Zero Punctuation: Kinect

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So...you want me to buy a new piece of equipment for the chance that some game might implement a system for waving to people or brushing curtains away? I am not sure that the Kinect really has any potential in gaming until it becomes more responsive.

It's going to have to do way more than just "add something" to my gameplay experience for me to actually want to buy it.

Sansha:
Unexpected, but I knew Ben had a problem with the Kinect for a while. I'm actually glad he made this, because I've always been wanting to see his thoughts in full on it.

It really does sound like gimmicky bullshit, but I don't get his problem with the lack of immersion or feedback. Not every game has to grab you by the scrotum and yank you into its world. I think the Wii and Kinect are supposed to keep you grounded in reality with the whole 'lol im playing a video game!' feel.

While I understand that immersion is not necessary for all games, it's a requirement for horror games. No one wants a "lol, I'm playing a video game" experience when looking for a horror game.

That sounds like a design flaw from the dev.

I hear the connect does well with sports simulators though.

I was hoping for Dark Souls, but I have a feeling you'll save that for a lull.
Nice episode, but questionable games. Would have liked to hear more about the Kinect in stead of the games, given the name of the episode.

Well for doing movements with a controller and "other things" by kinetic... couldn't you just put a "Dance-Dance-Revolution" board on the ground while playing?

I think the problem with motion controls is that they are not being used to define a new paradigm of interaction with the game(i.e. a set of movements and actions that are intrinsic to the gameplay and game mechanics). Instead, they are just being used to map same old standard button pushes to some arbitrary unique gesture(this is so each button push is uniquely identifiable). The movements are not designed as a continuous, choreographed flow from one set of postures and movements to another. Essentially, the motions need to matched with gameplay and game mechanics such to create a sort of smooth, precise dance, as opposed to an epileptic fit.

One could look at games like Dance Dance Revolution and argue that what I'm talking about is garbage because there was a dancing game with motion controls, but when you go through the motions, you like like a perplexed elephant stamping about with concrete blocks for feet. But, the problem with such games is they were still designed in the button-pushing paradigm and not designed with a more kinesthetic paradigm.

What I'm talking about would be a game where the progression of motion, postures, and gestures would look more like a smooth ballet or practicing of connected katas. The entire game would be an act of learning how to connect the motions and learning which motions, postures, and gestures naturally transition into each other such to create a singular, practiced flow of motion. Precision of angles, speed, and timing would all be important to the movements. Such a game could not only be entertaining but also provide great exercise, as well as improve dexterity and coordination. One could use such games to do things like actually learning how to dance, learning some martial arts, or, as mentioned, just engaging in some fun exercise(imagine a sci-fi space shooter with some rhythmically pumping trance or electronica that you have to actually dance to control, and I mean really dance, not the elephant-stomping DDR-style dancing).

So, in summary, motion controls generally suck because they are being used as simple mappings to traditional button-pushes rather than being used as the intrinsic new paradigm of control that they actually represent. One has to think outside the very small box of current traditional mainstream game design.

I guess Yahtzee is taking it it easy since he has some heavy reviewing to do, you know, with the Shooter Season pumping into full swing now.

Also, I'd pay to see Yahtzee Riverdance.

I've actually had very few detection problems with my Kinect, and when I have had problems, it was because I was trying to cram two players into the same space at once.

I did have to move a couch out of the way, admittedly, but I can only assume Yahtzee's living room is larger than mine anyways.

Although I couldn't really get it to work while sitting down, which is a shame because I'd like to just sit down while playing The Gunstringer.

The Kinect hates disable people, especially people in wheelchairs.

With that said, besides the lack of good gaming choices, it is still a great piece of technology with it's true potential just being discovered.

Gotta love how intuitive you "critique" motion controls so I'm glad Kinect was next on the list.

Got a few chuckles along the way,so thank you for that.

And looking forward to see the "heavy games" that come out in the next weeks getting ripped to shreds.:P

Battlefield 3 Review coming soon. I have a prediction. Rubbish single player game and no mention of multi-player (you know the thing the series was built on) as Yahtzee doesn't do multi-player....

Otherwise enjoyed the Kinect Review.

geizr:
What I'm talking about would be a game where the progression of motion, postures, and gestures would look more like a smooth ballet or practicing of connected katas. The entire game would be an act of learning how to connect the motions and learning which motions, postures, and gestures naturally transition into each other such to create a singular, practiced flow of motion. Precision of angles, speed, and timing would all be important to the movements. Such a game could not only be entertaining but also provide great exercise, as well as improve dexterity and coordination. One could use such games to do things like actually learning how to dance, learning some martial arts, or, as mentioned, just engaging in some fun exercise(imagine a sci-fi space shooter with some rhythmically pumping trance or electronica that you have to actually dance to control, and I mean really dance, not the elephant-stomping DDR-style dancing).

So, in summary, motion controls generally suck because they are being used as simple mappings to traditional button-pushes rather than being used as the intrinsic new paradigm of control that they actually represent. One has to think outside the very small box of current traditional mainstream game design.

I agree; it's not the technology itself that's the problem, it's the way in which developers are using it in their games.

Neverhoodian:
I cracked up at the "Well hello there, Councilor Troi" wanking scene (though I'm more of a Dr. Crusher fan myself).

Yeah, about that. Uh.... source?

I wonder if some day Microsoft will release a system that only needs three months of patching before it's functional as opposed to two years. Kinect being fucking broken was my sign that Rapture sadly wasn't coming this year.

Ah well. Looking forward to the Batman: Arkham City review and Yahtzee's reaction to Joker singing during the end credits.

