How do you feel about homeschooling?
It is unethical in almost all cases
19.8% (23)
19.8% (23)
It is unethical in many cases
20.7% (24)
20.7% (24)
It is not usually unethical
44.8% (52)
44.8% (52)
Sending kids to public schools is unethical
12.1% (14)
12.1% (14)
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Poll: Is homeschooling unethical?

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In Canada and the US (and presumably most other countries elsewhere) we have free and mandatory education for kids up until about the age of 18 (grade 12).

Some parents, however, choose to homeschool their kids rather than send the off to school. The reasons for this can vary, typically either because the parent disagrees with the school curriculum or because they believe the public school system would somehow be bad for their kids.

There are a number of problems with the idea of homeschooling, though. One large one is that ost parents are not trained educators, and are therefore not themselves educated enough to take on such a task themselves. Another is that curriculums are constantly changing, and the grade school education you recieved 20 years ago may well be outdated in some areas. It has also been argued that not letting kids hang around other kids hinders their scial growth and ability to conect with other people; whether this is true or not is difficult to determine, but we can at least say that loneliness is probably more likely when a kid has only his family and possibly neighbors (though I have to imagine the ind of person who would homeschool a kid is not terribly likely to encourage socializing with their neighbors) around to talk to.

The biggest arguement I can think of, though, is that knowledge, especially science, is not a negotiable topic unless you can come up with real evidence to support it. I can close my eyes and shut out anyone around me who says otherwise all I want but that won't change the fact that it's snowing outside.

The worst part, though, is that even if the currently accepted and taught knowledge is wrong, it wouldn't be taught if it wasn't considered important enough later on in their education to know it. For example, there are some parents who will homeschool their kids because they don't want them to be taught about evolution. Even if evolution was false, though, that would still be a bad idea, because now you have immediately dashed any chance of those kids ever going into a biological science-related career.

I'm not talking specifically about the evolution-denying parents, though they do make for a god example. What do you think about homeschooling in general?

Saladfork:
...though they do make for a god example.

Freud?

Anyway, well. It would seem that the German government thinks homeschooling is unethical, as we have mandatory schooling until 8th grade I believe (after that children can choose to get an apprenticeship if they want) and I would agree.
Education is enormously important. It helps integrate foreigners, it helps raise people up from the lower classes, it provides the best equalizer. It is essential for a healthy economy, too. Homeschooling kind of throws a wrench into all of it. Not in favour.

Homeschooling can work, but it most often doesn't. I can imagine a scenario wherein a parent believes the public school system to be too restricting and accepting of mediocrity. If the parent is both willing and capable, he or she could theoretically teach the child better than a public school could. I have a buddy who started homeschooling partway through middle school because the system simply wasn't compatible with him. Unfortunately, most homeschooling is for the purpose of insulating a child and instilling religious dogma.

I think that homeschooling can work and even be better than public education, if the following conditions are met:

1) One parent dedicates the bulk their time towards the child's education

2) The homeschooling isn't being done to push a specific agenda and covers a wide curriculum

3) The parent finds a way to give the child sufficient time with other children (e.g. homeschool cooperatives)

Sure, most people don't have the time or will to educate their own children, which is why public education will always make up the vast majority of pupils, but that doesn't mean that it's problem-free. In public education the child must complete with around 30 other pupils for attention and can't have the learning tailored to themselves.

Unethical? No. Pretentious? Often. A detriment to the kid's social skills? Very often.

Here's the thing though. Public schools can really, really suck. Most people who home-school don't do it because they disagree with the curriculum, and I get the impression you haven't met too many home-schooled kids if that's the impression you have. When it comes down to it, it is the parents responsibility to be sure they're children are educated, and if they think they can do a better job, they should. In an ideal world, "trained educator" means something. In the real world, specifically somewhere like rural Pennsylvania, that can be meaningless at times, and sometimes public school essentially acts as 12 year daycare.

I was not homeschooled, but I've known a few that were, and none of them had any issues with being social. Most of them did extra-curriculars with the public school anyway, since allowing that is common practice.

And if you are going to claim its immoral when parents teach something wrong about evolution, I want you to hold the same standard to every school that has ever taught that people didn't know the earth was round before Columbus, or the Great Depression ended because of World War II, or that chemists use the ideal gas law, or nerves are like electric wires, or bats are blind, or America is a democracy... etc.

Vegosiux:
Unethical? No. Pretentious? Often. A detriment to the kid's social skills? Very often.

Pretty much my view on it.

