The Big Picture: Batfleck

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Although I didn't have the same problems as Bob with TDKR, I agree that this Batman will be a welcome change and Afleck might even do it better than Bale. However, having not read the comics, I don't really see why he'd be versing Superman...

Wow you went off on a left wing tangent there towards the end.

I have no problem with Aflek being the new Batman. Christian Bale just wouldn't have worked, Christopher Nolans world is just too real work into a superhero combined universe (If he'd made the Lazarus Pits real, it might have worked). That and the story has a pretty definitive ending. My main problem is with Superman. The new one just made too much of a mess to work as a foundation of a Marvel style Justice League. I don't even know what the source of this new Supermans powers are (is it the gravity, is it the air, the food, the sun, hope? I don't know) or what his weakness is if one even exists. The morals made no sense, Supermans personality seemed wrong, his secret identity is already blown, ext ext ext. The movie is an in cohesive pile of mush and it's supposed to be the corner stone?

Adding batman isn't going to help. It's like making the 2003 Hulk movie the corner stone of the avengers, making direct sequel to and trying to fix the issues by adding Iron Man rather than them making the first Iron Man movie the corner stone. They really just need to drop this superman movie in the Green Lantern bin, don't make it part of the Justice League continuity and start again with a different founder. If you don't want Batman again, do Wonder Woman or the Flash, then a re-re-reboot of superman, and batman, and maybe Green Lantern and more. They should all be stand alones with no big crossovers. Once you have 3 or 4 properties established on their own footings (keeping a bigger world in mind and referenced) then you can do crossovers and the big Justice league movie.

I'm ready for Affleck to pleasantly surprise everyone. He clearly has acting skills, and as everyone points out, it's not like Heath Ledger was anybody's first pick for Joker. But...

varmintx:
I don't particularly care who plays Batman, I'm disappointed I won't be getting a new film directed by Ben Affleck because of this. The man's 3/3 and I was really looking forward to his next one.

This. Affleck strikes me as a much better director than actor. By my understanding he was confirmed to direct the new adaptation of Stephen King's The Stand, which I was really looking forward to, but now has dropped that project to go be Batman. I'd rather see more of him behind the camera than in front of it, but if the DC universe takes off at anywhere near the level that Marvel's movies have, he'll be playing Batman for the next decade.

Though, if they let him direct any piece of this project as Bob mentioned, I'll feel a lot better about it.

Finally. While I have disagreed plenty of times in the past with Bob over many topics, I am in agreement in more ways than just Ben Affleck, such as the Dark Knight Returns. My problem is given the reveal quote they used, you know this is going to be something of a...

BATMAN! FUCK YEAH!

...then if they go Justice League make him in charge just because the character is popular.

I'm no doubt more of a DC guy than Marvel but Marvel is more than pounding DC into the dirt with their live-action movies and given the mainstream's view of these characters is shaped by movies most of all, even if you don't like that, makes me sad for all these DC greats.

I really want a Wonder Woman film but I don't trust anyone to make it. DC's mishandling and the fact female leads are rarely done, let alone done well. It would be terrible within this decade, sadly.

Damn, that last part was a sledge hammer to my brain nads, Batmans abit of a dick.

Yeah i was always more concerned with the whole vs. rubbish, after watching MoS i found it weird how i liked Batman more as a person than Superman hell the 3 Batmovies movies where more hopeful and inspiring than that film.

I hope Ben does get script duty because MoS was poor, he felt like one big troll.

Is there really an obsession with The Dark Knight Returns? I like it an'all but that's an extreme representation not even a definitive one.

Flexei:
Judging by Bob's Boston accent being more prevalent than usual in this one, he must be pretty fired up. :)

It got pretty irritating towards the end, to the point that I was thinking negative thoughts about Boston sports teams, although I'm not sure if Bob really cares about them.

Yeah, I was happy with the news that Ben Affleck was going to be Batman. If there's any concern, it's that such a big name might overshadow Cavill's Superman, but that's a really minor worry. I really hope some lessons have been learned from the Dark Knight Trilogy and Man of Steel, action is good but keep the tone light as we should be having fun and please no more stupid voices.

Hades:
I know Bob suddenly decided to completely hate on Batman rises after his quite moderately critically review of the movie but Rises a debacle on par with Green lantern? come on! It wasn't even a bad movie.

Actually the same goes for man of steel. His review called it good but disappointing and soon after that it became the worst thing ever according to him. Unlike with Rises bob actually admitted it with man of steel but no matter what you think of the new Superman it wasn't as bad as Green lantern, not nearly.

