Skyward Sword

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Razhem:

And my point completely and utterly went over your head. It's not the control is "bad", it's that you aren't familiar with it and you are having a hard time adapting to it since you are already entrenched in normal pad is better because it's what you have known for years and you have no intention whatsoever to learn something new. It's the reason why people who never played videgames get confused as fuck with a normal controller but get the wii mote a lot quicker. Hell, I started using mouse and keyboard very late in my life and I felt it was shit for me till I actually got the hang of it. It's not about "BETTAR" it's about learning to play again.

It didnt go over my head, you are saying its another way of inputting commands and needs learning, like a guitar hero controller. Im not disputing that.

Im saying that when I press "A" to strafe, click the mouse to fire, Press Y to fierce punch etc. there is only one way of doing it. If I press A the game will register that as long as I pressed the key/button, 100% of the time. That is precision. I dont get that with a wii mote etc. No one whos played motion controls for any length of time can say that every motion was registered 100% of the time.

Everyone can "slash left" for example if they have arms but currently the tech will not pick it up 100% of the time. That is my issue with motion controls. I want to know that by pressing "A" that x will happen immediately. I don't get that with any of this gens motion controls, that why I'm not sold on it.

Meh Its alright, don't see how its the worst, but...Well actually most of the Zelda games beat it...I guess he might be right!? In 3D terms at least.

Some good points in this one, I found Skyward Sword to be inferior to Wind Waker and Twilight Princess (also known as the interesting one and the classic redone right). The control scheme isn't an issue for me but I do find it needlessly frustrating and it seems like they slowed the pace down to pad it out. I have a lot of games on my plate right now and this one isn't really giving me any great reasons to play it.

Majora's Mask is still the worst one.

SS is OK to mediocre. Not great, not terrible. Has some clever and epic moments, has really dull sequences. Motion controls were OK aside from swimming and sometimes the bird view would freak out for some reason. But there's plenty to gripe about besides controls.

I can't see myself replaying it for awhile just due to the tedious travel time and retracing of steps. Seriously, you go up and down that volcano like 5-6 times. No one can defend padding like the tadpoles or using that dumb robot to carry things everywhere. Not being able to teleport between statues in a region is really frustrating. Before the last boss I saved, checked the time, went to Skyloft, refilled the potions, flew back, went back in time, saved before the last boss, and that took over 10 minutes. My final first time completion was about 35 hours but it felt like it should've really been a 15-20 hour game. If this was on the N64 I'd say it was because of cartridge limitations.

General negative points I noticed:

Here's an argument without end: which has a worse, more player hating overworld, this or WW? SS's is smaller but in WW you can eventually unlock instant teleports.

SS has very low enemy variety. 90% of the time you're fighting some form of bokoblin, keese, or chuchu jelly. Even in the very last dungeons of the entire game. There are no Like Likes, Wizzrobes, Iron Knuckles, Poes, Dodongos, Tektites, Bubbles, Wallmasters, Moldorms, Helmasaurs...and many others. Not that they had to copy-paste, just examples of what they left out from Zelda's now huge bestiary. The only cool new enemy I remember were the electric snails and the 3-headed hydras. But there's like 3 of the latter in the entire game. I guess they couldn't think of other sword direction gimmicks.

The music is probably the weakest of any Zelda game I've ever played. The only memorable ones were remixes. And the best remixes, like in TP, weren't even used (inexplicably) until the credits. There were some good boss ones with ominous Latin chanting and the little ditty when charging against the horde rush at the end. The main theme used in trailers is good but where was it in the game? Nothing from the main zones were memorable for me.

Two fire temples, really? And in the last one the big item lets you dig into 2D mazes and fight those dumb worm enemies like 10 times. No thanks.

Rolling bombs will give you early onset arthritis.

Everything after the third dungeon until the fourth killed the plot momentum.

Link's hat STILL clips through his shield.

Post Ocarina, in general, 3D Zelda dungeons seem to be getting worse. In TP and SS you pretty much always have 1 key at a time. Heck, there's barely ever more than one key in the entire dungeon. It feels very linear. And the rooms just aren't that interesting in many instances. When I think of OoT I think of that giant room filled with blades and invisible moving platforms from the Shadow Temple or the Spirit Temple filled with beamos and spiketraps or falling 1000 feet in the Fire Temple. Gone are little mechanics or action rooms like collecting silver rupees while avoiding obstacles or activating a timed switch and rarely are rooms full of enemies to kill. Plus in OoT and WW you can have a lot of different items mapped to buttons at once. In TP and SS it's one at a time, which really kills how complicated environmental interactions can be. It's just enter room, use item on environmental doodaad Y, open door.

