Jimquisition: Why Boycotts Fail Where Whining Tantrums Win

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Works for me. Boycotting is just childish. Especially as companies like EA produce or release a huge amount of popular titles. But i get the anger, ive played games or watched a dvd that was shit. But, the people that say "im gonna boycott that company" never do.

Moaning can work and you can still play the games you like. An if you didnt buy the game...then you wouldnt moan and then things wouldnt change. :-) SO BUY.

I think, instead of boycotting. Just rent. Rent from Blockbuster or Lovefilm. You get to play games for cheaper and you save so much money. :-)

Sounds to me like boycotting plus whining would be the real way to go, but I know that's a level of commitment many people (including myself) would have a hard time sustaining.

How effective is lying? I could buy a game and complain about it on the internet as 4173 and send a message as [name redacted] that I boycotted shitty business practice X.

Twice the whining, none of the self-deprivation.

Anyone else feel like this is just stage 1 in Jim creating hiw own army? Step one, tell everyone that complaining is ok. Step 2, escalate and organise. Step C, take over the internets by force.

If so, I'm in because this all makes sense. kneel before thank god for Jim.

I can see your point about boycotts, but the whining thing makes no goddamn sense. Why should Publisher's feel any obligation to listen to whiners who are just going to buy their products anyway? I mean I could see some sense if the whiners threatened to STOP buying their products (as much as that would be an empty threat), but instead it's like "We hated this and that, but we're going to keep mindlessly consuming your shit anyway."

Don't "vote with your wallet" instead "buy yourself a vote\voice" ?

The truth of this videos' thesis makes me incredibly sad. Have really come to a point where acting like a petulant child is the solution to a problem? What the hell video game industry and video game fans? What. The. Hell?!

I completely agree that boycotting won't send the message you want 99% of the time and complaining about your purchase is much more effective.

However, I don't really understand the BioWare/ME3 example. Jim just said that one reason boycotts are bad is that they hit the developer rather than the publisher. But in the case of the ME3 ending[1], isn't that the goal? I mean, the rage here is about the story and not the DRM or anything related to the publishing, right? And that is the developer/BioWare's responsibility, right?

[1] I'm not making any judgments myself as I haven't played the game yet.

Also I find it incredibly depressing that behaving like a 4 year olds actually gets results and that now this behavior is actually being encouraged. *facepalm*

Interesting episode. There is truth in that complaining can be a good method to get your voice out.

But i usually start having a problem with it when it stops being constructive, and turns into a hate filled Godzilla trashing downtown Tokyo. Sure Godzilla's anger my be justifiable, but that point is lost under all the death and destruction he caused. sure your cause gets attention, but your tactics only undermine yourself as negative tactics invoke a negative response. Eventually people will only see the hate and bile, and not the point your trying to make. They'll just roll their eyes and continue what they were doing.

there still is effective methods of complaining. the group that sent 400 cupcakes to Bioware is prime example of this. the notes they had on the boxes where incredibly passive aggressive, only acting as seemingly calm reminders as to why they are doing this. The brunt of the message, the part that caught Bioware's eyes was how much effort was put into this calm reminder. It showed how far people are willing to go to get your attention and how much they cared about what they're talking about. Your cause gets the attention you wanted, but without the backlash of more negative tactics. No one can besmirch your cause by how you got your attention, because all you did was send some cupcakes to a company you know can do better, and you would like to passively remind them of this to the tune of 400 cupcakes.

RaikuFA:
So any ideas on telling Capcom that I want AAI2 and MML3?

Should I make death threats, demand donations back and attack people who don't know what were talking about?

Given the explosion on the Capcom-Unity blog when Ultimate Marvel vs Capcom 3 was announced, i think its safe to say that its just not going to happen.

canadamus_prime:
I can see your point about boycotts, but the whining thing makes no goddamn sense. Why should Publisher's feel any obligation to listen to whiners who are just going to buy their products anyway? I mean I could see some sense if the whiners threatened to STOP buying their products (as much as that would be an empty threat), but instead it's like "We hated this and that, but we're going to keep mindlessly consuming your shit anyway."

