Volition Dev Vs. Pre-Owned Games

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Does he understand how horribly expensive it would be to manufacture game disks with individualized coding like that? They would have to make disks one at a time instead of the current mass-production. Online passes are just a DLC key. I do try my best to buy all my games new, but I just recently got a PSP a few months ago. I bought Dissidia 012, and Birth By Sleep new. However Final Fantasy I, Final Fantasy II and Final Fantasy VII: Crisis Core were no longer accessible new. I had to buy used. So according to him, it is my fault I didn't have the funds to make the purchase when they were new, and it is my fault SquareEnix no longer ships the game out to retailers? In his dream system, I'd be SOL.

If Microsoft implements this, I'd rather get a Vita than the Nextbox and I hate the Vita.

So, he doesn't like Gamestop's business model so he supports hurting his customers to hurt Gamestop. Okay, whatever, I think that's stupid but I'm not getting into that. What I am getting into is his last paragraph:

He likes using Amazon because it lets him cheat his way around sales taxes, depriving his local government of money.

So when I buy a used game to save five bucks and cut him out of the deal, it's wrong. When he buys online to save five bucks and cut his government out of the deal, it's great.

The day I accept paying a hundred bucks for a game in New Zealand for ten hours or less of entertainment will be the day video games are fucking better. I payed $130NZD for MW3. I've replayed the campaign a few times and played all the spec ops. That's about seventeen hours so far. That's good money. I spent a hundred on Just Cause 2 and Skyrim. Best money ever spent. I spent seventy bucks on F.3.A.R., for a game that was half-assed, and finished in six hours. And was not that fun. That game? I'm going to get my money back, one way or another.

Not to mention, developers got the money when the game sold. They already made their millions and millions of dollars. Boo fucking hoo you didn't get to see another million and million of dollars because people bought them cheaper used. And considering next to no one buys used in a lot of countries, because there is bugger all (Like, three bucks) difference between new and used. Not to mention, I have yet to hear an independent company crying about their used games being resold. Piracy, yeah, I understand. But if people want to sell a game they spent their money on and didn't think it was worth keeping....why the fuck should the developers have a say in that? You are fucking lucky we don't demand the money back, and then you literally have to give the customer the money back, since the game store ALREADY PAID FOR THAT COPY OF THE EVER FUCKING GAME!

<<

Now...imagine that rant ranted by Archer. Oh my god...that'd be amazing. Also, Volition needs to make better games. Saints Rows were surreal, yet they definitely needed a lot more polish to them.

Won't this cause a decrease in sales? I know a fair portion of people that won't buy anywhere as many games, because they will no longer have the option to sell them on, also didn't jimquisition do an episode on why used games have more positives than negatives in the video games industry?

Tanis:
Also:
What happens if/when your console breaks?
What process will there be to move 'your' games to the new system?

DRM is DRM and DRM is BAD!
Stupid people like Durall who support DRM make me buy used games.

That's right.
As of this moment I will NOT buy another game new, by Volition.
I've been doing the same thing with Ubisoft for YEARS.

If they want to treat me like a criminal, I'd rather my money goes to some random idiot on ebay(for example) or GameStop.

"I dont like you so I am going to give gamestop all of my money by buying your game used for 5 dollars less! I am still going to play your game, but I am making sure you dont get any money for it and someone else does!"

And people wonder why developers think used gamers are as bad or worse than pirates...

I don't know about anyone else but I'm getting sick of this bullcrap.
Buying used is not bad. End of discussion.

It didn't hurt devs in the past, its not hurting them now.
It's just another tactic being pushed by greedy publishers and developers who want more money that they somehow think they are entitled to. Your already witholding content from us with pre-order dlc, day one dlc, subcriptions, online passes and you somehow think your entitled to more money?

Stop with these scaremonger tactics, its just another enemy you have created in order to avoid adapting to the market and get more money than you deserve. Its what the movie and music industry did in the past and it failed then.

FelixG:

Tanis:
Also:
What happens if/when your console breaks?
What process will there be to move 'your' games to the new system?