In my younger brother's case, he had to be homeschooled for his last few teenage years simply because he got kicked out of everywhere else. Homeschooling ended up as his last option if he wanted to actually get some GCSEs.

Done properly, it is the best thing you could ever do for your child.
Done poorly or for the wrong reasons, it is justification for calling child services in my opinion.

Bear in mind, for the former to apply, the parent(s) must be intelligent and well educated enough to relearn the properly up to date knowledge as they pass it along, the parent(s) must not be withholding knowledge because they disagree with it, and the child must be given plenty of free time with their peers, activities like the boy/girl scouts are fairly ideal.

Frankly, our public schools are a joke at best, particularly since they attempt to teach all students the same way at the same rate. A properly tailored education will ALWAYS be superior to one made standard for all comers.

tstorm823:
Here's the thing though. Public schools can really, really suck. Most people who home-school don't do it because they disagree with the curriculum, and I get the impression you haven't met too many home-schooled kids if that's the impression you have. When it comes down to it, it is the parents responsibility to be sure they're children are educated, and if they think they can do a better job, they should. In an ideal world, "trained educator" means something. In the real world, specifically somewhere like rural Pennsylvania, that can be meaningless at times, and sometimes public school essentially acts as 12 year daycare.

Ah... well, I've heard that American public schools tend to be stereotyped that way, and that private schools are apparantly the 'good' ones, to the point where allegedly going to a public school is some kind of mark of poverty. I couldn't say from first hand experience, so I generally assumed that it was false.

In Canada, though, our public schools don't get the same bad rap, and in personal experience at least, they're pretty good.

And if you are going to claim its immoral when parents teach something wrong about evolution, I want you to hold the same standard to every school that has ever taught that people didn't know the earth was round before Columbus, or the Great Depression ended because of World War II, or that chemists use the ideal gas law, or nerves are like electric wires, or bats are blind, or America is a democracy... etc.

Yeah, you're right, sometimes shools oversimplify certain ideas. My point was that they initially teach basic things (Columbus discovered the Americas!) so that later on they can be more detailed and add on to knowledge the kid already has (Well, he landed in Newfoundland actually. And he was looking for India. And in fact he thought he found it. Also, it was mathematically proven that the world was round already. Also, he may not have been the first European there anyway.)

Saladfork:

There are a number of problems with the idea of homeschooling, though. One large one is that ost parents are not trained educators, and are therefore not themselves educated enough to take on such a task themselves.

Parents receives extensive help, guidelines, and materials to assist in this endeavor. When a parent decides to homeschool their child, they don't drop off the grid and just start doing whatever they like. They do have rules and curriculum they have to follow. Also, I question how much better having an "expert" teacher is, considering they can't usually devote significant chunks of times to individual students due to classroom overcrowding and have to stick to a rigid indiscriminate educational pacing.

Another is that curriculums are constantly changing, and the grade school education you recieved 20 years ago may well be outdated in some areas.

That curriculum is also updating for those that are homeschooled.

it has also been argued that not letting kids hang around other kids hinders their scial growth and ability to conect with other people; whether this is true or not is difficult to determine, but we can at least say that loneliness is probably more likely when a kid has only his family and possibly neighbors (though I have to imagine the ind of person who would homeschool a kid is not terribly likely to encourage socializing with their neighbors) around to talk to.

This is the biggest criticism, but there are social groups outside of school a child can join. It just takes a bit more effort. Hell, I even know of a few schools around where I live that allow local homeschooled children to participate in their sports teams and clubs.

The biggest arguement I can think of, though, is that knowledge, especially science, is not a negotiable topic unless you can come up with real evidence to support it. I can close my eyes and shut out anyone around me who says otherwise all I want but that won't change the fact that it's snowing outside.

The worst part, though, is that even if the currently accepted and taught knowledge is wrong, it wouldn't be taught if it wasn't considered important enough later on in their education to know it. For example, there are some parents who will homeschool their kids because they don't want them to be taught about evolution. Even if evolution was false, though, that would still be a bad idea, because now you have immediately dashed any chance of those kids ever going into a biological science-related career.

I don't see this as being a significant problem. Simply teaching a child something doesn't mean they've internalized it and changed their attitudes. This happens all the time in public education, why would this be different with homeschooling? Also, if the concern is that parents just flat out won't teach their child about something, ie evolution, I have a hard time believing that. I'm of the belief that if a parent is concerned with their child's education to the extent that they're willing to do homeschooling, then they're going to teach them things they don't necessarily agree with for no other reason then they want to give their child the best chance they can. Cloistered fundamentalist cults notwithstanding.