This is a minor one, but I hated Link's ragged breathing and gasping after running 10 feet. If you were in the next room it'd sound like I was watching a porno.

Fighting The Imprisoned 3x...and the last two were very close to each other if you chose the forest first (like I did).

Pluses:

Often times optional, but better NPC arcs than most Zeldas.
The first dungeon's aesthetics: glowing mushrooms, white grass, spiderwebs everywhere, the blueish fog. And then you get the beetle.
Everything with the robot captain on the way to and including the pirate ship.
Anything with time crystals put a smile on my face what with seeing the world transform into its former glory. The sand ocean was trippy.
The trials changed up the gameplay and made you feel helpless. I particularly enjoyed seeing the starting town area sucked into this alternate dimension.
The fourth dungeon with the harsh demarcation of a happy, serene golden Buddhist temple with gentle flowing water vs. the purple Hades basement filled with zombies.
The action packed sequence leading to the desert dragon.
You could make the case that Ghirahim spent 90% of his time complaining about his own incompetence and he stole what could be real boss battles, but he was certainly interesting and not your generic bad guy. I loved his hammy lines and overdramatic gestures.
Last couple boss fights/areas were intense (ZERG RUSH!)

I feel like you could trace the noobification of gaming just by looking at Zelda starting areas.

LoZ: Has the attitude of "die in a fire player!" Bomb these walls that look the same as any other wall. Good luck making sense of these maze like dungeons where everything looks the same.

ALttP: 60 seconds in and you're killing enemies and collecting treasure. Signs and your dying Uncle provide control tips.

OoT: Does a good job considering it was one of the first 3D dungeon crawling action-adventure games. The first town explains new mechanics like z-targeting or all the various sword/dodging maneuvers and it only takes like 10 minutes. And if you want you can just skip that stuff, grab your junk, and head to the first area. The entire game suffers from inexcusable text crawl speed though.

WW: Similar to OoT. Your sis is kidnapped pretty soon. You have to learn moves from the dojo guy though.

Twilight: The beginning is bogged down by tons of required tutorials, mini-games, and sidequests. "GOAT IN!" two times, really? Just because this teaches you how to randomly kill the boss 30 hours later? Ugh, sooo slow. Just thinking about TP's start makes me not want to touch it again.

SS: Many required cinemas, tutorials on everything, Fi literally halts all gameplay to tell you very simple things from beginning to end (Navi always got a lot of flack but she only did that in the Deku tree; after that she barely talked for the rest of the game). It's a solid two hours of blather before your first dungeon.

I don't so much count this as a game, more of a mod.

And it's as good as the first one. Which is... good... by 1980's standards. Positively under-average by today's standards. Us 2012'ers have a horrible tendency to expect quality and innovation in our products. This provided none of them, and as I said earlier, the product that has none of them, has been done before, only it was appreciated more back then...

So by contrast, I neither want to buy it. Play it. Look upon it. Nor speak any further of this shallow remake.

Flunk:

Majora's Mask is still the worst one.

Ohhhh thank you! I never understood the praise that thing got. I liked the dark atmosphere, but my GOD was it boring and stupid! Masks? Come on.

Mr. Omega:
On the motion controls thing: just him complaining.

On the comparisons to the other games: fair enough, a very subjective matter, but fair enough.

On the padding examples: Agreed wholeheartedly, especially on the examples give. The entire "Song of the Hero" part of the game can go fuck itself.

However, in the "defend that" claim, I'll just simply use the cover-all excuse that Skyrim fanboys use "Well I have a lot of fun with the rest of the game!" Yes, it's overgeneralizing, but the puzzles were great, the combat was fun, and the characters and story were interesting. Yes, there were some pointless fetch quests, but the rest of the game was fun. And that's why I enjoyed it. And with the exception of the complaining about the controls (when you compare damn near every other reviewer in the industry and video evidence against a person who has gone out of their way to express his hatred of motion controls who seems more reliable?) there were good points, like the padding around the end of the game and Fi being ungodly annoying.

