Torchlight 2 Devs Have "No Plans" For Console Release

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Kheapathic:

AJey:

Kheapathic:

The only truth around here is it doesn't matter what the conversation is about, there's always "THAT GUY" who will show up and piss all over it in the name of glorious PC gaming. You let your fandom dictate your attitude in the name of superiority. I guess the truth is you're a mental deficiet, because highlighting enemies and clicking them to death isn't exactly what I'd call hard.

Well, Mr. high-on-the-horse, lets look at the facts then. First, baseless assumptions are done by two kinds of people: those who see too little and those who see what's not there. I suppose we know where you fall, judging by the fact that you think my comment is about the glory of PC gaming. Secondly, I dont possess fandom to any gaming platform. Each have their merits. I see you are doing well on assumptions. Third, if you thought my statement was wrong, why didnt you address it? Because you know that I'm right. For a game like Torchlight 2 to be adapted for a console, many things would have to change and most of them in a bad direction. From lack of modding support to lack of buttons on a controller, Not to mention the superiority of keyboard + mouse controls. The game would be dumbed down to fit inside the boundaries of a console. Ironic you accuse me of fandom when you cant see these simplest things.

Baseless assumptions on both sides, so don't act like you're no guilty of this as well. You claim to not possess fandom, but without coaxing you post about dumbing things down for consoles. You bring up how I didn't address what's wrong with your statement, because I understand PC's are generally more powerful than consoles and have more options with a keyboard and mouse; mods are a preference for each user, so no need to address that. You acknowledge how I didn't press that issue, because I don't see it as wrong. What I do see is the standard "PC are better" coming in and pissing on everything, like you have to keep the console players away from the game. Ergo I claim what I see, an obnoxious brat stirring shit because they have to let everyone know that PC's are superior. Good for you, when you stop measuring your dick by your PC's processing power maybe you'll understand the complaints that many people have about the PC users here.

Look, if you want to misconstrue everything I say, be my guest. It's even amusing actually. But at least stay on topic. Here, let me make it clear and simple for you - I dont care if PC or consoles are better. I Dont Care!!! All I'm saying is that console version of Torchlight 2 would be inferior to PC version of Torchlight 2. Purely mechanically. That's it.

AJey:

Lunar Templar:

AJey:

Then just try squeezing keyboard + mouse controls into a controller. Even if you manage, keyboard + mouse will beat it any day of the week. Then go for the UI and replace the comfort of a mouse driven UI into arrow driven UI. The skills and combat and the convenience of hotkeys. And the list is long. Much would have to be changed and most of it in a bad way.

:3

your funny

the 'convenience' (snickers) of hot keys is the easiest if you actually knew anything about the button layout on a the modern controller.

using a 360 pad as an example.

shoulder/triggers = 1-4
d-pad = 5-8
YXBA = mouse slots and 9-0
thumb sticks = L for movement R for aiming and those skills that require you to place them to work
thumb stick buttons = mana/HP pots
start/back = the menus on the left an right of the screen.

The UI being altered would be the 'hardest part' but at the end of the day I'm very certain they could come up with something just as good for a console release, assuming they had any intent to.

The only REAL detriment to a console release of TL2 over its PC counter part is the loss of mods. But since this IS TL2 and not a TES game (a series which really NEEDS its mods to be even passable) the vanilla TL2 is a great game on its own and doesn't really need the mods.

Took me 5 minutes, tops, think that up. Not that you'll listen. In fact I fully expect you to blow it off and the continue to rant against the 'dumbing down' of games like that's what porting a PC game to a console is, or continue console bashing, or both.

Guess what? you get to be wrong, so very, very wrong. Altering a control scheme to work on another platform is not dumbing the game down. The dumbing down of games is all the hand holding in the modern FPS, or the across the board drop in difficulty of the average game (like how DMC:Devil May Cry is considerably easier then DMC 4) that is what dumbing a game down is.

Reply or don't, I couldn't care less, since I pretty much know what your gonna say anyway.

So you see nothing wrong with your reply? Like the fact that what you described is emulating the controls, not adapting them. Congratulations, half of your buttons will be assigned for skill hotkeys. How is that exactly on par with a keyboard? And where are you gonna put the rest of commands? Sprint, pick up loot, highlight loot, open minimap, open inventory, for crying out loud. Oh, right, you will have to use directional UI like Skyrim had. Boy, that one was convenient, wasnt it. besides, its not a question if they can make it, it's a question of which one is better. And you really want to tell me that directional UI is better than mouse driven UI? Or controller is better than keyboard and mouse? There are games and genres where controller is superior, no doubt about that. But please, do me a favor and stop imagining that console version of Torchlight 2 would be on par with PC version.

seriously .... I have to explain the picks ups. I would have though that would have been self explanatory *sighs*

what button do you use to pick up the drops with the MOUSE (ya know the think with both buttons bound to skill slots -.-). the left one, since that's the primary attack button X is the home it'd likely have. cause ya know >.> no game in the history of ever has had one button do more then one thing, nope this is a totally new concept -.-

a controller would be better, since the movement is bound to the oh so wonderful idea of 'hold mouse button down and you run that way' design -.- yeah, that'S oh so much better then using an the thumb sticks to get around.

as for the UI, lol, really, your comparing Bethesda's half assed programing "skills" to Runic's? really? Need I remind you that almost all of the good-great content/fixes for any TSE game made, is made by THE MODDERS and not the people, ya know, paid to make THE GAME. Your a PC gamer right? How do you not know this. But since I am not a modder nor programer my self I admit to not having a UI solution on hand. How ever, it can be done well, just requires a good team of programers that know what they're doing.

the simple truth is Torch Light 2 can be ported, and ported well to the consoles, and the list to make it work isn't nearly as long as you think, assuming that it was actually gonna happen. feel free to stop overblowing just how complex the game actually is anytime. Its a Diablo clone (and a better Diablo then Diablo at that), not Rome: Total War.

Lunar Templar:

AJey:

Lunar Templar:

:3

your funny

the 'convenience' (snickers) of hot keys is the easiest if you actually knew anything about the button layout on a the modern controller.

using a 360 pad as an example.

shoulder/triggers = 1-4
d-pad = 5-8
YXBA = mouse slots and 9-0
thumb sticks = L for movement R for aiming and those skills that require you to place them to work
thumb stick buttons = mana/HP pots
start/back = the menus on the left an right of the screen.

The UI being altered would be the 'hardest part' but at the end of the day I'm very certain they could come up with something just as good for a console release, assuming they had any intent to.

The only REAL detriment to a console release of TL2 over its PC counter part is the loss of mods. But since this IS TL2 and not a TES game (a series which really NEEDS its mods to be even passable) the vanilla TL2 is a great game on its own and doesn't really need the mods.

Took me 5 minutes, tops, think that up. Not that you'll listen. In fact I fully expect you to blow it off and the continue to rant against the 'dumbing down' of games like that's what porting a PC game to a console is, or continue console bashing, or both.

Guess what? you get to be wrong, so very, very wrong. Altering a control scheme to work on another platform is not dumbing the game down. The dumbing down of games is all the hand holding in the modern FPS, or the across the board drop in difficulty of the average game (like how DMC:Devil May Cry is considerably easier then DMC 4) that is what dumbing a game down is.

Reply or don't, I couldn't care less, since I pretty much know what your gonna say anyway.

