Bethesda Says Mojang's Scrolls Infringes on Elder Scrolls Mark

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okay time for a lawyer joke.

A lawyer dies and goes to hell. when he meets satan, satan says to him that he's been such a bad person by getting murderers/ rapist's etc. that he's being taken to the lowest level of hell. as they are descending at about the 7th level or so the lawyer looks over and see's another lawyer having sex with a very attractive woman. he then asks Satan "if this is hell then why is that lawyer having sex with such an attractive woman?" Satan looks at him and says "WHO ARE YOU TO QUESTION HER PUNISHMENT!?"

5t3v0:
Despite what the Beth fanboys say about it having a "Worse Story" and "'forced' replay Value".

I haven't seen anyone saying that.. do people say that?

Because that's moronic. About the dumbest thing I can imagine anyone saying about New Vegas. New Vegas had some really serious problems, but the story wasn't among them.

MrJKapowey:
I still won't care. Bethesda is still awesome.

You HAVE to be kidding. While I'll agree that I like the Elderscrolls series, and that Bethesda can do some good story-writing and they make good character-building systems, as a development company, they are horseshit. Every game they have ever put out. EVERY GAME. Has been a buggy pile of shit outside of the aforementioned good character-building and interesting stories. If Bethesda were a pen-and-paper RPG company, I'd be right there with you saying that they are the bee's knees. As video game developers though, they are terrible. As the mantra goes; Bethesda makes the game, and the community fixes the game.

Name even one product with Bethesda's name on it that wasn't buggy as hell. Heck, even Brink had it's fair share of bugs, and Bethesda only published that one. It's like they ruin games just by touching them.

Pandabearparade:

5t3v0:
Despite what the Beth fanboys say about it having a "Worse Story" and "'forced' replay Value".

I haven't seen anyone saying that.. do people say that?

Because that's moronic. About the dumbest thing I can imagine anyone saying about New Vegas. New Vegas had some really serious problems, but the story wasn't among them.

well I'm not sure if it was a Beth Fanboy, but a while ago there was this article that was posted about "Why fallout 3 is better than new Vegas" and the guy who posted it said everything that was obviously his opinion as fact. Those 2 things were part of the list. All of his points were void by anyone who has any sense as well.

And the Extra Credits episode on Fallout New Vegas and amnesia stories (But again, thats not Beth fanboyism.). I love extra credits, but they showed a lot of ignorance with that video.

Well that was more targeted at those who love fallout 3 more and cite reasons that make no sense. They way I can see it, the only true argument about Fallout New Vegas being worse in an area is the stability, but even then that can be argued with the fact that NV ran different for different people, even on the same console/system and Fallout 3 being around the same with its stabiltiy for many users as well, just not as reported due to everyone being "Blown away"

So... would they also sue anyone who used the term "Elder"? Or is it just scrolls? So no other video game in existence can have the world Scrolls in its title now? Isn't that stupid?

Bethesda's "reason" for doing this is that people might become "confused" and mistake Notch's game for an Elder Scroll's game.

That.
Is.
Ludicrous.

Only a brain damaged Chipmunk could actually think that just because a game is called Scrolls it is linked to the Elder Scroll's series. No person with the intelligence to read could mistake the two.

What's next? Going after Fruit Roll ups, because Roll is a part of Scroll?

Bethesda should drop this suit. Even if it's an automated response, it should still be dropped. Besides, I have NEVER heard anyone call it "Scrolls". I've heard people say "Oblivion" when referring to Oblivion and "Morrowind" and I have heard of people referring to it as "Elder scrolls", but I have never, EVER heard of anyone say "So, you gonna buy Scrolls?" or "Have you played Scrolls?".

Maybe I should make a game called "The Scrolling Scrolls of Scrolland: On the Edge!" just to spite them. In fact, get 200 indie developers together to make some indie games incorporating Scroll in the title - let's see Bethesda try to sue all of them.

WhiteTigerShiro:

MrJKapowey:
I still won't care. Bethesda is still awesome.

Name even one product with Bethesda's name on it that wasn't buggy as hell. Heck, even Brink had it's fair share of bugs, and Bethesda only published that one. It's like they ruin games just by touching them.

The last two sentences I'm just going to ignore. They have no bearing on it in ANY way at all.

Well, I have bought 3 Bethesda products and in my opinion, all three of them had no bugs at all.

