Serial Killer Round 82: Night of the Hunt (Closed, Cycle 7)

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Has anyone even GOTTEN hints from the Insight junkies?
They've gone insane and started acting like a pack of murderous 6 year olds on a sugar rush, but in reviewing all 9 pages of this whole fiasco I haven't noticed a single proper hint.

The Raw Shark:
Has anyone even GOTTEN hints from the Insight junkies?
They've gone insane and started acting like a pack of murderous 6 year olds on a sugar rush, but in reviewing all 9 pages of this whole fiasco I haven't noticed a single proper hint.

Well the only things of any worth we've had are:
Arnox's T H E E Y E S A R E A L W A Y S S T A R I N G A T Y O U
Whitbane's IFEELCOLDARMSREACHINGOUTTOME
and
Programmed_For_Damage's D e a t h t o t h o s e w h o b e l i e v e h i m
Take that for what you will because it's all greek to me.

Sweet Jesus Caramel, get a different die. I mean, yours is good for playing DnD, but I'd be taking a hammer to it if you were DM.

The Raw Shark:
Has anyone even GOTTEN hints from the Insight junkies?

Yes.

Well fuck. People are unlucky as fak

(Actually I kind of agree about Insight hints not getting handed out enough. Also I think Whitbane's hint was just CF saying they were going to go mad soon so I don't think it was actually a hint.

I would suggest either increasing the hint rate or just doing away with Insight altogether next round. It's a really fun concept but it doesn't look like it's very practical.)

altnameJag:
Sweet Jesus Caramel, get a different die. I mean, yours is good for playing DnD, but I'd be taking a hammer to it if you were DM.

Can't help people keep asking for insight- they know the risks lol. It's like, two people in a row landed on 17 (I can show proof too).
Seems my insight mechanic is quite successful if I do say so myself. But so far, it's not going so well for you guys XD

Arnoxthe1:
(Actually I kind of agree about Insight hints not getting handed out enough. Also I think Whitbane's hint was just CF saying they were going to go mad soon so I don't think it was actually a hint.

I would suggest either increasing the hint rate or just doing away with Insight altogether next round. It's a really fun concept but it doesn't look like it's very practical.)

... Dropping hints way more often, you kidding? It's 20+ players against 2 people and if everyone's asking for a lot of insight (which they have been), giving truthful hints far more often means the Killer will get caught immediately. Remember, insight is a gray area .. it can help you or mislead you. It's basically a 'high risk but high reward' system that ensures both the good and bad can't abuse it.

You just want to drop the entire mechanic because it's not going your way? That's cute :)

Oh FFS!

Lousy minor setbacks. Hopefully they got some good insight before they went mad.

Caramel Frappe:
... Dropping hints way more often, you kidding? It's 20+ players against 2 people and if everyone's asking for a lot of insight (which they have been), giving truthful hints far more often means the Killer will get caught immediately. Remember, insight is a gray area .. it can help you or mislead you. It's basically a 'high risk but high reward' system that ensures both the good and bad can't abuse it.

You just want to drop the entire mechanic because it's not going your way? That's cute :)

(Don't get saucy with ME, Caramel.

Only I'm allowed to do that. ;) )

Arnoxthe1:
(Actually I kind of agree about Insight hints not getting handed out enough. Also I think Whitbane's hint was just CF saying they were going to go mad soon so I don't think it was actually a hint.

I would suggest either increasing the hint rate or just doing away with Insight altogether next round. It's a really fun concept but it doesn't look like it's very practical.)