So you see nothing wrong with your reply? Like the fact that what you described is emulating the controls, not adapting them. Congratulations, half of your buttons will be assigned for skill hotkeys. How is that exactly on par with a keyboard? And where are you gonna put the rest of commands? Sprint, pick up loot, highlight loot, open minimap, open inventory, for crying out loud. Oh, right, you will have to use directional UI like Skyrim had. Boy, that one was convenient, wasnt it. besides, its not a question if they can make it, it's a question of which one is better. And you really want to tell me that directional UI is better than mouse driven UI? Or controller is better than keyboard and mouse? There are games and genres where controller is superior, no doubt about that. But please, do me a favor and stop imagining that console version of Torchlight 2 would be on par with PC version.

seriously .... I have to explain the picks ups. I would have though that would have been self explanatory *sighs*

what button do you use to pick up the drops with the MOUSE (ya know the think with both buttons bound to skill slots -.-). the left one, since that's the primary attack button X is the home it'd likely have. cause ya know >.> no game in the history of ever has had one button do more then one thing, nope this is a totally new concept -.-

a controller would be better, since the movement is bound to the oh so wonderful idea of 'hold mouse button down and you run that way' design -.- yeah, that'S oh so much better then using an the thumb sticks to get around.

as for the UI, lol, really, your comparing Bethesda's half assed programing "skills" to Runic's? really? Need I remind you that almost all of the good-great content/fixes for any TSE game made, is made by THE MODDERS and not the people, ya know, paid to make THE GAME. Your a PC gamer right? How do you not know this. But since I am not a modder nor programer my self I admit to not having a UI solution on hand. How ever, it can be done well, just requires a good team of programers that know what they're doing.

the simple truth is Torch Light 2 can be ported, and ported well to the consoles, and the list to make it work isn't nearly as long as you think, assuming that it was actually gonna happen. feel free to stop overblowing just how complex the game actually is anytime. Its a Diablo clone (and a better Diablo then Diablo at that), not Rome: Total War.

What is wrong with you? Am I speaking foreign language or something? Can you understand simple context or not? I dont care about your silly button layouts. All I am arguing here is a simple truth - PC version of Torchlight 2 will always be better than console version of Torchlight 2 due to mechanical limitations. It's irrelevant how good or bad the port might be. That's not the point for crying out loud. Keyboard and mouse are objectively better for that game than a controller. Can you understand that or not?

AJey:

What is wrong with you? Am I speaking foreign language or something? Can you understand simple context or not? I dont care about your silly button layouts. All I am arguing here is a simple truth - PC version of Torchlight 2 will always be better than console version of Torchlight 2 due to mechanical limitations. It's irrelevant how good or bad the port might be. That's not the point for crying out loud. Keyboard and mouse are objectively better for that game than a controller. Can you understand that or not?

bad choice of words ....

Objectively better, isn't factually better. KB/M is factually better for RTS, as example. All saying something is 'objectively better' translates to is 'it is of my own opinion that this is better', and opinion is hardly credible as fact. Especially since the port in question is never going to happen anyway so your ranting about something that's never gonna happen anyway, thus there's no way to confirm beyond doubt which version would be actually better or not. It's just your opinion the PC version would be better, nothing more. Please stop acting like it's anything more then that. It's becoming irritating to read.

AJey:

Kheapathic:

AJey:

Well, Mr. high-on-the-horse, lets look at the facts then. First, baseless assumptions are done by two kinds of people: those who see too little and those who see what's not there. I suppose we know where you fall, judging by the fact that you think my comment is about the glory of PC gaming. Secondly, I dont possess fandom to any gaming platform. Each have their merits. I see you are doing well on assumptions. Third, if you thought my statement was wrong, why didnt you address it? Because you know that I'm right. For a game like Torchlight 2 to be adapted for a console, many things would have to change and most of them in a bad direction. From lack of modding support to lack of buttons on a controller, Not to mention the superiority of keyboard + mouse controls. The game would be dumbed down to fit inside the boundaries of a console. Ironic you accuse me of fandom when you cant see these simplest things.

Baseless assumptions on both sides, so don't act like you're no guilty of this as well. You claim to not possess fandom, but without coaxing you post about dumbing things down for consoles. You bring up how I didn't address what's wrong with your statement, because I understand PC's are generally more powerful than consoles and have more options with a keyboard and mouse; mods are a preference for each user, so no need to address that. You acknowledge how I didn't press that issue, because I don't see it as wrong. What I do see is the standard "PC are better" coming in and pissing on everything, like you have to keep the console players away from the game. Ergo I claim what I see, an obnoxious brat stirring shit because they have to let everyone know that PC's are superior. Good for you, when you stop measuring your dick by your PC's processing power maybe you'll understand the complaints that many people have about the PC users here.

Look, if you want to misconstrue everything I say, be my guest. It's even amusing actually. But at least stay on topic. Here, let me make it clear and simple for you - I dont care if PC or consoles are better. I Dont Care!!! All I'm saying is that console version of Torchlight 2 would be inferior to PC version of Torchlight 2. Purely mechanically. That's it.

I'm not misconrtueing anything you say, and I highly doubt you care if PC or consoles are better. The thread was going just fine before you came in and had to have your comment about the company not dumbing it down for the console crowd. There was no argument before you came in and wanted to make your statement about which is superior. If you don't care about which is better, I have to question you motive for making that statement. Again, there was no argument, so what was the point of your statement; aside from your smug satisfaction that the game wouldn't be available on other platforms?

Damn it! I was hoping to get TL2 for the 360. Guess I wont be playing it anytime soon then.

loc978:
...There was a 360 release of Torchlight 1? Huh. How did they make the inventory system work? Seems like sorting loot would take forever with a controller...

It's been a while since I last played, but I don't remember moving things around in the inventory being that bad.

AJey:
Blah blah blah. Snip

I don't know why you keep going on and on about the game getting dumbed down and whatnot when the truth is, unless you are a PC Nazi, it doesn't matter. So long as they get the controls to work well and have the game still be fun only those with a stick shoved up their ass would care. I'm sure even you realize that there are plenty of people out there who don't give a shit if it's a slightly "inferior" version of the PC game because they just want to play the game on their system of choice.

Kheapathic:

AJey:

Kheapathic:

Baseless assumptions on both sides, so don't act like you're no guilty of this as well. You claim to not possess fandom, but without coaxing you post about dumbing things down for consoles. You bring up how I didn't address what's wrong with your statement, because I understand PC's are generally more powerful than consoles and have more options with a keyboard and mouse; mods are a preference for each user, so no need to address that. You acknowledge how I didn't press that issue, because I don't see it as wrong. What I do see is the standard "PC are better" coming in and pissing on everything, like you have to keep the console players away from the game. Ergo I claim what I see, an obnoxious brat stirring shit because they have to let everyone know that PC's are superior. Good for you, when you stop measuring your dick by your PC's processing power maybe you'll understand the complaints that many people have about the PC users here.

Look, if you want to misconstrue everything I say, be my guest. It's even amusing actually. But at least stay on topic. Here, let me make it clear and simple for you - I dont care if PC or consoles are better. I Dont Care!!! All I'm saying is that console version of Torchlight 2 would be inferior to PC version of Torchlight 2. Purely mechanically. That's it.

I'm not misconrtueing anything you say, and I highly doubt you care if PC or consoles are better. The thread was going just fine before you came in and had to have your comment about the company not dumbing it down for the console crowd. There was no argument before you came in and wanted to make your statement about which is superior. If you don't care about which is better, I have to question you motive for making that statement. Again, there was no argument, so what was the point of your statement; aside from your smug satisfaction that the game wouldn't be available on other platforms?

Uh, my comment is self-explanatory, really. It consists of few very basic words and is easy to understand. I have no idea why you have trouble understanding it. I was simply pleased that this game wont be dumbed down for a console. It's simple, really. Mechanically speaking, most genres are better for a PC based on control scheme alone. Other games are better for a controller, again, based on control scheme. If they were to take PC controls of that game and put them on a controller, it would have been inferior controls. Just like mouse is better for shooting, having keyboard is better for certain RPGs. What's not to understand?

Lunar Templar:

AJey:

What is wrong with you? Am I speaking foreign language or something? Can you understand simple context or not? I dont care about your silly button layouts. All I am arguing here is a simple truth - PC version of Torchlight 2 will always be better than console version of Torchlight 2 due to mechanical limitations. It's irrelevant how good or bad the port might be. That's not the point for crying out loud. Keyboard and mouse are objectively better for that game than a controller. Can you understand that or not?

bad choice of words ....

