Kinect Is Not For You

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The way I see it what happened was this:

- Nintendo releases its console targeting non-gamers. Sales skyrocked for the firt few months.
- Microsoft (and Sony - in fact, mentally add (and Sony) to every mention of Microsoft in this post, and (and Move) to every mention of Kinect for utmost realism) realized they were giving up a huge, unexplored market. Their execs turned into cartoons with big red faces and smoke coming out of their ears and told the devs to create something like the Wii.
- A few years later, the Wii turned out to not have been as good an idea as it first seemed. It had sold well and gained a nice market, but this new market didn't behave like gamers usually do. They didn't buy a new game every few months and couldn't give a flying crap about latest releases. In fact, most of them had only one or two games and didn't want to buy more.
- Execs realized that the Kinect was not going to work as well as they had hoped if bundled with the console, and the converted demographic wasn't the holy marketing grail they had thought it was. But by that time the Kinect was already far into the development schedule, so it's better to market it aggressively and hope it'll recoup costs than to just up and abandon a project that's eaten a few million dollars and is halfway complete.
- Execs hire Cirque du Soleil.

... And the rest is history.

A mate of mine is really looking forward to Kinect and I really can't see why. Aside from it's motion controlled user interface, nothing about it is worth it. Had it been cheaper, I'd think about getting it for that use alone, but it's current game line up doesn't interest me (or my mate for that matter, though he still wants it) and any games that either of us play would be much worse off if made for Kinect.

Even when it was first announced, all I ever saw was Microsoft trying to crack into Nintendos market, which is fine, but just never saw any use for the device outside of its targeted demo of casual players. Time will tell if my thoughts on it are proved wrong and it does end up having success with serious video game players, but I really don't see that happening.

A kinect RTS would be interesting... WHICH THEY PROBABLY WON'T MAKE!!!!! (well at least the way things are going right now)

I hope this succeeds with flying colors in baiting the foolish and uneducated people who can't tell the difference of what something offers and what it actually gives. (If you really want to play Kinect and know what you want, go for it!) Why? Because that means that Microsoft gets more money from the "casual gamer" market to make decent 1st party games.

It's no dumber than the Avatar marketplace, but that's apparently done pretty well for itself. Blobpie has a point, a RTS with this thing could be nifty, but instead they'd rather release virtual animals to slap around and virtual children to stalk us through our TVs.

J.P. Sherman:
Snip

Microsoft's plan with Kinect is simple.

Copy and paste everything Nintendo did four years ago with the wii that got them the patented "Nintendo money throne."

Of course the Wii has jumped from that and know are trying to bank on it's players found childhood memories and attract back its hardcores with its new Metroid, Zelda, Kirby, Donkey Kong Country, and everything on the 3DS.

The Random One:
The way I see it what happened was this:

- Nintendo releases its console targeting non-gamers. Sales skyrocked for the firt few months.
- Microsoft (and Sony - in fact, mentally add (and Sony) to every mention of Microsoft in this post, and (and Move) to every mention of Kinect for utmost realism) realized they were giving up a huge, unexplored market. Their execs turned into cartoons with big red faces and smoke coming out of their ears and told the devs to create something like the Wii.
- A few years later, the Wii turned out to not have been as good an idea as it first seemed. It had sold well and gained a nice market, but this new market didn't behave like gamers usually do. They didn't buy a new game every few months and couldn't give a flying crap about latest releases. In fact, most of them had only one or two games and didn't want to buy more.
- Execs realized that the Kinect was not going to work as well as they had hoped if bundled with the console, and the converted demographic wasn't the holy marketing grail they had thought it was. But by that time the Kinect was already far into the development schedule, so it's better to market it aggressively and hope it'll recoup costs than to just up and abandon a project that's eaten a few million dollars and is halfway complete.
- Execs hire Cirque du Soleil.

... And the rest is history.

Not quite yet, since Nintendo is being smart and knows that the only game people buy in mass is its first party titles. So, they are shoveling them out like nobodies buisness (I assume you have the Metroid: Other M on you add bars to right now). Not to mention the shift in focus from the wii to the upcoming 3DS.

Rack:

The_Emperor:
Nice article.
all you guys who own the xbox and feel "betrayed"...

it's not like they are going to stop making "core" games how can a company betray you by making more money which will inevitably lead to better, more numerous AAA games?

