"THATS SO GAY!" "THATS RETARDED!" Is that wrong to say or is it just crazy Political Correctness?

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Seekster:

See Spot Run:

Seekster:
Meh, I'll use it unless I know there are actually gay people around. Using it then would just be inappropriate. I saw commercials like the one you posted and I did a facepalm because in my experience telling people not to do something in an infomercial is one of the fastest and surest ways to get them to do just that, especially when its directed at kids.

"I'm ok with being offensive so long as I know I'll not get called out on it".

Political correctness for its own sake annoys me and I am not overly concerned with people being offended by what I say when I mean no offense.

If you mean no offense, then you shouldn't use words that are offensive.

See Spot Run:

Harlief:
On a slightly unrelated note: When was the last time you heard Solomon with mobility issues take offence at someone saying "That's lame."?

Today, actually.

On the OP: straight up inappropriate to say. Hurtful, degrading, homophobic, and ableist.

God forbid words have more than one meaning or connotation. Why so sensitive? 99% of the time saying "gay" or "retarded" isn't meant as an outright jab at homosexuals or mentally or physically handicapped people. If you can't understand that, then I would suggest occupying your time doing something than pondering the colloquial use of the English language because you're just going to become more frustrated at how many words differ from their original meaning in one way or another.

thinkb4youspeak is pretty lol. They won't be taken seriously ever by the vast majority of the audience that they're trying to influence ever.

See Spot Run:

Seekster:

See Spot Run:

"I'm ok with being offensive so long as I know I'll not get called out on it".

Political correctness for its own sake annoys me and I am not overly concerned with people being offended by what I say when I mean no offense.

If you mean no offense, then you shouldn't use words that are offensive.

Why not? If I mean no offense then why is it my fault if someone is offended who has no reason to be offended. Like I said I am not going to call something gay around someone I know or suspect is gay, thats just in poor taste (and honestly I don't even call things gay all that much).

twohundredpercent:
thinkb4youspeak is pretty lol. They won't be taken seriously ever by the fast majority of the audience that they're trying to influence ever.

I am not normally a grammar nazi but I saw this and couldnt resist, who exactly is the "fast majority"?

Ugh fine. Fixed.

And by the majority I mean the teenagers. For every 1 high school boy who's all "Using such phrases is below my superior intellect image ", there's 6 guys smacking his lunch tray out of his hands and calling him a retarded fag.

EDIT; And fast majority is apparently a voting algorithm.

Seekster:
Why not? If I mean no offense then why is it my fault if someone is offended who has no reason to be offended. Like I said I am not going to call something gay around someone I know or suspect is gay, thats just in poor taste (and honestly I don't even call things gay all that much).

Because if you actually don't intend to be offensive, there are all kinds of words you can use that don't run the risk of offending someone.

What you actually mean by saing "I don't mean to be offensive" is that you don't care if someone else is offended.

Gay people CONSTANTLY talk about how they find the use of "gay" and "fag" as pejorative statements offensive. If you CARE about offending people, and don't WANT to offend, you would respect that.

See Spot Run:

Seekster:

See Spot Run:

"I'm ok with being offensive so long as I know I'll not get called out on it".

Political correctness for its own sake annoys me and I am not overly concerned with people being offended by what I say when I mean no offense.

If you mean no offense, then you shouldn't use words that are offensive.

They're just words. I understand if you're younger, they'd probably effect you more. But hell, I really hate the whole "I'm offended" thing. It's as if I assaulted your character by using a single word. Oh but of course it's fine if YOU use it, because then it's NOT offensive, it's just slang. I stopped being offended at every little thing when I realized how stupid it is to nitpick everything everyone said.

See Spot Run:

Seekster:
Why not? If I mean no offense then why is it my fault if someone is offended who has no reason to be offended. Like I said I am not going to call something gay around someone I know or suspect is gay, thats just in poor taste (and honestly I don't even call things gay all that much).

Because if you actually don't intend to be ffensive, there are all kinds of words you can use that don't run the risk of offending someone.