The social aspect of high school is extremely important and I think that's the biggest argument against homeschooling you can make. Besides, how can individuals properly develop if they're not exposed to different ideas and beliefs?

I don't have kids, and am 90% sure I never will, but I probably would homeschool if I did. Only because public school was a complete waste of my time. I was absolutely bored out of my skull by fifth grade. I had a private tutor by eighth grade, and that was the only time I actually learned anything. Public schools cater to everyone, and if you're slightly smarter than the moss on a log you're not going to gain much benefit from education there after a certain point. On top of that, I have issues with the "convenient lies" that are told in early education. Something like "Columbus brought pilgrims over to America and they were all friends and that's why we have Thanksgiving." There's no reason for that. I value education far too highly to inflict that kind of thing on a potential child I have responsibility for.

Keeping your kids isolated and away from other kids is wrong. Also, public is probably the best preparation for college. At least in my experience, private and home school kids actually have a HARDER time getting in. Why? Because home and private school doesn't give you the option to fail. They push you non stop to make you succeed and don't give you the option. They MAKE you take the harder classes and coursework.

At public school, they don't. You have the option to take the easy way out. It's a measure of character that despite an easier and more convenient solution, you STILL took the harder course because you wanted to further your education.

Can it be? Yes. Is it always? No.

Like anything there are points for and against it. For example if I lived in certain parts of the US I would not send my child to schools there as the sheer mind numbing idiocy we see I would not want my child to put up with.

It has pros and cons, and that's all we can really say for sure.

Saladfork:
In Canada and the US (and presumably most other countries elsewhere) we have free and mandatory education for kids up until about the age of 18 (grade 12).

Some parents, however, choose to homeschool their kids rather than send the off to school. The reasons for this can vary, typically either because the parent disagrees with the school curriculum or because they believe the public school system would somehow be bad for their kids.

There are a number of problems with the idea of homeschooling, though. One large one is that ost parents are not trained educators, and are therefore not themselves educated enough to take on such a task themselves.

On the other hand teachers have to teach classes of 20-30 people (that's what I'm assuming they're specifically trained to do), and cannot focus their attention on a couple students who aren't doing too well leaving them behind and consequently for the rest of the year if they get out of sync with the class. On top of this students aren't too vocal about how well they understand a topic, so teachers just have to assume that their lecture makes sense to the students. When you're homeschooling you only have to take care of a couple of kids, and it's not like the textbooks are barred from you (considering taking notes from textbooks is better for preparing for a test than taking notes from a lecture it eliminates the need for a teacher) if anything you can afford to get more expensive ones since you're only getting one instead of the hundreds schools have to pay for, so from there it gets better. On top of this you only have to focus on one students set of errors and inabilities, you don't have to create some list every student did leaving some students ignored in them.

Saladfork:

Another is that curriculums are constantly changing, and the grade school education you recieved 20 years ago may well be outdated in some areas.

Erm I am going to also assume here that the Curriculum is also online and you can look up what the student needs to know, if anything it's better because some area's are too poor to keep up.

Saladfork:

It has also been argued that not letting kids hang around other kids hinders their scial growth and ability to conect with other people; whether this is true or not is difficult to determine, but we can at least say that loneliness is probably more likely when a kid has only his family and possibly neighbors (though I have to imagine the ind of person who would homeschool a kid is not terribly likely to encourage socializing with their neighbors) around to talk to.

What? Now growing up diagnosed with Aspergers syndrome (I'm convinced our leading experts know next to nothing on it, since they don't know what it is exactly if I have it since the explanations are far from the truth) being forced into a public school was horrible, I didn't get along with too many people and being forced into classes with people who by now are dropping out of high school was traumatic. I mean I started hating school feeling homework was just a reminder of it and I didn't do it, making my grades tumble for years. It wasn't until recently when I figured out I could just take harder classes and avoid these morons because those morons aren't going to take hard classes leaving only people who are mature and smart. I would have been much better off had I been home schooled, but my parents both had jobs that took all their time so they couldn't.

Now I think the best argument would just be AP exams, anyone can take them and since you're focusing on one student you can easily just teach them from the book and get them to be able to pass them, so in theory it could be even better than a public school especially one that doesn't offer too many AP classes.

Compulsory education for children is not really effective, at least not in the US. I see the justification for public school as 80% babysitting, 20% socialization, and 0% learning. Children who want to learn will read a lot on there own, and the best way to encourage that is by letting them choose what they read.

