Mass Effect 3: Extended Cut ~ It's Official :O

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AverageJoe:
Shepard had better still die.

I'm serious.

If she doesn't die I'll be pissed off. One thing they did right about the ending was for Shepard to have to make an ultimate sacrifice. It was an emotional moment for me and I'd like for it to stay in there.

I'm going to quote somebody here: "Saying the hero has to ANYTHING in a game like mass effect is bullshit."
Sorry to spoil it for you but Shepard didn't even really die in the Easter egg to begin with, of course there was the other endings where Shepard does die, if you want to go by those.

Off Topic: Incidentally, if you like those kinds of scenes, then I'd highly recommend Nier, it has plenty of those, and they are handled really well.

Adam Jensen:

Xpheyel:

SajuukKhar:

Over time, specifically longer periods of time over 1million years, it WILL happen, to say otherwise shows a lack of understanding about how the universe works.

No, you're wrong. As the number of trials for a binary event approaches infinity, the limit of the probability of getting the same outcome every time approaches zero.

You'd need an infinite set of trials to be able to say that both outcomes are guaranteed to be in it.

Infinity is a lot more than a million. Or a billion. Or a trillion. It still might not happen at all before the heat death of universe. It isn't even remotely a good justification for dicking around the galaxy for millions of years, mind-raping and killing countless trillions of sapient beings on the off-chance that this will be the time they make a race of even worse killer machines than the Reapers.

Exactly.

The best explanation for the Reapers should have been either the most simple one - that they are afraid of organics ascending to become more powerful than them eventually, or because they need us for resources. Or they could have just left it a mystery since a mysterious enemy is the most terrifying one.

Personally I would have preferred Drews original dark energy concept as an explenation, it would have kinda given the reapers a bit more depth, though I would have been fine with murderous space Cthulhu race aswell.

MC1980:

Personally I would have preferred Drews original dark energy concept as an explenation, it would have kinda given the reapers a bit more depth, though I would have been fine with murderous space Cthulhu race aswell.

I wish I had a time machine and could go back in time slap the dumb out of Casey and force him to let the other writers make the Dark Energy ending.

Also I personally find Cthulhu monster to be the worst writing ever "you cant understand us because we are beyond you" isn't scary, its a obvious cop-out.

I'd go back in time and tell them not to sell out to EA. I blame EA for making them rush the game. Bioware can hide behind artistic integrity argument all they want. It's obvious the game was rushed. It shows. And it's not like they can flat out blame their bosses in public.

SajuukKhar:
Also I personally find Cthulhu monster to be the worst writing ever "you cant understand us because we are beyond you" isn't scary, its a obvious cop-out.

Knowing Reaper motivations isn't necessary for the story at all. And in revealing a mystery that big you risk making them appear weak and petty. You know they are a threat and just need to know how to kill them.

I'm really skeptical about the DLC. I would have wanted the dark energy ending. Considering that it actually fit the themes of the series.

You know what? I couldn't care less about the so-called "clarity" this extended cut will give us.

Fact of the matter is that while I didn't hate the ending, I was sure as hell disappointed in it. I really don't think that Bioware has enough industrial equipment to fill in the plot holes that ending created.

But you know what, that's okay. Because as a fan with an overactive imagination I'll sit through the ending without one complaint, while I think up a much better ending of my own and imagine it's taking place instead of what Bioware did.

Gotta love the imagination!

SajuukKhar:

Adam Jensen:

That's not a fact. You don't even know what probability is and how it works. Outcome doesn't depend on probability. Probability is an indicator. Events aren't governed by probability. It doesn't matter how probable something is it NEVER means that it WILL happen with certainty. Yet again you have to base everything on an assumption.

You can toss a coin in the air a million times and it can still turn on tails every single time, because the outcome doesn't depend on the probability. It depends on countless physical factors. Advanced machines should know that. Screw that, you should know this.

You can grab only blue marbles out of a bag of blue and red marbles for 1 trillion years and regardless of managing that feat for 1 trillion years it is FACT you WILL eventually pick a red one.

Same with your flipping a coin example. It DOES NOT matter how many times you manage to get tails you WILL inevitably over a period of time get heads at least once.

