Same as title really
Yes
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No
60% (27)
60% (27)
Pay me to
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Poll: Would you give up your concert seat because of the color of your skin?

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Sorry for the kinda' baity title, but I've been giving this issue some thought and I find I'm more philosophical than indignant.

Some back story:

Lido Pimienta, a Canadian/Colombian singer who won the Canadian 'you're the best artist!' Polaris Music Prize for her unique blend of basically everything into electro-pop, was preforming a concert at the Halifax Pop Expo.
And at the start of the concert she told all the women of color to come to the front, and all the white people to move to the back. Regardless who paid for what ticket or group dynamics, everyone white goes back, everywoman black comes front.
And apparently she does this all the time.

At first I was all set to go off on one for this blatant racism. I mean it is Racism. I vaguely recall a big hullabaloo about someone refusing to go to the back of a bus because of the color of their skin, but that was before Twitter, so doesn't count #OldHistory
If you pay for a front row seat, that's the seat you get. Having someone remove you from that seat without reimbursing you is stealing, and doing it because of the color of your skin is discrimination.

But digging a little deeper, apparently its a safety issue. The story goes that the back of the venue is filled with Nazi Zombies and people named Greg, so women and minorities aren't safe there. Better to have the women up front, in the light, by the cameras and performers and all that jazz, and the grizzled macho white men in the back to deal with the Zombies COD style and explain to Greg manbuns look terrible.
So she's trying to protect certain people by having them more visual. Sure, I guess?
But even then, that's not the fault of a front row white dude, that's the venue's fault. If the security at an event is sitting on their hands doing nothing while Zombies roam about, that's on them! They should be putting down the outbreaks, not expecting the performers to move the women and children to the lifeboats up front.

So I guess her heart is in the right place, but this is just one of the absolute worst ways to deal with this problem? I've dated Indian and black women before, and I would get pretty pissed if someone asked me to leave her alone at the front of a concert, giving up a seat I paid for, to go sit in the back because its too dangerous in the back for non-whites.

What do you guys think? Thoughts? Ideas? How do you deal with zombie outbreaks at Matchbox 20 concerts?!


http://www.billboard.com/articles/business/8015185/lido-pimienta-speaks-halifax-pop-explosion-racism-controversy

...What?

Nope.
And depending on the wording of whatever contract I entered into when I bought the tickets, it might be the prefect grounds for a lawsuit if they try to make me.

What drugs are these concert people on and where can i get some?

Eyes kind of glazed over when zombies were mentioned.

1/10

erttheking:
Eyes kind of glazed over when zombies were mentioned.

I stopped at comparing whatever this is to the Freedom Riders.

Jux:
1/10

erttheking:
Eyes kind of glazed over when zombies were mentioned.

I stopped at comparing whatever this is to the Freedom Riders.

Its actually a pretty apt comparison. People were asked to go sit in the back because of the color of their skin, just happens in this case that color was white.

Looks like pretty blatant sexism/racism to me. I'd probably give up my seat anyway if I'm there as it's part of the concert experience to go along with requests from the performers. Chances are too that if I were going to the concert I'd know ahead of time about the potential request.

By the end of the performance, especially if I didn't know ahead of time that it might be requested, I'd be complaining plenty I bet. That doesn't sound like a pleasant experience and I'd at least ask to be reimbursed for the front seat ticket costs.

Silentpony:

Jux:
1/10

erttheking:
Eyes kind of glazed over when zombies were mentioned.

I stopped at comparing whatever this is to the Freedom Riders.

Its actually a pretty apt comparison. People were asked to go sit in the back because of the color of their skin, just happens in this case that color was white.

Question, is anyone going to get arrested if they don't give up their seat?

erttheking:

Silentpony:

Jux:
1/10

I stopped at comparing whatever this is to the Freedom Riders.

Its actually a pretty apt comparison. People were asked to go sit in the back because of the color of their skin, just happens in this case that color was white.

Question, is anyone going to get arrested if they don't give up their seat?