Godavari:
Homeschooling can work, but it most often doesn't. I can imagine a scenario wherein a parent believes the public school system to be too restricting and accepting of mediocrity. If the parent is both willing and capable, he or she could theoretically teach the child better than a public school could. I have a buddy who started homeschooling partway through middle school because the system simply wasn't compatible with him. Unfortunately, most homeschooling is for the purpose of insulating a child and instilling religious dogma.

I'd have to agree with this...

In the UK there are standard checkers to make sure parents are teaching their child to an "adequate level" in all area's require science being one of them.

For a long time the result has been positive... in the UK.

However recently a few Muslim specialist schools have been poping up which were avoiding standards and teaching Islamic Dogma mostly... English, Maths and Dogma. Not exactly home schooling but it summarizes the possibility... if someone wants to avoid the system it needs only abuse the systems trust by using home schooling...

Funnily enough however the home education system only breaks if the system that is government trusts outright the home education system and does not check up on it often enough...

The system, like every other only breaks if faith is put in it... faith without evidence... lol ironic considering who most abusers of the system will be...

Some parents will just not be up to the job but they are not abusing it, they are just fools. People who intentionally abuse it...

Aris Khandr:
I don't have kids, and am 90% sure I never will, but I probably would homeschool if I did. Only because public school was a complete waste of my time. I was absolutely bored out of my skull by fifth grade.

So if your school failed you like that what makes you think you'd do any better than the trained teachers they had there, whose teaching skills are far superior to yours no matter how one looks at it?

If you want to keep it interesting, add more yourself. Don't deprive your kids of social skills and a recognized standardised grade that will forever hamper them when trying to find a job. I spent most of the time in school being bored stiff, but all the more fun if a challenge did arise, and what I did next in terms of hobbies and extra activities kept it interesting. Heck, by age 10 I knew enough about computers to tear the thing apart to it's components and put it back together and had a grade to show for it. That grade is ussually after primary school + secondary school + lowest type of tertiary education, and I had it before 'graduating' primary school. It still helps me to this day. My resume has never been turned down to date, even if I very narrowly avoided failing a year on a few occasions.

Saladfork:
In Canada and the US (and presumably most other countries elsewhere) we have free and mandatory education for kids up until about the age of 18 (grade 12).

Some parents, however, choose to homeschool their kids rather than send the off to school. The reasons for this can vary, typically either because the parent disagrees with the school curriculum or because they believe the public school system would somehow be bad for their kids.

There are a number of problems with the idea of homeschooling, though. One large one is that ost parents are not trained educators, and are therefore not themselves educated enough to take on such a task themselves. Another is that curriculums are constantly changing, and the grade school education you recieved 20 years ago may well be outdated in some areas. It has also been argued that not letting kids hang around other kids hinders their scial growth and ability to conect with other people; whether this is true or not is difficult to determine, but we can at least say that loneliness is probably more likely when a kid has only his family and possibly neighbors (though I have to imagine the ind of person who would homeschool a kid is not terribly likely to encourage socializing with their neighbors) around to talk to.

The biggest arguement I can think of, though, is that knowledge, especially science, is not a negotiable topic unless you can come up with real evidence to support it. I can close my eyes and shut out anyone around me who says otherwise all I want but that won't change the fact that it's snowing outside.

The worst part, though, is that even if the currently accepted and taught knowledge is wrong, it wouldn't be taught if it wasn't considered important enough later on in their education to know it. For example, there are some parents who will homeschool their kids because they don't want them to be taught about evolution. Even if evolution was false, though, that would still be a bad idea, because now you have immediately dashed any chance of those kids ever going into a biological science-related career.

I'm not talking specifically about the evolution-denying parents, though they do make for a god example. What do you think about homeschooling in general?

You assume homeschooling is always outside the state. The state of California has a homeschool program, where you get your work, do it at home, but still have an office for you to visit in case you have troubles understanding the work. You get grades, and you still have a counselor to talk to for college.

If you're going to argue something, please do the research.

Ultratwinkie:

Saladfork:
In Canada and the US (and presumably most other countries elsewhere) we have free and mandatory education for kids up until about the age of 18 (grade 12).

Some parents, however, choose to homeschool their kids rather than send the off to school. The reasons for this can vary, typically either because the parent disagrees with the school curriculum or because they believe the public school system would somehow be bad for their kids.