Over time, specifically longer periods of time over 1million years, it WILL happen, to say otherwise shows a lack of understanding about how the universe works.

You can't say With 100% certainty that you will get heads on the next flip, or any flip. There is still a 1/2 chance of a getting tails. The result of the first flip has no bearing on the result of the next flip. And why would Machines attack people in the first place? I don't see a lot of overlap in our base needs. Not that that seems to matter in this discussion.

Seanfall:

IamGamer41:
I recall seeing some vids on YouTube of deleted scenes the ME 3 ending where some of your squad gets killed by Harbinger during the run to the conduit.I remember thinking man that would of been awesome.I mean sad that your team died but hell this was the be all end all war.People should have died and not just the ones who joined you for 5 min on the Normandy(yeah I know you can get others killed or they kill themselves through choices)

If some of that is added back and the cut dialog it would be cool.Hell I still want to know where the boss fight with Harbinger was.I mean that thing talked shit to you the whole of the second game,why the hell couldn't I shut him up in the third.

actually them being killed is in the game if you have low EMS you see them bleeding in front of you after you get hit. Having High EMS shows random soldiers. Their still on the Normandy in the ending scene regardless.

right right but there is no cutscenes showing them getting hit by Harbinger.

Here's what Im' talking about

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r3PQT4c_r7Q

Had that been part of the Low ems then it would have been cool.Just like how a high ems could have you out right killing Harbinger.Man I want that thing dead lol.

SajuukKhar:

Also I personally find Cthulhu monster to be the worst writing ever "you cant understand us because we are beyond you" isn't scary, its a obvious cop-out.

Methinks one-dimensional space bastards is still better than a walking plothole generator.

SajuukKhar:

Adam Jensen:

That's not a fact. You don't even know what probability is and how it works. Outcome doesn't depend on probability. Probability is an indicator. Events aren't governed by probability. It doesn't matter how probable something is it NEVER means that it WILL happen with certainty. Yet again you have to base everything on an assumption.

You can toss a coin in the air a million times and it can still turn on tails every single time, because the outcome doesn't depend on the probability. It depends on countless physical factors. Advanced machines should know that. Screw that, you should know this.

You can grab only blue marbles out of a bag of blue and red marbles for 1 trillion years and regardless of managing that feat for 1 trillion years it is FACT you WILL eventually pick a red one.

Same with your flipping a coin example. It DOES NOT matter how many times you manage to get tails you WILL inevitably over a period of time get heads at least once.

Over time, specifically longer periods of time over 1million years, it WILL happen, to say otherwise shows a lack of understanding about how the universe works.

It will not happen eventually as a certainty; binomial probability points to that conclusion. As the number of occasions approaches infinity, the probability will approach 1, but even AT infinity, the probability of at least one head ever will still only be 0.9 recurring.

SajuukKhar:

Unsilenced:

SajuukKhar:

Except The catalyst is saying A synthetic race will eventually kill everything, he never stated it would be the geth, he never once impied the geth would go evil just that at some point in he future A synthetic race would.

So no, it really isnt the same fallacy.

Also it isnt an opinion its mathematically sound based on the long-term effects of probability.

Eventually chipmunks will ruin everything, man! It's what I've been trying to say! Probability favors that, given enough time, even the slightest chance will eventually pay off.

CHIPMUNK UPRISING WILL HAPPEN. MUST EXTERMINATE EVERYTHING!

...

Or we could just realize what an insane brand of logic that is and call it a day.

Nice hyperbole.

The possibility of a chimpmunk uprising is 0.

try harder next time kid.

You can't conclusively know that.

Point is, there are countless scenarios that are technically "possible" with incredibly slight odds that, if you buy the argument that time makes all statistically possible outcomes probable, will occur. This includes scenarios like a failure of the Reaper's plan that could have been as disastrous as any synthetic uprising. What if, in an attempt to save themselves, one cycle of organics developed an absolutely devastating superweapon that caused permanent damage to/destroyed much of the inhabitable space in the galaxy? What if they invented the Dr.Device and just started flinging it everywhere? What if they invented some sort of plague of nanobots or something like the Andromeda strain to fend off the Reapers?