Escorted out by Security, yes. Not sure what happened after they leave the venue

Silentpony:

erttheking:

Silentpony:

Its actually a pretty apt comparison. People were asked to go sit in the back because of the color of their skin, just happens in this case that color was white.

Question, is anyone going to get arrested if they don't give up their seat?

Escorted out by Security, yes. Not sure what happened after they leave the venue

Escorted out by security =/= arrested. Even then, was anyone escorted out?

Do people have to go to her concerts in the same way that people need to use the bus to get around and survive day to day?

Frankly, I'm against tiered seating for shows in general. Give me a big open pit in front of the stage or give me...I dunno, something similar to that. Festivals ftw.

Also, did we really need your dating history hombre? Like, just...don't, man.

Chewster:
Do people have to go to her concerts in the same way that people need to use the bus to get around and survive day to day?

Frankly, I'm against tiered seating for shows in general. Give me a big open pit in front of the stage or give me...I dunno, something similar to that. Festivals ftw.

Also, did we really need your dating history hombre? Like, just...don't, man.

My point being that asking all people of a skin color to go in the back can disrupt groups. If you're there with your friends, or a date and suddenly you have to go sit in the back.
You know, people problems?

erttheking:

Silentpony:

erttheking:

Question, is anyone going to get arrested if they don't give up their seat?

Escorted out by Security, yes. Not sure what happened after they leave the venue

Escorted out by security =/= arrested. Even then, was anyone escorted out?

Yes actually. A photographer was escorted out for refusing, as well as two women, but they were escorted out because they got into a fight over the issue

Silentpony:

erttheking:

Silentpony:

Escorted out by Security, yes. Not sure what happened after they leave the venue

Escorted out by security =/= arrested. Even then, was anyone escorted out?

Yes actually. A photographer was escorted out for refusing, as well as two women, but they were escorted out because they got into a fight over the issue

Well, that does suck, I do admit. Those people were wronged.

They weren't fucking Rosa Parks though.

erttheking:

Silentpony:

erttheking:

Escorted out by security =/= arrested. Even then, was anyone escorted out?

Yes actually. A photographer was escorted out for refusing, as well as two women, but they were escorted out because they got into a fight over the issue

Well, that does suck, I do admit. Those people were wronged.

They weren't fucking Rosa Parks though.

Fair enough. But there are similarities in words, if not in scale.

Arts an odd thing, and not at all an essential utility like the bus system so the freedom rider comparison is pretty dumb. much like I know sitting in the front row of a Gallagher act may mean getting sprayed with watermelon, the article seems to make it clear that this is something her audience is well aware she does. In which case, whether I give up my seat seems like something I am going to be aware is a possibility before I even buy the ticket and if I am with friends and don't want to be separated it seems as simple as having the friends move back with me as I seriously doubt she is asking any person who doesn't move to the front to leave. In fact the article seems to only point out people that were making a scene were asked to leave so not sure if a white guy just stays in their seat if they are being asked to leave or what, I am on a phone outside so maybe I misread something.

As for the statement being made, ehhh in the current climate you are going to get some dumb people that pretend that defying an artistic statement makes them the equivalent to Rosa Parks or Claudette Colvin. On the other hand, if my friends dragged me to a concert and didn't tell me that was going to happen I'd be kind of put out as I hate awkwardly looking for a new seat in the middle of a show, so I can see why it would upset some people.

The overall statement the artist is trying to make is an interesting one, not sure it would work in any sort of mainstream environment, her stated reason for doing it is kind of odd for an entertainer but at the level of audience she seems to attract you get some eccentric artists. It's kind of like a women get in free event or that Wonder Woman stunt that theater tried to pull, or a men's only club, you can sort of see why some overly sensitive snowflakes would be offended by it, but in the overall sense it seems like something really stupid to make a scene over, especially as it seems to be a regular thing she does.

Silentpony:
My point being that asking all people of a skin color to go in the back can disrupt groups. If you're there with your friends, or a date and suddenly you have to go sit in the back.
You know, people problems?

Fair enough then. I apologize if I misread your intent.