DRM is DRM and DRM is BAD!
Stupid people like Durall who support DRM make me buy used games.

That's right.
As of this moment I will NOT buy another game new, by Volition.
I've been doing the same thing with Ubisoft for YEARS.

If they want to treat me like a criminal, I'd rather my money goes to some random idiot on ebay(for example) or GameStop.

"I dont like you so I am going to give gamestop all of my money by buying your game used for 5 dollars less! I am still going to play your game, but I am making sure you dont get any money for it and someone else does!"

And people wonder why developers think used gamers are as bad or worse than pirates...

Any developer that thinks this is a complete idiot.
Buying used doesn't even necessarily mean buying from Gamestop, it could be from cheaper alternatives or just borrowing a game from a friend to try it out.

If you stop people from having used copies you destroy the ability of both potential customers who will buy other games or sequels you make in the future and consumer goodwill. Is that worth it for short term profits?

The really astonishing thing about this is the used game market boosts sales of new games. What do these people think gamers spend the money on when they sell a game? Do they really think everyone who would buy their game at $20 if deprived of that option would pay $60?

Yes AAA titles are starting to have budgets on par with blockbuster movie release, but those cost around $10-20 at a theater and about $20 on dvd. The cost in both industries is nearly all upfront production and advertizement with the cost of manufacturing the medium that winds up in consumers hands probably well bellow a dollar. I guess the folks running game companies today with their fancy business degrees have never herd of a price curve.

Just for a moment imagine its early December your money is tight and a AAA title is just out with a shiny price sticker reading $20 or even $30. Yep assuming you had any interest in the game or likely even its genre you would buy it. Yes they would have to sell more copies to make the same profit but I would bet it would sell the extra copies and then some.

Sometimes I get a very strong impression the only way to land one of the really high paying jobs involves severe neurological damage.

AsurasFinest:

Any developer that thinks this is a complete idiot.
Buying used doesn't even necessarily mean buying from Gamestop, it could be from cheaper alternatives or just borrowing a game from a friend to try it out.

If you stop people from having used copies you destroy the ability of both potential customers who will buy other games or sequels you make in the future and consumer goodwill. Is that worth it for short term profits?

To them I am sure borrowing is just as had as piracy, after all, one person payed for their game and two (or more) people are now enjoying it.

And the same arguments are used for piracy, a pirates is as likely to buy a sequel in the future as a used game buyer is. If you say "They is just as likely to steal it!" Well then the used game person is just as likely to buy the next game used as well.

And why should they care about a used game buyers good will? They don't support the company so in the companies eyes why should they support the used gamer? Especially when there is a sentiment (in the person I quoted above) who would rather see someone who had nothing to do with the game get payed instead of the people who actually made the game?

Go cry me a river, bitch. You don't see Ford or Panasonic bitching about secondhand sales, and they stand to lose a fuck ton more than you do from it. Less QQ more Pew Pew.

Sigh. I just can't respect devs that whine on about used sales. People are going to sell your shit secondhand, there's nothing you can do about it. Stop trying.

Yeah, I don't want to transfer a license to my friend just so they can play a game they want to try out to see if they like it. I just wanna let them fucking borrow it for a bit.

In my opinion, this guy is an utter dipshit.

And yeah, the phasing out of used games totally wouldn't up the price of new games. Like we need a fucking price hike in Australia.

Another day, another asshole with shitty ideas we can scoff at and yet another company I feel proud of not ever buyed a single game from.

image

FelixG:

AsurasFinest:

Any developer that thinks this is a complete idiot.
Buying used doesn't even necessarily mean buying from Gamestop, it could be from cheaper alternatives or just borrowing a game from a friend to try it out.

If you stop people from having used copies you destroy the ability of both potential customers who will buy other games or sequels you make in the future and consumer goodwill. Is that worth it for short term profits?

To them I am sure borrowing is just as had as piracy, after all, one person payed for their game and two (or more) people are now enjoying it.

And the same arguments are used for piracy, a pirates is as likely to buy a sequel in the future as a used game buyer is. If you say "They is just as likely to steal it!" Well then the used game person is just as likely to buy the next game used as well.