It is a phase with Bob. He is going to be hating on anything DC movie universe for quite a while.

templar1138a:
You can tell Bob's making a rant video when he's talking in his Boston accent.

Yeah, I didn't really care about Ben Affleck here. Why? Because I've long since lost interest in Superman. He's just too powerful for me to care. If they went back to his original power set where he couldn't fly, that'd be a good start. I might regain my interest if they also made it so that while his skin is bulletproof, the bullets still hurt quite a bit and he can suffer from burn wounds.

Oh, and if they stopped having him designed with poster-child gelled hair. That shit just instantly says, "Too good to be true" and ruins any suspension of disbelief.

Off-topic: dish can kiss my ass.

Superman can be a lot more interesting, once you open up the DC universe a bit. For one thing, he has no resitance to magic, and the expanded DC universe has tons of magicians running around, not to mention guys like Mongo or Darkseid, who are just so damn strong that they can beat the hell out of him regardless of his powers. You also run into some great moral grey areas that seriously mess with his boy scout personality.

A good series to watch for this sort of thing is Justice League Unlimited. It's technically a sequel series to Justice League, but I haven't watched that one, so I can't recommend it.

When everyone got up in arms about Affleck, I assumed their motivation was roughly the same as Weird Al's in the song "I'll Sue Ya":

"........Aw, do I even need a reason?"

Couldn't be less interesting. Superman = God. Regular old Batman is going to beat God? No. Unless he has Kryptonite... then he should win hands down without much of a struggle. Both of those are boring as hell.

Affleck is talented, and he'll be able to pull this off. But Bale wasn't that bad either. The DC universe has so much potential but its dragged down by terribly uninteresting characters.

Well said, Mr. Bob. However, I would like to add to Batfleck's resources in this. He will need...



Heh, my first thought was "Ben Affleck as Batman? Interesting choice... too bad it doesn't matter.. Zack Snyder one of my all time least favorite film makers is still behind this thing... that sprung out from Superman Kills a Guy: The Movie. If only they'd tapped him for directing duties instead."

Yeah...

:D Don't worry Bob. Andre already sold me on Ben, in about the same way you did. Hope he does well.

Also, Dx HEY! You didn't talk about your book with your accent!

:/ Lame....

Whoa, batman as a rich guy who wins by spending money isn't something I would have thought of. That's quite an interesting way to look at it.

Thanks.

RedDeadFred:
Although I didn't have the same problems as Bob with TDKR, I agree that this Batman will be a welcome change and Afleck might even do it better than Bale. However, having not read the comics, I don't really see why he'd be versing Superman...

Mostly coz batman is a paranoid control freak at heart and won't trust this unstoppable being. He won't trust him so will try to find a way to stop him.

This is how the film will break down. Paranoidman will suspect god is lying to humanity to control it or something, batman spends most of the reel finding out who this superman really is, where the fortress of solitude is, what his weaknesses are and has the odd confrontation with the big blue but no real fight. Sup on the other hand doesn't want to hurt bats so tries to talk to him instead of fight. You'll get philosophical toing and froing and a strange bromance starts to develope till some real big bad happens and they find that they work good together. Big hug at the end, bats goes to his Wayne tower over looking his kingdom and boy sout flies off into the beautiful sunset.

See if I'm wrong.

Deep Thought:
Is it just me or is Moviebob fed up with Batman in general? He really seemed to dislike the character in the video, or at least the modern "grim and gritty" interpretation of him.

Because that's all we've had in movies since 1989, batman Forever and Batman and Robin aside. the the guy ever seems to do is brood.

I really wish they'd go a more playful, comicky route, over the grimdark bull we got with The Dark Knight Rises and Man of Steel. But that's not going to happen; they're going to keep trying to ape The Dark Knight because it should have won an Oscar. I'd rather have an outstanding popcorn flick like The Avengers over a philosophical maze of delusions like TDK.

Which is why I'm still undecided (leaning against) Affleck as Batman. I can't see them picking him because he likes comic books or has done comedy or likes the character, I see them picking him because all of a sudden it's a serious film because it has serious actors, guys. This choice feels less like Mitt Romney and more like Sarah Palin.