I think the reason I and other Xbox gamers feel "betrayed" is that MS already HAVE stopped making core games. If you look at the upcoming releases Sony have 5-6 times as many exclusive core titles as MS in 2010, go as far as 2011 and it's infinity times, MS have literally stopped making anything except for trashy minigame compilations and are making no efforts at all to secure third party titles. Even the bloody Wii has more core titles incoming in 2011 than the 360 has.

I do agree they have probably slowed down production of core titles, what I mean is, is spending all your time on core titles false economy? When eventually, after the megabucks roll in, they can spam loads of them and end up having more core titles over all?

thats if it succeeds.

I agree PS3 seems to be pumping out more exclusives atm. They dont have much to do than reverse engineer the wiimote though to make move :P

If it does take off and they start to ignore core gamers rather than pump up exclusive production I will buy a PS3 because that would be poor businessmanship on MS behalf. I don't want to have to buy a PS3 though 'cos I dont like the pads at all :(

The hardware will sell, the games wont. Same with Wii.

Never thought of it that way.
Thanks for clearing it up :D

And Yahtzee just told me not call myself a gamer. There might not be really "hardcore" games on this toy, but I bet it's gonna have some superb sports games. FIFA 11: Kinect version. Can't wait for it.

Listen, I just dont see the Kinect taking off. They made a mistake building this thing and are going to ride it all the way into the ground. You can buy an entire other system, for around the same price, this isnt just a snag, it's probably one of the worst move's they made in recent memory

The question is not whether or not kinect is going to matter to the core gaming audience, but if it's going to matter after the 'gimmick crazed crowd' sales die out.

RebellionXXI:
It's not a bad idea, in theory anyway. 'Casual' gamers certainly are a new and expanding market for video games.

There's just one problem.

CASUAL GAMERS ARE NOT GOING TO SPEND OVER $450 ON A VIDEO GAME SYSTEM WHEN THEY CAN HAVE FARMVILLE FOR FREE!

The success of the Wii in the casual gaming market is almost certainly directly related to its price point. At almost $100 less than its competitors, it represented a worthy investment to a market segment that doesn't play a lot of games, but wanted to try something novel and interesting. Now with the Wii console costing a mere $150, I just don't see 'casual' gamers shelling out three times as much for a gimmick with no guarantees of real enjoyment.

Granted, I'm not a professional marketer, but I don't know anyone who would shell out this kind of cash for a gaming peripheral or a console/peripheral bundle BESIDES a hardcore gamer. I think Microsoft is making a huge mistake by going this route.

Thank you, Thank you, Thank you. I'm glad somebody said it. That one point, is such an obvious fact to everyone. Except Microsoft... weird?

All I can say is, BAWWWW

The_Emperor:

Rack:

The_Emperor:
Nice article.
all you guys who own the xbox and feel "betrayed"...

it's not like they are going to stop making "core" games how can a company betray you by making more money which will inevitably lead to better, more numerous AAA games?

I think the reason I and other Xbox gamers feel "betrayed" is that MS already HAVE stopped making core games. If you look at the upcoming releases Sony have 5-6 times as many exclusive core titles as MS in 2010, go as far as 2011 and it's infinity times, MS have literally stopped making anything except for trashy minigame compilations and are making no efforts at all to secure third party titles. Even the bloody Wii has more core titles incoming in 2011 than the 360 has.

I do agree they have probably slowed down production of core titles, what I mean is, is spending all your time on core titles false economy? When eventually, after the megabucks roll in, they can spam loads of them and end up having more core titles over all?

Doesn't work that way unfortunately. They dropped support for core titles about 18 months ago by the looks of things, and we're just now feeling the effects. If they use the money from Kinect to fund core games then we'll see the effect of that in 2013-2014 as it takes time to gear things up. That would be running close to the end of the 360s lifespan I expect so really this is the end of the 360 as a viable gamers system. Sure we'll continue to see plenty of multiplatform titles and seizure em ups but the PS3 is going to get more and more clearly defined as the gamers system of choice.

Interesting idea. Business decisions from Microsoft makes logical sense but I'm not convinced it will play through. the Xbox will have to rebrand itself for the casual space, it's not as if it has a family friendly image.