There are a number of problems with the idea of homeschooling, though. One large one is that ost parents are not trained educators, and are therefore not themselves educated enough to take on such a task themselves. Another is that curriculums are constantly changing, and the grade school education you recieved 20 years ago may well be outdated in some areas. It has also been argued that not letting kids hang around other kids hinders their scial growth and ability to conect with other people; whether this is true or not is difficult to determine, but we can at least say that loneliness is probably more likely when a kid has only his family and possibly neighbors (though I have to imagine the ind of person who would homeschool a kid is not terribly likely to encourage socializing with their neighbors) around to talk to.

The biggest arguement I can think of, though, is that knowledge, especially science, is not a negotiable topic unless you can come up with real evidence to support it. I can close my eyes and shut out anyone around me who says otherwise all I want but that won't change the fact that it's snowing outside.

The worst part, though, is that even if the currently accepted and taught knowledge is wrong, it wouldn't be taught if it wasn't considered important enough later on in their education to know it. For example, there are some parents who will homeschool their kids because they don't want them to be taught about evolution. Even if evolution was false, though, that would still be a bad idea, because now you have immediately dashed any chance of those kids ever going into a biological science-related career.

I'm not talking specifically about the evolution-denying parents, though they do make for a god example. What do you think about homeschooling in general?

You assume homeschooling is always outside the state. The state of California has a homeschool program, where you get your work, do it at home, but still have an office for you to visit in case you have troubles understanding the work. You get grades, and you still have a counselor to talk to for college.

If you're going to argue something, please do the research.

well i did a quick google search...

http://www.nheri.org/research/research-facts-on-homeschooling.html

i can has cookie now? ^__^

PercyBoleyn:
The social aspect of high school is extremely important and I think that's the biggest argument against homeschooling you can make. Besides, how can individuals properly develop if they're not exposed to different ideas and beliefs?

You assume they don't leave their house. Home School kids DO have other things to do, like jobs, etc. I managed to get out into the real world more than High school. High school was just teen bullshit, where in the real world you learn none of that really matters.

I_am_acting:

Ultratwinkie:

Saladfork:
In Canada and the US (and presumably most other countries elsewhere) we have free and mandatory education for kids up until about the age of 18 (grade 12).

Some parents, however, choose to homeschool their kids rather than send the off to school. The reasons for this can vary, typically either because the parent disagrees with the school curriculum or because they believe the public school system would somehow be bad for their kids.

There are a number of problems with the idea of homeschooling, though. One large one is that ost parents are not trained educators, and are therefore not themselves educated enough to take on such a task themselves. Another is that curriculums are constantly changing, and the grade school education you recieved 20 years ago may well be outdated in some areas. It has also been argued that not letting kids hang around other kids hinders their scial growth and ability to conect with other people; whether this is true or not is difficult to determine, but we can at least say that loneliness is probably more likely when a kid has only his family and possibly neighbors (though I have to imagine the ind of person who would homeschool a kid is not terribly likely to encourage socializing with their neighbors) around to talk to.

The biggest arguement I can think of, though, is that knowledge, especially science, is not a negotiable topic unless you can come up with real evidence to support it. I can close my eyes and shut out anyone around me who says otherwise all I want but that won't change the fact that it's snowing outside.

The worst part, though, is that even if the currently accepted and taught knowledge is wrong, it wouldn't be taught if it wasn't considered important enough later on in their education to know it. For example, there are some parents who will homeschool their kids because they don't want them to be taught about evolution. Even if evolution was false, though, that would still be a bad idea, because now you have immediately dashed any chance of those kids ever going into a biological science-related career.

I'm not talking specifically about the evolution-denying parents, though they do make for a god example. What do you think about homeschooling in general?

You assume homeschooling is always outside the state. The state of California has a homeschool program, where you get your work, do it at home, but still have an office for you to visit in case you have troubles understanding the work. You get grades, and you still have a counselor to talk to for college.

If you're going to argue something, please do the research.

well i did a quick google search...

http://www.nheri.org/research/research-facts-on-homeschooling.html

i can has cookie now? ^__^

image

There you go.

I am amazed the amount of people who still believe it follows the old world rules of the late 1800s.

