Pastor Harris of North Carolina tells parents to beat their effiminate sons and butch daughters

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Volf:
Like I said, I wouldn't beat my hypothetical daughter for playing with trucks. I would however discourage(see: talk to) my hypothetical son from wearing lipstick and wearing a dress.

My hypothetical son would be at least 1/4 Scottish, as I'm Scottish/German. So he's likely own a "skirt" (it's a kilt) well before he started school. And if he preferred his kilt and wanted dresses, go for it. My values are largely independent from those of my parents, and I feel no compulsion to force my values onto any children I have. I'll instill the basic ideas of "don't break the law, don't hit people", the sorts of stuff you need to survive in society. But if my hypothetical son wanted to be a transvestite, I'll shrug, smile, and take him to see the Rocky Horror Picture Show.

ReservoirAngel:

Volf:

Aris Khandr:
Yeah, and I'd like my hypothetical child to be a genius who shares my interest in football, but I'm not going to beat her if she comes home wearing a Tottenham jersey.

Like I said, I wouldn't beat my hypothetical daughter for playing with trucks. I would however discourage(see: talk to) my hypothetical son from wearing lipstick and wearing a dress.

What if your hypothetical son was just born to be a drag queen? Who are you to deny him that, you dream-crushing monster!

I joke, of course. Mostly.

Honestly, I don't know what I would do if that was the case.

LilithSlave:

Volf:
but I'm not going to promote it.

Likewise, I'm not going to promote the existence of gender roles. Or basically, your perspective.

Also, seems awfully horrid to respond to someone with a mocking cartoon clip. And that's it.

What can I say, your intentionally promoting a son who wears a dress. I can't help but laugh.

Volf:
What can I say, your intentionally promoting a son who wears a dress. I can't help but laugh.

I don't see what's laughable about it. But then again, I don't see what's wrong with a male wearing a dress, like you do.

The only flags that would raise with me, would be how to explain the difficult matter of social appropriateness and how some people might bully him. Or how to avoid him being bullied for it as much as possible.

After all, we're living in a world, with people like this Sean Harris guy. I would like my boy to feel free to be as effeminate as he likes. But I would worry harm by the hands of others, less open-minded folks. And would need to take active precautions against it.

And not allow him into a situation where he needs to be mindful of people who would hate him for whatever hobbies or reasonable desires he has, whether it be dressing girly, watching My Little Pony, or anything of the sort.

Volf:

ReservoirAngel:

Volf:
Like I said, I wouldn't beat my hypothetical daughter for playing with trucks. I would however discourage(see: talk to) my hypothetical son from wearing lipstick and wearing a dress.

What if your hypothetical son was just born to be a drag queen? Who are you to deny him that, you dream-crushing monster!

I joke, of course. Mostly.

Honestly, I don't know what I would do if that was the case.

The only truly acceptable course of action is "love him the same regardless". Anything else and you're at least a little bit of a prick.

Volf:

LilithSlave:

Volf:
but I'm not going to promote it.

Likewise, I'm not going to promote the existence of gender roles. Or basically, your perspective.

Also, seems awfully horrid to respond to someone with a mocking cartoon clip. And that's it.

What can I say, your intentionally promoting a son who wears a dress. I can't help but laugh.

She just said she wasn't intentionally promoting it, but that she wouldn't promote strict gender roles either. There's a difference between the two.

Volf:

What can I say, your intentionally promoting a son who wears a dress. I can't help but laugh.

Why? Women can wear trouser, Scottish men (arguably some of the 'manliest' men) wear kilts, which aren't exactly far removed from skirts.

Beyond cultural stigma/gender roles, why shouldn't men wear dresses, exactly?

Cakes:

CaptainOctopus:
If the majority of pastors don't preach these sections who also do not fit in with todays modern society, why not change the bible the church is using? It has been done before, so why not today?

No, I really don't think it has been done before. I think you're just confused about the different translations being used, (almost?) no Christian group has "changed the bible" in that way.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZFrkjEgUDZA&t=5m40s

ReservoirAngel:

The only truly acceptable course of action is "love him the same regardless". Anything else and you're at least a little bit of a prick.

Bullshit, I don't have to accept everything that my son wants to do. I don't know how you plan to raise kids(if you even choose to do so) but I'm not allowing a 5year old to dictate such things.

Amnestic:

Volf:

What can I say, your intentionally promoting a son who wears a dress. I can't help but laugh.

Why? Women can wear trouser, Scottish men (arguably some of the 'manliest' men) wear kilts, which aren't exactly far removed from skirts.

Beyond cultural stigma/gender roles, why shouldn't men wear dresses, exactly?