Yea, that's kind of the hole in Jim's logic here. The board members at the top who sign off on the decisions aren't going to give a crap about people complaining (unless they're high profile people with a soapbox people look at; like a celebrity or someone else that gets publicity) as long as the money is coming in. I think he's overestimating how much these people want to be liked. A lot of those board members are sociopaths who look at gaming as just another capitalist venture with legions of fans begging to be looted.
But I guess that's the "thing" isn't it? Enough gamers are going to help them meet that bottom line so what difference does boycotting make anyway. Really, while gaming is steeped in the "fanboy" culture and there are enough consumers willing to defend some of these looting practices (day 1 dlc, online pass, and crap like that) neither boycotting nor complaining isn't going to do shit.

Jimothy Sterling:

Shadowstar38:
Devil May Cry. That is all.

Also, this video may impower people to bitch more about things that are inconsequencail. Like the color scheme thing in Diablo 3 earlier in the video.

As I said in the vid, I'll always reserve the right to call them whining pricks when they're doing just that.

Well here is my gripe with the new DmC which is not about the new Dante. I fucking love the franchise but Ninja Theory is just sucking the fun and life from it.
-It's made with Unreal and locked at 30fps with 3 or 4 enemies on screen where as DMC3 & 4 were locked at 60fps and had 6 or 7 baddies on screen.
-Has a stance system (Angel/Devil Stances) which is ripped straight from Heavenly Sword
-Devil Trigger is basically a bullettime mechanic which slows the beloved CU-RAZY Combat.
-Ninja Theory has put in finishers which further slows down the game.

Yeah if you like or have any respect for Devil May Cry you will stay the fuck away from this one.

I still say the 400 cupcakes to Bioware was the greatest incarnation of gamer protest ever. :3

gigastar:

RaikuFA:
So any ideas on telling Capcom that I want AAI2 and MML3?

Should I make death threats, demand donations back and attack people who don't know what were talking about?

Given the explosion on the Capcom-Unity blog when Ultimate Marvel vs Capcom 3 was announced, i think its safe to say that its just not going to happen.

No one made death threats though, or anything that made headlines. All we got was "Game's canned/not being localized. Feels bad man."

You know, Jim has a good point. As the saying goes: "The road to Hell is paved with good intentions."

If we boycott all games, but only some of the games turn a profit, the company will logically decide that the only choice they have is to crank out the games that turn profits and not to take risks. Sure they COULD make an artsy game with a large cast of intriguing characters, a deep story, a compelling world, and fun and unique gameplay. Or they could make Call of Battlefield 37: World Halo War IV.

Oh God, I gave them an idea, didn't I?

So, I guess, all we can do is buy games that belong to series or franchises we like, while bitching and moaning about the things that piss us off. It's not perfect, but what do you expect? Niether is life.

Thank God, for Jim Sterling!
I wonder if that isn't redundant...

GonzoGamer:

canadamus_prime:
I can see your point about boycotts, but the whining thing makes no goddamn sense. Why should Publisher's feel any obligation to listen to whiners who are just going to buy their products anyway? I mean I could see some sense if the whiners threatened to STOP buying their products (as much as that would be an empty threat), but instead it's like "We hated this and that, but we're going to keep mindlessly consuming your shit anyway."

Yea, that's kind of the hole in Jim's logic here. The board members at the top who sign off on the decisions aren't going to give a crap about people complaining (unless they're high profile people with a soapbox people look at; like a celebrity or someone else that gets publicity) as long as the money is coming in. I think he's overestimating how much these people want to be liked. A lot of those board members are sociopaths who look at gaming as just another capitalist venture with legions of fans begging to be looted.
But I guess that's the "thing" isn't it? Enough gamers are going to help them meet that bottom line so what difference does boycotting make anyway. Really, while gaming is steeped in the "fanboy" culture and there are enough consumers willing to defend some of these looting practices (day 1 dlc, online pass, and crap like that) neither boycotting nor complaining isn't going to do shit.

It would honestly surprise me any of that whining, even in this age of social media, actually reached any of those board members.

RaikuFA:
So any ideas on telling Capcom that I want AAI2 and MML3?

Should I make death threats, demand donations back and attack people who don't know what were talking about?

(I, finally get to do this! :3 ) (online)

Short answer to #2; No. That would only hurt your case.
Long answer, stalling tactic; Noooooooooooooooooooooooo0oooooooooooooo_ooooooooooooooooOoooooooooooooooooooo. Please don't.