In the US, there's a big move to remove the "achievement gap" (thanks, Bush). This is basically causing all the time/money/effort to be put towards teaching the less-intelligent kids. If you have smart kids, then unless you live in a neighborhood with many other smart kids (read: smart parents), you'd be well-advised to go for private or home schooling.

http://www.eastbayexpress.com/ebx/berkeley-high-may-cut-out-science-labs/Content?oid=1536705

http://owatonna.com/content/district-aims-eliminate-gifted-program-add-inquiry (ctrl+f "with the hope")

Unethical is a strong word. It's usually misguided at best, though. There aren't many people who could properly teach every subject on a high school level. If you really understand and can teach calculus, advanced biology, advanced chemistry, advanced physcis, Spanish, history, grammar, and computer programing, and you have the time and resources to devote to teaching them properly, and have the temperament to teach, then go for it. Very few people do. Even among high school teachers I know, very few of them would be able to teach every one of those subjects with a high degree of competence.

Vegosiux:
Unethical? No. Pretentious? Often. A detriment to the kid's social skills? Very often.

I think this pretty much sums up my opinion on it.

Of course there could be a bit of moral gray area with the possibility of them steering their kid away from evolution and such, but this can just as easily be done outside of school hours. With the whole "your teachers will tell you this, but they are terrible sinners and are wrong!" nonsense. So unless we're going to completely outlaw this sort of indoctrination in all situations, there's no point in picking on just homeschooling.

When I was in the Air Force, and was getting kicked out (apparently Asperger's is a "cannot serve" disorder, who knew?), and there was another dude getting kicked out. He had been home schooled every day of his life, and had left for the military after he turned 18.

He refused to believe dinosaurs existed, claiming that fossils were put on Earth to test our faith. He claimed that every death in the Crusades was done by atheists to make God's Army look bad. He had never seen a person in any state of undress, other than himself, other than one look at a National Geographic Magazine. He believed science was a tool of Satan. He was getting kicked out because seeing men naked caused him to go into a state where he believed God was going to smite him for seeing other men naked, which made showering difficult to say the least.

Not saying every case of home schooling is like that... but still...

Homeschooling can be very effective, especially at younger ages. There is a definitive link between reading and writing skills and how much hands on education you received from a parent or even babysitter at home during the early years.

In the ideal world there would be a mix of both. Personally my mum didn't have time to do this, being a single working mum. However I remember having a babysitter all of us as children went to after school and spent an hour or so reading books, doing puzzles that sort of thing. Also during school hours we had some parents that would come in and take kids in 1 on 1 sessions for reading throughout the day. This sort of stuff has proven to result in children having high reading and writing skills.

At a personal level I was reading and writing at high school level by the time I was in 5th grade. By the time I left Primary School I already surpassed the senior school standard. There were a handful of us in my school, as I am sure there are in every school, that did. The reason is pretty simple, we began to learn before anyone else at home.

This is why when you look at those statistics on how well home-school kids do compared to the "average" you have to be careful. Chances are the type of child that is being home schooled would do well in a school setting anyway because their parents would still have a hands on approach to education at home and probably began before traditional school.

I have no idea what answer to select. What do you say about something that's the best choice in a quiver of bad choices in one case and downright abusive in another?

I know people who homeschool, in every case of the ones I know personally it's because the kid has special needs of some kind (ADHD, autism, very severe bullying, gifted in a district without a program for that) that the school either won't accommodate or doesn't know how to accommodate, and the family for whatever reason doesn't have a choice of schools-- they might be in a rural area, or can't afford to move, or job-limited to where they are-- so the family takes it on as best they can because their kid's school is doing considerable harm to their kid. This shouldn't be an option because it shouldn't *have* to be an option, but we don't live in Candyland where all schools know how to deal with pupil problems or non-neurotypical students. Homeschooling, done well, has the advantage of being uniquely adaptive to the student's needs, and has the advantage of being more experimental and more experiential and less chained to rote learning and "teaching to the test" (something no student should have to deal with, but most do). Some kids do phenomenally well in this environment and end up academically leaps and bounds ahead of their classmates, and without the pressure of having to try to meet the standards of bullies, they end up just as (or more) socially well-adjusted. I can't argue with homeschooling in cases like this.

But OTOH, then you have parents who will pull a kid out of school as a control mechanism, to isolate and indoctrinate, and keep the kid from associating with anyone who will cause them to question the parent's ideology. In this kind of situation, homeschooling is a psychological death-blow, keeping the kid from anything that might give them a way to escape. I'm not only talking about fundamentalists, I'm talking about abusive parents of all stripes, and also about parents who will take on homeschooling without any rational ability to teach their child and with completely silly ideas of what that would entail. I remember one reality show family that pulled their kids out of school so the father could live out his vagabond, living-out-of-an-RV lifestyle fantasy. "School" was an occasional museum trip. It's hard to argue *for* homeschooling in cases like this.