Secondly the novelty factor of you being the controller is, in my opinion, hardly a huge leap from a small remote control (looking at the Nintendo's marketing, the controller hardly imposes itself as a restriction). I think microsoft are trying to take itself into a market that's already educated in motion based gaming and the opportunity isn't as lucrative as it used to be.

Last point, microsoft's competition analysis doesn't inspire confidence. Most points in microsoft's case would primarily favour an audience who would be categorised as hardcore (improved graphics, adult games, established audience), also they're taking on an established market leader without much innovation, at a higher price. I'm pretty sure there is a marketing triangle tool for competition analysis that shows that you need to have unique selling point of some sort, though the name escapes me.

Microsoft have been playing catch up in a general sense over most of their businesses for the last few years, though I appreciate and believe strongly in competition it does seem to me microsoft generally seem inflexible when having to take on competitors.

Of course I may end up wrong in the long run, but the uncertainty makes this all exciting. Looking forward to seeing the marketing mix.

Is it just me, or does the author repeat his point over and over until the article is 3 pages long?

I'm not very excited about kinect for gaming. But what gets me wet is the idea of kinect technology as a gesture UI for PCs. Combine with non-suck voice recognition and it really is the interface all of those sci fi movies have been promising for so long.

Powerman88:
First off, very interesting article again. I, as a "core" gamer (I hate that term), have no real interest in Kinet and am more excited about Civilization 5 which will have way too much sophistication to be controlled by waving your arms about.

CORRODED SIN:
"People who play games" aka 90% of the playlist population in MW2. (RIP CoD)

When did you start playing games? When it became cool? Fuck off back to Farmville.

What does Xbox LIVE really need? Oh, I know, more children! Fuck that.

Women aged 25-40 say, "You are welcome, Microsoft, for our continued, relentless product loyalty over the past 9 years." ...wait a minute.

At least Sony hasn't sold out much....YET.

/rant

THIS is why everyone hates "core" gamers. Man, where to start on this.
Most casual players aren't playing MW2. The ones who are have decided, usually, that they want want to tr a core gaming experience, but are usually scared away by "core gamers" themselves who won't consider there are a lot of people who haven't grown up with fps and find their lack of skill unacceptable; thus alienating a new audience from enjoying a game.

If someone hasn't been playing videogames since 1986 (like me. fuck off) it doesn't mean they are relegated to farmville. Believe it or not the more people who play core games, the more fantastic core games get made. Videogames are a business, and the more money they make the more money get put into them. You don't need an economics degree to figure that out.

Okay, xbox live doesn't need more douchey kids. You got me there ;)

How can you say Sony, a multi billion dollar international corporation hasn't sold out? I mean really?

These attitudes are the biggest problem with "core" gaming. Games, as the name would suggest, are fun and you can't be mad a people who want to try new things just because we've liked them longer. Its a horrible attitude and should not be socially acceptable.

Personally, I don't really care for the terms either. I would much rather just be a "gamer" and not a "core/hardcore" gamer. But with the new influx of "people who play games," the terms have to be used. Thank you Wii. I know it was really negative, but things I've seen in recent days regarding the "poeple who play games" have really urked at me, and this article just kind of put me in rant-mode, which I rarely do.

I would actually prefer if people hated core gamers. They would all leave our games alone. And actually if you look at other media, something being more popular, getting more money invested in it, does not have a great track record for quality. This is what worries me. EG: CoD is popular beyond what we "core" gamers know, and Activision is throwing all kinds of money at it, and I think the quality is going downhill, and it's losing it's original fanbase.

I have no idea what I was trying to say with the Sony comment.

I thought it was a good article. Thank you for writing it. I still believe that the waggle direction and high pricing, is a bit foolish. As @RebellionXXI said very clearly. "CASUAL GAMERS ARE NOT GOING TO SPEND OVER $450 ON A VIDEO GAME SYSTEM WHEN THEY CAN HAVE FARMVILLE FOR FREE!"

And he's right. This simple fact seems obvious to me, I don't really understand why Microsoft doesn't see this too?

DrDarkStryfe:
It should be interesting to see how the Kinect, and the PS Move, will do. Will they be the bridge that the Wii has not been for the gaming industry, getting all of those new gamers to purchase more traditional titles?

No. Why? Because I can not think of one person who apon finishing a session of Wii-golf says "Well that was a load of fun, but know what would be even better? Blasting some aliens to pieces."