You just answered your own question, I like my culture and I plan to pass that on. Part of that culture is that guys don't wear dresses.

Also, I'm not Scottish so that's not something I have to be concerned about.

LilithSlave:

Volf:
What can I say, your intentionally promoting a son who wears a dress. I can't help but laugh.

I don't see what's laughable about it. But then again, I don't see what's wrong with a male wearing a dress, like you do.

The only flags that would raise with me, would be how to explain the difficult matter of social appropriateness and how some people might bully him. Or how to avoid him being bullied for it as much as possible.

After all, we're living in a world, with people like this Sean Harris guy. I would like my boy to feel free to be as effeminate as he likes. But I would worry harm by the hands of others, less open-minded folks. And would need to take active precautions against it.

And not allow him into a situation where he needs to be mindful of people who would hate him for whatever hobbies or reasonable desires he has, whether it be dressing girly, watching My Little Pony, or anything of the sort.

Like I said, I'm not going to argue over this with you, I don't think guys should wear dresses.

Volf:
Like I said, I'm not going to argue over this with you, I don't think guys should wear dresses.

And I think it's incredibly sad that you feel that way.

LilithSlave:

Volf:
Like I said, I'm not going to argue over this with you, I don't think guys should wear dresses.

And I think it's incredibly sad that you feel that way.

And I think that its incredibly pathetic that you think that its sad.

Volf:
Like I said, I'm not going to argue over this with you, I don't think guys should wear dresses.

Indeed. Someone should tell this man to get out of the damned dress. He's such a damned woman in that thing.

Naheal:

Volf:
Like I said, I'm not going to argue over this with you, I don't think guys should wear dresses.

Indeed. Someone should tell this man to get out of the damned dress. He's such a damned woman in that thing.

Again, I'm not Scottish, so I don't have that issue.

Volf:

Naheal:

Volf:
Like I said, I'm not going to argue over this with you, I don't think guys should wear dresses.

Indeed. Someone should tell this man to get out of the damned dress. He's such a damned woman in that thing.

Again, I'm not Scottish, so I don't have that issue.

Not touching the argument, then. Good move.

Naheal:

Volf:

Naheal:

Indeed. Someone should tell this man to get out of the damned dress. He's such a damned woman in that thing.

Again, I'm not Scottish, so I don't have that issue.

Not touching the argument, then. Good move.

I want to pass on my culture, and my culture isn't Scottish, so your point is void. I'm not conflicted because I'm not Scottish.

Sorry, if my 5 year old thinks it would be neat to wear a dress to school, it isn't happening. I guess that would be denying him his freedom of expression? Kids go through phases, even when they are older, like in high school. I dressed like a goth sometimes, and damn, how I wish I never did that, it was stupid in hindsight. It's like an "if I knew then what I know now" scenario, and I would certainly tell my child about that, at least.

Volf:

Naheal:

Volf:
Again, I'm not Scottish, so I don't have that issue.

Not touching the argument, then. Good move.

I want to pass on my culture, and my culture isn't Scottish, so your point is void. I'm not conflicted because I'm not Scottish.

This argument has nothing to do with culture and you're avoiding the issue entirely. I know plenty of people who've begun wearing kilts because I've sported mine a time or two. And then there's the utilikilt. However, no matter how you look at it, it's a damned skirt and, in some areas, can even resemble a skirt worn by a school girl. I would like to see a good video of someone calling a man in a kilt a lady-boy.

Additionally, I have a tendency to have a bit of a thing for tomboys, so the idea of smacking around a girl because... she's acting a little manly is outright offensive. Are you arguing that a woman who still has a few body language cues that would be normally confused as masculine is confused and deserves this kind of treatment?

Volf:

ReservoirAngel:

The only truly acceptable course of action is "love him the same regardless". Anything else and you're at least a little bit of a prick.

Bullshit, I don't have to accept everything that my son wants to do. I don't know how you plan to raise kids(if you even choose to do so) but I'm not allowing a 5year old to dictate such things.

You don't have to accept everything that your son wants to do, but you'd damn well better love him the same regardless of what he wants to do. Anything less would make you a pretty poor parent, along with what ReservoirAngel said.

hardlymotivated:

You don't have to accept everything that your son wants to do, but you'd damn well better love him the same regardless of what he wants to do. Anything less would make you a pretty poor parent, along with what ReservoirAngel said.

Again, bullshit. You don't have final say about what makes a good parent. Case in point, if my teenage son intentionally made the choice to sell drugs as a teenager, and pimp out his sister, or if he decided to kill one of his siblings, love for him would be the last thing on my mind.