You can say it's unlikely, but with infinite time, who's to say the organics wouldn't do something stupid in desperation that would fuck things up for everyone?

Organic creatures become more desperate and unpredictable when pressure is put on them. The reapers put the most pressure they possibly can: The uncompromising threat of extermination. They force the organics to take desperate measures.

Gonna be honest , this wasnt excactly what I was hoping them to do when they said when they said they would "address" the issue. I mean besides the whole plotholes thing there is also something inherintly wrong with the choices the catalyst offers you .

1) Destruction of all AI including the geth
-I think during the game we all or atleast some of us that some AI have atleast earned the right to live and why this option was tethered to all AI is beyond me.
-Since the catalyst himself stated that advanced civilisations WILL create synthetics why does the catalyst take it upon himself to offer such a short sighted solution when the creation and war with them is an eventuality.
-Its basically unneccesary, just a cheap method of the writer(s) trying to make your actions mean something when in truth they dont..

2) Synthesis
-Okay I may be wrong about this but does anybody remember in Mass effect 1 when you were talking with Vigil about the keepers and they said that because they were still (part) organic and that because of that the reapers could not predict how they would evolve ? Yeah I think the same principle applies. No matter how much people ((organic or synthetic) become the same there is always going to be war. e.g the synthetic war between the heretic and the other geth or the war between organics.
-This choice feels like a cheap way to impose order on evolution and I would have thought Shepard would be inherently be against this.
-Just plain unnecessary to the plot

3)Control
-Besides my little nit pick about this option being given as a no matter what you did in the game you still gonna die/vapourise/transend option, I honestly didn't mind it and I think with a few more variations this could have been a more acceptable ending.

While I have to respect bioware's decision on further explaining the ending (like Im some sort of whinny child who didn't understand the implications of each ending ) and put in epilogues, I really did feel like they should have payed more attention to the choices themselves as they are cheap, a poor way of trying to make your choices matter, emotionally void and in my opinion are just plain stupid.

Sorry for the long Post and any offence :P

Adam Jensen:

EA:
Through additional cinematic sequences and epilogue scenes, the Mass Effect 3: Extended Cut will give fans seeking further clarity to the ending of Mass Effect 3 deeper insights into how their personal journey concludes

It sounds like shit. We don't want answers. This isn't LOST. We want an ending that makes sense.

gets better on the main site, part of the text sounds like 'here, now SHUT UP', I'm not kidding

edit: http://blog.bioware.com/2012/04/05/mass-effect-3-extended-cut/ there ya go, see for your self

kman123:
I did not expect it to be free, so that's a pleasant surprise.

I'm also pleasantly surprised to see that Bioware aren't ditching the ending entirely, rather choosing to seek to explain how it could possibly make sense. That's also a plus sign.

There's hope in these guys.

Yeah, I personally think that (providing it is well done) this is the best possible outcome anyone could of expected.

Personally, all I wanted was some explanation to the ending and to see what happens afterwards, so i'm happy.

captcha - feeding frenzy.

My expectations at this point are pretty low. If they're giving it away (this is EA we're talking about...) then I doubt it'll be much more than a slap & tickle to offput fan rage.

And it won't work. And the company's already shaky image will get worse. And they'll lose business... and... well... bleh. Just watch.

Samantha Burt:

SajuukKhar:

Adam Jensen:

That's not a fact. You don't even know what probability is and how it works. Outcome doesn't depend on probability. Probability is an indicator. Events aren't governed by probability. It doesn't matter how probable something is it NEVER means that it WILL happen with certainty. Yet again you have to base everything on an assumption.

You can toss a coin in the air a million times and it can still turn on tails every single time, because the outcome doesn't depend on the probability. It depends on countless physical factors. Advanced machines should know that. Screw that, you should know this.

You can grab only blue marbles out of a bag of blue and red marbles for 1 trillion years and regardless of managing that feat for 1 trillion years it is FACT you WILL eventually pick a red one.

Same with your flipping a coin example. It DOES NOT matter how many times you manage to get tails you WILL inevitably over a period of time get heads at least once.