Objectively better, isn't factually better. KB/M is factually better for RTS, as example. All saying something is 'objectively better' translates to is 'it is of my own opinion that this is better', and opinion is hardly credible as fact. Especially since the port in question is never going to happen anyway so your ranting about something that's never gonna happen anyway, thus there's no way to confirm beyond doubt which version would be actually better or not. It's just your opinion the PC version would be better, nothing more. Please stop acting like it's anything more then that. It's becoming irritating to read.

Hotkey based RPGs or mouse-driven RPG's are better on PC. If you think it is not objectively true, you should compare the two together.

AJey:
Finally, a company willing to refrain from dumbing down their game for the console market.

It's nice to see a game that remains exclusive for PC once it achieves success... almost all others get ported but we get like no ports to PC :(

AJey:

Kheapathic:

AJey:

Look, if you want to misconstrue everything I say, be my guest. It's even amusing actually. But at least stay on topic. Here, let me make it clear and simple for you - I dont care if PC or consoles are better. I Dont Care!!! All I'm saying is that console version of Torchlight 2 would be inferior to PC version of Torchlight 2. Purely mechanically. That's it.

I'm not misconrtueing anything you say, and I highly doubt you care if PC or consoles are better. The thread was going just fine before you came in and had to have your comment about the company not dumbing it down for the console crowd. There was no argument before you came in and wanted to make your statement about which is superior. If you don't care about which is better, I have to question you motive for making that statement. Again, there was no argument, so what was the point of your statement; aside from your smug satisfaction that the game wouldn't be available on other platforms?

Uh, my comment is self-explanatory, really. It consists of few very basic words and is easy to understand. I have no idea why you have trouble understanding it. I was simply pleased that this game wont be dumbed down for a console. It's simple, really. Mechanically speaking, most genres are better for a PC based on control scheme alone. Other games are better for a controller, again, based on control scheme. If they were to take PC controls of that game and put them on a controller, it would have been inferior controls. Just like mouse is better for shooting, having keyboard is better for certain RPGs. What's not to understand?

And yet you still claim to hold no preference. Your mechanically speaking is your opinion; RTS I can agree with, others are open for personal preference. And even if the control scheme is different, you'd rather keep a game away from others instead of letting the devs find a way to work around a limitation. Do you really not understand how your preference is showing?

Kheapathic:

AJey:

Kheapathic:

I'm not misconrtueing anything you say, and I highly doubt you care if PC or consoles are better. The thread was going just fine before you came in and had to have your comment about the company not dumbing it down for the console crowd. There was no argument before you came in and wanted to make your statement about which is superior. If you don't care about which is better, I have to question you motive for making that statement. Again, there was no argument, so what was the point of your statement; aside from your smug satisfaction that the game wouldn't be available on other platforms?

Uh, my comment is self-explanatory, really. It consists of few very basic words and is easy to understand. I have no idea why you have trouble understanding it. I was simply pleased that this game wont be dumbed down for a console. It's simple, really. Mechanically speaking, most genres are better for a PC based on control scheme alone. Other games are better for a controller, again, based on control scheme. If they were to take PC controls of that game and put them on a controller, it would have been inferior controls. Just like mouse is better for shooting, having keyboard is better for certain RPGs. What's not to understand?

And yet you still claim to hold no preference. Your mechanically speaking is your opinion; RTS I can agree with, others are open for personal preference. And even if the control scheme is different, you'd rather keep a game away from others instead of letting the devs find a way to work around a limitation. Do you really not understand how your preference is showing?

Preference has nothing to do with it. You can prefer an inferior system and be happy with it. I am talking about objective advantages. So you agree RTS are better on PC. What about FPS? Shooting is more accurate with a mouse how ever you look at it. What about action RPGs? A mouse gives you much better precision. Racing can be better with controller, and platformers, and point-and-click adventures, and simulators etc. Just like I said, both have their advantageous genres. Why you refuse to see that action RPGs are better on PC is beyond me.

AJey:

Preference has nothing to do with it. You can prefer an inferior system and be happy with it. I am talking about objective advantages. So you agree RTS are better on PC. What about FPS? Shooting is more accurate with a mouse how ever you look at it. What about action RPGs? A mouse gives you much better precision. Racing can be better with controller, and platformers, and point-and-click adventures, and simulators etc. Just like I said, both have their advantageous genres. Why you refuse to see that action RPGs are better on PC is beyond me.

What objective advantage would that be? If you're fighting against the AI, there's not much of an advantage because of your control scheme. If you're playing against others, I'm unaware of a game that allows different control methods, so again no advantage. I don't see them as superior because I've had no problems in games with either control methods. I'm not a snob who demands to be accomodated and can adapt to what's given to me. So again, why with no coaxing did you have to come in here and piss all over everything in the name of superiority?

Lunar Templar:

bad choice of words ....

Objectively better, isn't factually better.

Actually...it is. I think you're thinking of subjectively better. Which would be an opinion.

Objectively better would imply something is perceived as "superior" based on it's merits. Or rather, "the facts".

~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~

But anyway, while I can see part of what this Ajey guy is getting at, he's being rude about it. And, going about it in all the wrong ways.

Torchlight 2, if ported to consoles, wouldn't be "dumbed down". Saying so is ludicrous.

However, there would need to be drastic alterations to both core gameplay mechanics as well as the UI and input systems. We might even see some features removed in the interest of better control with a controller.

Even so, this guys claim that Torchlight 2 would somehow be "ruined" by coming to consoles is just ridiculous. If anything, it could equate to a boon for the PC version. In so far as the extra cash flow from a console release could help Runic continue crafting new updates and content for all versions.

Mr.K.:
Wait didn't they say this is going to consoles at some point... then again they might have missed the window with that one, game was cheap from the start so at this point they would probably get very little back for their effort.

No, they've always said there'd be no console release for Torchlight II. Apparently Torchlight on Xbox was a massive pain in the ass for them and they'd rather not go through it again with this one. Can't say that I blame them myself. A lot of people are still pissed off there's not Mac version yet. For a while you couldn't go two pages on their forums without someone creating a thread complaining about it.

Lunar Templar:

AJey:

Lunar Templar:

>.> Tourchlight 2 isn't that 'complex' a game. donno what your on about with this 'dumbing down' none sense.

Then just try squeezing keyboard + mouse controls into a controller. Even if you manage, keyboard + mouse will beat it any day of the week. Then go for the UI and replace the comfort of a mouse driven UI into arrow driven UI. The skills and combat and the convenience of hotkeys. And the list is long. Much would have to be changed and most of it in a bad way.

:3

your funny

the 'convenience' (snickers) of hot keys is the easiest if you actually knew anything about the button layout on a the modern controller.

using a 360 pad as an example.

shoulder/triggers = 1-4
d-pad = 5-8
YXBA = mouse slots and 9-0
thumb sticks = L for movement R for aiming and those skills that require you to place them to work
thumb stick buttons = mana/HP pots
start/back = the menus on the left an right of the screen.

The UI being altered would be the 'hardest part' but at the end of the day I'm very certain they could come up with something just as good for a console release, assuming they had any intent to.

The only REAL detriment to a console release of TL2 over its PC counter part is the loss of mods. But since this IS TL2 and not a TES game (a series which really NEEDS its mods to be even passable) the vanilla TL2 is a great game on its own and doesn't really need the mods.

Took me 5 minutes, tops, think that up. Not that you'll listen. In fact I fully expect you to blow it off and the continue to rant against the 'dumbing down' of games like that's what porting a PC game to a console is, or continue console bashing, or both.

Guess what? you get to be wrong, so very, very wrong. Altering a control scheme to work on another platform is not dumbing the game down. The dumbing down of games is all the hand holding in the modern FPS, or the across the board drop in difficulty of the average game (like how DMC:Devil May Cry is considerably easier then DMC 4) that is what dumbing a game down is.

Reply or don't, I couldn't care less, since I pretty much know what your gonna say anyway.

Coming from a PC-gaming lunatic, and from a guy who will very quickly vomit words about how much better PC control is over control pads of any kind:

Torchlight 2 on consoles? Considering the team is smart enough to outdo Diablo (in my eyes anyway), smart enough to not put any bullshit DRM (nothing invasive anyways), and smart enough to allow the community to use modding tools openly and freely? Yea, these guys would do PERFECTLY fine on consoles, this includes controls.