There's no easy conclusion to draw that doesn't hurt one of these kids at the expense of the other.

Polarity27:
I have no idea what answer to select. What do you say about something that's the best choice in a quiver of bad choices in one case and downright abusive in another?

I know people who homeschool, in every case of the ones I know personally it's because the kid has special needs of some kind (ADHD, autism, very severe bullying, gifted in a district without a program for that) that the school either won't accommodate or doesn't know how to accommodate, and the family for whatever reason doesn't have a choice of schools-- they might be in a rural area, or can't afford to move, or job-limited to where they are-- so the family takes it on as best they can because their kid's school is doing considerable harm to their kid. This shouldn't be an option because it shouldn't *have* to be an option, but we don't live in Candyland where all schools know how to deal with pupil problems or non-neurotypical students. Homeschooling, done well, has the advantage of being uniquely adaptive to the student's needs, and has the advantage of being more experimental and more experiential and less chained to rote learning and "teaching to the test" (something no student should have to deal with, but most do). Some kids do phenomenally well in this environment and end up academically leaps and bounds ahead of their classmates, and without the pressure of having to try to meet the standards of bullies, they end up just as (or more) socially well-adjusted. I can't argue with homeschooling in cases like this.

But OTOH, then you have parents who will pull a kid out of school as a control mechanism, to isolate and indoctrinate, and keep the kid from associating with anyone who will cause them to question the parent's ideology. In this kind of situation, homeschooling is a psychological death-blow, keeping the kid from anything that might give them a way to escape. I'm not only talking about fundamentalists, I'm talking about abusive parents of all stripes, and also about parents who will take on homeschooling without any rational ability to teach their child and with completely silly ideas of what that would entail. I remember one reality show family that pulled their kids out of school so the father could live out his vagabond, living-out-of-an-RV lifestyle fantasy. "School" was an occasional museum trip. It's hard to argue *for* homeschooling in cases like this.

There's no easy conclusion to draw that doesn't hurt one of these kids at the expense of the other.

thats an incredibly black and white post you made there. yes some home schooled kids are well-educated and socially well adjusted and yes some home school kids are severly fucked up. you are also forgetting those that are actually educated well in home school but when it comes to social knowledge and real world application and interaction they fall short, some by mere figurative inches and others by miles. these cases are not always do to kids being force fed dogmatic beliefs from their parents, but who never really had enough social interaction with people outside of their family.

Saladfork:

Yeah, you're right, sometimes shools oversimplify certain ideas. My point was that they initially teach basic things (Columbus discovered the Americas!) so that later on they can be more detailed and add on to knowledge the kid already has (Well, he landed in Newfoundland actually. And he was looking for India. And in fact he thought he found it. Also, it was mathematically proven that the world was round already. Also, he may not have been the first European there anyway.)

Wat? Were you home schooled?

I think that home schooling can be detrimental to a child intellectual development, because many of the parents who home school their kids are doing it to circumvent the more secular (or perceived liberal) education that public schools tend to give their students. Of course, there are kids who are home schooled by their parents because they just aren't able to learn effectively in a regular class room, or those who are more advance intellectually than their peers, but a large chunk of the kids who are home schooled are home schooled for religious or political reasons.

GrimTuesday:

Saladfork:

Yeah, you're right, sometimes shools oversimplify certain ideas. My point was that they initially teach basic things (Columbus discovered the Americas!) so that later on they can be more detailed and add on to knowledge the kid already has (Well, he landed in Newfoundland actually. And he was looking for India. And in fact he thought he found it. Also, it was mathematically proven that the world was round already. Also, he may not have been the first European there anyway.)

Wat? Were you home schooled?

I think that home schooling can be detrimental to a child intellectual development, because many of the parents who home school their kids are doing it to circumvent the more secular (or perceived liberal) education that public schools tend to give their students. Of course, there are kids who are home schooled by their parents because they just aren't able to learn effectively in a regular class room, or those who are more advance intellectually than their peers, but a large chunk of the kids who are home schooled are home schooled for religious or political reasons.

Care to back that up? Since there are now state-run programs for this?

GrimTuesday:

Saladfork:

Yeah, you're right, sometimes shools oversimplify certain ideas. My point was that they initially teach basic things (Columbus discovered the Americas!) so that later on they can be more detailed and add on to knowledge the kid already has (Well, he landed in Newfoundland actually. And he was looking for India. And in fact he thought he found it. Also, it was mathematically proven that the world was round already. Also, he may not have been the first European there anyway.)