In any case, I still think the Rosa Parks comparison is off. I don't know what I'd do in this situation. Probably not go to the show to begin with if it was assigned seating. I think it's an interesting experiment but if people pay specifically for certain seats, it is just going to lead to a lot of annoyed fans who feel like they get ripped off if they are being asked to move. Then again, if it is widely known this is how she rolls, then you sort of know what you're getting into if you buy a ticket. From the article I couldn't tell if that was the case or if it was just general admission and people were asked to shuffle around a bit. It sounds like the latter which seems like less of a big deal to me.

If I was daft enough to buy tickets for a concert but not do any research whatsoever about what said concerts are like...?

Glad you linked an actual article where the artist had an explanation. In light of that, nah, no problems with it on my end.

altnameJag:
If I was daft enough to buy tickets for a concert but not do any research whatsoever about what said concerts are like...?

Glad you linked an actual article where the artist had an explanation. In light of that, nah, no problems with it on my end.

Yeah once I got to here her take on it, I felt different. Still a weird thing to do, but I at least understand her reasons.

If I wasn't forewarned ahead of time, such as by being a fan of hers and knowing that she does this at every show? I'd be a little peeved, yeah.

She might be making some point about race hierarchies? I don't know. The whole thing seems stupid to me.

Apparently, irony hasn't penetrated her skull yet. I can't wait for Black Histoy Month to roll around and a ton of white people start giving her some of the old Dr. King treatment.

FalloutJack:
Apparently, irony hasn't penetrated her skull yet. I can't wait for Black Histoy Month to roll around and a ton of white people start giving her some of the old Dr. King treatment.

Let me help you with that

image

I'd feel like an idiot for paying for a front row seat, that's for sure. But yes.

No, especially if the front row seats cost more... but to be fair, I have never been involved in the avant garde of anything artistic- if I was aware that outrageous things might happen at an artistic performance piece of this nature, then I would be getting what I payed for, I guess?

Welp, you've convinced me, white people are clearly the most oppressed people ever.

bastardofmelbourne:
If I wasn't forewarned ahead of time, such as by being a fan of hers and knowing that she does this at every show? I'd be a little peeved, yeah.

She might be making some point about race hierarchies? I don't know. The whole thing seems stupid to me.

https://www.halifaxpopexplosion.com/lido-pimienta

Lido Pimienta is a Toronto-based, Colombian-born interdisciplinary musician and artist-curator. She has performed, exhibited, and curated around the world since 2002, exploring the politics of gender, race, motherhood, identity and the construct of the Canadian landscape in the Latin American diaspora and vernacular.

I may be wrong, but I feel this is kinda of her thing. Or maybe she just tried something new to have the audience involved this time.

OT: You forgot the option "If they ask nicely"
OT2: Who DOESN'T want to spend the evening fending off Nazi Zombies during a concert instead of sitting on the front row!?

If i did not know about this beforehand, no, unless i begin to fear for my life.

If i knew about it i would either not buy a ticket, or pay for a back row seat. In all likelyhood, the first one, why go to a concert where you are not wanted? That is just asking for trouble.

When i first read about this, it sounded like racism. Then nazi zombies got thrown around and it was about survival (I mean lets face it, the black guy dies in horror films). Now it sounds more like arrogant "performance art." Like, Shia Lebouff putting a paper bag over his head and calling it art sort of thing.

Hope companies dont catch on to this tactic

"wait, you mean we can have the customer pay for a product, then give them an inferior product to which they payed for and get away with it by calling it performance art?"

I would just not go to the concert, as my presence and financial support are clearly not wanted. Not to say I've ever heard of this person in the first place.... Or go to concerts that are not classical.

Ugh, music biz. You get the worst kind of grandstanding halfwits there, though the competition has been energetic as of late.