There is a reason this market of soccer moms and Grandmas wasn't tapped before; they don't find "hardcore" games entertaining.

Giest4life:
And Yahtzee just told me not call myself a gamer. There might not be really "hardcore" games on this toy, but I bet it's gonna have some superb sports games. FIFA 11: Kinect version. Can't wait for it.

Well considering sports games are at best a subtle fuck you to gamers, I don't think that will carry Kinect

Blobpie:
A kinect RTS would be interesting... WHICH THEY PROBABLY WON'T MAKE!!!!! (well at least the way things are going right now)

Well considering the RTS is about as far away from "casual" as one can get while gaming, I'm gonna say it womt happen

Fuhjem:
Just because a major game company is now trying to tailor to the casuals, that doesn't mean we won't be forgotten.

Core gamers are still the cornerstone of the gaming industry.

And the minority if this keeps up.

Powerman88:
First off, very interesting article again. I, as a "core" gamer (I hate that term), have no real interest in Kinet and am more excited about Civilization 5 which will have way too much sophistication to be controlled by waving your arms about.

CORRODED SIN:
"People who play games" aka 90% of the playlist population in MW2. (RIP CoD)

When did you start playing games? When it became cool? Fuck off back to Farmville.

What does Xbox LIVE really need? Oh, I know, more children! Fuck that.

Women aged 25-40 say, "You are welcome, Microsoft, for our continued, relentless product loyalty over the past 9 years." ...wait a minute.

At least Sony hasn't sold out much....YET.

/rant

THIS is why everyone hates "core" gamers. Man, where to start on this.
Most casual players aren't playing MW2. The ones who are have decided, usually, that they want want to tr a core gaming experience, but are usually scared away by "core gamers" themselves who won't consider there are a lot of people who haven't grown up with fps and find their lack of skill unacceptable; thus alienating a new audience from enjoying a game.

If someone hasn't been playing videogames since 1986 (like me. fuck off) it doesn't mean they are relegated to farmville. Believe it or not the more people who play core games, the more fantastic core games get made. Videogames are a business, and the more money they make the more money get put into them. You don't need an economics degree to figure that out.

Okay, xbox live doesn't need more douchey kids. You got me there ;)

How can you say Sony, a multi billion dollar international corporation hasn't sold out? I mean really?

These attitudes are the biggest problem with "core" gaming. Games, as the name would suggest, are fun and you can't be mad a people who want to try new things just because we've liked them longer. Its a horrible attitude and should not be socially acceptable.

I agree that people shouldn't be douche bags, but I can see where this rant is coming from. With all this emphasis on casual gamers, I can't help but feel that I got locked out of my own home. I mean really, what is coming out this fall for 'serious' gamers? Gears of War 3. Halo Reach. The rest is this dumb gimickey stuff like Kinect Animals.

Were getting screwed over because everybody looks at Farmville and says "Wow that is a massive untapped market, if I started making stuff for them I would be rich!" So they bend over and kiss the casual gamers asses, While the 'hardcore' get shoved to the wayside, despite sustaining the market for all these years.

The worst part is this "casual" market sees this only as a fad. How many bought Wii when it came out? How many still use theirs on a day to day basis?

/rant

funkzillabot:

RebellionXXI:
It's not a bad idea, in theory anyway. 'Casual' gamers certainly are a new and expanding market for video games.

There's just one problem.

CASUAL GAMERS ARE NOT GOING TO SPEND OVER $450 ON A VIDEO GAME SYSTEM WHEN THEY CAN HAVE FARMVILLE FOR FREE!

The success of the Wii in the casual gaming market is almost certainly directly related to its price point. At almost $100 less than its competitors, it represented a worthy investment to a market segment that doesn't play a lot of games, but wanted to try something novel and interesting. Now with the Wii console costing a mere $150, I just don't see 'casual' gamers shelling out three times as much for a gimmick with no guarantees of real enjoyment.

Granted, I'm not a professional marketer, but I don't know anyone who would shell out this kind of cash for a gaming peripheral or a console/peripheral bundle BESIDES a hardcore gamer. I think Microsoft is making a huge mistake by going this route.

Thank you, Thank you, Thank you. I'm glad somebody said it. That one point, is such an obvious fact to everyone. Except Microsoft... weird?