In fact, the button assignments you suggested aren't bad at all. Easily handled, simple to remember (for some, anyway, I'd fuck it up personally).

AJey really is just coming off as a fanboy at this point, refusing to listen to your well-put words. And this is coming from...well, a near-fanboy.

Consider your previous points on the button assignments; they are literally no different than 1-0 on a keyboard. No different at ALL except more compact. Z and X for pots? Putting them to thumbsticks is a very intelligent move: both are readily accessible in case the player begins to lack Mana OR Health. Left to move? Everyone would feel right at home. Right to aim/swing? Actually fits quite well to anyone who has played a top-down shooter on the consoles, such as Geometry Wars or some such. There'd be a distinct lack of confusion.

What about new players? A little practice and even they'd slip right into the controls.

Redesigning the UI would be quite easy for these guys as well. They bloody well made Torchlight 2, after all. I'd miss the mods like mad (I use a few, Synergies included), but dammit, it'd be just as fun on a console.

It's not rocket science: You're very very correct.

It's a real shame its not coming to xbox. I have TL1 on the xbox and its awesome. The controls work brilliantly too.

Its funny how the pc fan boys scream and stomp about how their games would never work well on console because mouse + keyboard is better, while us dirty console heavens just look at them like they're retarded and get back to happily playing the game they said could not be played with a controller :p

AJey:

Hotkey based RPGs or mouse-driven RPG's are better on PC. If you think it is not objectively true, you should compare the two together.

You gonna actually back any of this shit you been slingen up at some point? or you gonna just keep rocken 'it'll be worse cause, lol consoles' cause that's not an argument.

cause if that's all your gonna keep doing, do feel free to stop replying anytime now.

Vergial:

Coming from a PC-gaming lunatic, and from a guy who will very quickly vomit words about how much better PC control is over control pads of any kind:

Torchlight 2 on consoles? Considering the team is smart enough to outdo Diablo (in my eyes anyway), smart enough to not put any bullshit DRM (nothing invasive anyways), and smart enough to allow the community to use modding tools openly and freely? Yea, these guys would do PERFECTLY fine on consoles, this includes controls.

In fact, the button assignments you suggested aren't bad at all. Easily handled, simple to remember (for some, anyway, I'd fuck it up personally).

AJey really is just coming off as a fanboy at this point, refusing to listen to your well-put words. And this is coming from...well, a near-fanboy.

Consider your previous points on the button assignments; they are literally no different than 1-0 on a keyboard. No different at ALL except more compact. Z and X for pots? Putting them to thumbsticks is a very intelligent move: both are readily accessible in case the player begins to lack Mana OR Health. Left to move? Everyone would feel right at home. Right to aim/swing? Actually fits quite well to anyone who has played a top-down shooter on the consoles, such as Geometry Wars or some such. There'd be a distinct lack of confusion.

What about new players? A little practice and even they'd slip right into the controls.

Redesigning the UI would be quite easy for these guys as well. They bloody well made Torchlight 2, after all. I'd miss the mods like mad (I use a few, Synergies included), but dammit, it'd be just as fun on a console.

It's not rocket science: You're very very correct.

If he is a PC fanboy he's done a rather poor job defending his position, not just the not listening part but not back up anything he's said at all. Opinion is fine, but it's hardly fact.

Thank your the glowing praise of my control setup. There is a lack of confusion with it to, I use a set like this for some of the action MMOs I play, also, tell me what you think if this for a fix to my UI issue from earlier.

A WiiU controller, the HP/Mana pots would likely need to be moved to the touch screen due the fact I don't think the thumb stick on the WiiU controller have buttons under them, but the touch screen it self could easily handle all the menus and maybe the aiming and skills that need placement as an alternate control scheme.

Vigormortis:

But anyway, while I can see part of what this Ajey guy is getting at, he's being rude about it. And, going about it in all the wrong ways.

Torchlight 2, if ported to consoles, wouldn't be "dumbed down". Saying so is ludicrous.

However, there would need to be drastic alterations to both core gameplay mechanics as well as the UI and input systems. We might even see some features removed in the interest of better control with a controller.

Even so, this guys claim that Torchlight 2 would somehow be "ruined" by coming to consoles is just ridiculous. If anything, it could equate to a boon for the PC version. In so far as the extra cash flow from a console release could help Runic continue crafting new updates and content for all versions.

See above for my UI fix, could work to cut the work load on converting the game and keep it closer to the PC version.

and I kinda feel like that last bit is what I've been trying to say the whole time >.>

Lunar Templar:

If he is a PC fanboy he's done a rather poor job defending his position, not just the not listening part but not back up anything he's said at all. Opinion is fine, but it's hardly fact.

Thank your the glowing praise of my control setup. There is a lack of confusion with it to, I use a set like this for some of the action MMOs I play, also, tell me what you think if this for a fix to my UI issue from earlier.

A WiiU controller, the HP/Mana pots would likely need to be moved to the touch screen due the fact I don't think the thumb stick on the WiiU controller have buttons under them, but the touch screen it self could easily handle all the menus and maybe the aiming and skills that need placement as an alternate control scheme.

The fix itself isn't a bad idea at all, really. At least, speaking of a WiiU port, and I think it'd do VERY nicely for that console in particular. PS3 and XB360 (or either next-gen console) would likely need a bit more thought. Still fun to think about.

Also as a fun thought: when I'm playing Torchlight 2 on PC, sometimes I have a need to run like a pansy and drink some health pots. Well, sometimes the "click border" on various enemies is so huge that instead of running from the mob, my character decides to dive INTO it and thwack someone a couple times.

Taking movement from a click location and giving to a thumbstick would actually IMPROVE that issue. It's an issue that doesn't bug me much (it hasn't killed me, but it HAS made me panic as I press Z into my desk), but I'm sure it'd be frustrating to newer players.

So speaking from a FACTUAL standpoint (as well as a little backup from opinion), a control pad would actually work better for TL2. Instead of a 'dumbing down', it would actually BENEFIT from a thumbstick movement scheme.

And I feel this needs reiteration while I'm present at the boards (which is rare for me as it is): I cannot possibly fathom how it'd be a dumbing down when controllers these days have the SAME NUMBER OF HOTKEYS as Torchlight 2 needs and uses for a keyboard. There are no less inputs, there are no restrictive controls, there is no downside.

EDIT: HOW DID I MISS THIS OHGOD. I figure this one would be hilarious to comment on.

"Bethesda's half assed programing "skills""

I HALF-agree on that front. Remember, their world is absolutely frikkin' massive, with thousands of NPCs and various other diddlies you can play with. In terms of coding, a lot of what they did is actually very good. The problems come into play when an NPCs code tries to play with code it...well, shouldn't be playing with.

Can they code? Of course they can, and they do it just fine. Problem is, 'just fine' isn't good enough for the scope of their games, and we end up with Sabre Cats spiralling into the sunset as a plethora of players look on in absolute horror.

Let's face it though, people buy Bethesda games FOR those glitches. Or, at least, I do. Cuz Jesus Christ Almighty do I get a laugh when my quest-specific NPC decides it's a nice day to go swimming INTO THE ROAD, never to be seen again.

Kheapathic:

AJey:

Preference has nothing to do with it. You can prefer an inferior system and be happy with it. I am talking about objective advantages. So you agree RTS are better on PC. What about FPS? Shooting is more accurate with a mouse how ever you look at it. What about action RPGs? A mouse gives you much better precision. Racing can be better with controller, and platformers, and point-and-click adventures, and simulators etc. Just like I said, both have their advantageous genres. Why you refuse to see that action RPGs are better on PC is beyond me.

What objective advantage would that be? If you're fighting against the AI, there's not much of an advantage because of your control scheme. If you're playing against others, I'm unaware of a game that allows different control methods, so again no advantage. I don't see them as superior because I've had no problems in games with either control methods. I'm not a snob who demands to be accomodated and can adapt to what's given to me. So again, why with no coaxing did you have to come in here and piss all over everything in the name of superiority?