And why should they care about a used game buyers good will? They don't support the company so in the companies eyes why should they support the used gamer? Especially when there is a sentiment (in the person I quoted above) who would rather see someone who had nothing to do with the game get payed instead of the people who actually made the game?

Then they are wrong. Piracy involves noone paying for the product at all, they never see the money.
Used games sales are the result of someone buying their product and reselling it. They've seen the money and the spots just been filled in by another person. They've got the money for that copy, there is no issue, except for them being greedy and wanting more.

Of course they should bloody care, what they do effects both new buyers and used game buyers. I bought Resistance 3 just the other day new and had to spent 30 minutes jumping through hoops just to install the game because of crap like online passes. It inconveniences me as a user and makes me wonder why I bothered to buy it in the first place if they do that kind of crap.

Besides all that, the model doesn't work like that. Gamestop and the like pay them for supplying the stock for their game. They already got the money and if that title fails its not them who suffers the loss, its the retailer who does. The money doesn't even go to the devs, it goes to the bloody publishers who don't do anything significant with game content and if they do, its usually ruining it.

Used games sales are here to stay and if you support them with this nonsense, your only encouraging them to further abuse you and everyone else as a consumer

You're all missing the point. As much as developers want to keep all those preciousss $$$$, I think the real thing they want is for their crap games to go irretrievably out of print, so they can quickly bury their stinkers.

But seriously, if I'm not paying $60 for you game now, what makes you think I'm going to pay $60 for it after I can no longer buy it used?

As a PC gamer, I find this hilarious :P

Sadly its either this or consoles die.

Either way, I am not effected. Maybe this will be gaming's big break when it finally breaks free from the shackles of big business and head down the road of middle games like the PC has been doing for years.

Consoles have been strangled by big business since 2006. If it takes the entire console plate to be wiped away, so be it. It opens gaming up to new ideas.

AsurasFinest:

FelixG:

AsurasFinest:

Any developer that thinks this is a complete idiot.
Buying used doesn't even necessarily mean buying from Gamestop, it could be from cheaper alternatives or just borrowing a game from a friend to try it out.

If you stop people from having used copies you destroy the ability of both potential customers who will buy other games or sequels you make in the future and consumer goodwill. Is that worth it for short term profits?

To them I am sure borrowing is just as had as piracy, after all, one person payed for their game and two (or more) people are now enjoying it.

And the same arguments are used for piracy, a pirates is as likely to buy a sequel in the future as a used game buyer is. If you say "They is just as likely to steal it!" Well then the used game person is just as likely to buy the next game used as well.

And why should they care about a used game buyers good will? They don't support the company so in the companies eyes why should they support the used gamer? Especially when there is a sentiment (in the person I quoted above) who would rather see someone who had nothing to do with the game get payed instead of the people who actually made the game?

Then they are wrong. Piracy involves noone paying for the product at all, they never see the money.
Used games sales are the result of someone buying their product and reselling it. They've seen the money and the spots just been filled in by another person. They've got the money for that copy, there is no issue, except for them being greedy and wanting more.

Of course they should bloody care, what they do effects both new buyers and used game buyers. I bought Resistance 3 just the other day new and had to spent 30 minutes jumping through hoops just to install the game because of crap like online passes. It inconveniences me as a user and makes me wonder why I bothered to buy it in the first place if they do that kind of crap.

Besides all that, the model doesn't work like that. Gamestop and the like pay them for supplying the stock for their game. They already got the money and if that title fails its not them who suffers the loss, its the retailer who does. The money doesn't even go to the devs, it goes to the bloody publishers who don't do anything significant with game content and if they do, its usually ruining it.

Used games sales are here to stay and if you support them with this nonsense, your only encouraging them to further abuse you and everyone else as a consumer

So a pirated movie isn't pirated? The people who video tape the movie in theaters and sell it on the street for a discount before it gets a DVD release?

Piracy =/= about who pays or who doesn't. Piracy can also involve money payments, but none go to the original creator.

Jesus...I like Volition and all but I didn't know they could be such cunts.