What you actually mean by saing "I don't mean to be offensive" is that you don't care if someone else is offended.

Gay people CONSTANTLY talk about how they find the use of "gay" and "fag" as pejorative statements offensive. If you CARE about offending people, and don't MEAN to offend, you would respect that.

I'm a gay person, and my friends and I constantly use those words. Does my opinion matter less because I don't get mad when I hear those words?

whoops. double post

Atlas13:
I'm a gay person, and my friends and I constantly use those words. Does my opinion matter less because I don't get mad when I hear those words?

Hi there Mr. Special Snowflake.

I'm sure you speak for the entire culture you represent. SOME gay people are offended by it. You aren't? More power to you.

Seanchaidh:

Seekster:
Meh, I'll use it unless I know there are actually gay people around. Using it then would just be inappropriate.

I make a point of using gay pejoratively only when gay people are around. Gay people I know and like, anyway. And playfully, of course. If I can't say it in that circumstance, I shouldn't say it at all.

Haha, definitely this.

I'm a gay rights advocate, and my brother's a married gay man, but that doesn't stop me from telling him to "stop being such a faggot", and it doesn't stop us from laughing about it.

Context means everything; if somebody goes around on the streets calling random homosexuals "queerbaits" or "faggots", even if they weren't really a homophobic person, they'd still be acting like a colossal douchebag because they've failed to consider how offensive those words can be if there's any chance the recipient will consider them to be pejorative.

See Spot Run:

Atlas13:
I'm a gay person, and my friends and I constantly use those words. Does my opinion matter less because I don't get mad when I hear those words?

Hi there Mr. Special Snowflake.

I'm sure you speak for the entire culture you represent. SOME gay people are offended by it. You aren't? More power to you.

And you speak for the entire culture when you say they all "take great offense from the word"? For every person I hear saying they get offended at the words, I hear another saying they don't give a shit. You're saying I shouldn't say it at all cause it might offend someone who will never hear it from me. I'm saying, I don't care if someone gets "offended," but if they don't want me to use it around them, I won't. Otherwise it's free game.

Atlas13:
And you speak for the entire culture when you say they all "take great offense from the word"?

Not, I'm speaking for the portion of the culture that says they take offense to the word, who are real people, that the word really hurts, and they deserve to be treated with something resembling respect.

Atlas13:
I don't care if someone gets "offended,".

Exactly.

See Spot Run:

Seekster:
Why not? If I mean no offense then why is it my fault if someone is offended who has no reason to be offended. Like I said I am not going to call something gay around someone I know or suspect is gay, thats just in poor taste (and honestly I don't even call things gay all that much).

Because if you actually don't intend to be offensive, there are all kinds of words you can use that don't run the risk of offending someone.

What you actually mean by saing "I don't mean to be offensive" is that you don't care if someone else is offended.

Gay people CONSTANTLY talk about how they find the use of "gay" and "fag" as pejorative statements offensive. If you CARE about offending people, and don't WANT to offend, you would respect that.

I don't believe in being afraid of words. I won't go out of my way to offend someone but neither will I go out of my way not to risk offending them. Now if I say something that I can tell is seriously hurtful, hey I feel guilt just like anyone else and I will apologize. If I say something and someone goes "hey thats offensive" or acts all indignant and self righteous, well chances are I really won't care.

I don't use the word fag and I find it to be a crass and dirty word. As for the word gay, I don't think that word is often used in a way that is offensive.

Seekster:
Snip

So yes, I was right. It's not that you don't want to offend, it's that you don't care if you do.

See Spot Run:

Atlas13:
And you speak for the entire culture when you say they all "take great offense from the word"?

Not, I'm speaking for the portion of the culture that says they take offense to the word, who are real people, that the word really hurts, and they deserve to be treated with something resembling respect.

Atlas13:
I don't care if someone gets "offended,".

Exactly.

Nothing happens when you're offended. You don't get offended and suddenly wake up with one less organ. I grew up with the little nursery rhyme "Sticks and stones may break my bones but words will never hurt me."