The only bug I ever had was not getting a map marker for a quest in FNV, the reason being that the marker SHOULD'VE directed me towards Helios One to speak with the Lt in charge. The had been killed by the plant defense system and was replaced by legionaries.

In other words, I have never encountered a bug which is above acceptable for a Bethesda game.

Absolutely ludicrous.

Have you trademarked the word "Scrolls"?
No, we haven't.
Go away.

Oh, on a side note -

MrJKapowey:

Well, I have bought 3 Bethesda products and in my opinion, all three of them had no bugs at all.

Oh mate. I've had a lot of Bethesda games and I love them all but they're buggy as hell. Oblivion, Fallout 3 and New Vegas especially. I'm talking "how the f*ck did you let it ship with a blatant bug within first 10 minutes of gameplay?!" sort of bugs.

robandall:
Absolutely ludicrous.

Have you trademarked the word "Scrolls"?
No
Get out

I'm sorry guys, I have to go off topic for a bit. I love your avatar. Good ol' Terry Tibs... Oh fonejacker...

Panzervaughn:
Im looking forward to Mojangs next Project 'The Oldest parchment: airledge'

ahemm...

image

Im looking forward to Mojangs next Project 'The Oldest parchment: airledge'

PAY UP, PLEASE!

5t3v0:

robandall:
Absolutely ludicrous.

Have you trademarked the word "Scrolls"?
No
Get out

I'm sorry guys, I have to go off topic for a bit. I love your avatar. Good ol' Terry Tibs... Oh fonejacker...

Bethesda suing Notch. Talk to me.

Everybody loves Terry Tibbs!

bob1052:
I think a lot of this stems from how trademark law actually works.

If you don't actively enforce your trademark rights, you lose the trademark. Therefore it is safer to chase after anything that even remotely resembles infringement than to wait until a later date and hope you catch anything that is big enough to warrant trouble.

Basically, if Bethesda lets this slide without any trouble, and then next year some random person tries to make an "Elder Scrolls" game, they could cite Mojang's "Scrolls" as proof that Bethesda has not enforced, and therefore no longer has rights to their "Elder Scrolls" trademark.

Regardless of how much of a case Bethesda has, they have no choice but to take action in this situation. The outcome isn't important to Bethesda, as Mojang isn't stealing actual content nor trying to mask his game as one of theirs and therefore will not cause them any damage either way but the act of defending the trademark against something that could be remotely considered infringement is, however, very important to Bethesda.

What? Seriously? Geez! Why is trademark law written like that?

I dont have a great deal of opinion. If this is indeed unknowing copyright infringement wouldnt it be better to nip in the bud now than notice it later down the line when the games released, sold and then makes the claim? I love Bethesda, i like Mojang. This debacle is nothing new between big companies, it happens all the time. People frothing and announcing they are never going to buy a Beth' game again is peurile, silly and fucking childish. Get your head from up of Notch's ass too, that would be grand. Raging fanboying is just reducing the value of the thread.

Edit: Guy above me, quote of the outlined copyright law requirements to chasing up BS. Read it, stop foaming like rabid badgers.

Editedit: Lawl gamers trying to make out they know the law more than the lawyers. "Oh you can't do this unless you copyrighted X Y AND Z too!"

MrJKapowey:

WhiteTigerShiro:

MrJKapowey:
I still won't care. Bethesda is still awesome.

Name even one product with Bethesda's name on it that wasn't buggy as hell. Heck, even Brink had it's fair share of bugs, and Bethesda only published that one. It's like they ruin games just by touching them.

The last two sentences I'm just going to ignore. They have no bearing on it in ANY way at all.

Well, I have bought 3 Bethesda products and in my opinion, all three of them had no bugs at all.

The only bug I ever had was not getting a map marker for a quest in FNV, the reason being that the marker SHOULD'VE directed me towards Helios One to speak with the Lt in charge. The had been killed by the plant defense system and was replaced by legionaries.

In other words, I have never encountered a bug which is above acceptable for a Bethesda game.

In your opinion? What opinion? It's fact! Go look it up on any wiki for their games, it's right there in black and white (or whatever colors the wiki might use). Heck, in reading The Vault, most entries have numerous glitches that players might encounter in any given area. Just because you personally were lucky enough to avoid most of them doesn't mean they aren't there.

Seriously, don't just throw the word "opinion" around like it automatically makes your argument air-tight and irrefutable.

I'd laugh if Notch decided to fight it. It's not like he's short of cash.

Don't Bethesda have enough pointless legal drama already with the Fallout MMO?