Granted I shouldn't judge all of them based on the one persons view but still...fuck you Jameson Durall. Fuck you hard.

lancar:
As a PC gamer, I find this hilarious :P

QFT man...QFT. we fixed this stuff for us a long while ago.

-Dragmire-:
snip.

Well, seems that the PC gaming does need a reason for low prices. And the prices did not increase drastically just because our used marked died. So forgive me if I can't share your fear of greedy retailers (This post is just a hint that your feared situation already exists without problems).

Piracy =/= about who pays or who doesn't. Piracy can also involve money payments, but none go to the original creator.

Your seriously going to say piracy and buying used games are the same. That's what your seriously going to do?
I do not even know where to begin on how wrong you are. If people actually think this, you and they deserve all the crap corporations currently and are going to dump on you.

So I am usually one to support companies that do measures to get some value back for used sales or companies that give us a reason to buy new. This is not a reason I want to buy new. This is a reason I want to avoid the console at all cost. If the next PlayStation doesn't come with this kind of system and the Nextbox does then I will get a PlayStation even though I don't really like Sony. Project 10 dollars, online passes day 1 DLC, exclusive offers to pre-orders, I support that to the fullest as long as it means those who buy used can obtain that content somehow.

My suggestion to combat used sales which would be better than this bullshit would be to have some extra content for free for those who buy new and make that content inaccessible for the first month for anyone who didn't buy new. It's still an assholish move, but when they prevent me from playing my games on my friend's console I would rather have that. I haven't bought any used games except for the past generation (because they're impossible to find) and I oppose this. Volition you used to be cool, but now you have let us down.

unacomn:
Say, Volition man, you know what else hurts game sales and developers? Red Faction Armageddon. Remember? It's that stinkfest you suckered me into buying because Guerrilla was awesome.
If you're saying I can't sell it, to get at least part of my money back, I'm going to come to your house and hit you over the head with the game disk, until I feel that the 60$ dollar entertainment value is satisfied.

Sincerely,

A sucker

Fuck that. Burn his house down, with lemons.

Okay, now as for the article... Bye Volition. Saints Row 3 lost just enough appeal for me to question even the possibility of anything else you make. Right now I've got my eye on ONE game in 2012, and I'm probably not going to buy it at full price. I have patience to wait for Mass Effect 3. Nothing else in 2012 is catching my eye so far. No new game systems, no new games(aside from the last one I buy from EA), no new movies. No new TV shows. No new music.

If it weren't for the political circus, 2012 would be a terrible year.

AsurasFinest:

Piracy =/= about who pays or who doesn't. Piracy can also involve money payments, but none go to the original creator.

Your seriously going to say piracy and buying used games are the same. That's what your seriously going to do?
I do not even know where to begin on how wrong you are. If people actually think this, you and they deserve all the crap corporations currently and are going to dump on you.

I was thinking much the same thing. Like them or not, Used sales are legal and (should be) protected by law and (if the retail companies are to believed) are what's keeping them profitable. Considering what I've found about the markup games retailers can put on new games (40% at best), they don't get much from new sales at all so I'm inclined to believe them. Plus, there's also the added benefit keeping games in circulation, keeping the company in the public eye etc. etc. There's probably a wider economic effect as well with money moving around, but I'm no economist so I can't gauge that.

You're probably the first person I've come across who takes into account the way retail works when this topic comes up. Much of the time it sounds like people think we are buying direct from the publisher, or the developer themselves. It's nice to not feel alone. Though I do wonder how much money actually gets to the original creator.....probably not a lot.

I might have added a snarky comment to his 'piracy may include money' line like 'you mean like that time Activision refused to pay Infinity Ward their royalties?' zing!

What infuriates me the most about this news item is his line on rental companies. He is quite happy for people to lose their (totally legit) jobs over this. How does that help anyone?

Money, money, money... If this happens, it'll be like the gaming industry taking a dive head-first into the 1930s if video games are simply going to STAY $60.00 forever and no matter how shitty the game is.

Seriously. I wonder how many developers actually think like rational people. I'll have the NOPE dinner with a tall glass of Fuck You.