Whatever happened to that? Sure I'll treat you with respect, just don't expect me to never say anything ever again out of fear that it will offend someone that won't hear it.

See Spot Run:

Seekster:
Snip

So yes, I was right. It's not that you don't want to offend, it's that you don't care if you do.

Not really no. If I don't feel guilty for something I am not going to act guilty.

It's slang that has outlived its original intent. That being said there are people with genuine reasons to be offended at what it means and it would be quite tactless to use it around them, or to at least refuse apologizing for it if its raised as a problem.

That being said, using the words in a commercial context makes little sense as you run the risk of people being offended without much potential reward in it for you. The same applies for politicians unless they represent genuinely bad people or want to portray themselves as standing up to the tyranny of good manners.

Seekster:
Why not? If I mean no offense then why is it my fault if someone is offended who has no reason to be offended. Like I said I am not going to call something gay around someone I know or suspect is gay, thats just in poor taste (and honestly I don't even call things gay all that much).

While I agree with this, it's not really the main issue for me.
I don't give a fuck if homosexuals get offended by the use of the word "gay", but I am concerned with is homosexual adolescents (or those who aren't sure yet) who associate their sexuality with the negative connotations. I don't care about offending people, but I do care about possibly psychological damage to kids.
So in that sense, I'm leaning towards cracking down on it's usage.

And on a totally off topic but still important matter:

Batou667:

Cunt

Fun fact time! Some Feminists are actually trying to reclaim the word "cunt" as the proper terminology for female genitalia. "Vagina" comes from the word for sheath or scabbard, which they feel is an insultingly male-centric description of of their anatomy as a receptacle (which I believe it is, there's no valley without hills, and all that...). "Cunt" however has its roots in the word for cleft, as in Cuneiform (cleft writing) or cunnilingus (literally: cleft-tonguing).

Aww, don't do that.

Cunt is such a harsh word for something so awesome. It just doesn't sound nice. Vagina sounds a tad bit scientific rather than slang-ish, so I'm ok with that. But "cunt" just sounds so... cold... sharp... hard... and just generally uncomfortable. Not really the kind of things that I associate with the body part in question. I think it's that "t" at the end that does it, because I don't find that "cleft", "Cuneiform" or "cunnilingus" to have that same feel.

I think the name pussy is perfect. That word sounds warm and comfortable. The kind of nice content feeling you get from petting a purring kitty.

Pingieking:

Seekster:
Why not? If I mean no offense then why is it my fault if someone is offended who has no reason to be offended. Like I said I am not going to call something gay around someone I know or suspect is gay, thats just in poor taste (and honestly I don't even call things gay all that much).

While I agree with this, it's not really the main issue for me.
I don't give a fuck if homosexuals get offended by the use of the word "gay", but I am concerned with is homosexual adolescents (or those who aren't sure yet) who associate their sexuality with the negative connotations. I don't care about offending people, but I do care about possibly psychological damage to kids.
So in that sense, I'm leaning towards cracking down on it's usage.

Oh yeah it shouldnt be used in a bullying context. Bullying is a serious problem and another issue entirely. Around kids most people (I hope) naturally try and censor themselves anyway or if they dont they probably should.

Seekster:
Oh yeah it shouldnt be used in a bullying context. Bullying is a serious problem and another issue entirely. Around kids most people (I hope) naturally try and censor themselves anyway or if they dont they probably should.

The continued use of the word as a pejorative, at all reinforces the EXACT SAME CULTURE that leads to kids getting bullied in school in the first place.

If you constanly use "gay" as a synonym for "bad" is it any fucking wonder that kids pick up the idea that being gay is bad?

If those words are used to insult or describe a person you know little about then I don't find them acceptable. If you're using the words in a passive way to describe an action, a thing, or a close friend then I don't care. The second situation makes it pretty obvious to me you aren't out to offend people. The usage of the words to bully can't be put on the same level as using them in a lighter tone. Are they the most tasteful of words? No, but that hasn't stopped us using a variety of other slang in the past.