Meh. If Beth persue this case, they'll be feeding more cash to their lawyers. After all, the only winners in Civil legal cases are the lawyers of both parties. Finsh up with Interplay, then reconsider taking on one of the most popular indie devs out there Beth. And make Fallout 4?

That does it! I won't buy Skyrim until ... until ... it comes out.

WhiteTigerShiro:

MrJKapowey:

WhiteTigerShiro:

Name even one product with Bethesda's name on it that wasn't buggy as hell. Heck, even Brink had it's fair share of bugs, and Bethesda only published that one. It's like they ruin games just by touching them.

The last two sentences I'm just going to ignore. They have no bearing on it in ANY way at all.

Well, I have bought 3 Bethesda products and in my opinion, all three of them had no bugs at all.

The only bug I ever had was not getting a map marker for a quest in FNV, the reason being that the marker SHOULD'VE directed me towards Helios One to speak with the Lt in charge. The had been killed by the plant defense system and was replaced by legionaries.

In other words, I have never encountered a bug which is above acceptable for a Bethesda game.

In your opinion? What opinion? It's fact! Go look it up on any wiki for their games, it's right there in black and white (or whatever colors the wiki might use). Heck, in reading The Vault, most entries have numerous glitches that players might encounter in any given area. Just because you personally were lucky enough to avoid most of them doesn't mean they aren't there.

Seriously, don't just throw the word "opinion" around like it automatically makes your argument air-tight and irrefutable.

Well, you did say 'Product'. If you meant game then yeah they are generally buggy, but the individual products I bought weren't buggy.

Hey, until Bethesda lawyers pointed this out did ANYONE notice the link between Scrolls and Skyrim?

MrJKapowey:
Well, you did say 'Product'. If you meant game then yeah they are generally buggy, but the individual products I bought weren't buggy.

/facepalm

Yes, by "product" I meant "game", obviously. Bethesda is a video game developer, so any product that they release is going to be a game. Mind that the meaning of either word doesn't refer specifically to any one person's purchase. Just because you personally never experienced any bugs doesn't mean that your point is any-more valid just because I used the word "product". You're either reaching, or you some weird definitions of these words. First "opinion", then "product". You should really go buy yourself a dictionary.

If I where bethseda I'd watch out for the fans of minecraft. I hear those guys can build minecraft inside of minecraft.

SirBryghtside:

5t3v0:
well I'm not sure if it was a Beth Fanboy, but a while ago there was this article that was posted about "Why fallout 3 is better than new Vegas" and the guy who posted it said everything that was obviously his opinion as fact. Those 2 things were part of the list. All of his points were void by anyone who has any sense as well.

And the Extra Credits episode on Fallout New Vegas and amnesia stories (But again, thats not Beth fanboyism.). I love extra credits, but they showed a lot of ignorance with that video.

Well that was more targeted at those who love fallout 3 more and cite reasons that make no sense. They way I can see it, the only true argument about Fallout New Vegas being worse in an area is the stability, but even then that can be argued with the fact that NV ran different for different people, even on the same console/system and Fallout 3 being around the same with its stabiltiy for many users as well, just not as reported due to everyone being "Blown away"

I like how you say someone else is stupid for presenting opinion as fact, and then say that NV is undeniably better than FO3 and most reasons why it would be worse are undeniably wrong.

Okay, you got me there... I admit I was probably not thinking very neutrally there. But well tit for that I guess. But it just irks me the hatred New Vegas got by people who took one glance at it and wrote it off as a fallout 3 copy despite many aspects that they overlook.

Let's hope it's not really Bethesda but their lawyers. Unless it is, I just lost alll my respect for them. ...

If you are guys wondering why would anybody replace Skyrim with Scrolls, then i shall reefer you
to the millions of Blops buyers that thought that Activision made it.

Wow this is REALLY weird,since a while ago,Todd Howard(the awesome director of Morrowind,Oblivion,Fallout 3 and Skyrim) and Notch had a long conversation/interview about Skyrim,Minecraft,etc.You can find it on Youtube,it's really cool if you're into listening to the 'creators' talk about their games and stuff like that.Todd said that the guys at Bethesda loved Minecraft and they talked about how Notch used to play Oblivion and they talked about Skyrim IN Minecraft and everything,so yeah.Wow...I hope Todd sorts this out because he IS in fact the only reason that I like Bethesda for.The rest of the company(the people who don't work on the games:the lawyers,presidents,etc) is just a bunch of retards,like it has been shown by the lawsuit.