Over time, specifically longer periods of time over 1million years, it WILL happen, to say otherwise shows a lack of understanding about how the universe works.

It will not happen eventually as a certainty; binomial probability points to that conclusion. As the number of occasions approaches infinity, the probability will approach 1, but even AT infinity, the probability of at least one head ever will still only be 0.9 recurring.

I don't know much about Mass Effect, but I know that 0.9 recurring is 1, as do most people who've passed the third grade. So yes, over infinite tries an event IS certain to happen.

Though technically this doesn't matter since it's impossible to do anything infinite times. Then again that doesn't matter much either because you don't need to do flip a coin infinite times. Even flipping a coin even a hundred times without it landing on heads is so improbable that it isn't worth considering.

Warachia:
I'm going to quote somebody here: "Saying the hero has to ANYTHING in a game like mass effect is bullshit."
Sorry to spoil it for you but Shepard didn't even really die in the Easter egg to begin with, of course there was the other endings where Shepard does die, if you want to go by those.

Off Topic: Incidentally, if you like those kinds of scenes, then I'd highly recommend Nier, it has plenty of those, and they are handled really well.

I should have been clearer then that I want there to at least be some endings that Shepard dies so I can pursue that route. But then again, if the lead-up to those endings and the choices I could make to reach them don't fit with my Shepard's personality I might have to pick something else and skip that emotional turning point which would make the ending feel less true to what I personally wanted.

That's the problem with what you're saying, there's no such thing as a truly open ended game or choice because you're still stuck with a collection of variables the developers decided for you. So I don't think any one particular aspect could or should have multiple possibilities. Shepard dying in the end was still the one thing about the ending that was handled pretty well I thought and not only made some closure on that front but also drove home the fact that s/he had saved the galaxy because it was at the cost of his/her own life. It also fits with every Shepard because contrary to some fans misplaced understanding of their own Shepard's, there's no evil Shepard; the extremes are the goody-goody plays-by-the-rules Shepard (Paragon) and the badass greater-good win-at-all-costs Shepard (Renegade), and anything inbetween, all of which would sacrifice themselves to save the galaxy. So it fits perfectly with every character. People making up their own "lore" about their Shepard doesn't count because it isn't based on the games rules.

Also I knew about the easter egg of Shepard surviving, but I think its just that, an easter egg. AFAIK it only happens if you go down a specific route and get the most war points (forgot the proper term for them now) before the ending.

Also thanks for the tip but there's no PC version of Nier so I can't really play that one, and I don't think the gameplay would appeal to me anyway.

Fappy:
Check it out.

REDWOOD CITY, Calif.--(BUSINESS WIRE)--BioWare, a Label of Electronic Arts Inc. announced Mass Effect™ 3: Extended Cut, a downloadable content pack that will expand upon the events at the end of the critically acclaimed Action RPG. Through additional cinematic sequences and epilogue scenes, the Mass Effect 3: Extended Cut will give fans seeking further clarity to the ending of Mass Effect 3 deeper insights into how their personal journey concludes. Coming this summer, the Mass Effect 3: Extended Cut will be available for download on the Xbox 360® videogame and entertainment system, PlayStation®3 computer entertainment system and PC for no extra charge*.

"We are all incredibly proud of Mass Effect 3 and the work done by Casey Hudson and team," said Dr. Ray Muzyka, Co-Founder of BioWare and General Manager of EA's BioWare Label. "Since launch, we have had time to listen to the feedback from our most passionate fans and we are responding. With the Mass Effect 3: Extended Cut we think we have struck a good balance in delivering the answers players are looking for while maintaining the team's artistic vision for the end of this story arc in the Mass Effect universe."

Casey Hudson, Executive Producer of the Mass Effect series added, "We have reprioritized our post-launch development efforts to provide the fans who want more closure with even more context and clarity to the ending of the game, in a way that will feel more personalized for each player."

Well shit, what do you guys think?

In case you don't follow the link it explicitly states it will be free. EA giving out something for free... today's one of those rare sorts I presume.

It sounds like they're literally giving me exactly what I wanted; closure through a few more minutes of epilogue.

And for Free?

If it were anyone else but EA I'd commend them for good PR. But obviously this is only a prelude to a future backstabbing.