See Spot Run:

Seekster:
Oh yeah it shouldnt be used in a bullying context. Bullying is a serious problem and another issue entirely. Around kids most people (I hope) naturally try and censor themselves anyway or if they dont they probably should.

The continued use of the word as a pejorative, at all reinforces the EXACT SAME CULTURE that leads to kids getting bullied in school in the first place.

If you constanly use "gay" as a synonym for "bad" is it any fucking wonder that kids pick up the idea that being gay is bad?

Sorry but I don't buy it. If a kid is bullying people at school that kid needs to be disciplined. Me saying something is gay does not directly cause someone to get bullied. As my motto says in my profile "You are responsible for your own life".

Well for one as I said earlier I rarely use the word "gay" in an insulting context for something and for another thing if I do use the word "gay" in an insulting context its most likely going to be for something that is absurd or ridiculous or just plain stupid.

See Spot Run:

Atlas13:
I'm a gay person, and my friends and I constantly use those words. Does my opinion matter less because I don't get mad when I hear those words?

Hi there Mr. Special Snowflake.

I'm sure you speak for the entire culture you represent. SOME gay people are offended by it. You aren't? More power to you.

Ah-ha! This is the "No True Scotsman" argument, right?

"All gays are offended by the word 'fag'!"
"I'm not"
"Shut up, you don't count"

Anyway, why so sanctimonious? You've never muttered "shit!" in public when you tripped up? You've never said "goddammit" in an environment where some people might be Christian? Every action you take has the potential to be taken offensively. Either you can lock yourself away and shun human contact, or you can accept that offence is taken, not given. You needn't worry about the hyper-sensitive.

Batou667:
Ah-ha! This is the "No True Scotsman" argument, right?

"All gays are offended by the word 'fag'!"
"I'm not"
"Shut up, you don't count"

Uh, no, because I never said "all gay people" are offended.

I said "gay people", as in, "a group of people, who are gay". This specific use of language actually does not connote "all", though people seem to love to take it that way.

Two of my good friends are gay. They are offended by the use of "gay" as a pejorative.

They are gay people. They are offended. Gay people are offended.

QED.

Seekster:
Me saying something is gay does not directly cause someone to get bullied.

What part of 'reinforces a culture that contributes to the bullying of gay children' did you take to mean "DIRECTLY CAUSES". I was pretty clearly asserting an indeirect cause, actually.

Seekster:
"gay" in an insulting context its most likely going to be for something that is absurd or ridiculous or just plain stupid.

That- that's not better.

Seekster:

Oh yeah it shouldnt be used in a bullying context. Bullying is a serious problem and another issue entirely. Around kids most people (I hope) naturally try and censor themselves anyway or if they dont they probably should.

I actually didn't mean it in a bullying context.

One of the students in the other class at the school I taught at wasn't quite sure about his sexual orientations and I happened to be one of the younger teachers involved with the gay-straight alliance. The "gay" comments weren't directed at him or used in any kind of malicious manner, but I could tell that it was rattling him quite a bit to know that he might be one of those people whose social category is synonymous with stupid. It's kind of hard for a kid to accept that he might be gay when that word is used in those kind of ways.

Anyways. The school was considering cracking down on the use of the word "gay" in such contexts, so I informed the other teachers and we got that rule put in place. I think it helped the kid out quite a bit.

In terms of the general public, I'm not sure I'm willing to go that far. After all, free speech does (and if it doesn't, it definitely should) come with the right to offend. But in certain social contexts, such as schools and certain public areas, it should definitely be heavily frowned upon.

Pingieking:
In terms of the general public, I'm not sure I'm willing to go that far. After all, free speech does (and if it doesn't, it definitely should) come with the right to offend. But in certain social contexts, such as schools and certain public areas, it should definitely be heavily frowned upon.

This is, of course, why I'm appealing to people's sense of not being a dick, rather than advocating the banning of such speech, too, by the way.

I don't have a problem with any words honestly. That doesn't mean that I walk around saying the n-word and telling people to f*** off because of the chance that it would offend someone, which is the same reason that I didn't type out the actual words in my post.

