One Million Moms Want Same-Sex Archie Comic Out of Toys 'R' Us

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Kitsuna10060:

would you preferred i called them exactly what i think of them? i was being nice about it

You misunderstand, I was joking that it would be be just as good for the world if they were MORE archaic. That being said, I suppose government encouraged homosexuality is a bit much...crazy Greeks.

Mike Fang:
... Explaining the birds and the bees to a child for the first time is something that needs to be approached carefully. Having to do that at the same time as explaining homosexuality is really tossing a kid into the deep end to teach him or her how to swim...

I would argue though, that you see heterosexual marriages all over the place. The only time you would have to answer questions about both gay marriage and sex at the same time is if the comic featured gay married sex on the cover. Parents routinely explain marriage and love in a heterosexual context without going into graphic sex. If that is their prevailing argument, then it is flawed for those reasons.

Volf:
Don't see the problem, parents should be able to limit what their kids see.

Yes, by not buying it for them.

The only question here is whether or not gay marriage is in and of itself vulgar, and it's not an asinine question in the slightest.

DragonLord Seth:

You good sir missed the obvious where a woman cannot impregnate another woman, and a man can't impregnate a man, most kids they have are adopted from hetero families who didn't want kids.

You, good sir, missed the even more obvious where a woman who is a lesbian can have sex with a man (or use a sperm donor) in order to get pregnant. And a man who is gay can donate sperm in order to help propagate the species. You clearly don't know much about gay parenting. Most kids are not from adopted hetero families who didn't want kids. All of the gay/lesbian couples I know who have children got those children from means other than adoption (and I know lots and lots of gay parents--how many do you know?)

Further, adopting a child who would otherwise not have any care is also a form of propagating the species.

And you completely missed my point that equality it not based on child bearing, nor is aiding in the propagating of the species only limited to giving birth.

Bravo. It's not like they're forcing these whiners to buy the comic. And unless you're a completely bigoted asshat, it's not like it would be difficult to explain.

one thing to say about this, FUCKING. BURN.

GamemasterAnthony:

Grey Day for Elcia:

Bigotry and intolerance are far worse traits to expose a child to than homosexuality ever could be.

Seconded... *looks up* Er...make that whatevernumberworks-ed.

Personally, someone should give One Million Moms a nice talking to for what their doing. Like say...maybe have the American Civil Liberties Union explain to them what a First Amendment Rights Violation is...

CAPTCHA: lutand treaty

Mr. President, the Lutand Treaty is ready to sign...

Firstly, thanks for the laugh, lol.

But I gotta remind you here that it is also the First Amendment right of Million Ignorant Bigots, wait, One Million Moms, wait... A Few Thousand Moms to request the comic not be sold and to protest its existence.

I get what you meant by your post, just you went about it a little incorrectly.

Lutand treaty... rofl.

DragonLord Seth:
[Most] kids [gay couples] have are adopted from hetero families who didn't want kids.

That is hideously offensive. No doubt unintentional, but you may went to change your language there. The way it reads now, you are saying most adopted children are unwanted accidents by their birth parents, and that is simply not the case. At all. The most common reason for giving a child up for adoption is an inability to care for them.

Having a mother like this is child abuse.

If I was a child of someone like that, I don't think I'd lift a finger to help them in their old age.

I have to say I find the aggression of people in this thread shocking.

Guess what? Homosexuality is incredibly controversial, guess what else! we are talking about children viewing material that may or may not be undertsandable/ acceptable to them or their parents.

I still say the magazine should have stayed out of political issues like this.

I have to say, i support 1 million moms 100%. putting that issue of Arche where anyone can see can make kids think that thing is normal when, in fact, it is an abnormality. kids should not think that kind of thing is normal in any...yeah, this is a totaly stupid line of reasoning. parents are supposed to explain things to their kids, otherwise they will get their views from TV and their friends, neither of which are able to give childern a decent up bringing. no mater what your stance on the issue is (and i am all for gay rights, even though i have come to a gridlock over its morality) pretending it does not exsisit is not a way to deal with it. in the US, this is being put on ballots and presented before courts everywhere, and kids pay attention to what is being done, said, and discussed aorund them, many times more so than adults.