Alright MovieBox, I have to give you credit. You really did lay down some good reasons why we shouldn't necessary panic over the whole idea of Ben Afleck taking on the role of Batman/Bruce Wayne...and then you suddenly went off on a bit of a rant. Firstly:

"Hold it, hold it, hold it, hold it, hold it, hold it! Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa! Nice shooting, Tex. " - Dr. Peter Venkman, Ghostbusters

I can appreciate some of what you said about Batman. The idea of him literally being prepared for basically ANYTHING just because he is that damn good, is more than a little stupid the more you hold to it. That is true. It can be fun at times, or scary (the Justice League: Doom movie comes to mind), but it has gotten overplayed and needs to fade away. And the idea that the "best" story that can be put together using both Batman and Superman is to have them fighting is, well flat out stupid and wrong. It's unimaginative.

But saying Batman can be looked at as "Mitt Romney with a doomsday bunker and a leather fetish" is vastly overstating it. And how is the mythos that Batman is a tactical genius all about how much money he has? Yes, some of the "preparedness" comes down to him having the RIGHT gadget at the RIGHT time, but how much of that is the money to have said gadget and how much is the wherewithal to know that this is the one to have at this time for this moment?

Hell, if you want to make that real link I think it works more for Tony Stark more than it does for Bruce Wayne. Bruce Wayne, if you take away every penny he has can still physically beat almost any non-metahuman in the DC universe (and probably a few meta-humans as well). Tony Stark is a great inventor, true, but without his money and resources - what would he build? It took three movies (never read the IM comics) to come up with a way Stark can use his talents in a way that won't rely on his wealth to finance (I don't count the first movie as the first suit was built using his access to an entire arms bazaar, not just a few rocks in the cave) - and even then what he could accomplish was limited.

In a video that tries to appeal for levelheadedness about Afleck's casting, your own completely disappears at the end of the video...

Can someone tell me when Zack turned into night shyamaina? Coz as far as I remember everyone loved his movies. Sucker punch, 300, watchman, dawn of the dead. Coz man of steel was.... Wrong, all of a sudden has as much talent as uwe boll?

I've got to disagree with Bob here. I don't think Ben Affleck is a good enough actor. Name me one movie where he is fantastic. Name me one movie were you thought, "thank god Ben Affleck played that role?

Has Ben Affleck been in good movies? Yes. Has been Affleck shown he can direct well? Yes. Has he been the standout performance in any movie? No.

Ben Affleck is a passable actor in good movies. Passable is as good as it gets for him. I enjoyed Argo. It was a well made movie, but Ben Affleck was subpar in it. Not bad enough that he damaged the movie, but not good enough that he added anything to it.

Ben Affleck as the movies director? I'm delighted. Ben Affleck as the movies Batman? Ugh.

Ukomba:
Wow you went off on a left wing tangent there towards the end.

Yea, it seems like Bob has been doing a lot of that in his recent shows. I mean... Rommney lost, by a significant margin, Obama is president, and I haven't heard anything about the guy since. Maybe its time to move on?

Also, the comparisons aren't apt. They just aren't. I get bob has his issues with some of the things that snuck into modern DC films but...I mean THATS THE AGE WE LIVE IN. The world is dark and full of terrors, If i may rip someone else's schtick. comics typically represent modern thought and general feelings. If you don't like it, sorry. This is the age we live in. If you want to hide under a 'happy' movie rock, thats okay, but I for one don't want to see a Golden-Silver Age flick. Its why I got upset at IM3, because it seemed like it was going somewhere with real gravitas (PTSD, terrorism, Military-industrial complex) then just swept it all away for what amounts to typical hollywood.

I don't want all movies to be grim and gritty, but damn it, some of them have to be, and Marvel sure as hell isn't going to do it because they most certainly will pander to the lowest common denominator (and I enjoy the marvel movies).

Gonna say it again: People who say "Batman always beats Superman" has either never read a comic or assumes TDKR is the set for all of them. Even then, Batman didn't win. Batman and Superman have fought 12 times in comics if my count is right, and who wins almost all of them? Superman.

Batman #428: Batman punches Superman in a fit of anger after Superman says he can't attack the Joker since he has diplomatic immunity (long story, it's after Jason Todd died). Bats breaks a few knuckles and Supes is unscathed.

TDKR (non canon): Even after Supes is shot by a kryptonite arrow from Green Arrow and Batman pulls out all the stops he has, Superman spends the entire fight not trying to hurt Bruce seriously and Bruce ends it by faking a heart attack.

JLA #44: Tower of Babel. Ra's al Ghul steals Batman's plans to stop any of the JL members and uses the red Kryptonite Batman has to hurt Superman's ability to metabolise sunlight. Batman gets a win here because it's his plan, but Ra's is technically the one that implemented this.

TDK Strikes Again (non canon): Supes is beaten by The Flash, Green Arrow, The Atom and years of prep. The only instance ever where Batman straight up beats Superman, and he had a LOT of help.