As for how to make Capcom make AA12 and MML3. Well, complain, (with other like minded people for better results), that Capcom isn't doing those things you said, and preferably complain to Capcom. That's really the best way to do it. Be polite, and spellcheck (Crap! Is that one word or two? Damn you spelling!)

MortisLegio:
So basically if gamers want change we must be like this

and not like this

ok

OT: Liked the episode and it explains WHY most boycotts aren't a good idea.

This post is three kinds of awesome! That is all.

*whines about Jim's newest episode*
Not enough tits!

canadamus_prime:

GonzoGamer:

canadamus_prime:
I can see your point about boycotts, but the whining thing makes no goddamn sense. Why should Publisher's feel any obligation to listen to whiners who are just going to buy their products anyway? I mean I could see some sense if the whiners threatened to STOP buying their products (as much as that would be an empty threat), but instead it's like "We hated this and that, but we're going to keep mindlessly consuming your shit anyway."

Yea, that's kind of the hole in Jim's logic here. The board members at the top who sign off on the decisions aren't going to give a crap about people complaining (unless they're high profile people with a soapbox people look at; like a celebrity or someone else that gets publicity) as long as the money is coming in. I think he's overestimating how much these people want to be liked. A lot of those board members are sociopaths who look at gaming as just another capitalist venture with legions of fans begging to be looted.
But I guess that's the "thing" isn't it? Enough gamers are going to help them meet that bottom line so what difference does boycotting make anyway. Really, while gaming is steeped in the "fanboy" culture and there are enough consumers willing to defend some of these looting practices (day 1 dlc, online pass, and crap like that) neither boycotting nor complaining isn't going to do shit.

It would honestly surprise me any of that whining, even in this age of social media, actually reached any of those board members.

No it doesn't. The sycophants who work directly for the board member's and kiss their asses usually try and keep them from hearing that kind of stuff. They only go looking for it when they...well, when they start losing money for the shareholders.
The problem is that capitalism has mutated into looterism and nobody cares about adding value to society or even their industry anymore, they only care about how they can make the most money right now.

DVS BSTrD:
Did anyone else think this was gunna be about Chick-fil-a?

Actually, I think Chick-fil-a's boycott will work on the long term, because unlike most gaming boycotts, it was not a hardcore niche thing, the entire country knows about a scandal, and half of it supports gay marriage.

While it would require actual effort from conservatives to consciously support it day by day, everyone else can passively boycott it simply by avoiding the place, for the same reason as we avoid any place with a bad reputation.

Though in a way, that's the same thing as in Jim's point: companies have more to worry about the long term public perceptions than about momentary actions of a few dedicated moralizers.

canadamus_prime:
I can see your point about boycotts, but the whining thing makes no goddamn sense. Why should Publisher's feel any obligation to listen to whiners who are just going to buy their products anyway? I mean I could see some sense if the whiners threatened to STOP buying their products (as much as that would be an empty threat), but instead it's like "We hated this and that, but we're going to keep mindlessly consuming your shit anyway."

This guy just summed up how I feel perfectly.

Also, Mass Effect 3 wasn't good, compared to the first two, even ignoring the bullshit ending and day 1 DLC. If an EA franchise becomes seen as "An EA franchise that is ok for true gamers to buy" then EA will promptly make it homogeneous and bland, so that they can sell it to "true gamers" and the mainstream: eg, Mass Effect, Dragon Age and probably Dead Space from the looks of it. Why put up with bullshit and expect things to change by whining on reddit, when you can just get games that don't have this crap?

Big publishers won't get better. They will get worse. The only question is how quickly. At best, they will remain tolerable.

Toilet:

Jimothy Sterling:

Shadowstar38:
Devil May Cry. That is all.

Also, this video may impower people to bitch more about things that are inconsequencail. Like the color scheme thing in Diablo 3 earlier in the video.

As I said in the vid, I'll always reserve the right to call them whining pricks when they're doing just that.