Wookie 1:
I have to say I find the aggression of people in this thread shocking.

Guess what? Homosexuality is incredibly controversial, guess what else! we are talking about children viewing material that may or may not be undertsandable/ acceptable to them or their parents.

I still say the magazine should have stayed out of political issues like this.

What do you exspect? contriversal issues always bring out the inner Rush Limbaughs and Keith Obermen in people. its just a good thing the escapist staff is smart enough to post political topics where %99.999 of us will be on one side of an issue.

Realitycrash:

To put it very simple: Your opinion is of exactly equal worth as another persons. But since there aren't a lot of you (or enough of you), it matters LESS. That's how our democracy works.

You are simply wrong on this last point:
1. There are approximately as many people against homosexual marriage as there are for it (even with the one-sided media/hollywood flood on the issue); that you seem to think you are in the majority on this issue is symptomatic of a superiority complex. The reason pro-homosexual legislation has been passed in places like California is because the judicial system - a limited group of politically motivated individuals - decided that the result of the popular vote was wrong, and changed it. Not democracy - just rule by law.

On topic: Please try to imagine how you would react if the issue was not homosexuality being OK (a liberal talking point); but, say, Christianity? How would you react if it was pushing an agenda you did not agree with to your children? If you had to explain to them that they can't buy any more copies of Archie because Archie and his friends now spout Bible verses every two pages and encourage kids to go to church?

Also, kindly stop using words like "bigot" and "homophobe." You aren't being clever by labelling an entire system of belief in such a negative fashion, you are simply exposing your own "intolerance, and animosity toward those of differing beliefs."

One o' dem threads about a stupid thing that happened, so we can all feel good as we type out exactly what we think of them in a place where they'll never read it. Just as I thought.

omicron1:

On topic: Please try to imagine how you would react if the issue was not homosexuality being OK (a liberal talking point); but, say, Christianity? How would you react if it was pushing an agenda you did not agree with to your children? If you had to explain to them that they can't buy any more copies of Archie because Archie and his friends now spout Bible verses every two pages and encourage kids to go to church?

My kids can read what they want, and ask me any question they want.

Beyond that, this openly gay character has been in Archie Comics for almost 2 years now, nothing has dramatically changed in this issue. Now in your example, the entire comic would have changed and would no longer be what it was before. That I would have a problem with, just as I would have a problem with veggietales dropping it's christian undertones.

And you sir have let your own ignorance shine through by assuming that people who support gay marriage have a problem with Christians

artanis_neravar:

omicron1:

On topic: Please try to imagine how you would react if the issue was not homosexuality being OK (a liberal talking point); but, say, Christianity? How would you react if it was pushing an agenda you did not agree with to your children? If you had to explain to them that they can't buy any more copies of Archie because Archie and his friends now spout Bible verses every two pages and encourage kids to go to church?

My kids can read what they want, and ask me any question they want.

Beyond that, this openly gay character has been in Archie Comics for almost 2 years now, nothing has dramatically changed in this issue. Now in your example, the entire comic would have changed and would no longer be what it was before. That I would have a problem with, just as I would have a problem with veggietales dropping it's christian undertones.

And you sir have let your own ignorance shine through by assuming that people who support gay marriage have a problem with Christians

I am only making the assumption that people on the Escapist have a problem with Christians. It's a pretty fair assumption, in all honesty.

On the second subject, I would consider the presence of any openly political idea in a previously apolitical medium problematic. In this case, the problem point simply moves to 2 years ago, although most people would probably agree that introducing a character that espouses a viewpoint is somewhat different from devoting an entire issue to cheerleading that viewpoint...

On the first subject: Congratulations. You personally are a good bit more tolerant than the vast majority of Americans in both parties. Please do not believe I was specifically addressing you; rather, I was addressing the politically correct zeitgeist, as manifested in the statistical mean Escapist forumgoer.

Wookie 1:

I still say the magazine should have stayed out of political issues like this.