Actually, on the 'Who seems more reliable' point, I would still put a crazy guy up against paid reviewers and YouTube videos. But that's just me.

itsmeyouidiot:

Hal10k:

itsmeyouidiot:

Name them.

The "flaws" that Mr. Crosshaw mentioned aren't flaws at all, because I did not notice them and they did not hinder my enjoyment in any way whatsoever.

If you didn't notice them, that doesn't mean that they don't exist. It just means you didn't notice them, or didn't consider them to be flaws. Because you're a different person. Who has different opinions. That are different from Yahtzee's. Which are also different. Because you're different people.

Having a different opinion is one thing, but saying nothing but the meanest and cruelest insults imaginable is another.

There's a common saying where I come from, it goes something like: "If you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything at all." Constructive criticism is one thing, but spewing hatred and bile is another thing entirely, and it certainly isn't comedy.

Imagine that I verbally ripped everything you hold dear to shreds. How exactly would anyone in their right mind find that funny?

Oh, and I wanted to take some special time out of my day to tell you that you need to grow some balls.

I ain't trolling, but seriously dude, grow up.

Stopped reading at "honestly reviewing".

When did you stop being a comedian and started being a reviewer? Your style does not reflect the claim at all.
And considering how much flasehoods you've spread in earlier ZPs, I doubt you could "honestly review" anything even if you tried.

Don't get too full of yourself.
Just continue doing what you're doing best, namely humourously bashing games and don't pretend to be something that you're not.

> whiny kids wanting free money from people who work harder than them
> courageous opposition to corporate injustice

lol

I liked most of Skyward Sword myself. I hated Fi, how much damn padding there was to get the *SPOILERS*, Fi, how many times you had to "prove yourself" (even if you'd already proven yourself to a character once, chances are you had to do it AGAIN), and finally Fi.

Fuck you, Fi.

I'm sorry but he claims to not be anti nintendo/zelda whatever, but the level of hate that seems to be directed towards nintendo seems to be a lot higher than other games, i don't know weather its playing to a audience (who hate nintendo cause of various reasons) or various other reasons but it is there.

He activly mentions fanboys etc when dealing with nintendo but tends to not bother with other consoles/developers (except JRPG which he admits to hating) and seems to tweak and taunt them more.

Just saying "i'm not anti X" doesn;t mean you are not anti X, just the same as saying "i'm not a fanboy" doesn't mean that you wain't a fanboy.

Nintendo made the classic mistake of confusing puzzles (a Zelda staple) and fetch/grind quests. It's a puzzle when you make the player figure out for themselves (or with some advice from a wise man in a nearby cave/city that you have to put water in that jug you picked up, carry it to the special spot and pour into a receptacle in order to open the door. It might take you a long time to figure it out, but it won't take you a long time to DO once you know how. But making the player repeat the same damn puzzle multiple times in the same area is just grind/fetch crap.

Also, only 3 questing zones? The very first Zelda game had a more open world! Jerks.

There's an element of YMMV to anything. The only item in the review I can truly sympathize with was the wooden, inhuman support character, who only shows a glimmer of character growth at the very end of the game and for whom this growth is as out of character as being expected to have grown fond of what equates to a computer AI. Even the text speed didn't particularly trouble me, since you can hold A to double its scrolling speed. I may be the only person on Earth who has found (by sheer accident, mind you) the precise distance at which to sit from the sensor to get my remote to function perfectly as intended, but that still doesn't change the fact that the motion controls never let me down unless I was being an arse and sitting at my computer chair (a good three feet to the right of the sensor) instead of on the couch (directly in front of it). <.<

Honestly, the only games where motion controls have utterly failed me were Cursed Mountain (starting at about 3/4ths of the way through, suddenly ghosts like to stop registering your movements) and Twilight Princess (the marble rolling game, ugh, and carpol tunnel all around). In any other game, I have difficulty understanding the hatred. Maybe my expectations are lower, but as long as I can make it function in a way which feels effective and efficient to me without also feeling unintuitive, it just doesn't seem like a negative. You tell me that it feels like the opposite of all of these? Then we're evidently not playing the same games. YMMV.

Yahtzee, please stop trying to work the retards of this site up into a frenzy; they don't have the brain power to wipe their noses, they're not going to have the brain power to defend their points of view with anything more than, "well, I liked it, so you should too!" Find a better website to host your videos man, these phlebs don't know how good you really are.

itsmeyouidiot:

Imagine that I verbally ripped everything you hold dear to shreds. How exactly would anyone in their right mind find that funny?

