Upskirt Danger Caused Sex Change in Ico's The Last Guardian

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Put the lead in capri pants. Next most feminine step from a skirt.

My first thought was "give her pants!".

I guess the japanese don't like pants on girls. Even though it seemed to work fine on Tifa.

Putting her in pants would have been easier, but that also wasn't the only reason so whatever. It doesn't matter anyway as i doubt he even talks.

Didn't Nintendo pass this hurdle with Samus over twenty years ago? I know that was the space future though, maybe they thought that it was just a far out science fiction concept, to have women not wearing skirts and flowers in their hair.

By the way, and this may qualify as a cheap shot, but if it's easier to change the gender of your character than the attire, then you probably don't have much of a character, do you?

EDIT EDIT: And this is definitely a cheap shot but I would never have pegged a Japanese developer as a company to have a problem with this.

Covarr:

boholikeu:

Covarr:
Women in Japan don't generally wear pants, and little girls especially don't. It's not a matter of chauvinism or anything, it's simply the way their culture is. It wouldn't even think to most Japanese people to question is, in their minds it's no different from men not wearing skirts.

See, this is a culture that understands something that the US frequently seems to miss: it's okay for genders to be DIFFERENT, and that doesn't automatically make them unequal in some way.

P.S. Thanks

As someone that lives in Japan, I'd like to let everyone know this is not true. Plenty of women here wear pants. Japan may have different expectations of each gender than the West, but this is not one of them

My apologies, I appear to have made a mistake. However, depending on the age and status of this character, a school uniform (read: skirt) would still have made more sense than pants, and certainly would have helped convey her femininity. But then, looking at what's been shown so far, I guess this isn't terribly relevant.

P.S. Thanks (special thanks for correcting me, I do not like being responsible for propagating myths)

NP, I'm just glad I didn't inadvertently start a flame war. =) You'd be surprised how adamant some people get about their perceptions of Japan.

Xan Krieger:
Agreed with the putting her in pants idea, besides for climbing it seems a bit more practical to wear pants instead of a skirt when climbing things.

The obvious reason is it simply never occurred to the guy that adolescent girls might, on occasion, wear pants.

That's a tad silly.. but it's their decision, and the game looks nice enough with a boy.

wear a skort!

Covarr:
See, this is a culture that understands something that the US frequently seems to miss: it's okay for genders to be DIFFERENT, and that doesn't automatically make them unequal in some way.

And the effect of genders being different here is that the girl doesn't get to exist.

Twilight_guy:
Games need more female protagonists! I demand a lady in pants!
...Wow, I really just wrote that...

lol was that sarcasm? Like, half the games now have female lead characters or at least the option to make your character female.

More power to him then.

To those butthurt few individuals that seem to be throwing a feminism fueled temper tantrum over this:

Artists can and will do ANYTHING they want to bring their visions to fruition. This includes changing characters as they see fit. Udea decided that a male lead made more sense and that is fine.

His opinion on what sex would have been better for this game does not make him sexist; it makes him a man of artistic integrity. Chances are there were many reasons for the change.

Grow thicker skin - there is absolutely nothing to be gained by rampant political correctness. It just makes you look like a raving reactionist.

poiumty:
My first thought was "give her pants!".

I guess the japanese don't like pants on girls. Even though it seemed to work fine on Tifa.

Yeah but Tifa also had tits that mountain expeditionists could get lost in. (not sexist)

Predicting silent protagonist also sexism is abundant with japanese developers...

Zeekar:
To those butthurt few individuals that seem to be throwing a feminism fueled temper tantrum over this:

Artists can and will do ANYTHING they want to bring their visions to fruition. This includes changing characters as they see fit. Udea decided that a male lead made more sense and that is fine.

His opinion on what sex would have been better for this game does not make him sexist; it makes him a man of artistic integrity. Chances are there were many reasons for the change.

Grow thicker skin - there is absolutely nothing to be gained by rampant political correctness. It just makes you look like a raving reactionist.

This. Game developers can make whatever game they want, art's art.

As much a fan of skirts as I am, the pants thing seems a lot easier. Or, a compromise, shorts. Or, a skirt, with stockings. But none of those seem to be in the style that Ueda has going. We do have a dearth of female protagonists, after all. Though, as to why they aren't just gonna focus on a girl in her underpants--remember, this is the company that is pretty much holding up the "games as art" debate with their previous title.

Now I'm pissed. I mean, this is a world that he made himself. Why can't girls wear pants as often as skirts in this world, hm? Instead, now we have a character that looks pretty much exactly like Ico without the horns (again).

I would have liked a female main character much better, because god knows they haven't been very powerful in the series so far. One had butterflies in her brain, the other was dead! I'm really, really annoyed at the team now. Especially Fumito Ueda, who I had a vendetta against anyway.

Maybe she can be an unlockable for those Krazy Koreans going for 100% completion...<.<

Because everyone knows that girls wear SKIRTS and SKIRTS ONLY. NEVER PANTS. NEVER.

Corjha:

Zeekar:
To those butthurt few individuals that seem to be throwing a feminism fueled temper tantrum over this:

Artists can and will do ANYTHING they want to bring their visions to fruition. This includes changing characters as they see fit. Udea decided that a male lead made more sense and that is fine.