Why? The censorship of videogames is often covered, the controversy surrounding movies is covered (the casting of Idris Elba as Heimdall comes to mind) this is no different. It's all connected, this personally reminds me of when Equality Now wanted to ban Japanese Erotic Games or when Faux News accusing Mass Effect 1 of being a sex simulator.

omicron1:

artanis_neravar:

omicron1:

On topic: Please try to imagine how you would react if the issue was not homosexuality being OK (a liberal talking point); but, say, Christianity? How would you react if it was pushing an agenda you did not agree with to your children? If you had to explain to them that they can't buy any more copies of Archie because Archie and his friends now spout Bible verses every two pages and encourage kids to go to church?

My kids can read what they want, and ask me any question they want.

Beyond that, this openly gay character has been in Archie Comics for almost 2 years now, nothing has dramatically changed in this issue. Now in your example, the entire comic would have changed and would no longer be what it was before. That I would have a problem with, just as I would have a problem with veggietales dropping it's christian undertones.

And you sir have let your own ignorance shine through by assuming that people who support gay marriage have a problem with Christians

I am only making the assumption that people on the Escapist have a problem with Christians. It's a pretty fair assumption, in all honesty.

On the second subject, I would consider the presence of any openly political idea in a previously apolitical medium problematic. In this case, the problem point simply moves to 2 years ago, although most people would probably agree that introducing a character that espouses a viewpoint is somewhat different from devoting an entire issue to cheerleading that viewpoint...

On the first subject: Congratulations. You personally are a good bit more tolerant than the vast majority of Americans in both parties. Please do not believe I was specifically addressing you; rather, I was addressing the politically correct zeitgeist, as manifested in the statistical mean Escapist forumgoer.

Ok if you are only judging the escapist then I withdraw my comment. I would like to point out that if (at least in the US) the debate is split 50/50 and %80 of Americans identify themselves as Christians, then %80 of either side would be christian. (%50 of %80 is %40 and %40 compared to %50 is %80 not saying you can't do the math, just wanted to include it before people try to tell me my math is wrong.)

On the second subject: I do see what you are saying, however it seems easier to not buy the issue rather than try to ban it so people who don't have a problem with it can't get it, I mean how do you think the reaction would be if people tried to get stores to stop selling veggietales (which I use as my examples, because it is heavily christian in it's subject and is intended for children like Archie is) there would be the exact same uproar from the opposite side. People use religion to try to ban things, but are willing to defend it if anything they believe in should be under attack. If laws can't be made against religion, then religion should not be the reasoning behind laws against anything else. And so far no one has been able to give me a non-religious meaning for why we shouldn't allow gay marriage.

On the first subject: Thank you I try my best.

Andy Chalk:
This is the last place a parent would expect to be confronted with questions from their children on topics that are too complicated for them to understand.

Oh, the kids would understand just fine if things are properly explained. The parents are much more likely to be incapable of comprehension.

Lovely Mixture:
Faux News accusing Mass Effect 1 of being a sex simulator.

Seriously? Fuax News? That isn't clever, it's doesn't even make sense.

chimpzy:

Andy Chalk:
This is the last place a parent would expect to be confronted with questions from their children on topics that are too complicated for them to understand.

Oh, the kids would understand just fine if things are properly explained. The parents are much more likely to be incapable of comprehension.

And with this, I would like to add this to the conversation

http://www.the-gutters.com/

Great comic about this issue

Wookie 1:
I still say the magazine should have stayed out of political issues like this.

I, on the other hand, wish for a day when who is having sex / in love with who isn't a political issue...

Captcha: the assloth

omicron1:

On topic: Please try to imagine how you would react if the issue was not homosexuality being OK (a liberal talking point); but, say, Christianity? How would you react if it was pushing an agenda you did not agree with to your children? If you had to explain to them that they can't buy any more copies of Archie because Archie and his friends now spout Bible verses every two pages and encourage kids to go to church?

Archie comics has done exactly that. I happen to own a couple issues of Archie from Spire Christian Comics that is all Christian parable all the time. And these comics were not just Christian, but politically Christian. And certainly pushing agenda that I don't agree with. But so what? I read them as a kid I turned out fine.