So now you gonna put words in my mouth? Who asked to be accommodated exactly? I dont remember myself doing that.

The fact that you have to ask what advantages mouse offers says a lot to me. Your little conjecture about AI or other players is irrelevant. Mouse is better for aiming. Period. End of story. If you cant understand such simple fact, you have no business schooling others.

Lunar Templar:

AJey:

Hotkey based RPGs or mouse-driven RPG's are better on PC. If you think it is not objectively true, you should compare the two together.

You gonna actually back any of this shit you been slingen up at some point? or you gonna just keep rocken 'it'll be worse cause, lol consoles' cause that's not an argument.

cause if that's all your gonna keep doing, do feel free to stop replying anytime now.

Lunar Templar:

AJey:

Hotkey based RPGs or mouse-driven RPG's are better on PC. If you think it is not objectively true, you should compare the two together.

You gonna actually back any of this shit you been slingen up at some point? or you gonna just keep rocken 'it'll be worse cause, lol consoles' cause that's not an argument.

cause if that's all your gonna keep doing, do feel free to stop replying anytime now.

Vergial:

Coming from a PC-gaming lunatic, and from a guy who will very quickly vomit words about how much better PC control is over control pads of any kind:

Torchlight 2 on consoles? Considering the team is smart enough to outdo Diablo (in my eyes anyway), smart enough to not put any bullshit DRM (nothing invasive anyways), and smart enough to allow the community to use modding tools openly and freely? Yea, these guys would do PERFECTLY fine on consoles, this includes controls.

In fact, the button assignments you suggested aren't bad at all. Easily handled, simple to remember (for some, anyway, I'd fuck it up personally).

AJey really is just coming off as a fanboy at this point, refusing to listen to your well-put words. And this is coming from...well, a near-fanboy.

Consider your previous points on the button assignments; they are literally no different than 1-0 on a keyboard. No different at ALL except more compact. Z and X for pots? Putting them to thumbsticks is a very intelligent move: both are readily accessible in case the player begins to lack Mana OR Health. Left to move? Everyone would feel right at home. Right to aim/swing? Actually fits quite well to anyone who has played a top-down shooter on the consoles, such as Geometry Wars or some such. There'd be a distinct lack of confusion.

What about new players? A little practice and even they'd slip right into the controls.

Redesigning the UI would be quite easy for these guys as well. They bloody well made Torchlight 2, after all. I'd miss the mods like mad (I use a few, Synergies included), but dammit, it'd be just as fun on a console.

It's not rocket science: You're very very correct.

If he is a PC fanboy he's done a rather poor job defending his position, not just the not listening part but not back up anything he's said at all. Opinion is fine, but it's hardly fact.

Thank your the glowing praise of my control setup. There is a lack of confusion with it to, I use a set like this for some of the action MMOs I play, also, tell me what you think if this for a fix to my UI issue from earlier.

A WiiU controller, the HP/Mana pots would likely need to be moved to the touch screen due the fact I don't think the thumb stick on the WiiU controller have buttons under them, but the touch screen it self could easily handle all the menus and maybe the aiming and skills that need placement as an alternate control scheme.

[quote="Vigormortis" post="7.827618.20127287"]

But anyway, while I can see part of what this Ajey guy is getting at, he's being rude about it. And, going about it in all the wrong ways.

Torchlight 2, if ported to consoles, wouldn't be "dumbed down". Saying so is ludicrous.

However, there would need to be drastic alterations to both core gameplay mechanics as well as the UI and input systems. We might even see some features removed in the interest of better control with a controller.

Even so, this guys claim that Torchlight 2 would somehow be "ruined" by coming to consoles is just ridiculous. If anything, it could equate to a boon for the PC version. In so far as the extra cash flow from a console release could help Runic continue crafting new updates and content for all versions.

See above for my UI fix, could work to cut the work load on converting the game and keep it closer to the PC version.

and I kinda feel like that last bit is what I've been trying to say the whole time >.>

I dont have to back it up. It already has been done. Just compare PC and console versions of Diablo 3.

Vergial:

Lunar Templar:

AJey:

Then just try squeezing keyboard + mouse controls into a controller. Even if you manage, keyboard + mouse will beat it any day of the week. Then go for the UI and replace the comfort of a mouse driven UI into arrow driven UI. The skills and combat and the convenience of hotkeys. And the list is long. Much would have to be changed and most of it in a bad way.

:3

your funny

the 'convenience' (snickers) of hot keys is the easiest if you actually knew anything about the button layout on a the modern controller.

using a 360 pad as an example.

shoulder/triggers = 1-4
d-pad = 5-8
YXBA = mouse slots and 9-0
thumb sticks = L for movement R for aiming and those skills that require you to place them to work
thumb stick buttons = mana/HP pots
start/back = the menus on the left an right of the screen.

The UI being altered would be the 'hardest part' but at the end of the day I'm very certain they could come up with something just as good for a console release, assuming they had any intent to.

The only REAL detriment to a console release of TL2 over its PC counter part is the loss of mods. But since this IS TL2 and not a TES game (a series which really NEEDS its mods to be even passable) the vanilla TL2 is a great game on its own and doesn't really need the mods.

Took me 5 minutes, tops, think that up. Not that you'll listen. In fact I fully expect you to blow it off and the continue to rant against the 'dumbing down' of games like that's what porting a PC game to a console is, or continue console bashing, or both.

Guess what? you get to be wrong, so very, very wrong. Altering a control scheme to work on another platform is not dumbing the game down. The dumbing down of games is all the hand holding in the modern FPS, or the across the board drop in difficulty of the average game (like how DMC:Devil May Cry is considerably easier then DMC 4) that is what dumbing a game down is.

Reply or don't, I couldn't care less, since I pretty much know what your gonna say anyway.

Coming from a PC-gaming lunatic, and from a guy who will very quickly vomit words about how much better PC control is over control pads of any kind:

Torchlight 2 on consoles? Considering the team is smart enough to outdo Diablo (in my eyes anyway), smart enough to not put any bullshit DRM (nothing invasive anyways), and smart enough to allow the community to use modding tools openly and freely? Yea, these guys would do PERFECTLY fine on consoles, this includes controls.

In fact, the button assignments you suggested aren't bad at all. Easily handled, simple to remember (for some, anyway, I'd fuck it up personally).

AJey really is just coming off as a fanboy at this point, refusing to listen to your well-put words. And this is coming from...well, a near-fanboy.

Consider your previous points on the button assignments; they are literally no different than 1-0 on a keyboard. No different at ALL except more compact. Z and X for pots? Putting them to thumbsticks is a very intelligent move: both are readily accessible in case the player begins to lack Mana OR Health. Left to move? Everyone would feel right at home. Right to aim/swing? Actually fits quite well to anyone who has played a top-down shooter on the consoles, such as Geometry Wars or some such. There'd be a distinct lack of confusion.

What about new players? A little practice and even they'd slip right into the controls.

Redesigning the UI would be quite easy for these guys as well. They bloody well made Torchlight 2, after all. I'd miss the mods like mad (I use a few, Synergies included), but dammit, it'd be just as fun on a console.

It's not rocket science: You're very very correct.

Why is it so hard for people to contextualize?! I never said anything about console version of Torchlight being impossible or hard to make. Only that mechanically it would be inferior to mouse driven controls. And I'm a fanboy because of that? I didnt know objectively verifiable facts make people fanboys.

*stops playing Final Fantasy 14: A Realm Reborn*

Hey guys! How's everyth-

*looks at thread posts*

....huh. Well, this is a thing now. Didn't know that people cared so much about controls. Wonder if anyone will do a YouTube video with a side-by-side comparison of FF14: ARR with PS3 and PC control mechanics sometime soon. Just for gits and shiggles.

*goes back to playing Final Fantasy 14: A Realm Reborn*

OT: So they don't want to make Torchlight 2 for consoles. That's their decision. Hope they go far because the developers are an awesome team capable of making awesome games!