Not at all weird. Because, I think, what you meant to say was, this is an obvious fact for consumers, but not Microsoft's business-oriented marketers who don't play video games and never will.

Seriously, I wouldn't be surprised if Microsoft execs are the types who would fire their staff if they found out they played WoW.

By that slightly stinging definition, I guess I'm not longer a gamer.

I don't have the free time to play video games on a daily basis and I only purchase one or two games every few months.

Aside from that, I hope that the Kinect and Move fail so that this "motion sensor" gaming approach would just die off. I don't play on the Wii because its fancy with it's motion sensors. It's just the next generation Nintendo console and I need it to play Super Smash Brothers or Zelda games. (The latter of two unfortunately requires some swishing of the controller)

TheGreatCoolEnergy:

I agree that people shouldn't be douche bags, but I can see where this rant is coming from. With all this emphasis on casual gamers, I can't help but feel that I got locked out of my own home. I mean really, what is coming out this fall for 'serious' gamers? Gears of War 3. Halo Reach. The rest is this dumb gimickey stuff like Kinect Animals.

Were getting screwed over because everybody looks at Farmville and says "Wow that is a massive untapped market, if I started making stuff for them I would be rich!" So they bend over and kiss the casual gamers asses, While the 'hardcore' get shoved to the wayside, despite sustaining the market for all these years.

The worst part is this "casual" market sees this only as a fad. How many bought Wii when it came out? How many still use theirs on a day to day basis?

/rant

I really do appreciate the way you feel but the facts don't support this common argument. As one of the PC gamer master race I sometimes feel way more neglected than my console brethren. Then I realize that Starcraft 2 just came out (Activision btw) and that Civilization 5 is coming out in September. Tropico 3 has been announced for a q2-q3 release next year as well.

Even we PC strategy nerds have lots of AAA titles coming out and as long as the companies who make them make money they will continue to come out. Casual gamers will come and go. Some will go on to really enjoy gaming. Some won't. We will still be here getting the amazing titles we want and deserve. Also Dragon Age 2 w00t! The Old Republic! Deus Ex! Seriously? Fallout: New Vegas, Fable 3 (I'm psyched, shut up), and so much more! So much for us "core" gamers to be excited about! How about the news for the new Batman: Arkham Asylum followup? I also just downloaded the Scott Pilgrim game on XBLA. Tons of fun and super old school in a good way.

Farmville hasn't affected it yet and I don't see them ruining it for us. Rejoice my "core" friends!

So, I'm a bit confused. It seems that the premise of the article author is that M$ can market to core gamers, OR it can market to moms, kids, etc (casual or non-core gamers), but it cannot do both.

Really?

Because M$ is tapped for cash or something? Because M$ cannot identify different media outlets that could deliver a different marketing message to core gamers versus non-core gamers?

Yeah, not sure I'm buying that either. So, Mr Author, how about explaining why it benefits M$ to cause feelings of alienation in their exisitng customers when I would submit they could both market to core gamers, and to non-core gamers, at the same time using a targetted media/message approach.

Rack:

The_Emperor:

Rack:
[quote="The_Emperor" post="6.227710.7838663"]Nice article.
all you guys who own the xbox and feel "betrayed"...

Doesn't work that way unfortunately. They dropped support for core titles about 18 months ago by the looks of things, and we're just now feeling the effects. If they use the money from Kinect to fund core games then we'll see the effect of that in 2013-2014 as it takes time to gear things up. That would be running close to the end of the 360s lifespan I expect so really this is the end of the 360 as a viable gamers system. Sure we'll continue to see plenty of multiplatform titles and seizure em ups but the PS3 is going to get more and more clearly defined as the gamers system of choice.

I agree there may be less core titles but to write the system off completely is an exaggeration. I would hazard a guess that they would be spending projected figures, using savings, and profit from software sales as quite rightly you point out it will take time to make profit on Kinect (if it doesn't crash and burn).

gears 3? next forza? next mass effect? there will be less but they havent stopped support for core games completely. I do sorta think ps3 will eventually become gamers choice if xbox doesn't step up its game but I still think the 360 is a viable game machine. I'm even looking forward to fable 3. It will die quicker than ps3 though but by that time they will start making the Zcube 720 or something I bet to keep the money train a flowin :P. Either that or do a Sega. I hope they dont I REEEEEAAALLLY hate those ps3 pads lol. Convex analog pad tips ftw.