Nah. This round and last round are trying to address a core problem with Escapist SK: the Villagers have no agency but to be a countdown to SK victory. The SK game strategy had deteriorated to "wait for the Spy to get his 3 questions in to get a short list of suspects, then hang them." For the SK and Lawyer, it was just a headhunt to find the Spy, and for the Spy, it was about staying alive. The best way to stay alive is to just not say anything. So the game just got to the point where whole rounds passed with only 5 comments or less. There was nothing for people without a role to do but bicker and point fingers over crap like posting style (people pointing at Arnox here, for their writing style, are a prime example: dude's just trying to roleplay his insight level and so his head's in the noose for some people (no game-breaking comment from me about the other reasons he's suspected though(...and yes, I'm still bitter for being hung in the first round, for what was probably the silly posting I was doing to pass the time in the round))). Hell, in a desperate attempt to shake up the game you had people going "around" the rules (I'd say breaking them, but that has started arguments in the past) to the point of the Lawyer convincing people to vote the SK's way, betraying the "good" team. That happened more than once. It's why you can read the role rules here and see where Frappe says that there'll be punishment meted out for intentionally changing sides, and that the winner's badge only goes to the people on Team Good/Bad from the beginning.

Last round, Gritch tried to address player agency without changing to rules by bringing roleplaying back to the forefront and letting people do a choose-your-own-adventure thing for roleplaying scenarios. However, as it did not touch the rules, ultimately it did not solve the core problem. Frappe's trying his way now with the Insight mechanic, and it's proving a lot more successful. Now, everybody can gamble as they choose for their own little slice of the Spy pie, and they also get something to debate about with the public clues. So I'd say it plasters over the problem of Villager agency for this game at least, although it definitely needs tweaking. Too many people are buying into it in order to have something to do, and it's throwing the game off of the rails.

Personally, these are the changes I want to see to solve the root problem:

A) a more traditional Mafia set-up should be used, which expands the bad guys to 3-4 players and they all have to be caught for their side to lose
B) Spy should be nerfed to only being able to ask about a specific user, once per round
C) Mandatory posting (you don't post a minimum of 5 times per round, you're kicked)

This gives the bad guys enough safety to be a little more adventurous in the chat, and also gives them a real chance of winning; SK wins are less than 1/10th of the games that have been played, and that's mostly down the SK's team having a single point of failure to lose while the good team has 2 dozen.

It makes the good guys a lot less reliant on the Spy, and makes the Spy have to work a good deal harder.

And mandatory posting ensures that there is ample talk to keep the game healthy and moving.

Now, these are big changes. It can be argued pretty well that they'd transform the Escapist SK so much that it's no longer really the Escapist SK. This game has a long, long tradition on this site. But ultimately, I think it's a direction that needs to be taken. The game is broken as is. The best that the GMs can do is dangle a new shiny in each game for players to kick around until it's dirty and broken. The Insight is cool and new now, but already you guys are growing tired of it and asking for it to be changed. And the old guard of SK is largely gone.

It's not the players' fault if the best way to play a game is through a degenerate strategy: it's the fault of the rules. And to ultimately solve that problem, you have to address the part of the rules that is creating the problem. Treat the disease, not the symptoms.

I think the Insight is a good idea in theory but absolutely tough to nail in practice.

Make the Insight too obvious and the game is over before it begins
Make the Insight too tough and it's not worth the risk

At the very least, Banana and I salute Caramel Frappe for trying something new. Whether it will work out for the best or not remains to be seen as I have a feeling we won't know for sure until the game is over (so we can compare what we saw Insight-wise to what actually took place).

SupahEwok:
Personally, these are the changes I want to see to solve the root problem:

A) a more traditional Mafia set-up should be used, which expands the bad guys to 3-4 players and they all have to be caught for their side to lose
B) Spy should be nerfed to only being able to ask about a specific user, once per round
C) Mandatory posting (you don't post a minimum of 5 times per round, you're kicked)

This gives the bad guys enough safety to be a little more adventurous in the chat, and also gives them a real chance of winning; SK wins are less than 1/10th of the games that have been played, and that's mostly down the SK's team having a single point of failure to lose while the good team has 2 dozen.

While I did agree with most of your points ... the problem with having more baddies (aka point A) is that they'll just gang up on people during votes. In the past, when people could switch sides and help the Killer out- all they would do is pile votes onto active players. There was no way individuals were going to outvote a 3 to 7 team of baddies, their votes would stomp out everyone else's.