Using kinect as your exclusive control system doesn't necessarily have to be bad, if developers could get over the whole 1-to-1 correspondence thing. is using my legs to control movement more realistic? Yes. Is it good game design? No. If we must eschew controllers altogether then map movement to the left hand and actions to the right. there are an infinite number of arm gestures we can make to analog to the various functions, using the legs for more than the occasional curb-stomp or w/e is only going to irritate your players.

I liked Yahtzee's merging-with-the-couch thing, that is so what the Kinect encourages you to do, even if your living room is a decent size. "You will have a better experience if you move further back." Oh, ok, I'll just phase through the wall then!

I found it difficult playing a two-player game with my 7-year old son, as the Kinect seemingly dislikes having to track two people of very different heights. It especially had trouble detecting his movements, even though he was very patiently and precisely doing what it said.

I have a connect... I mean kinect, whatever. I never wanted it, and I still don't want it. I needed (edit: wanted) a new Xbox and the only ones I could find were those shiny black ones with a kinect and an extra $100 price tag. Suffice to say the kinect has been in my drawer for months now, gathering dust and waiting for the nurture it shall never receive.

In fact, I'm going to open my drawer now and laugh at it... then close it again for another few months.

Bacaruda:
Indeed I agree with your last thought about the use of Kinect. It will never be any good for games unless you have an easy way of moving around. So, sitting in your couch with a controller and from time to time doing some gestures seems more logical to me.

Back when Kinect was called "Project Natal" that's one of the first ways they talked about implementing it. I don't remember who said it or the exact quote, but a Microsoft talking head said something along the lines of, "Imagine playing a Halo game with the standard controls you've come to expect, but instead of pushing a button to throw a grenade you (makes a grenade-throwing motion) to make it happen."

MichaelMaverick:
Wow. Yahtzee will have a LOT of work after this. Assuming he'll care at all and doesn't just ignore half the games. Which will probably end up being the case.

Well, you have to THEN consider that Australia gets butt fucked money AND release date wise, Battle Field 3 just came out today, so he can't review it since he needs time.

OhJohnNo:
Yahtzee is like the pope?

Well, from the way some fans treat him... :p

I knew he'd hate it, but still, it was funny. As always.

Oh so true, I'm waiting for him to get back to me on baptizing my non-existent baby.

ph0b0s123:
Battlefield 3 Review coming soon. I have a prediction. Rubbish single player game and no mention of multi-player (you know the thing the series was built on) as Yahtzee doesn't do multi-player....

Otherwise enjoyed the Kinect Review.

He says it has something to do with why implement a single player when your game is multi player designed. Also he said something about how you can never gurantee quality of multiplayer, FOR EXAPMLE in Left 4 Dead you could be easily trolled, therefore, the quality of multiplayer just dropped.

Wow he was serious with "Fuck Space Marine." Troll them fanboys, Yatzhee.

"6' 5" of solidified handsome"
That's good. I might start using it.

And the idea of Kinect being used as a side piece in games is a good concept. Shame that (like all your other good suggestions) it'll never be recognised.

kinect will be awesome...

... once humanity figured out how to use it.

Yahtzee using a Kinect?

Will wonders never cease to happen? :)

IŽll just leave this here

MrDeckard:

God I hope he trashes Arkham City next week...

Same, not because I dislike the game, because I want to see batman themed pictures thru out the review :)

Sansha:

Then again, the idea of using a normal controller and some stuff that's motion control is a neat idea, but no developer will go for that because they would want to use and capitalize on the technology as much as possible.

Mass Effect 3, Forza 4 and Ghost Recon: Future Soldier to name but 3 high budget titles.

daxterx2005:

MrDeckard:

God I hope he trashes Arkham City next week...

Same, not because I dislike the game, because I want to see batman themed pictures thru out the review :)

Though I DID somewhat dislike it, this is also a good reason!

Batman pictures make everything better.

:D

Funny when I used the Kinect everything worked fine. Well when I played Kinect Sports everything operated like it should. We (me and my father) played the harry potter game for the kinect and it was a disaster. We experienced that worn out shoulder problem yathzee got. The kinect doesn't have very many games available for it but he certainly chose one of the worse ones. Then again the best kinect games are more or less wii play clones So I dunno.

I liked the kinect more than the wii the sensor was easier to deal with seeing as my body was the object it was looking for and not some ditzy remote I had to point in a specific spot to know that I was there.

Did yathzee even calibrate his kinect?

I just laughed so hard where the Griffin turned around and it had a mustache!
Bloody Brilliant! :D

Yatzhee reminded me... I would buy Kinect if these things were actually possible.


But alas, Microsoft (and definetely Sony too) would never allow Adult titles on their consoles... Shame because I think this kind of motion controller use would revolutionize the ero-gaming market. Actually I think ero-gaming is one of the only genres where motion controllers would actually make sense.

brain...oh, brian

BOLLOCKS

So Yahtzee made the same observation about the Kinect's space requirements that Paul Saunders did a year ago (with followup).

Shameless:
Well, that wasn't as harsh as I thought it would be.

Same here. Anyway, it really does seem to be best for the Kinect to perform supplementary functions. I played Child of Eden, and it was good. I used the Kinect for the whole game, and yes, there were several instances of it fucking up, but otherwise it was effective.

josemlopes:
IŽll just leave this here

this game is pretty much what Yahtzee described am i right?

10 points for the after dark flying toaster reference, ben.

I have to disagree, Yahtzee. I'm over 40 and fuck exercise.

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