But what about the children? Well here we have to ask ourselves some questions. If my child wanted to read Spire's Archie's I'd have to think about if I want to say, "No, you can't read those comics, but you can read these." or if I think my kid is old enough I might say, "Okay, you can read these comics, but then we'll have a discussion about them afterwards." You know, I would parent my children and use this as an opportunity to figure out what my kids think about things and to try to guide them to be as good as they can. And if my children come out to me as questioning...as perhaps wanting to be Christian, wanting to go to church, whatever, I would listen to them and support them. I would try to expose them to a lot of different religious traditions and a lot of different sorts of Christianties so they could make the best informed decision. I'd hope if they chose to be Christian, it would be the MCC or a denomination that is welcoming of sexual diversity and one that is progressive in terms of gender relations. But ultimately that will me be child's choice. A choice that I wouldn't leave them alone to make, but actively parent them through. In this way, my children get to know me better and I get to know my children better.

Now, if they wanted to be part of some crazy-hateful denomination like the Westboro Baptist Church, or something that is a dangerous like a cult, that would be really hard, and I don't know how I'd react, however at no point in time, would I campaign to get the Spire Archie's taken off the shelves. At no point would I argue that they shouldn't be produced. We do live in a free country after all. And the sorts of Christian kids who'd like the Spire Archies (or those who want to broaden their knowledge of some christian attitudes like I did) deserve to have access to those comics. They aren't illegal, they shouldn't be banned.

I'll admit, if my kid ended up as a hateful person (hating gays, hating X racial group, hating X nationality, hating X religious groups) as a person with a lack of empathy for his or her fellow person, I'm going to feel like I have failed in imparting the values that I wanted to impart to my child...but that is not going to be the fault of a Spire Archie comic...or even a Jack Chick tract.

Here is a bit of information on Spire's Archie Comics: http://generationexploitation.blogspot.com/2006/06/history-of-christian-archi_114951302719460209.html

Volf:
Again, what about those of us that don't think homosexual marriage is the same thing as heterosexual marriage? Why should we have children's material deal with this subject if we don't want to have them exposed to it?

....You're trolling all of us aren't you. That's it. That's what you're doing!

I figured it out! Wow, I'm upset it took me so long to figure it out. It's so obvious. It's the only way I can see someone willingly saying that on a website like this and defending it.

artanis_neravar:

Lovely Mixture:
Faux News accusing Mass Effect 1 of being a sex simulator.

Seriously? Fuax News? That isn't clever, it's doesn't even make sense.

Faux is a French word for "false." Describes Fox News' rhetoric well enough
Most puns and wordplays aren't clever anyway. Don't complain about small stuff.

Also the sentence "it's doesn't even make sense" in fact, does not make sense.

CleverCover:

Volf:
Again, what about those of us that don't think homosexual marriage is the same thing as heterosexual marriage? Why should we have children's material deal with this subject if we don't want to have them exposed to it?

....You're trolling all of us aren't you. That's it. That's what you're doing!

I figured it out! Wow, I'm upset it took me so long to figure it out. It's so obvious. It's the only way I can see someone willingly saying that on a website like this and defending it.

It was a legitimate perspective I had, chill out and go to comment #162

Lovely Mixture:

artanis_neravar:

Lovely Mixture:
Faux News accusing Mass Effect 1 of being a sex simulator.

Seriously? Fuax News? That isn't clever, it's doesn't even make sense.

Faux is a French word for "false." Describes Fox News' rhetoric well enough
Most puns and wordplays aren't clever anyway. Don't complain about small stuff.

Also the sentence "it's doesn't even make sense" in fact, does not make sense.

It is also not pronounced anywhere similar to "fox", no is the spelling similar. A pun is exploiting multiple uses of a word, or multiple words that sound the same or similar for a humorous effect, Which Faux News is not.

Holy moley, 13 pages and this Volf character still hasn't given up... I guess that's one way to hit a four-digit post count. The only reason people are against marriage between people of the same sex is a cultural bias derived from a religious one.

I guess ultimately, nothing about this story is news.
Some guys want to marry guys, not news.
A major comic brand publishes a comic including a marriage, not news.
People are prejudiced because it's something they disagree with, definitely not news.

Is anyone else weary of people and their prejudices?

Also:

MasterOfHisOwnDomain:

Wookie 1:
I still say the magazine should have stayed out of political issues like this.