Batman #612: Batman with Kryptonite gloves vs. mind controlled Superman. Batman openly admits if he keeps fighting his hands will shatter and the fight ends because Batman has Catwoman drop Lois Lane to break the mind control. Batman says several times throughout that Supes is struggling against the mind control to not kill him and knows he would lose otherwise.

Superman: Red Son (non canon): Batman gets red sun generators, ties up Wonder Woman who manages to escape and break the generators, leaving Batman against a full powered Stalin-raised Superman. Batman blows himself up. Leaves Superman with a mess to clean up.

Superman/Batman #2: Evil Superman from an alternate future vs. Batman. Superman backhands him and is about to crush him with a car, Batman can't do anything. Evil Superman fades back to his own time before killing Batman.

Adventures of Superman #642: Superman is mind controlled by Maxwell Lord and thinks Batman is Darkseid. Batman nearly dies.

Superman/Batman #23: Batman is possessed by Kryptonite Man. Superman wins by encasing him in a radiation suit and forcing him out.

SUperman/Batman #33: Batman is under the control of Blackrock and has real superpowers. Superman beats him so bad it scares Blackrock out of his body.

Justice League #2 (new 52): Batman literally throws everything he has at Superman. Does jack all.

Batman: The Dark Knight #5: Batman is under the effect of PIS, a new Venom from Bane that makes you strong enough to hurt a Kryptonian. Superman one-shots Batman through a roof.

Lex Luthor: Man of Steel: Superman knocks out Batman even with kryptonite.

Out of all of those encounters, Batman definitively wins 1 of them and has an arguable win in 1 other.

TwiZtah:
Fuck yes, finally, someone criticizes Batman!

He's not a hero, he knows the villains will get out of Arkham, therefore he is also indirectly responsible for the deaths of thousands.

He actually openly admits this in The Dark Knight Returns:

I remain somewhere between on the fence and cautiously-optimistic. If it works it'll be a riot and if it doesn't then little of value will be lost.

templar1138a:
You can tell Bob's making a rant video when he's talking in his Boston accent.

I put it down to talking about a fellow Bostonian as much as anything.

Another Bob thread, another slew of people complaining about the accent. (Not the person I've quoted.. others.)

Just because you are from Boston does not mean that Affleck is the right actor for every movie. That being said http://youtu.be/0la5DBtOVNI

Gammaj4:
Superman can be a lot more interesting, once you open up the DC universe a bit. For one thing, he has no resitance to magic, and the expanded DC universe has tons of magicians running around, not to mention guys like Mongo or Darkseid, who are just so damn strong that they can beat the hell out of him regardless of his powers. You also run into some great moral grey areas that seriously mess with his boy scout personality.

A good series to watch for this sort of thing is Justice League Unlimited. It's technically a sequel series to Justice League, but I haven't watched that one, so I can't recommend it.

The problem here is with the idea of opening up the DC Universe a bit. We're talking about a Superman movie here, not the whole expanse of DC canon, which I'm NOT going to tap into because I don't care enough at the moment. A good DC movie OTHER than Batman might make me care, but the problem THERE is that the movie-going public only knows of a handful of DC heroes, and they've all become uninteresting clichés to the cynical audience, largely because they're mostly aliens or beings with god-level powers that movie writers try to squeeze into a human context.

There's an idea to make a Superman movie interesting: Keep away from Earth and humanity. Don't have them factor into it at all. That'll remove the awkward need to have him relate on our level.

Teoes:
I put it down to talking about a fellow Bostonian as much as anything.

Another Bob thread, another slew of people complaining about the accent. (Not the person I've quoted.. others.)

Nice of you to clarify. No really, thanks.

But seriously, check his other videos where he's downright ranting (one about South Park is the only specific one I can think of at the moment). He slips into his Boston dialect all too easily.

Here is the problem - Affleck could play a great Superman.

Affleck doesn't play grim all that well, and when you get right down to it the central idea with Batman, that fear can be used to create order? That's not Affleck either.

The risk is that the director ends up taking out the strengths of Affleck in trying to mould his performance towards the strengths of Batman, ending up with neither.

It is not his acting chops really at the heart of it, it is that he doesn't quite fit the role.

Strain42:

And to the people who bring up Daredevil, yes it was 10 years ago, but let's also remember that Daredevil was not bad BECAUSE of Affleck.