I'm not sure what he's implying about the name of the floating island dimension, but he'd better not refer to it as a 'sky'. Bethesda totally has a trademark on that word.

Slick Samurai:
If this is indeed an infringement then Bethesda is well within their right to sue the pants off of "Mojang". The idea that the creator of MineCraft gets the crap legally beaten out of him only makes it that much sweeter.

Show me on the doll where the creators of Minecraft touched you.

That's retarded. "Skyrim" and "Scrolls" do not even sound simular, neither "The Elder Scrolls: Skyrim" and Even JUST "The Elder ScrollS" is quite a big difference from just "Scrolls." Plus, the Fact that TES is one of THE most popular video game franchise, I find it hard to believe that people will get one of the most anticipated releases of 2011 with a indie game.

Android2137:

bob1052:
I think a lot of this stems from how trademark law actually works.

If you don't actively enforce your trademark rights, you lose the trademark. Therefore it is safer to chase after anything that even remotely resembles infringement than to wait until a later date and hope you catch anything that is big enough to warrant trouble.

Basically, if Bethesda lets this slide without any trouble, and then next year some random person tries to make an "Elder Scrolls" game, they could cite Mojang's "Scrolls" as proof that Bethesda has not enforced, and therefore no longer has rights to their "Elder Scrolls" trademark.

Regardless of how much of a case Bethesda has, they have no choice but to take action in this situation. The outcome isn't important to Bethesda, as Mojang isn't stealing actual content nor trying to mask his game as one of theirs and therefore will not cause them any damage either way but the act of defending the trademark against something that could be remotely considered infringement is, however, very important to Bethesda.

What? Seriously? Geez! Why is trademark law written like that?

Its intention is to free up unused trademarks so that they can be reused, otherwise we would reach a point where literally nothing can be used.

Unfortunately it forces current holders to protect as it assumes that if you don't protect it, you aren't using it.

It forces the trademark holder (Bethesda) to be overly protective against even minor cases that wouldn't even cause them damages (Mojang's Scrolls) so that they can ensure that in a year or two or five someone who is clearly trying to infringe on their trademark can't claim the minor case (Mojang's Scrolls) as proof that they do not hold rights to the trademark any more.

theheroofaction:
Dear world, YOU CAN'T PATENT WORDS. Especially if those words have been in use for the past 1200 years.

Seriously, it didn't work with "Edge" it won't work with "scrolls"

No but they can be trademarked which is what Bethesda Game Studios is saying has been breached. This could go either way as trademarks work within fields. You could open a clothing store selling tarten called Mcdonalds but not a different fast food chain. Bethesda might win this they might not depends on the jugde.

note: my knowledge is of UK trademark law. it may work differently in the US

thiosk:

CezarIgnat:
They have stupid lawyers ... assholes...

There is no other kind of lawyer than stupid lawyer assholes.

aww, come on man... I'm studying to be one... :( and besides go watch How I Met Your Mother, Marshall is the opposite of an asshole and he's a lawyer...

cora mcstrap:
snip

Whoops, okay, I used the wrong word, but the point still stands in the way I was intending.

See, scrolls is an actual word so it (at least by U.S. law) can't be trademarked, While "the elder scrolls" being a phrase that Bethesda created, can be trademarked.

Besides, does anybody remember the whole "edge" debacle and how that ended?

This is no good at all ZeniMax. Let us just hope that Bethesda will do the same thing Blizzard did when Activision attempted to hammer down someone who made a mmo with the SC2 map generator thing.

After reading this, I cancelled my pre-order of Skyrim. I really hope that ZeniMax will let this slide, or find a peacefull solution.

If not.. well, I always side with the indie developers.

I love how people are complaining about not trademarking words when Notch just did that.

'The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim' and 'Scrolls' are not similar in any way, especially since the first one is referenced to as Skyrim, and not The Elder Scrolls.

They have no case at all, Notch will win this easily.

Why not sue everyone using the word 'The' in their products -_-

Wabblefish:
So somehow this is Zenimax's fault according to some of you?

Look...Bethesda buys lawyers, they do all the legal work and make all the safeguards etc. and the lawyers just do their jobs. They actually need to have these safeguards and copyright rules even if you don't like them just because that is how it works. They probably will let Notch use it anyway.

They are ZeniMax's lawyers. I have already offered citations to my claims, I'm not blindly saying things. ZeniMax is Bethesda's parent company, and can sue even if Bethesda isn't up for it.

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