Wat? Were you home schooled?

The Newfoundland thing is wrong, because I'm pretty sure he landed in the modern day Dominican Republic, but everything else though is correct.

I only know one person who was home-schooled. She is smart, kind, polite, professional, and amazingly driven. I think I'm being completely honest when I say I'm doing half the work she does and am exhausted by it. Now I'm sure there are a lot of factors at play here, especially given our ages. But I can't see any reason to conclude home schooling is bad simply by her case. And her social skills are far superior to any number of public-schooled colleagues of mine.

Now that said, as a teacher myself I'm a bit annoyed by the home-school movement, if only because I'm working my ass off to try and get the qualifications I need to be a good teacher and it's entirely possible I will never be able to find the job I want in the country I want paying a salary that will enable me to live comfortably while paying off all the debt I'm going into to get the qualifications to begin with. So to think someone can just decide they will do just as good job as I because they found a good textbook on line and don't work a day job kinda chaps my ass a bit. But then that attitude is rife in my field anyway, usually coming from people who think knowing a language makes them an effective language teacher. So while it may annoy me, home schoolers are the least of my concerns as long as they don't squeeze me out of the job market.

Katatori-kun:
I only know one person who was home-schooled. She is smart, kind, polite, professional, and amazingly driven. I think I'm being completely honest when I say I'm doing half the work she does and am exhausted by it. Now I'm sure there are a lot of factors at play here, especially given our ages. But I can't see any reason to conclude home schooling is bad simply by her case. And her social skills are far superior to any number of public-schooled colleagues of mine.

Now that said, as a teacher myself I'm a bit annoyed by the home-school movement, if only because I'm working my ass off to try and get the qualifications I need to be a good teacher and it's entirely possible I will never be able to find the job I want in the country I want paying a salary that will enable me to live comfortably while paying off all the debt I'm going into to get the qualifications to begin with. So to think someone can just decide they will do just as good job as I because they found a good textbook on line and don't work a day job kinda chaps my ass a bit. But then that attitude is rife in my field anyway, usually coming from people who think knowing a language makes them an effective language teacher. So while it may annoy me, home schoolers are the least of my concerns as long as they don't squeeze me out of the job market.

or you can become a professional home school teacher.i shit you not those actually exist, instead of the parent taking over the role, they hire a teacher to teach their kids at home. this way they get education from a certified professional and the kids are not subject to public school shortcomings.

Ultratwinkie:

GrimTuesday:

Saladfork:

Yeah, you're right, sometimes shools oversimplify certain ideas. My point was that they initially teach basic things (Columbus discovered the Americas!) so that later on they can be more detailed and add on to knowledge the kid already has (Well, he landed in Newfoundland actually. And he was looking for India. And in fact he thought he found it. Also, it was mathematically proven that the world was round already. Also, he may not have been the first European there anyway.)

Wat? Were you home schooled?

I think that home schooling can be detrimental to a child intellectual development, because many of the parents who home school their kids are doing it to circumvent the more secular (or perceived liberal) education that public schools tend to give their students. Of course, there are kids who are home schooled by their parents because they just aren't able to learn effectively in a regular class room, or those who are more advance intellectually than their peers, but a large chunk of the kids who are home schooled are home schooled for religious or political reasons.

Care to back that up? Since there are now state-run programs for this?

Yes, there are quite a few programs through the states that allow for greater oversight but there is a large majority who cited wanting to teach certain religous things/morals or because of the things that are actually taught in schools (I'd be willing to be evolution is one of the driving factors behind this).

http://nces.ed.gov/pubs2009/2009030.pdf (figure 2 has a nice graph)

Warforger:

GrimTuesday:

Saladfork:

Yeah, you're right, sometimes shools oversimplify certain ideas. My point was that they initially teach basic things (Columbus discovered the Americas!) so that later on they can be more detailed and add on to knowledge the kid already has (Well, he landed in Newfoundland actually. And he was looking for India. And in fact he thought he found it. Also, it was mathematically proven that the world was round already. Also, he may not have been the first European there anyway.)

Wat? Were you home schooled?

The Newfoundland thing is wrong, because I'm pretty sure he landed in the modern day Dominican Republic, but everything else though is correct.

Yeah, I was mostly just trying to make a joke at the expense of his saying the wrong place was discovered, I should have only bolded Newfoundland, Although I'm almost positive he was the first European to get to the Dominican Republic (which he named Hispaniola) and Cuba.

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