Quite true. Daredevil was watchable thanks to Affleck really trying to sell the character... something the producers of Green Lantern forgot when they effectively took Ryan Reynolds out of the equation. The rest of the movie was pretty bad, but watching it again, you can tell that, even relatively half-assed compared to some of his other roles, Affleck played a decent Daredevil. Maybe that can translate into him being a decent Batman, maybe not. Time till tell.

I personally don't see Ben Affleck as Batman. Bruce Wayne, maybe, but not Batman. (He could make a pretty interesting DC villain, though... and he'd make one hell of a Flash.) I'd much rather he take on a behind-the-scenes role, adding his expertise to the direction and screenwriting. Ideally, this will happen either way. On the other hand, Affleck's style and personality is comparable to that of Michael Keaton. That's not a bad thing.

As an aside... I'd be quite interested to see Bob discuss this topic with Angry Joe (warning, loud). They're on relatively opposite sides, but with enough common ground and cautious optimism to make it interesting. I find it very interesting that both equate "Superman vs Batman" on the same level as "Iron Man vs Thor", as something that should happen once in one scene and then everybody moves on.

I'm more concerned that Batman has the potential to completely overshadow Superman's movie... very much like the US Army did to the Transformers' movies (F you, Bay!). I just hope the writers and directors remember that this shouldn't be Batman vs Superman, this is Man of Steel 2 with special guest, the Batman. (...and in my opinion, they can tell Frank Miller's versions of these characters to drown themselves in lava.)

Bob, If the first news was that Ben Afflect was cast as Batman, I would be ok with that. I think he's a great actor, loved Argo, so no problems there. The problem is that they quoted The Dark Knight Returns and said this Batman will be a "rugged and older" Batman. The way I see it, this would be a perfect part for Mickey Rourke or Bruce Willis. They did brilliantly "rugged and older" characters in Sin City. I would pay good money to see Jonh Hartigan as Batman. As much as I like Afleck, I don't think he has the body or the face to play this part.
And another point, I completely cannot take any more of this "dark and gritty" stuff hollywood thinks all movies must be, but with MoS as the tone, how can it not be dark and gritty?
Also, Snyder's superman kills if he thinks things took long enough, so the fight with Batman should be quick.

As much as I like Batman, I can't really work up the energy one way or another to care about Affleck as Batman. He seems like an okay actor, better director. There are worse people to play him. I dunno, I enjoyed the Nolan Batman movies, but I think I'm a bit burned out on Batman movies for the time being.

Izanagi009:
The times are changing; the world has become more dark and painful as even with all the advances in science, our humanity has become more chaotic in war, politics, and isolation.

Jetsetneo:
Also, the comparisons aren't apt. They just aren't. I get bob has his issues with some of the things that snuck into modern DC films but...I mean THATS THE AGE WE LIVE IN. The world is dark and full of terrors, If i may rip someone else's schtick. comics typically represent modern thought and general feelings. If you don't like it, sorry. This is the age we live in. If you want to hide under a 'happy' movie rock, thats okay, but I for one don't want to see a Golden-Silver Age flick.

Did you realize the Golden Age of comics, when these characters were created, happened during and just after the planet was enmeshed in the bloodiest, most destructive, and pretty much most depraved conflict the human race has ever seen?

Did you realize the Silver Age happened during a period of immense civil and international strife, including the civil rights movement, terrorism, the Cuba Missile Crisis, the Berlin Wall, and the Vietnam War?

I grew up enjoying all the 80s toy related properties Bob likes to wax nostalgic about--while cognizant of the fact that the USSR had nuclear missiles pointed at my hometown that could reduce it to radioactive ash within 15 minutes.

While my sister and I were still toddlers, my parents saw their mortgage rate reach almost 20%. In the last 5 years, mine has almost never been more than 2.5%.

And yet, none of those things prevented our society from creating and enjoying light, comedic, hopeful, and optimistic entertainment. I swear, kids today are the wimpiest bunch of drama queens. No sense of historical perspective whatsoever.

I'm kinda warming to the idea of him being Bats, and the idea that we could get a Dark Knight in the vein of Brave and the Bold or The Animated Series is an appealing one, certainly. A Batman who is competent, cheeky, and has fun with all his super gadgets is much more preferably to the grimdark, raspy, angsty, overly melodramatic Batman we've seen recently, so hopefully that happens.

Come to think of it, Batman was the weakest part of the best of the Dark Knight trilogy, so it's not like he's got a high bar against Bale. Against the (first two) movies, sure, but there's still plenty of ways to let Batman out without causing issue. I imagine the grimdark and angst loving crowd will be displeased, but we could do with collectively moving out of the nineties, anyway.

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