His opinion on what sex would have been better for this game does not make him sexist; it makes him a man of artistic integrity. Chances are there were many reasons for the change.

Grow thicker skin - there is absolutely nothing to be gained by rampant political correctness. It just makes you look like a raving reactionist.

This. Game developers can make whatever game they want, art's art.

Thanks for the usual derailment of this kind of discussion. No one's telling Udea what to do, they're questioning the logic of "no skirt = male". I don't know why "how about a girl with pants?" is supposed to be such an unreasonable suggestion.

8bitmaster:
I agree with the last part of the article. If they wanted a female main character that badly, all they needed to do was switch it from a skirt to pants. Simple as that. If they say that if its a female main that she would need a skirt, then team ico has problems.

It is an adolescent female character, also it's a fictional world and place. It's possible we just aren't getting the whole story and it would have demanded putting the character in skit to better convey that the character is female and keep within the rules setup by this fictional world. Who knows, I still think putting her in some damn pants would have been a better solution then a sex change, but I am open to hearing more before I pass any kind of final judgment.

Seriously does girl really need to wear skits in video game... that's stupid lol

I agree put her in some pants or she could wear some tights underneath her skirt just throwing stuff out there

"Also, how about just putting the lady in pants? Seems like a much easier fix than scrapping the female character altogether."

This.

She should have been in pants from the start if she's going to be a lot of climbing and riding a giant creature... or was she going to ride it side saddle :P

Jeans, sweatpants, trouser, khakis, skorts, shorts, bell-bottoms, dress pants, etc. etc. Look it up, Team Ico.

Fronzel:

Corjha:

Zeekar:
To those butthurt few individuals that seem to be throwing a feminism fueled temper tantrum over this:

Artists can and will do ANYTHING they want to bring their visions to fruition. This includes changing characters as they see fit. Udea decided that a male lead made more sense and that is fine.

His opinion on what sex would have been better for this game does not make him sexist; it makes him a man of artistic integrity. Chances are there were many reasons for the change.

Grow thicker skin - there is absolutely nothing to be gained by rampant political correctness. It just makes you look like a raving reactionist.

This. Game developers can make whatever game they want, art's art.

Thanks for the usual derailment of this kind of discussion. No one's telling Udea what to do, they're questioning the logic of "no skirt = male". I don't know why "how about a girl with pants?" is supposed to be such an unreasonable suggestion.

I'd like to ask you to look back at all these comments that have been made so far.

Done? Okay. You have probably noticed that everyone, save a few, has said roughly the same thing as the one before. This makes for a terribly dull discussion. What I'm doing is pointing out that the developer's decision is comparable to other art forms in that his logic is a silly thing to question because the development of such aesthetics is not necessarily a logical process.

You can say that I'm derailing the thread in the same way that Debussy derailed french music. I'm just saying something that no one has said yet. That's what a progressive discussion is about.

boholikeu:
So he&s awesome because he views women as simply being weak rather than sexually objectifying them?

Please don't stretch/change the original intent of my post(s) anymore. Or infer it. Anyways, It's rude not to answer someone, so here you go:

He has a preference for ladies in dresses. I have a similar preference. He rather not put a girl in the game at all if she has to wear pants, at least, that's what we got here. So, what's the problem? This alone is no means 'absolute proof' that he 'views women as simply being weak'. Clothing preferences never will determine his actual views. Or mine. Maybe the original girl had a preference for a dress, but the camera made him go 'Heh, nope'. Maybe it's custom in that world. Maybe he just loves dresses. I ~hope~ I'm not being ironic and stretching your own comment, but are you telling me that he HAS to view women as 'weak beings' for a variable that very easily could suggest otherwise?

You'd also have to lump me into that camp as well, for I'd do the same thing as he did. [Unless they were REALLY cool pants, but the kind of pants I'm thinking don't fit his world much at all.]

This will not stop people from making some messed up rule 34 after/before this game is released, amirite people?

nekoali:
That sound you hear is my head repeatedly striking my desk over the huge amounts of sexism depicted by Fumito Ueda.

...*cough*.

Don't think the idea was that.. any female character will be put in upskirt shots. And they just wanted to avoid that image..?

I pretty much agree with everyone else on this forum. Pants would've been a fairly easier solution. But oh well I guess. Maybe she'll be an unlockable at the end of the game or something. With pants.

I think for one moment we all need to take a step back and be thankful that SOMEONE in Japan sees "Female Protagonist Climbing in Skirt with Camera Below her" and doesn't think "Great! We have our first selling point!"

JoshGod:
How about having a boy wearing a kilt? Would that solve anything?

Bwuahahahhaha I'd love to play a japanese game with that in it XD.

On Topic: Really...whats wrong with putting a girl in pants, explain to me, IN DETAIL, like super detail, give me reasons and sources to back it up, Why, a woman, can't wear, A DAMN PAIR OF PANTS.

Aw man, don't tell me that -.-

I don't care about the main character, but being told a game's been compromised for game-external reasons just.. blech, I hope knowing it was modified like that doesn't hamper enjoying it when it comes out, it's happened to me before -.-

Also, wow, stereotyping's alive and well I see, and on all fronts at that o.O 'Would've thought a news-list reporter'd be above such, though the rest's no surprise,

Soooo... they dont make pants for females or something?

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