processing power and graphics.

And lets face it fan boys. The only real reason to buy a nintendo 3DS is to play the newest pokemon (which are mostly throwbacks to red and blue as well.) Flame on all you want.

I'm not the one flaming here. There haven't been any main series Pokemon games on the 3DS yet; actually, the newest ones coming out (Black 2 and White 2) will be on the DS. Yes, I look forward to playing Pokemon on my 3DS. However, there's so much more. This game is a pretty damn good reason to get a 3DS, in my book it is fantastic. There's also Mario 3D Land, Mario Kart 7, updated rereleases of Ocarina of Time and Starfox 64, and upcoming games like New Super Mario Bros 2. As the next generation of Nintendo handhelds, all of Nintendo's IPs will take the jump to 3DS, and even that doesn't appear to be all, judging from this game. The possibilities of playing a handheld game of one of those IPs with this kind of power, including graphics comparable to the Wii, (without the 3D activated) is a very valid reason to get a 3DS. Cry fanboy all you want, but you're the one flaming here, not me.

Maybe you people should realize that just because Yahtzee doesn't like a game you do, it's not a personal attack on you. I played the game and liked it. Yahtzee brought up some valid points, but I still enjoyed the game. Maybe if you were a real fan you would actually play the game instead of rushing onto a forum to spout vitriol at some guy who has a different opinion from you.

Good review by the way, best one for a couple of weeks now.

Dresos:
Bad controls, quite good everything else. I would recommend it to my friends if anyone of them actually had a 3ds.

Would you recommend it to a complete stranger on the interwebs. Like me? I'm usually quite picky about bad controls.

fenrirvii:
ok first of all, it's really hard to make the argument that the controls are so bad when we already SAW the same type of controls being used in Metroid Prime: Hunters and the Zelda games on the DS... It's the SAME HAND POSITION! Why KI:U is the first game to really get bashed for these controls makes no sense.
The controls are slightly different because it's a 3rd person shooter, so you swipe the touch screen to rotate the camera, but the swiping mechanics have the best customization options in the game..

This is just a hypothesis, but maybe the weight of the 3DS is a factor? It is noticably heavier than the old DS Lite (and maybe the i and LL too).

I love the game, but the strain on my wrist does tend to limit me to short bursts of a single level at a time.

1nfinite_Cros5:

Dresos:
Bad controls, quite good everything else. I would recommend it to my friends if anyone of them actually had a 3ds.

Would you recommend it to a complete stranger on the interwebs. Like me? I'm usually quite picky about bad controls.

They're not bad in a "makes the game not work well" way. The problem is more of a "your wrist might start hurting after a while" problem.

1nfinite_Cros5:

Dresos:
Bad controls, quite good everything else. I would recommend it to my friends if anyone of them actually had a 3ds.

Would you recommend it to a complete stranger on the interwebs. Like me? I'm usually quite picky about bad controls.

I would, the controls aren't a dealbreaker unless you intend to play through the game in one go.

Shamanic Rhythm:

totally heterosexual:
Medusa is really fappable now though.

Medusa is literally the LAST person you would want to fap to.

Seriously, think about it.

....

My god. You sir, are an absolute genius.

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