If the bad people (including the Killer) weren't allowed to vote, it'd be game then or more fair at least. Still, I have seen people side with the baddies and abused the old rules which is why in this SK game, I enforced that if you help the bad guys win, you don't get the win or the awards. Still, I am sure some people just want to watch the world burn anyhow *shrug*

Mine eyes have seen the glory of the coming of the lord...

Caramel Frappe:

... Dropping hints way more often, you kidding? It's 20+ players against 2 people and if everyone's asking for a lot of insight (which they have been), giving truthful hints far more often means the Killer will get caught immediately. Remember, insight is a gray area .. it can help you or mislead you. It's basically a 'high risk but high reward' system that ensures both the good and bad can't abuse it.

You just want to drop the entire mechanic because it's not going your way? That's cute :)

I dunno, just upping the noise to signal ratio would be fun.

Hella lotta work for you though, so I can see why it dropped off a bit now that half of us are out of our gourd.

altnameJag:

Caramel Frappe:

... Dropping hints way more often, you kidding? It's 20+ players against 2 people and if everyone's asking for a lot of insight (which they have been), giving truthful hints far more often means the Killer will get caught immediately. Remember, insight is a gray area .. it can help you or mislead you. It's basically a 'high risk but high reward' system that ensures both the good and bad can't abuse it.

You just want to drop the entire mechanic because it's not going your way? That's cute :)

I dunno, just upping the noise to signal ratio would be fun.

Hella lotta work for you though, so I can see why it dropped off a bit now that half of us are out of our gourd.

I did edit old posts you guys made in this thread- if that says something. I do what I can, but overdoing it can also ruin the surprise since I like choosing the timing lol.

Reminder that you guys need to send your votes in before the timer runs out.

08/11/2017 11:00 am UTC

Who is going to join me in this sweet and gentle dark...

(that's not an Insight post, Banana and I just felt it was appropriate for the situation we're in...)

Voting ends in a day? But I want to kill now!

Programmed_For_Damage:
Voting ends in a day? But I want to kill now!

It ends in 3 hours man lol

Caramel Frappe:

Programmed_For_Damage:
Voting ends in a day? But I want to kill now!

It ends in 3 hours man lol

I live in the Southern Hemisphere, it goes backward like the water down our toilet ;-)

Programmed_For_Damage:

Caramel Frappe:

Programmed_For_Damage:
Voting ends in a day? But I want to kill now!

It ends in 3 hours man lol

I live in the Southern Hemisphere, it goes backward like the water down our toilet ;-)

I live in Canada, I can say similar

I just got called in on my day off to go to work ... when I get back, I promise to announce who got executed.

Just dropping my 2Cents on the insight mechanic as I wasn't here when it was being discussed. I think it's a great risk vs reward system that does allow regular players without roles to get involved in the investigation process though to be frank the risk is huge in comparison to the reward considering how vague the hints could be and the fact some players are not frequently engaging in discussion in the thread so it's harder to tell if the hints are also a reference to them or not.

If I could suggest an improvement if a similar mechanic was used again in another SK game, perhaps insight could be a pseudo currency system for hints like it is in Bloodborne but rather than losing it you still retain the stacks and still go mad at 20 insight. Essentially, similar to the doll(spy) and Church (lawyer), for every 5 insight that a player accumulates they can ask one question of the GM pertaining to a single other player with every rank of question allowing for a more informative hint . They however can't ask something straight up like are they role or the beast otherwise they receive a gibberish answer pointing at another player. Instead they can ask stuff like where their allegiance lies based off the vote and the gm can reply "The Beast" or "The Hunters" depending on if that player is voting the same players as the beast or not whilst higher tiers at 15 insight could be questions such as do they operate at night to get a clue whether they may be performing a role at the start of a cycle. Then at 20 insight they could ask if a certain player is friendly or dangerous and receive an appropriate hint however since they have technically gone mad they have to convey that information in a barely comprehensible sprawl for the players to figure out if it's a useful hint or not. It would certainly give players more control over who they want to be investigating each round as well as still remain vague enough that players do not have a huge advantage against the beast or the church.