Since this sounds like it won't contain any gameplay elements (I could be wrong however), has there ever been DLC for a game that consisted entirely of additional cutscenes?

I hope they're merely expanding on the existing end. (The wording does seem to indicate that) I'll be kinda miffed if they dramatically change anything.

Pictured: A company not owning up to its massive failures and trying to dredge up some sympathy so people will continue buying their games.

Not that it's needed: see Modern Warfare 3.

GiantRaven:
Since this sounds like it won't contain any gameplay elements (I could be wrong however), has there ever been DLC for a game that consisted entirely of additional cutscenes?

Not that I know of.

though with the way Fallout 3 ran on some consoles many found Broken Steel to be nothing but still shots.

Christopher Callahan:

SajuukKhar:

Adam Jensen:

That's not a fact. You don't even know what probability is and how it works. Outcome doesn't depend on probability. Probability is an indicator. Events aren't governed by probability. It doesn't matter how probable something is it NEVER means that it WILL happen with certainty. Yet again you have to base everything on an assumption.

You can toss a coin in the air a million times and it can still turn on tails every single time, because the outcome doesn't depend on the probability. It depends on countless physical factors. Advanced machines should know that. Screw that, you should know this.

You can grab only blue marbles out of a bag of blue and red marbles for 1 trillion years and regardless of managing that feat for 1 trillion years it is FACT you WILL eventually pick a red one.

Same with your flipping a coin example. It DOES NOT matter how many times you manage to get tails you WILL inevitably over a period of time get heads at least once.

Over time, specifically longer periods of time over 1million years, it WILL happen, to say otherwise shows a lack of understanding about how the universe works.

You can't say With 100% certainty that you will get heads on the next flip, or any flip. There is still a 1/2 chance of a getting tails. The result of the first flip has no bearing on the result of the next flip. And why would Machines attack people in the first place? I don't see a lot of overlap in our base needs. Not that that seems to matter in this discussion.

Machines need raw material to grow and advance. Organic life forms are raw material, so why not harvest them?

Thankfully it sounds like they're going to just expand on the endings, not change the existing endings to please the idiot masses.

skywolfblue:
I hope they're merely expanding on the existing end. (The wording does seem to indicate that) I'll be kinda miffed if they dramatically change anything.

so in other words you like the taste of shit.

Capitano Segnaposto:

Yassen:
Kudos to them for making it free, but it's still a shame how this basically means this is the ending we're getting no matter what. As in, they're not going to scrap the whole thing or go with the indoctrination theory like I hoped.

/Deep sigh. Oh well, let's just see what they do.

They still might! I hope... Please? I mean how else can you explain that Shepard gets Indoctr-eyes at the Blue/Green Endings? How else do you explain Shepard waking up under rubble back on earth? How Else can you explain those oily shadows that permeate the Conduit/Dream Sequences? Or the child that nobody can see?

IT HAS TO BE TRUE GODDAMNIT!

I really really hope it is. And not just cause of you cute Dj-Pon3 Avatar.

Lordmarkus:
Perfect. I won't have time to do a new Mass Effect marathon before summer anyway.

Free you say? Is it still Ea we're talking about?

It seems so. Miracles do happen! :-D

SajuukKhar:

Joseph Alexander:

and you're indoctrinated.
but really, the point the star child makes is that its imposable for synthetics and organics to co-exist.
which as I've said Shepard's existence proves that wrong.
thus the whole idiotic machine logic "we are going to wipe out organics with sentient machines to prevent organics from creating machines that with wipe out all organics".

Except nothing about Shepard's existence proves them wrong, nothing in the slightest.

All the events of the entire ME series, and all the events of the lives of the characters in the series, combined provide literally 0 evidence that The Catalyst is wrong in any way.

What game where you playing? No nothing proves that the peace will last. But neither do we see anything that indicates that it won't. Only the god-fuck-child-asshole-whythehelldoyouexist thing says it won't. And we have 0 reason to belief that little fucktard.