AJey:

I dont have to back it up. It already has been done. Just compare PC and console versions of Diablo 3.

*headdesk*

That's is your go to? really?

Have you PLAYED D3 on the PC? Cause the UI looked designed with console in mind long before they announced the console port.

Then there's the fact D3 only has 6 skill slots, total, that's 4 on keyboard, 2 on mouse. Hell, the PS3/Xbox controllers have more buttons then needed.

Not to mention the console version lacks the mandatory online for that RMAH (So I've been lead to believe. There is no fucking way in hell I will sink more money into that shit stain of a game to find out.)

Are we about done? Much fun as it's be to keep blowing holes in your flimsy arguments, I do have better things to do with my time then keep replying to some one that doesn't know they've been beaten awhile ago.

AJey:

Why is it so hard for people to contextualize?! I never said anything about console version of Torchlight being impossible or hard to make. Only that mechanically it would be inferior to mouse driven controls. And I'm a fanboy because of that? I didnt know objectively verifiable facts make people fanboys.

Yes, yes you are. The game cannot be inferior if there are no real changes. If the same data is displayed, skills work the same, and everything is simply adapted to a different control scheme then no, the game ccannot be inferior. You still have yet to back up any of your outlandish claims.

Fun fact: different != inferior.

Go crawl back into your fanboy hole unless you can actually back something up, just as I have.

Lunar Templar:

AJey:

I dont have to back it up. It already has been done. Just compare PC and console versions of Diablo 3.

*headdesk*

That's is your go to? really?

Have you PLAYED D3 on the PC? Cause the UI looked designed with console in mind long before they announced the console port.

Then there's the fact D3 only has 6 skill slots, total, that's 4 on keyboard, 2 on mouse. Hell, the PS3/Xbox controllers have more buttons then needed.

Not to mention the console version lacks the mandatory online for that RMAH (So I've been lead to believe. There is no fucking way in hell I will sink more money into that shit stain of a game to find out.)

Are we about done? Much fun as it's be to keep blowing holes in your flimsy arguments, I do have better things to do with my time then keep replying to some one that doesn't know they've been beaten awhile ago.

If he wants to use an already-broken game (that, by the way, was broken since launch) as an example, let him. It proves no point of his and is funny to laugh at.

I made the mistake of buying that 'game'. The story is pathetic, gameplay is simple-minded and witless (I'm mostly referring to distribution of stat points or skill points; i.e., there ARE no points to spread), choices are just gone. I absolutely ADORED Diablo 1 and 2. I didn't think they could fuck number 3 up so badly.

Actually, let's use this for fun. Diablo 3 on PC? It is inferior to Diablo 2. Why? They removed a VAST amount of what made Diablo a Diablo game: killing monsters, gathering loot, then spending stat/skill points to make a character all your own to bring to battle with the loot you find.

Diablo 1, I made a battlemage. He wore heavy armor, wielded a greatsword, and cast spells. I was ABLE to do this in Diablo 1. Diablo 2 lets you do LARGELY the same stuff, with minor variations. You were still perfectly able to customize and perfect a class and build to suit your playstyle.

Diablo 3 took away any customization aside from "lol here's a handful of skills, and you don't pick your stats we'll do it for you". Sure, they kept loot, but who the hell cares if you can't play the way YOU want? Further, they nuked the other classes in favor of a very limited selection of cliched fighting styles. This doesn't seem like a gripe at first (consider Diablo 1, again), but remember that they took CHOICE away. I tried so hard to run a battlemage in D3, I really did. but eventually I ran into some bosses that just one-shot you regardless of armor/health simply because the Wizard has almost no health to begin with.

In Diablo 1, since you could place stats where YOU wanted to, running a battlemage was completely doable and fun. The complement of spells helped it along very nicely as well. D1 may have had only 3 classes like D3, but because of the variety of OPTIONS and CHOICES you had, you could build anything.

Diablo 3, despite being on PC as well, is VASTLY inferior to its predecessors because of a distinct lack of options, features, and above all else, choices. However, since they already broke the game, it CANNOT be inferior on consoles; the options in the PC version will remain, as will everything else.

Anyone claiming it is inferior because of a control scheme is only fooling themselves.

PEE ESS: Lunar, it's fun talking with ya. Just sayin'.

Lunar Templar:

AJey:

I dont have to back it up. It already has been done. Just compare PC and console versions of Diablo 3.

*headdesk*

That's is your go to? really?

Have you PLAYED D3 on the PC? Cause the UI looked designed with console in mind long before they announced the console port.

Then there's the fact D3 only has 6 skill slots, total, that's 4 on keyboard, 2 on mouse. Hell, the PS3/Xbox controllers have more buttons then needed.

Not to mention the console version lacks the mandatory online for that RMAH (So I've been lead to believe. There is no fucking way in hell I will sink more money into that shit stain of a game to find out.)

Are we about done? Much fun as it's be to keep blowing holes in your flimsy arguments, I do have better things to do with my time then keep replying to some one that doesn't know they've been beaten awhile ago.

I'll take blame for this one. Should have been more specific. You're right, Diablo might have been designed with a console in mind. That's where UI issues come in, 6 slots etc. But why didnt you mention the most important difference? Controls. Regardless of how you look at it, mouse driven UI is always better, variety of kotkeys that keyboard provides is always better, and of course the accuracy that mouse provides is always better. See, being designed for a console made Diablo worse, as you have demonstrated. So thanks for proving my point, Mr. High-on-the-horse. Next time you go blowing holes, dont aim down or you will shoot yourself in the foot.

AJey:

Lunar Templar:

AJey:

I dont have to back it up. It already has been done. Just compare PC and console versions of Diablo 3.

*headdesk*

That's is your go to? really?

Have you PLAYED D3 on the PC? Cause the UI looked designed with console in mind long before they announced the console port.

Then there's the fact D3 only has 6 skill slots, total, that's 4 on keyboard, 2 on mouse. Hell, the PS3/Xbox controllers have more buttons then needed.

Not to mention the console version lacks the mandatory online for that RMAH (So I've been lead to believe. There is no fucking way in hell I will sink more money into that shit stain of a game to find out.)

Are we about done? Much fun as it's be to keep blowing holes in your flimsy arguments, I do have better things to do with my time then keep replying to some one that doesn't know they've been beaten awhile ago.

I'll take blame for this one. Should have been more specific. You're right, Diablo might have been designed with a console in mind. That's where UI issues come in, 6 slots etc. But why didnt you mention the most important difference? Controls. Regardless of how you look at it, mouse driven UI is always better, variety of kotkeys that keyboard provides is always better, and of course the accuracy that mouse provides is always better. See, being designed for a console made Diablo worse, as you have demonstrated. So thanks for proving my point, Mr. High-on-the-horse. Next time you go blowing holes, dont aim down or you will shoot yourself in the foot.

and you honestly wonder why people keep calling you a PC fanboy despite saying other wise ..... if it walks like a duck and talks like a duck an all that.

Designed with consoles in mind IS NOT DIABLO 3'S PROBLEM.

It's the fact it's been dumbed down, ACTUALLY dumbed down(you know, that thing you mistakenly think the 'control issue' you seem to enjoy being constantly wrong about is). All form of choice that was in the other Diablo games having been ripped out, in favor of ... the mess we got. D3's problems are long, the control scheme chosen, not one of them.

Which falls back to your earlier Bethesda example, bad devs fucking up a game from the ground floor up, only difference between D3 and a TES game is D3 lacks the benefits of modders to correct the mistakes brought on by the devs incompetence.

Next time you think you've made a point, make sure it's not hinged on the other guy not being more familiar with the game then you.

Vergial:

If he wants to use an already-broken game (that, by the way, was broken since launch) as an example, let him. It proves no point of his and is funny to laugh at.

I made the mistake of buying that 'game'. The story is pathetic, gameplay is simple-minded and witless (I'm mostly referring to distribution of stat points or skill points; i.e., there ARE no points to spread), choices are just gone. I absolutely ADORED Diablo 1 and 2. I didn't think they could fuck number 3 up so badly.