Volf:

hardlymotivated:

You don't have to accept everything that your son wants to do, but you'd damn well better love him the same regardless of what he wants to do. Anything less would make you a pretty poor parent, along with what ReservoirAngel said.

Again, bullshit. You don't have final say about what makes a good parent. Case in point, if my teenage son intentionally made the choice to sell drugs as a teenager, and pimp out his sister, or if he decided to kill one of his siblings, love for him would be the last thing on my mind.

That's funny. I thought we were talking about young boys wanting to dress like a girl, not committing murder. Nice to see that you're willing to equate the two, though.

Naheal:

This argument has nothing to do with culture and you're avoiding the issue entirely. I know plenty of people who've begun wearing kilts because I've sported mine a time or two. And then there's the utilikilt. However, no matter how you look at it, it's a damned skirt and, in some areas, can even resemble a skirt worn by a school girl. I would like to see a good video of someone calling a man in a kilt a lady-boy.

Additionally, I have a tendency to have a bit of a thing for tomboys, so the idea of smacking around a girl because... she's acting a little manly is outright offensive. Are you arguing that a woman who still has a few body language cues that would be normally confused as masculine is confused and deserves this kind of treatment?

The argument has everything to do with culture, it was one of the main reasons I stated that I'm opposed to men wearing skirts. You can keep bringing up kilts and I'll keep letting you know that I grew up in America and I'm not ethnically Scottish. I am not in conflict for having the cultural belief that guys shouldn't wear skirts.

hardlymotivated:

Volf:

hardlymotivated:

You don't have to accept everything that your son wants to do, but you'd damn well better love him the same regardless of what he wants to do. Anything less would make you a pretty poor parent, along with what ReservoirAngel said.

Again, bullshit. You don't have final say about what makes a good parent. Case in point, if my teenage son intentionally made the choice to sell drugs as a teenager, and pimp out his sister, or if he decided to kill one of his siblings, love for him would be the last thing on my mind.

That's funny. I thought we were talking about young boys wanting to dress like a girl, not committing murder. Nice to see that you're willing to equate the two, though.

You made the claim that I should blindly accept whatever it is that my son chooses to do, so I called bullshit on that with the example being choosing to commit murder. Again, I don't have to accept whatever my son chooses to do.

NOTE:I'm not claiming cross-dressing is equivalent to murder.

Volf:
And I think that its incredibly pathetic that you think that its sad.

Right. Apparently you have no respect for my opinion, and I feel likewise about yours. It would seem.

At least I have reasons to think yours is harmful. You haven't responded by doing anything more than ridiculing my position and by making an excuse like "I support this because it's my culture".

Volf:
I want to pass on my culture, and my culture isn't Scottish, so your point is void. I'm not conflicted because I'm not Scottish.

No, you're an American, just like me. And unless you're of some unusual ethnicity that is keeping ties to their original culture rather than integrating, there's no much particular culture to America. That is, there is hardly anything unique about the culture of the United States other than pop cultural imperialism and the like. Is a backwards outlook on gender roles a part of our culture? How lovely.

American culture isn't under threat of any sort. If anything, it has helped to kill off many cultures. It is one of the most dominant and prominent cultures of the world. The argument of preserving dying languages has some merit. The mentality that only women should wear dresses does not. If there's anything particularly unique about American culture, it is that it is a colonial void of "native ties". A colonial country that has prided itself in modernism and pioneered globalist media. A culture that is changing and looking toward the future. With a country like Japan, this is a juxtaposition of what are ancient traditions and what is modern. With the United States, there is largely just the modern. The traditions are mostly borrowed, like Christianity. So if you want to embrace "American culture", embrace bold change. Culture changes, that is inevitable, and especially rapidly in a post-colonial entity like the United States, made of immigrants.

And if a tradition is not helpful to society in any way, it is worthless. And the "culture" you describe does no help that you have been able to explain.

And how ironic you speak of preserving culture like this, as a United States American, with this "motto" in your profile:

The world is my country, all mankind are my brethern and to do good is my religion.

Volf:
The argument has everything to do with culture, it was one of the main reasons I stated that I'm opposed to men wearing skirts. You can keep bringing up kilts and I'll keep letting you know that I grew up in America and I'm not ethnically Scottish. I am not in conflict for having the cultural belief that guys shouldn't wear skirts.

I'm trying to understand where you're drawing the line, here. What I'm getting thus far is that, if someone's not from Scotland or are not ethnically Scottish, you will take issue with them wearing a kilt? Or are kilts, in general, outside of the scope of this argument?

If they are, why? What separates a kilt from a similarly designed skirt?