A woman volunteered to photograph the event for the benefit of the organizers, showed up and was doing the job, for free. So that's good, right? No, because the diva on the stage cast her majestic eye over the crowd and was greatly offended upon seeing a person of inferior race who obviously didn't know her place! It's a tricky situation for sure: here you have this volunteer in a place that allows her to perform the service she signed up for... but in the end, you're going to want to be firm with their kind when they get uppity, lest any ideas of "equality" catch on. So the honkess was carried off by the security personnel and dumped off the grounds unceremoniously, with nary a beating as I understand. And the organizers promptly issued a public apology to express their shock at the "hate" that their volunteer was exhibiting and their reassurance that these kinds of ugly displays of ideas beyond one's station will not happen again under their loving watch. So a happy ending... for now.

I mean, Jesus. Some people have the unearned privilege of musical talent (which I for one envy to a considerable degree), and they use it to enact petty manipulations like this. Also, a friend of mine married a Colombian lady, and I tell you I have to struggle to establish a sense of Muh Racial Difference when I see her. I guess I need an education in the intricate cultural constructs of the "Latin diaspora". (And really? "Nescio qua natale solum dulcedine captos ducit, et immemores non sinit esse sui"?)

Wait...what?

I mean, I've NEVER been to a GOOD concert that had seats up front.

The front rows are all for standing.
This ain't fucking Le Miserables for some shit, it's a damn CONCERT...right?

StatusNil:
*snip rambling*
I mean, Jesus. Some people have the unearned privilege of musical talent (which I for one envy to a considerable degree)

Okay, stop. If you envy that shit, then practice. Put the time and the effort in.

But no, this gal does a thing you don't like, so obviously she didn't earn it.

I do like how you completely glossed over the part where the venue said their volunteer reacted with aggression and overt racism though. That really would've put a damper on your reverse racism screed.

I probably wouldn't go in the first place, but no. Not without a refund anyway.

Silentpony:
But digging a little deeper, apparently its a safety issue. The story goes that the back of the venue is filled with Nazi Zombies and people named Greg, so women and minorities aren't safe there. Better to have the women up front, in the light, by the cameras and performers and all that jazz, and the grizzled macho white men in the back to deal with the Zombies COD style and explain to Greg manbuns look terrible.
So she's trying to protect certain people by having them more visual. Sure, I guess?

That's... huh.

Lido Pimienta:
From the audience's point of view, [men] for the most part will not think twice before they put themselves right in front of you. I am a short woman, so I always have to show up very early to be able to enjoy the music, to see the acts... From the stage point of view, I noticed how most men who plant themselves at the front, they tend to overpower ME. Their presence usually at my own show is a threatening one and I have had men grab me, grab my hands, grab my waist, scream "TE AMO MAMACITA." My show is all about high energy and high feminine power, so I can see for some men, my energy reads "sexual" and they feel like my show is FOR THEM, when in fact, my show if anything, is for WOMXN.

From her own experience at her shows, men tend to be a bit... rapey. So she shoos them off to the back and asks women to come to the front. For her safety and theirs. She also specifically asks black women to the front because if she doesn't, the front rows will be filled with white women. Again, this is something she's noticed at her own shows and seeks to rectify. With that in mind, she can do what she wants.

No, I payed for my seat and I will sit at the seat I payed for.

Tanis:
Wait...what?

I mean, I've NEVER been to a GOOD concert that had seats up front.

The front rows are all for standing.
This ain't fucking Le Miserables for some shit, it's a damn CONCERT...right?

You might be right, I don't actually see any mention of giving up seats.

Also I can say the same, apart from like classical music concerts, almost all big concerts I've been to, the front is not seating its a free form standing area with people reaching up right to the stage, which would actually explain her line in the linked article about men grabbing at her on stage.

The distinction is interesting because it means no one is actually being asked to give up a seat, in the standing areas you aren't assigned a place to stand, you either have a ticket to stand anywhere in the standing area, or it's a free for all and anyone with a seat or ticket can get as close to the stage as they can. Which explains people grabbing at her, whenever I worked concert security, stopping rowdy fans from climbing on stage or just grabbing at the performer from the floor was pretty much your whole job when you worked the front stage. Young female singers with rowdy male fans especially, some of the worst fights I ever got into was from stopping male fans trying to get grabby with young female singers, hormones and alcohol with just enough physical strength to make them dangerous, not a good combination.

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