I, on the other hand, wish for a day when who is having sex / in love with who isn't a political issue...

You sum this argument up very nicely.

artanis_neravar:

Lovely Mixture:

artanis_neravar:
Seriously? Fuax News? That isn't clever, it's doesn't even make sense.

Faux is a French word for "false." Describes Fox News' rhetoric well enough
Most puns and wordplays aren't clever anyway. Don't complain about small stuff.

Also the sentence "it's doesn't even make sense" in fact, does not make sense.

It is also not pronounced anywhere similar to "fox", no is the spelling similar. A pun is exploiting multiple uses of a word, or multiple words that sound the same or similar for a humorous effect, Which Faux News is not.

Visually I found it humorous, stop being so damn incorrigible. In the hopes of not straying off-topic, I'll leave it at that.

Lost In The Void:
I think this sums it up nicely

Seriously are we still unable to understand that people of all orientations just want to be able to marry?

I love Louie. This made me want to go watch some of his stand-up. Unfortunately, I live with people who get upset when I watch some of the more risque stand-up.

oh no, we must protect the kids from 'THE GAY'!!!

these mums need to sit down, relax and maybe learn to count past 10 without taking their shoes off at some point. then perhaps someone needs to give them a slap and tell them that homosexual people have just as much right to be miserable as heterosexual people.

ok, a bit more serious, i get the feeling that this is fueled more by homophobia then 'protecting the children from exposure to homosexual marriage', either way, 44k "moms", stfu

harvz:
oh no, we must protect the kids from 'THE GAY'!!!

these mums need to sit down, relax and maybe learn to count past 10 without taking their shoes off at some point. then perhaps someone needs to give them a slap and tell them that homosexual people have just as much right to be miserable as heterosexual people.

ok, a bit more serious, i get the feeling that this is fueled more by homophobia then 'protecting the children from exposure to homosexual marriage', either way, 44k "moms", stfu

Why? they have the right to free speech too. Unless of course you want to supress people's freedoms in this regard, (maybe next you'll find another group to censor, ironically rather like people seem to accuse here).

azukar:
Holy moley, 13 pages and this Volf character still hasn't given up... I guess that's one way to hit a four-digit post count. The only reason people are against marriage between people of the same sex is a cultural bias derived from a religious one.

There are other justifications than religion, lots of them. Particularly that of it making no evoloutionary sense whatsoever that this would have any natural advantage (after all they are less likely to reproduce than the norm).

Are we actually surprised that some angry women want to not have their children exposed to anything in society? I don't see the issue, these people get pissed at everything that means they might have to actually teach their children something. They have a right to spew their bile, and the store can do whatever it pleases, which will probably be to either ignore it or reach a sort of compromise. I'll continue to ignore them and their misguided nonsense.

I do wonder if they go looking for these opportunities to rant just to gain some publicity, but on the plus side it's a bit of free publicity for Toys R Us.

Wookie 1:
[quote="harvz" post="7.352583.14001159"]
Why? they have the right to free speech too. Unless of course you want to supress people's freedoms in this regard, (maybe next you'll find another group to censor, ironically rather like people seem to accuse here).

ever tried walking up to an african guy and asking "Hows the fried chicken? I know you and people love it soooo much" and then just say "its free speech, what are you going to do, suppress my freedom?" the answer is no, because its horribly racist and you will be eating through a straw for at least the next month or two.

i really think its more about knowing where to draw the line and i really believe that topics such as these should be closer to the racist area of sensitivity and not just open to being abused constantly.

also, when i get into power, these are not the only ones i shall deny their freedoms, fox will be joining them too so vote, well, me

Grey Day for Elcia:

DragonLord Seth:
[Most] kids [gay couples] have are adopted from hetero families who didn't want kids.

That is hideously offensive. No doubt unintentional, but you may went to change your language there. The way it reads now, you are saying most adopted children are unwanted accidents by their birth parents, and that is simply not the case. At all. The most common reason for giving a child up for adoption is an inability to care for them.

If I may:

Being the son of a lesbian, I can say the way it works is that it seems that the child is already born by the time the original parent's partner is born. That is what happened with me at least.

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