SajuukKhar:

Adam Jensen:

But the biggest problem of all is the nonsense that is the reason for the cycle. Synthetics will always want to kill organics? HELLO? The Geth?!!! They never wanted to fight. They just wanted to download themselves in a huge server and become more intelligent. It seems like the only synthetics that want to wipe out organic life are the fuckin' Reapers. Even other synthetics don't like them.

And even if synthetics are gonna kill all organics eventually, what's it to you? Why the fuck do you care? Didn't Sovereign say that organic life is just an accident? Reaper motives cannot be benevolent. They are supposed to be logical. If they view organic life as a mistake then they shouldn't care if organic life exists at all. Which means they aren't concerned about organics for the sake of organics. They are concerned because they need organics for whatever their evil reason may be.

And again your missing the entire point of what The Catalyst said.

He said EVENTUALLY Synthetics will kill organics, he never said the Geth would be the ones to do it.

Also the geth being peaceful for the brief existence they had had shows nothing about how they would act in a post-upgrade universe were they have individuality.

Your entire argument works on the flawed principal of once nice = can never be evil for all time afterwards.

Tali mentions how their acting 'post upgrade'. Their being rather nice. And 'missing the entire point of what the catalyst said'. Oh we're missing the point of what a contrived moronic, and...stupid non-character said? How horrible. It's not what he said it's Shepard's meek acceptance of it. And your argument is founded on what he said is right. And yet we're told/see that in two cycles Organics where winning/making peace with synthetics. Javik talks about the Metacon war in his cycle. It sounds like Organics where winning then DA DA DA! Reapers come in and shove their tentacle faces in everyone's business. Our cycle. Geth were waiting behind the veil minding their business. then DA DA DA! Sovereign shows up, they think he's a god, and he sends them to war against the Organics. Doesn't Saren say that Sovereign didn't even care about the geth? Nother plooooot hole. Why would he not care about the reason he exists?

So we re-write or destroy the heretics. They go back and start to lose a war to the Quarians. Reapers show up upgrade them and they start to win. Again...the Geth only start to win CAUSE OF THE REAPERS! Now yes MAYBE they'd have started a war on their on later. But we don't know that cause the reapers mess it up. Every thing we're told/shown about this conflict only happens cause the Reapers show up when we're winning, or start the war themselves. It's a self fulling prophesy at least.

I want to see if they give an explanation for the last minute teaser of Shepard taking a breath.

Nimcha:

Kahunaburger:
Well, guys, art is dead. I just went to the National Portrait Gallery and all the paintings were gone. What hath fandom wrought?

As much as I'm bored with the whole 'games is art' debate, your point is equally stupid. Explaining a piece of work doesn't devalue it.

If this game is considered art, explaining the ending won't change that.

^This. Besides, how many extended/director's/gun2walkietalkie cut's have we seen for movies? And last I remember, they were still very much art.

OT: Sounds like just what the doctor ordered. If they pull this off well, they might actually be able to get some of their reputation back a bit. I just hope they don't underestimate what a task doing this right is.

Seanfall:

Tali mentions how their acting 'post upgrade'. Their being rather nice. And 'missing the entire point of what the catalyst said'. Oh we're missing the point of what a contrived moronic, and...stupid non-character said? How horrible. It's not what he said it's Shepard's meek acceptance of it. And your argument is founded on what he said is right. And yet we're told/see that in two cycles Organics where winning/making peace with synthetics. Javik talks about the Metacon war in his cycle. It sounds like Organics where winning then DA DA DA! Reapers come in and shove their tentacle faces in everyone's business. Our cycle. Geth were waiting behind the veil minding their business. then DA DA DA! Sovereign shows up, they think he's a god, and he sends them to war against the Organics. Doesn't Saren say that Sovereign didn't even care about the geth? Nother plooooot hole. Why would he not care about the reason he exists?

So we re-write or destroy the heretics. They go back and start to lose a war to the Quarians. Reapers show up upgrade them and they start to win. Again...the Geth only start to win CAUSE OF THE REAPERS! Now yes MAYBE they'd have started a war on their on later. But we don't know that cause the reapers mess it up. Every thing we're told/shown about this conflict only happens cause the Reapers show up when we're winning, or start the war themselves. It's a self fulling prophesy at least.

The Geth haven't had time for their individuality to sink in, when it does I fear for everything.