Words are only harmful if someone is willing to be hurt by them. I don't get upset when people call me names so I really don't see the big deal with saying most words. If there is someone that I knew was gay within earshot, even though I never really say it anyways, I would make sure that I avoided gay slurs to avoid feelings being hurt.

TheTurtleMan:
Words are only harmful if someone is willing to be hurt by them. I don't get upset when people call me names so I really don't see the big deal with saying most words.

There's a difference in this case though: homophobes still pretty much control society and spread a lot of hatred and prejudice. If people go around shouting gay or using words like gay or homosexual as bad language, it reinforces something that's already very real.

You can't just ignore a huge stigma and systematic discrimination because not being offended by it would be easier.

Neither should we want that. Allowing homophobia to spread will allow it to take over. And if we allow that, who's the next target? You or me, because no matter what, that type of people always find a way to hate you.

Blablahb:

TheTurtleMan:
Words are only harmful if someone is willing to be hurt by them. I don't get upset when people call me names so I really don't see the big deal with saying most words.

There's a difference in this case though: homophobes still pretty much control society and spread a lot of hatred and prejudice. If people go around shouting gay or using words like gay or homosexual as bad language, it reinforces something that's already very real.

You can't just ignore a huge stigma and systematic discrimination because not being offended by it would be easier.

Neither should we want that. Allowing homophobia to spread will allow it to take over. And if we allow that, who's the next target? You or me, because no matter what, that type of people always find a way to hate you.

Quit being a fag. Kidding, the reason I don't think it's a big deal is because people saying these kind of words aren't doing it to hurt other people, it's just slang, it doesn't mean anything nowadays to most people. My general rule is to not use certain language around people that would be offended by it. Not just in the case of sexuality or race, but upbringing as well. If I'm around someone that I know is uncomfortable with curse words, I'll avoid it.

TheTurtleMan:
it doesn't mean anything nowadays to most people.

... except to the people it hurts.

See Spot Run:

TheTurtleMan:
it doesn't mean anything nowadays to most people.

... except to the people it hurts.

Who aren't most people, so it's alright, presumably.

TheTurtleMan:
Quit being a fag. Kidding, the reason I don't think it's a big deal is because people saying these kind of words aren't doing it to hurt other people

My point is that in the case of homosexuality being used as bad language, it does hurt. Perhaps not to the direct target, but it does towards homosexuals who hear it used, and view that as a reinforcement of an already massive stigma against them.

It would be different if homophobia didn't exist, but right now, cursing with gay is kind of like swearing by calling someone a Jew in 1939 in Germany. Or calling someone a heretic now, or in the 1200's. The context makes for a massive difference in impact of a word.


offtopic:
Post nr 3000. wooh

The terms should be used within their proper context. Retardation, retard, retarded, are not bad words; it means simply reduced in magnitude. It is only used in the context of insulting someone, when it becomes slanderous. In short, the entire idea of damning these words is a knee-jerk reaction to a steadily growing moral panic.

Is it right to willfully hurt others? No, not in this day and age of progress. Harming others is usually done out of insecurity and fear. It doesn't always reduce the hurt an individual can feel, but once we understand the reason behind an individual's hatred, it begins to rob that person of their power induced through that hate.

Is it appropriate to use these words? Absolutely, when used in their original context, without the contempt or modern corruption, these words are every bit as valid as their alternatives.

Where is the line of acceptable use? What context can we use them in? That is a better question to ask.

Is it okay if we feign derision around out friends or while making a joke? It might seem tactless or crude to some people, but every generation invokes change. We change what it means to be acceptable. Like all generations, we fight against what is established as acceptable to impart control over our own lives. It's much the same way that cursing is no longer as offensive as it used to be. Personally, I have no problem with off-color humor. I've learned how to differentiate between humor and seriousness, not everyone does.

It is possible to use gay as a synonym for bad without being prejudiced against gays.

That's all I have to add really. I doubt that using such language makes people think less of gays, but I can't say it with certainty.

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