The more salient question, I think, is how anyone in his right mind could consider a game receiving a poor review, even a game he loved... hell, even a game he created... to be "ripping everything they hold dear to shreds."

I share alot of yahtzee's problems with Zelda:SS, but i still can't shake the love for zelda games. They are simple and repetitive, but make me love them cause they mix things in a way that attracts me. I haven't raged over controls, as hard as I did with the wii motion controls, since the original nes and snes. The plot is about as difficult to predict as the halo series. The entire game is more limited than any of the zelda games past OoT (one town, It bugged me through the entire game.. what do these sky knights do?).

However, I loved alot of this games new functions, like the sprint and the boss run (which i have wanted in a zelda game for the longest time, wind waker kinda brought it.)

I like the new zelda as much as i hate it. which puts it below OoT and above TP.

It's a decent enough game, but a terrible Zelda game. It's got too much padding, too much hand holding. It's too difficult for casual players and too simplistic for series veterans. Most games reviewers will have been reviewing it as if the player is a first time Zelda player and scoring it appropriately - Yatzee just picks on the flaws which makes for a better review - if those flaws don't bother you then get the game!

The motion controls are honestly the only thing that keeps the game fresh - especially in the first two dungeons where it's basically Zelda 101 for someone with experience. SO that means it's a good 8 hours before you get to the desert and actually get to play some new stuff (so far all the desert sections have been stand-outs). The motion controls however are still dumbed down. If you want to hit something on the left and then hit it on the right you would bring the sword (or whatever) closer to you in between so that you didn't clip the item on the backswing. This seems impossible in Zelda and they account for this by allowing you to flail after one correct hit. So you carefully time your first strike and then shake the controller as fast as you can to do the actual damage. This means that in certain fights you are penalised for trying to do proper strikes and in others they take longer if you don't flail. Be nice if it allowed you to choose the kids or adults controls. If you didn't enjoy the slice and dice portions then frankly I can't see why you'd want to finish the game.

Fi - rechargeable batteries trigger her annoying personality at about 33% remaining. Usually during boss fights. Down on the D pad summons her. It also re-centres the dodgy camera. Sometimes you want to re-centre the annoying camera and you get annoying Fi instead which just makes you more annoyed. Left and right on the d-pad are not mapped to things because Nintendo thinks you aren't clever enough to cope with that. Sometime Fi tells you how to solve obvious puzzles before you've encountered them. Nintendo PlayTesters must be some of the worst gamers on the planet - oh, that's right, they probably got NON gamers to test it but didn't think to ask us whether we wanted that on or off...

Every time you pick up a new item it puts it away slowly for you. If you play in 30 min sessions with the Treasure Medal on this makes most parts of the game borderline unplayable due to stop start fighting.

I'm off to collect the last song now, which appears to be in three parts, and I just started the level and it told me that due to interference I couldn't even start at my chosen check point. Which is crazy so I saved and quit.

I'd pay extra -EXTRA- for the Ltd. edition soundtrack CD to have contained an unlock code that when put in the Wii allowed you to play a 'pro' version of the game where it was NewGame + difficulty and all the repetitive fetch quest busy work and repeats of dungeons from previous games were cut out. It'd be a nice 15-20 hour romp and i'd probably enjoy the side questing too.

Link's Awakening is the best game in the series still, this is quite probably the worst in terms of what should be capable now (but I was bored by the end of Twilight Princess too, but not this disappointed).

IF this is in your first 3 ever played Zelda games then most of my criticisms will not apply - and I would recommend this as the first 3D zelda played to anyone new starting out.

I will not see replies to this.

Yes you will.

Fi is annoying. That's fine, I don't talk to her that much.

Actually characterising the relationship between Link and Zelda in the first two hours trumps "A wild Zelda appears" that we see in OOT and TP. In my opinion it rivals Wind Waker Zelda.

Motion control: The issue with the game isn't so much that the motion controls are bad but that people are lazy and don't actually think. Yahtzee here got handed a new game mechanic with new controls and proceeded to forget everything he learnt from previous Zelda games.