I think that all releases for the new xbox should have both digital and hard copy releases. If they don't have a digital release, people who buy the console later will never get the chance to play the earlier titles released for that console, which i think is a huge problem.

Do you hear that sound?
It's the sound of console gaming losing all the advantages it had over PC gaming.

What a douche, almost makes me want to look into pirating volition games. Used games are a valuable source of testing games. EXAMPLE: I bought Saints row 2 used, due to my love of this game I then bought Saints Row 3 brand new when it came out. Not only that but not all of us make six figures a year and can afford to fork out $90+ (I live in Australia) for every game we want to buy.

gunner1905:
If that happens then welcome to the world (at least an area) of PC gaming, consolers.

I was just about to say this. Seriously, apparently I'm not going to buy Saints Row the Third or First or any others if you support this. Its a legal payment method and shouldn't be as hated upon by you as is.

Legendsmith:
Do you hear that sound?
It's the sound of console gaming losing all the advantages it had over PC gaming.

DAMNIT, I was about to edit my post with something witty like this, but I was too late. ;__;

Do you hear that? That is the sound of me not buying any more of their games. A pity, I really like SR2.

What did you say Mr Durall?

"Be sure to buy Saint Row 3 used"?

No problem! I'll do just that!

*Snerk*

It'll never work. He's either hamming it up or stupid. I think screwing with consoles further will get Microsoft murdered. Like...angry mobs with torches and pitchforks.

Basically, Microsoft... If you want Apple, Sony, and Nintendo to win, go right ahead! I DARE YOU!

For me used games aren't just about price, they are a good way to play games that for whatever reason I didn't get when they came out.

If a system like this was put in place I imagine less games would be sold not more, as many people would be a lot more selective in what they bought and far less willing to take risks.

ShaneGunWolf:
Money, money, money... If this happens, it'll be like the gaming industry taking a dive head-first into the 1930s if video games are simply going to STAY $60.00 forever and no matter how shitty the game is.

PC doesn't have a used market. You could buy DNF for 5$ last week. Games drop in price rather quick.
Also, if you open your eyes for all possibilities you don't have to pay 60$ for new games. Unless you want to support shitty brick&mortar stores in their monopoly. (I for one got Saints Row 3 for 20€ new, Batman Arkham City 25€, Serious Sam 3 20€, TES5: Skyrim 30€ [It arrived on second day after release]. Only Batman and SS through Steam Sales, Saints Row and TES5: Skyrim as hard copies)

Falling prices are not in so much need of a used market as you think they are.

RaNDM G:
At the end of the day, do we really need to say anything about this?

Yes, actually...
Voltition, perhaps if your games didn't go downhill since their start, we wouldn't have this problem. Maybe something as simple as educating them could help solve the problem...

The reason why this is a problem is because super extreme graphics is a card to play if you intend to make it part of the environment, and it requires a skilled hand to play. Stalker executed super extreme graphics well... Red Faction, Saints Row, and Fallout 3/NV did not. (Fallout is Bethesda, but deserves a mention here anyway) When your games cost this much to make, and you feel cheated because friends are nice to eachother and let them play their friends games, or try their buddies games then it's time to cut costs. It's pretty obvious that gameplay and story are not your primary money-sinks. (Although earlier versions of Red Faction and Saints Row 2 were pretty fun and had a decent story) so it's time to cut back on graphics.

Think about it. What is one of the games who has a massive cult following, dominated You-tube, and I'm still playing it from when I got it Xmas of 2010? Minecraft. And that shit's ugly. Another game I constantly praise here? Spiral Knights. With a massive art team of less than 5. Sol Survivor and Killing Floor are still installed since their release and neither of them have anything to boast graphically.

I'm just sayin' If you look at the problem from my point of view. It's pretty obvious what the issue is. Anno 2070 still looks amazing, but it's graphics are not as shiny as Saint's Row the third. Guess what? I'm having considerably more fun with Anno, than I did with SR3.

I don't even like trade networks and city-builders with fetch quests. How the fuck did this land on my computer?

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