Well here is my gripe with the new DmC which is not about the new Dante. I fucking love the franchise but Ninja Theory is just sucking the fun and life from it.
-It's made with Unreal and locked at 30fps with 3 or 4 enemies on screen where as DMC3 & 4 were locked at 60fps and had 6 or 7 baddies on screen.
-Has a stance system (Angel/Devil Stances) which is ripped straight from Heavenly Sword
-Devil Trigger is basically a bullettime mechanic which slows the beloved CU-RAZY Combat.
-Ninja Theory has put in finishers which further slows down the game.

Yeah if you like or have any respect for Devil May Cry you will stay the fuck away from this one.

I love and have plenty of respect for the old DMC games, but I am all about this game.

1: I've never cared much for framerate. I understand the problem people have with 30fps and I respect it, but I personally do not give a shit. The difference between 30 and 60fps has never made me love or hate a game more.

2: So what?

3: Bullet time is meh, but again, I've never found it ruinous to an experience. I tend to not use them much myself.

4: A matter of pure taste, and not an objective mark of whether you love DMC or not.

GonzoGamer:

canadamus_prime:

GonzoGamer:

Yea, that's kind of the hole in Jim's logic here. The board members at the top who sign off on the decisions aren't going to give a crap about people complaining (unless they're high profile people with a soapbox people look at; like a celebrity or someone else that gets publicity) as long as the money is coming in. I think he's overestimating how much these people want to be liked. A lot of those board members are sociopaths who look at gaming as just another capitalist venture with legions of fans begging to be looted.
But I guess that's the "thing" isn't it? Enough gamers are going to help them meet that bottom line so what difference does boycotting make anyway. Really, while gaming is steeped in the "fanboy" culture and there are enough consumers willing to defend some of these looting practices (day 1 dlc, online pass, and crap like that) neither boycotting nor complaining isn't going to do shit.

It would honestly surprise me any of that whining, even in this age of social media, actually reached any of those board members.

No it doesn't. The sycophants who work directly for the board member's and kiss their asses usually try and keep them from hearing that kind of stuff. They only go looking for it when they...well, when they start losing money for the shareholders.
The problem is that capitalism has mutated into looterism and nobody cares about adding value to society or even their industry anymore, they only care about how they can make the most money right now.

Yep, their customers and everyone else be damned. This is why we can't have nice things.

LordLundar:
While I can agree on the complaining, how the complaints are presented is important. Well presented concerns serve so much better premise than "[insert object] is in the game now? RUINED FOREVER!!!!111eleventyone11!!!" To use Mass Effect 3 as an example again, it wasn't the "ruined forever" crybabies, or the threats to sue over the ending (which was stupidly over the top) that forced their hand. It was well worded complaints at how the ending was problematic for the game and subsequently the business (people won't buy DLC for a game they don't like after all) reaching Forbes writer's ears that caused it, as such publications just as easily dismiss petulant whining and empty legal threats just as handily as developers and publishers.

So yes, complain to get things change, but complain the right way or risk your complaints to be shoved into the round filing cabinet.

You really think that? For me, it was the massive amount of 1 point ratings in metacritic, the endless whining and articles about, against and in favor of the topic in the months after the release, the spamming of the twitter accounts of everyone related to the game, the use of charity as an excuse to raise money against it and actually sending physical stuff to developers that got their attention in the first place.

Its rather sad what Jim says, but definitely true. Loud and annoying tantrums will get more attention and results than any reasonable argument made under reasonable means (and the ME3 one was the loudest, most annoying tantrum I have heard in recent history).

tellytoy:

canadamus_prime:
I can see your point about boycotts, but the whining thing makes no goddamn sense. Why should Publisher's feel any obligation to listen to whiners who are just going to buy their products anyway? I mean I could see some sense if the whiners threatened to STOP buying their products (as much as that would be an empty threat), but instead it's like "We hated this and that, but we're going to keep mindlessly consuming your shit anyway."

This guy just summed up how I feel perfectly.

Also, Mass Effect 3 wasn't good, compared to the first two, even ignoring the bullshit ending and day 1 DLC. If an EA franchise becomes seen as "An EA franchise that is ok for true gamers to buy" then EA will promptly make it homogeneous and bland, so that they can sell it to "true gamers" and the mainstream: eg, Mass Effect, Dragon Age and probably Dead Space from the looks of it. Why put up with bullshit and expect things to change by whining on reddit, when you can just get games that don't have this crap?