You know how Moblins tend to be very good at parrying you? It isn't because of lag son, it's because they move to parry you based on where they think the strike is coming from based on your stance. You can observe this, I did. Turns out when the electro moblins show up, you can simply opt to wait out until they attack, backflip and counter when their guard's down. Just like in every other Zelda game. The game rewards being observant, this is a good thing. Motion control is completely appropriate in fights where it's required to win and works very well in most circumstances. Perhaps the bossfight with four swords and a one sided guard could have been handled better, but it was still manageable, I didn't die.

Complaining about the story is at this point willful ignorance of the point. Good guy, bad guy, girl is a trope sure, but that doesn't mean it can't be played differently and hasn't been played differently in Zelda games before. Unless you're saying the plot of Wind Waker is the same as the plot of Twilight Princess and there are no differences in storytelling or the way it pans out. I can explain further in a three page article if you want, I'd rather not, but I'm arguing on a forum so anything's possible.

The NPCs are handled better than in any other Zelda, the upgrades are significantly different from other Zeldas and are handled well in my opinion. Again, if you want examples I'll throw them out.

Ultimately though, when you say "Prove me wrong," basically what you've done is pick a few subjective flaws and claimed that they can be proved wrong. They can't, they're subjective and an opinion, it is likely you will always hold that opinion. I can't prove an opinion wrong because it's a subjective interpretation of facts in front of you. All I can do is say your statement of the facts is incorrect.

The worst part is that I don't think I can even do that here, because I haven't found lag with the sword slashing. I don't think you're a liar, I don't think I'm lying. The fact is, short of an empirical test on lag in Skyward sword's motion control mechanism, there's no definitive answer. Even if we got that, 0.5 sec delay might mean more to you than me because I might be able to compensate for it better than you.

Can you see where I'm going with this? Asking people to prove something unproveable and then feeling smart as they flail around with opinions you're never going to agree with is purposeless and unhelpful. We're not all mouthbreathing fanboys who are blind to Zelda's flaws as you might claim, we just perceive things differently and weigh certain things over others. In my case, I weigh what I perceive to be an engaging story and fun NPC interaction over an annoying sidekick and fetch quests. Hence I will like this Zelda, you view it the other way, so you won't like this Zelda.

Blegh

Haven't played it, never will (although we have a Wii). Just wanted to say this was the best EP for a while. I almost choked on my wine with laughter. Yahtzee made some points about Zelda that apply to many games, so I totally get the points he's making in the broader context. Very fine work, chappy!

monkey_spankin_good:
Yahtzee, please stop trying to work the retards of this site up into a frenzy; they don't have the brain power to wipe their noses, they're not going to have the brain power to defend their points of view with anything more than, "well, I liked it, so you should too!" Find a better website to host your videos man, these phlebs don't know how good you really are.

Yes sir, Seargent Brown Nose, sir!

jackpackage200:
I think yahtzee and i are the only people who hated this game. The game was boring and not fun at all.

EDIT: What sucks is that my friends have been giving me shit for not liking it

You're not. I played it twice and haven't been back. I've played Saint's Row more than Skyward Swords and I hate Grand Theft Auto style games.

I liked it.

Sean951:
But really, complaining about fetch quests in a RPG? Zelda no less? I can't think of a single game that didn't have fetch quests. Getting to them was even easier than most, since all you need is a bird statue.

Well, his point is that there shouldn't be a fetch quest in any RPG, and I wholeheartedly agree. It's these kind of quests that always turn me off from a game when I'm playing it. I want to have fun and be immersed in the story, or be fighting villains I could only think of in my dreams, or be trying to figure out that one damned puzzle that's ACTUALLY PUZZLING. But those all seem to be lacking from Zelda games. Actually, good puzzles seem to be lacking from most puzzle-based games, nowadays.

I personally liked the game, if nothing else but from a nostalgia standpoint. Yes, Zelda is repetitive, but I kinda like it like that, if only for a while. If I need to get away for a weekend and sink myself in nostalgia, Zelda is my first stop. In my opinion, not worth buying unless you're really invested in the series, but worth playing regardless.

I love almost every Zelda game. And Skyward Sword is one of my favorites. I don't mind if Yahtzee doesn't like Skyward Sword. I had a blast playing the game and any negative review doesn't take away the fun I had.

I love Yahtzee's videos even though I can tell our tastes in gaming are probably polar opposites. I really enjoy the word play and how deeply he looks at the games he reviews.

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