Actually, let's use this for fun. Diablo 3 on PC? It is inferior to Diablo 2. Why? They removed a VAST amount of what made Diablo a Diablo game: killing monsters, gathering loot, then spending stat/skill points to make a character all your own to bring to battle with the loot you find.

Diablo 1, I made a battlemage. He wore heavy armor, wielded a greatsword, and cast spells. I was ABLE to do this in Diablo 1. Diablo 2 lets you do LARGELY the same stuff, with minor variations. You were still perfectly able to customize and perfect a class and build to suit your playstyle.

Diablo 3 took away any customization aside from "lol here's a handful of skills, and you don't pick your stats we'll do it for you". Sure, they kept loot, but who the hell cares if you can't play the way YOU want? Further, they nuked the other classes in favor of a very limited selection of cliched fighting styles. This doesn't seem like a gripe at first (consider Diablo 1, again), but remember that they took CHOICE away. I tried so hard to run a battlemage in D3, I really did. but eventually I ran into some bosses that just one-shot you regardless of armor/health simply because the Wizard has almost no health to begin with.

In Diablo 1, since you could place stats where YOU wanted to, running a battlemage was completely doable and fun. The complement of spells helped it along very nicely as well. D1 may have had only 3 classes like D3, but because of the variety of OPTIONS and CHOICES you had, you could build anything.

Diablo 3, despite being on PC as well, is VASTLY inferior to its predecessors because of a distinct lack of options, features, and above all else, choices. However, since they already broke the game, it CANNOT be inferior on consoles; the options in the PC version will remain, as will everything else.

Anyone claiming it is inferior because of a control scheme is only fooling themselves.

PEE ESS: Lunar, it's fun talking with ya. Just sayin'.

Hi again :D

Yeah I bought into the D3 hype to, made it one trip through and, the cutscene's where nicely done >.> that's about the only thing I have nice to say about, shame about everything else though, TL2 is such a vastly superior game it boggles my mind as to why anyone still plays D3. Really wish I could have taken it back for a refund. :/

Fun talking with you to.

Vergial:

AJey:

Why is it so hard for people to contextualize?! I never said anything about console version of Torchlight being impossible or hard to make. Only that mechanically it would be inferior to mouse driven controls. And I'm a fanboy because of that? I didnt know objectively verifiable facts make people fanboys.

Yes, yes you are. The game cannot be inferior if there are no real changes. If the same data is displayed, skills work the same, and everything is simply adapted to a different control scheme then no, the game ccannot be inferior. You still have yet to back up any of your outlandish claims.

Fun fact: different != inferior.

Go crawl back into your fanboy hole unless you can actually back something up, just as I have.

Wow. Now after that statement I am truly shocked. Then tell me, if there is no difference in control scheme, then why cant console shooter players beat PC shooter players, or why cant PC fighters beat console fighters? You want to tell me there is no difference between mouse accuracy and controller accuracy? Ha ha ha! How about you crawl out of whatever hole you're stuck in and do some basic research.

Lunar Templar:

AJey:

Lunar Templar:

*headdesk*

That's is your go to? really?

Have you PLAYED D3 on the PC? Cause the UI looked designed with console in mind long before they announced the console port.

Then there's the fact D3 only has 6 skill slots, total, that's 4 on keyboard, 2 on mouse. Hell, the PS3/Xbox controllers have more buttons then needed.

Not to mention the console version lacks the mandatory online for that RMAH (So I've been lead to believe. There is no fucking way in hell I will sink more money into that shit stain of a game to find out.)

Are we about done? Much fun as it's be to keep blowing holes in your flimsy arguments, I do have better things to do with my time then keep replying to some one that doesn't know they've been beaten awhile ago.

I'll take blame for this one. Should have been more specific. You're right, Diablo might have been designed with a console in mind. That's where UI issues come in, 6 slots etc. But why didnt you mention the most important difference? Controls. Regardless of how you look at it, mouse driven UI is always better, variety of kotkeys that keyboard provides is always better, and of course the accuracy that mouse provides is always better. See, being designed for a console made Diablo worse, as you have demonstrated. So thanks for proving my point, Mr. High-on-the-horse. Next time you go blowing holes, dont aim down or you will shoot yourself in the foot.

and you honestly wonder why people keep calling you a PC fanboy despite saying other wise ..... if it walks like a duck and talks like a duck an all that.

Designed with consoles in mind IS NOT DIABLO 3'S PROBLEM.

It's the fact it's been dumbed down, ACTUALLY dumbed down(you know, that thing you mistakenly think the 'control issue' you seem to enjoy being constantly wrong about is). All form of choice that was in the other Diablo games having been ripped out, in favor of ... the mess we got. D3's problems are long, the control scheme chosen, not one of them.

Which falls back to your earlier Bethesda example, bad devs fucking up a game from the ground floor up, only difference between D3 and a TES game is D3 lacks the benefits of modders to correct the mistakes brought on by the devs incompetence.

Next time you think you've made a point, make sure it's not hinged on the other guy not being more familiar with the game then you.

let me make it simple for you, since context is not your strong suit. Is mouse accuracy and controller accuracy on par? Yes or no?

AJey:

Vergial:

AJey:

Why is it so hard for people to contextualize?! I never said anything about console version of Torchlight being impossible or hard to make. Only that mechanically it would be inferior to mouse driven controls. And I'm a fanboy because of that? I didnt know objectively verifiable facts make people fanboys.

Yes, yes you are. The game cannot be inferior if there are no real changes. If the same data is displayed, skills work the same, and everything is simply adapted to a different control scheme then no, the game ccannot be inferior. You still have yet to back up any of your outlandish claims.

Fun fact: different != inferior.

Go crawl back into your fanboy hole unless you can actually back something up, just as I have.

Wow. Now after that statement I am truly shocked. Then tell me, if there is no difference in control scheme, then why cant console shooter players beat PC shooter players, or why cant PC fighters beat console fighters? You want to tell me there is no difference between mouse accuracy and controller accuracy? Ha ha ha! How about you crawl out of whatever hole you're stuck in and do some basic research.

I'll feed the troll just once more, his excessive stupidity is mind-boggling at this point.

There is no difference in Action-RPG control scheme, the thumbsticks would provide the instant-feedback you'd expect for moving and attacking. Precision isn't a necessity in TL2, so long as you're murdering something, you're doing fine.

A thumbstick setup for FPS titles isn't the greatest, since you seem keen on bringing multiple genres into the mix (notice how the topic is largely about TL2 and porting TL2? You're so insecure in your own knowledge that you have to resort to bringing other genres into the discussion). Reason is that a flick of the wrist will GENERALLY be far more effective than slowly turning around at whatever rate analog can whip up.

That said, there are definitely console players that can turn/shoot/aim with the exact precision of a mouse/keyboard user. Rare as they are, they certainly exist. Practice makes perfect. The control scheme itself is inherently worse on a console-based FPS, but in the hands of the right player, it hardly matters.

As for Fighting games, you can't be that stupid to bring that up. Digital input or analog input, both respond in exactly the same way on the PC or otherwise. Console fighters have no advantage at all, so I know for a fact that you're pulling THAT one from your ass. As for the proof: Pressing a button on the keyboard will result in the exact same result as pressing a button on a control pad. In fact, for the sake of argument (and shutting you up, unlikely as that is), the buttons even have the same distance before they reach the control circuits, be it keyboard OR control pad.

And, hilariously, I've clobbered my own share of control-pad users with my good ol' keyboard. And I'm certain I've lost to many control pad users as well.

Back ON topic: TL2 would function precisely the same, regardless of platform. I've already proven this, you have yet to bring up a single valid point.

I'm honestly done feeding your stupidity. Everyone on this thread can see you're talkin' out your ass by now.

AJey:

Lunar Templar:

AJey:

I'll take blame for this one. Should have been more specific. You're right, Diablo might have been designed with a console in mind. That's where UI issues come in, 6 slots etc. But why didnt you mention the most important difference? Controls. Regardless of how you look at it, mouse driven UI is always better, variety of kotkeys that keyboard provides is always better, and of course the accuracy that mouse provides is always better. See, being designed for a console made Diablo worse, as you have demonstrated. So thanks for proving my point, Mr. High-on-the-horse. Next time you go blowing holes, dont aim down or you will shoot yourself in the foot.

and you honestly wonder why people keep calling you a PC fanboy despite saying other wise ..... if it walks like a duck and talks like a duck an all that.