I find it kinda sad personally, the Geth were on the cusp of reaching a truly peaceful existence and then Legion had to try to fuck it up by giving them individuality. I chose to have their race killed off before then so I could live with the thought that they died better then us then instead of having to be degraded into an existence of egotism and hatred.
.
.
also sovereign didn't care about them because they were a means to an end, a means to get The Reapers in the galaxy so they could kill The Geth, along with other organics, and unlike organics who COULD be chosen for ascension the Geth wouldn't have been, it isn't a plothole

SajuukKhar:

Seanfall:

Tali mentions how their acting 'post upgrade'. Their being rather nice. And 'missing the entire point of what the catalyst said'. Oh we're missing the point of what a contrived moronic, and...stupid non-character said? How horrible. It's not what he said it's Shepard's meek acceptance of it. And your argument is founded on what he said is right. And yet we're told/see that in two cycles Organics where winning/making peace with synthetics. Javik talks about the Metacon war in his cycle. It sounds like Organics where winning then DA DA DA! Reapers come in and shove their tentacle faces in everyone's business. Our cycle. Geth were waiting behind the veil minding their business. then DA DA DA! Sovereign shows up, they think he's a god, and he sends them to war against the Organics. Doesn't Saren say that Sovereign didn't even care about the geth? Nother plooooot hole. Why would he not care about the reason he exists?

So we re-write or destroy the heretics. They go back and start to lose a war to the Quarians. Reapers show up upgrade them and they start to win. Again...the Geth only start to win CAUSE OF THE REAPERS! Now yes MAYBE they'd have started a war on their on later. But we don't know that cause the reapers mess it up. Every thing we're told/shown about this conflict only happens cause the Reapers show up when we're winning, or start the war themselves. It's a self fulling prophesy at least.

The Geth haven't had time for their individuality to sink in, when it does I fear for everything.

I find it kinda sad personally, the Geth were on the cusp of reaching a truly peaceful existence and then Legion had to try to fuck it up by giving them individuality. I chose to have their race killed off before then so I could live with the thought that they died better then us then instead of having to be degraded into an existence of egotism and hatred.
.
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also sovereign didn't care about them because they were a means to an end, a means to get The Reapers in the galaxy so they could kill The Geth, along with other organics, and unlike organics who COULD be chosen for ascension the Geth wouldn't have been, it isn't a plothole

Neither of us can know that. Every thing we think will happen after the end is conjuncture. Your wrong, I'm wrong. We're all wrong. We don't know cause we're not told. Yes yes it is a plothole. "I was created to keep Synthetics from wiping out organics, oh look Synthetics who have no interest in Organics...well that disproves me...I best make them a threat so I can exist."

Adam Jensen:

SajuukKhar:

Adam Jensen:

No it isn't. There's not enough data for that to be true. You have to create your own assumptions for that and then it wouldn't be math.

Except there is enough data, again you are ignoring the long term effects of probability

Be it this cycle, the next one, the one 1000 cycles for now or the one 10000000000000 cycles from now, the fact of the matter is eventually a race will build synthetics that will kill all organic life currently living in the galaxy.

That's not a fact. You don't even know what probability is and how it works. Outcome doesn't depend on probability. Events aren't governed by probability. It doesn't matter how probable something is it NEVER means that it WILL happen with certainty. Yet again you have to base everything on an assumption.

You can toss a coin in the air a million times and it CAN still turn on tails every single time, because the outcome doesn't depend on probability. It depends on countless physical factors. The Catalyst should know this. Screw that, you should know this. And because the outcome of an event doesn't depend on probability everything The Catalyst says is illogical.

Adam, adam. I agree with you...but look who your arguing with. You can't argue logic with someone who is removed from it.

WARNING: SPOILERS!

I'm glad it's coming out for free, but I still think it needs a final boss fight. The only real sense of finality I got from the game was watching my Shepard die. I realize the fight was essentially won, but it didn't feel like a worthy ending to an action or RPG series.

If you want to read my idea for a fitting ending, read it here (http://www.facebook.com/note.php?note_id=10150684947812229). I am open to any and all tasteful comments and criticisms.

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