Big publishers won't get better. They will get worse. The only question is how quickly. At best, they will remain tolerable.

If only there was a way to get rid of the big publishers altogether without hurting the games and/or the developers.

MortisLegio:
So basically if gamers want change we must be like this

and not like this

ok

What a world, what a world.


Still, good advice in there.
...I'm still boycotting any EA game that requires Origin, though. Thank god for that final disclaimer (though my principles in this one aren't based in morals... they're based in convenience. I refuse to put up with a separate client and account for every goddamn publisher. Give me hardcopies without online-only DRM client software or fuck you up the nose).

I find myself liking your videos more and more, although I suspect a lot of people cannot see past the aggression and listen to the actual points being made.

It's also always a pleasure seeing things from another perspective, I honestly hadn't really thought about the other side of what a boycott may do. Although I have seen enough to know that they never really work anyway.

canadamus_prime:
I can see your point about boycotts, but the whining thing makes no goddamn sense. Why should Publisher's feel any obligation to listen to whiners who are just going to buy their products anyway? I mean I could see some sense if the whiners threatened to STOP buying their products (as much as that would be an empty threat), but instead it's like "We hated this and that, but we're going to keep mindlessly consuming your shit anyway."

Because in a lot of cases, they can't tell who has bought it and who hasn't. All they know is that a lot of people are hating the ending, and that this fact is getting spread amongst the internet and "gaming community" like wildfire.

While they are still raking in a lot of money, they will be losing out for every person who hasn't bought it due to the complaints.

I do see your point, but image matters in the long run. It is why Valve gets so much adoration (excessive as it is), they know how to make themselves look good.

For example the L4D2 boycott. People create a boycott group, and Valve fly the leaders over to see the game for themselves before it's release. Not only do the leaders of the group openly state they were wrong, Valve looks good for paying attention to the fans, responding, and spending money in order to do it.

EA in that situation would have quoted how many sales the series has so far and what the average rating of their games are on all the well known gaming sites and magazines. While implying that all those who dislike it are strongly in the minority. Which is why people hate them so much.

You know... I never really thought about it that way. Boycotting a shitty publisher only hurts devs... and you should never want to do that.

Developers are the magic.
Publishers are the money(poison).

Jimothy Sterling:
Why Boycotts Fail Where Whining Tantrums Win

Continuing on from the argument that one can love games as art but hate them as a business, Jimquisition this week focuses on how gamers can best express their distaste for the latter while still supporting the former.

Watch Video

So basically your telling me it's a okay to bitch?

Alright. Sounds appealing. It kinda sounds like a friend who knows your on a diet telling you to have one more scoop of ice cream. It sure sounds appealing. I respect your opinion lol.

truth be told your advise doesn't call for anything hard.

In the back of my mind I can't help but think you spoon fed me the most appealing dec, cause it would go down easier.

But hay I don't have a better plan sign me up LOL.

I really thought from the title this was gonna be redundant. "Oh it's Jim being Jim," but it's surprising he keeps showing new looks for old topics.

Seriously, why can't Mr Sterling write for tv shows LOL.

I am sorry Jim, but Prototype 2 was not that good.

Jim, oh Jim.
I am never wrong!
You are wrong about shrimps (and about being always right)
That makes you more wrong than me.
ENVY ME!!!

On the topic
My Activision boycott started after it became clear that there won't be Battlezone3
Pricks :(
And it seems that this boycott will continue for pretty long time

captcha: i love lamp
You have no idea >:D

This would also be a lesson for developers not to let themselves become purchased by the large publishers who just don't give a shit about them or their IP, resulting in a poor environment they helped create for themselves as most independent devs from the 90's and early 2000's sold out to give 3 publishers a near monopoly on the market.

If most developers remained independent during those crucial years instead of the owners seeing dollar signs, the industry wouldn't be so watered down and homogenized.

DRM wouldn't have such a stranglehold on it either.

Demand better form publishers, because you know they can.

Jimothy Sterling:
Here be awesome

The truth is a hard thing to swallow, but it's still the truth. Thanks for being the first one here man enough to make a video about this. I can almost feel the uneasy glares you must be getting around the world for having the nerve to say this, haha.

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