Designed with consoles in mind IS NOT DIABLO 3'S PROBLEM.

It's the fact it's been dumbed down, ACTUALLY dumbed down(you know, that thing you mistakenly think the 'control issue' you seem to enjoy being constantly wrong about is). All form of choice that was in the other Diablo games having been ripped out, in favor of ... the mess we got. D3's problems are long, the control scheme chosen, not one of them.

Which falls back to your earlier Bethesda example, bad devs fucking up a game from the ground floor up, only difference between D3 and a TES game is D3 lacks the benefits of modders to correct the mistakes brought on by the devs incompetence.

Next time you think you've made a point, make sure it's not hinged on the other guy not being more familiar with the game then you.

let me make it simple for you, since context is not your strong suit. Is mouse accuracy and controller accuracy on par? Yes or no?

Would help if your examples didn't suck harder then Paris Hilton had to to get on TV.

But in the context of TL2. Doesn't really matter, less if your an Ember'fuck that guy and every one around him AoE death'Mage. It really doesn't, TL2 doesn't require great aim to slaughter hoards upon hoards of monsters, hit boxes are rather large on a lot of skills, a number of skills have homing, so yeah.

So yeah 'meh, doesn't matter half as much as your making our making it seem in the context of TL2', ya know, kind I been pretty much saying the whole time.

Vergial:

AJey:

Vergial:

Yes, yes you are. The game cannot be inferior if there are no real changes. If the same data is displayed, skills work the same, and everything is simply adapted to a different control scheme then no, the game ccannot be inferior. You still have yet to back up any of your outlandish claims.

Fun fact: different != inferior.

Go crawl back into your fanboy hole unless you can actually back something up, just as I have.

Wow. Now after that statement I am truly shocked. Then tell me, if there is no difference in control scheme, then why cant console shooter players beat PC shooter players, or why cant PC fighters beat console fighters? You want to tell me there is no difference between mouse accuracy and controller accuracy? Ha ha ha! How about you crawl out of whatever hole you're stuck in and do some basic research.

I'll feed the troll just once more, his excessive stupidity is mind-boggling at this point.

There is no difference in Action-RPG control scheme, the thumbsticks would provide the instant-feedback you'd expect for moving and attacking. Precision isn't a necessity in TL2, so long as you're murdering something, you're doing fine.

A thumbstick setup for FPS titles isn't the greatest, since you seem keen on bringing multiple genres into the mix (notice how the topic is largely about TL2 and porting TL2? You're so insecure in your own knowledge that you have to resort to bringing other genres into the discussion). Reason is that a flick of the wrist will GENERALLY be far more effective than slowly turning around at whatever rate analog can whip up.

That said, there are definitely console players that can turn/shoot/aim with the exact precision of a mouse/keyboard user. Rare as they are, they certainly exist. Practice makes perfect. The control scheme itself is inherently worse on a console-based FPS, but in the hands of the right player, it hardly matters.

As for Fighting games, you can't be that stupid to bring that up. Digital input or analog input, both respond in exactly the same way on the PC or otherwise. Console fighters have no advantage at all, so I know for a fact that you're pulling THAT one from your ass. As for the proof: Pressing a button on the keyboard will result in the exact same result as pressing a button on a control pad. In fact, for the sake of argument (and shutting you up, unlikely as that is), the buttons even have the same distance before they reach the control circuits, be it keyboard OR control pad.

And, hilariously, I've clobbered my own share of control-pad users with my good ol' keyboard. And I'm certain I've lost to many control pad users as well.

Back ON topic: TL2 would function precisely the same, regardless of platform. I've already proven this, you have yet to bring up a single valid point.

I'm honestly done feeding your stupidity. Everyone on this thread can see you're talkin' out your ass by now.

Do you call troll everyone that disagrees with you? Classy, mate, really classy!

RPG - if you really think that action RPGs play the same, it's you who is talking out of the ass. Diablo has proved it rather well. Granted, you can have good experiences on both control schemes, but I am talking about which one is better. Playing ranged characters requires precision, and if you think mouse and analog stick are on par when it comes to precision, play both versions of D3 (or at least watch them).

Shooters - Do you feel smarter, better when you insult someone with your keyboard heroism? Oh, my, how silly of me to bring up various genres of games when we are talking about differences between platforms. I must be so dumb, right. As for your excuses, ask the Shadowrun folks whether mouse or controller are better for shooters. They know! You are desperately trying to find FPS advantages for a controller yet then dare call me a fanboy. Good for you, double standards and all.

Fighters - Why do most professional players choose arcade sticks? Because so far they are the best for that genre. Not keyboard, not controller, but an arcade stick. Just like I said before, each platform has its advantageous genres, yet you are going to dispute it by injecting your personal opinions? Wow, I didnt know that objective truths are born from personal opinions. It's irrelevant how many fights you won on a keyboard or lost on a controller. What is relevant, however, is which control scheme is BEST for a certain genre. What you or I think is irrelevant.

So go ahead, call me more names and present even more conjectures. Maybe call me a troll again. You do that better than actual arguing.

Lunar Templar:

AJey:

Lunar Templar:

and you honestly wonder why people keep calling you a PC fanboy despite saying other wise ..... if it walks like a duck and talks like a duck an all that.

Designed with consoles in mind IS NOT DIABLO 3'S PROBLEM.

It's the fact it's been dumbed down, ACTUALLY dumbed down(you know, that thing you mistakenly think the 'control issue' you seem to enjoy being constantly wrong about is). All form of choice that was in the other Diablo games having been ripped out, in favor of ... the mess we got. D3's problems are long, the control scheme chosen, not one of them.

Which falls back to your earlier Bethesda example, bad devs fucking up a game from the ground floor up, only difference between D3 and a TES game is D3 lacks the benefits of modders to correct the mistakes brought on by the devs incompetence.

Next time you think you've made a point, make sure it's not hinged on the other guy not being more familiar with the game then you.

let me make it simple for you, since context is not your strong suit. Is mouse accuracy and controller accuracy on par? Yes or no?

Would help if your examples didn't suck harder then Paris Hilton had to to get on TV.

But in the context of TL2. Doesn't really matter, less if your an Ember'fuck that guy and every one around him AoE death'Mage. It really doesn't, TL2 doesn't require great aim to slaughter hoards upon hoards of monsters, hit boxes are rather large on a lot of skills, a number of skills have homing, so yeah.

So yeah 'meh, doesn't matter half as much as your making our making it seem in the context of TL2', ya know, kind I been pretty much saying the whole time.

Good to know that you are not interested in the conversation, only your assumed superiority. It takes talent to misconstrue and misinterpret simple things, but you did well. I hope the view from that high horse is good, because it's only in your head.

AJey:

Good to know that you are not interested in the conversation, only your assumed superiority. It takes talent to misconstrue and misinterpret simple things, but you did well. I hope the view from that high horse is good, because it's only in your head.

so, disagree with you = delusional? That what your saying?

Well I suppose it's to be expected from some one who couldn't be bothered to form an argument beyond 'because I said so'

Lunar Templar:

AJey:

Good to know that you are not interested in the conversation, only your assumed superiority. It takes talent to misconstrue and misinterpret simple things, but you did well. I hope the view from that high horse is good, because it's only in your head.

so, disagree with you = delusional? That what your saying?

Well I suppose it's to be expected from some one who couldn't be bothered to form an argument beyond 'because I said so'

Ha ha ha! This is getting amusing, truly. Your ability to come up with silly conjectures is astonishing. How are you doing that? "disagree with you = delusional?" - how did you come up with that? How? It's contextually bonkers. What the hell?!

So providing direct comparisons is now considered "because I said so"? Great logic, mate. Honestly, your mind works weirdly.

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