I don't think kinect is going to take as much focus as people think or resources. I'm not even sure kinect will take off because if they make sucky games for it noone will want one. We won't see any good games for it until the 2nd or 3rd wave and by then it might be too late...

It's all too close to call atm

craigdolphin:
So, I'm a bit confused. It seems that the premise of the article author is that M$ can market to core gamers, OR it can market to moms, kids, etc (casual or non-core gamers), but it cannot do both.

Really?

Because M$ is tapped for cash or something? Because M$ cannot identify different media outlets that could deliver a different marketing message to core gamers versus non-core gamers?

Yeah, not sure I'm buying that either. So, Mr Author, how about explaining why it benefits M$ to cause feelings of alienation in their exisitng customers when I would submit they could both market to core gamers, and to non-core gamers, at the same time using a targetted media/message approach.

With respect, Mr Dolphin, I would be leery about telling a professional marketer his business, unless you are one as well.
And for all I know, you are.

However - as much as his column seems to anger people I personally find this column interesting, and I hear a great similarity between what he is saying and for example, what "MovieBob" says about the movie industry, what some of my musician friends complain about, and what "gamers" have always said, to be honest.

Did you perhaps read Shamus's Xcom piece? Why are they using that IP, to get the 14 people who remember it?

If that fails to illustrate, I can clearly remember when if anyone would have said "Core Gamer" that meant the people that still owned "Blackmoor" and the original "Deities and Demigods" complaining that the bought-out TSR was screwing them by marketing their beloved game to the infantile "comic book" demographic - even made a cartoon and a new, less dark, more kid-friendly world called "forgotten realms"... and dragonlance.
Watering it down, they said. And sure, but the truth was, that market was FAR LARGER. No one CARED that the original "core" demographic was left behind, it was business.

The "core" audience for the computer games such as Xcom or "the gold box series" barely count as a NICHE to modern game sales. Has the audience for such games increased by? what? 100 fold?
Hell no. Games sell more because they made them ACCESSIBLE to a larger audience.

Almost no music I really like has ever been played on the radio, but the watered-down bands they influenced are.
Almost every movie i really like loses money...
TV shows I like have to be on obscure networks, and could be out-ratings-ed :) by any cheesy reality show.
Big companies don't make music, games, movies, or books - or anything else unless there is an audience,

and the way i see it, the current "core" gamers, who don't recall when things were watered down to include THEIR demographic, are now seeing what it is like when games, etc are no longer made for THEIR demographic.

There's a larger, more important market. BE prepared to become even more niche.

And to respond to Mr Penguin - in my (admittedly limited )experience, it is actually pretty difficult, generally, to market something - any product - to both a "mainstream" market and a niche or "hardcore" audience simultaneously.

Surely we have all seen idiocracy?

Wonderfully written. Thank you for sharing.

I'm not getting kinect to game, I am geting it to video chat with friends and browse through the menus better.They will likely update the dashboard too to suit it, so that will be fun.

um...maybe its not for core gamers cause...it wasn't built for them but casuals?
I find it funny how supposed ""core"" gamers actually think they dictate video game trends and such...they don't...Casuals have controlled the industry since the begining, what sells wins..casuals outnumber core gamers 2000/1 once you learn that you'll live much happier.

Kinect is meant for casuals the market that the Wii is capturing..not for ""core gamers""
this is quite a bad article First person marketer and its the first I've read of yours..not a good sign.

So are you saying the gaming's biggest promoter of douchebag gray-brown FPS's are turning tail and trying to out-Wii the Wii?
Good! It'll be nice to have some color in their games, and to get their "hardcore" 13 year old douchebag homophobes out of the house for a change.

I pray that this will finally be an end to Halo, Gears of War, Modern Warfare 2 and the looooooooong string of the "hardcore" trend.
Or maybe they'll move to the PS3 and have to directly compete with Killzone 2 and Resistance.

Also, I genuinely laugh out loud each time someone points to this kind of thing and says "it's killing REAL gaming", as opposed to the trend of mediocre "hardcore" copycat sequels made so far.

They certainly have that plan down to a T...making sure its in as many houses, like the Wii...I bet after then they will come after the core market, but we are already feeling the chill from it all...

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