Additionally, the bell tolls closer to the judgment of one of our brethren. Have hope we have found the traitor or dealt with a madman this night.

GUYS! INSIGHT! STOP IT! It isn't working out!

erttheking:
GUYS! INSIGHT! STOP IT! It isn't working out!

You're talking about a bunch of gamers sitting down in a room that only has a single button in it. It's a lost cause telling them not to press it.

SupahEwok:

erttheking:
GUYS! INSIGHT! STOP IT! It isn't working out!

You're talking about a bunch of gamers sitting down in a room that only has a single button in it. It's a lost cause telling them not to press it.

image

It was time for yet another execution ... however, something was off. Each Hunter knew one another like neighbors, so it was somewhat worrisome when a few were missing from the group. You take a look around the Hunter's Dream, but do not find them. However, within the workshop you find a note. No signature, so the writer was anonymous to you ... yet, you begin to read.

I'm sorry, i'm sorry for not even bothering to say goodbye to you all.
The others and I, we ... we've grown ever so disgusted with ourselves.
Willing to murder a fellow hunter every night to find the beast, does that make us beasts?
We must take our leave then, and please ... do not find us. We'll be in the waking world, toning for our sins.
May the gods have mercy on our souls, for what we've done.

Yet, you ignore the warning and venture out into the world, feeling as if The Beast had wrote this to deceive you and your allies. Yet, as you enter the Yharnam Grand Chapel as a starting point ... there you saw three bodies lying on the floor near the rather large tomb stone. As you come closer, you grasp as to what the scene entails ... three Hunters that you recognize have committed suicide, slicing their own throats. The blood was quite fresh, meaning their last action was only just recent. Seeing the pool of it beneath their bodies makes you wonder, was this the fate of every one of you? Were you all meant to die and the night to never end?

Shoggoth2588, gritch, and Bat Vader did not vote numerous cycles so they have killed themselves from this Round.
None of them had roles whatsoever.

Have to start breaking fingers to make sure people do jobs now?!

Poor bastards...they just couldn't handle the madness.

I can understand, if I didn't have Banana to talk to, I might have gone mad as well. You're my best friend Banana!

tippy2k2 covers his mouth and changes to a higher pitched voice: Awww shucks, you're my best friend too tippy2k2

Yeah, I figured the eyes clue wasn't about Vader

Seems like I went early on Bat Vader. Annnnd I probably owe Arnox a big apology. Sorry about that whole "in league with the Beast thing".

That brings me back to my original suspects. I figured if Bat Vader were inactive they'd take themselves out this round, so I didn't vote for them. Let's see what happens now.

Programmed_For_Damage:
Seems like I went early on Bat Vader. Annnnd I probably owe Arnox a big apology. Sorry about that whole "in league with the Beast thing".

That brings me back to my original suspects. I figured if Bat Vader were inactive they'd take themselves out this round, so I didn't vote for them. Let's see what happens now.

Hurm.

Will have to see who was killed this time by us.
Hope not too late.

Nile McMorrow:

Okay so my suspicions are: Either Tippy or Programmed is The Healing Church.
And the beast might be:
kenu12345 - seems to be playing it too safe
MiskWisk - took a vested interest in my theory on how insight junkies could be used to an advantage and disadvantage
TheRawShark - just a hunch
They're also all hunters who haven't taken insight yet which fit my theory the beast doesn't want to risk going mad and have also been fairly active. Then again I could be way off base with this and the beast is psyching me out by not actually saying anything in the thread. ?.? Maybe I should take an insight hit also....

I'll back this list. Tippy's adorably insane and Keanu's just being too...nice.

Plus, the staring and the red eyes and yada yada. Never trust a happy hunter.

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