Volf:

hardlymotivated:

Volf:
Again, bullshit. You don't have final say about what makes a good parent. Case in point, if my teenage son intentionally made the choice to sell drugs as a teenager, and pimp out his sister, or if he decided to kill one of his siblings, love for him would be the last thing on my mind.

That's funny. I thought we were talking about young boys wanting to dress like a girl, not committing murder. Nice to see that you're willing to equate the two, though.

You made the claim that I should blindly accept whatever it is that my son chooses to do, so I called bullshit on that with the example being choosing to commit murder. Again, I don't have to accept whatever my son chooses to do.

NOTE:I'm not claiming cross-dressing is equivalent to murder.

You might want to open a dictionary and look up the word "context".

This is a topic about the advocating of beating young children who want to dress or act differently from gender norms. I'd have thought it would've been obvious that my comment was with regard to young children and gender norms.

LilithSlave:

At least I have reasons to think yours is harmful.

LilithSlave:

No, you're an American, just like me. And unless you're of some unusual ethnicity, there's no much particular culture to America. That is, there is hardly anything unique about the culture of the United States other than pop cultural imperialism and the like.

My point was that I have no connection to Scotland, Scottish culture, Britain or British culture.

LilithSlave:

American culture isn't under threat of any sort. If anything, it has helped to kill off many cultures. It is one of the most dominant and prominent cultures of the world. The argument of preserving dying languages has some merit.

...ok? I don't think I ever said that American culture was under threat.

LilithSlave:

And how ironic you speak of preserving culture like this, as a United States American, with this "motto" in your profile:

The world is my country, all mankind are my brethern and to do good is my religion.

Its quite a nice quote, isn't it?

Just because I don't agree that men should wear skirts doesn't mean I would badmouth the Scottish people from wearing kilts.

Naheal:

Volf:
The argument has everything to do with culture, it was one of the main reasons I stated that I'm opposed to men wearing skirts. You can keep bringing up kilts and I'll keep letting you know that I grew up in America and I'm not ethnically Scottish. I am not in conflict for having the cultural belief that guys shouldn't wear skirts.

I'm trying to understand where you're drawing the line, here. What I'm getting thus far is that, if someone's not from Scotland or are not ethnically Scottish, you will take issue with them wearing a kilt? Or are kilts, in general, outside of the scope of this argument?

If they are, why? What separates a kilt from a similarly designed skirt?

No, I'm not everybody's parents, its not my job to dictate what they should wear. What other people do is there business. Case in point, I don't think that people should drink so much that they get used to being black out drunk, but I'm not about to go to every bar, club, pub and college party and try to tell them what to do. I would only be vocal about what my (hypothetical) kids were doing.

Volf:

Are you not much capable of responding without ridiculing the other? I would appreciate a greater degree of civility than that.

How terrible, you justify your position on gender by laughing at others who disagree. Fine then, you wish to post without respect? I would find your positions on gender laughable, if they weren't so sad and pathetic. You do an absolutely horrid and laughable job of justifying your position on gender roles.

Volf:
My point was that I have no connection to Scotland, Scottish culture, Britain or British culture.

And that is no justification for your position on gender.

LilithSlave:
snip

Yeah, when you come to the conclusion that I'm harming my son by making him wear pants, I can't help but laugh at such silly comments.

LilithSlave:
And that is no justification for your position on gender.

True, but it is justification on why what people do in Scottland has no effect on me or my beliefs.

Volf:
Yeah, when you come to the conclusion that I'm harming my son by making him wear pants, I can't help but laugh at such silly comments.

Laugh, but not capable of explaining coherently why you think something is "silly".

I don't think forcing your kid to wear any kind of clothing is the most horrible thing ever. I think it is pointlessly authoritarian, however. It won't help your child's life and they're probably going to be one heck of a rebel in their teenage years.

Part of being a good parent is not being controlling about things that won't do jack to help them.

LilithSlave:

Volf:
Yeah, when you come to the conclusion that I'm harming my son by making him wear pants, I can't help but laugh at such silly comments.

Laugh, but not capable of explaining coherently why you think something is "silly".

I don't think forcing your kid to wear any kind of clothing is the most horrible thing ever. I think it is pointlessly authoritarian, however. It won't help your child's life and they're probably going to be one heck of a rebel in their teenage years.

Part of being a good parent is not being controlling about things that won't do jack to help them.

Thanks for the tips, but you'll have to forgive me if I don't take parenting tips from some random stranger on the internet.

CaptainOctopus:

Cakes:

CaptainOctopus:
If the majority of pastors don't preach these sections who also do not fit in with todays modern society, why not change the bible the church is using? It has been done before, so why not today?

No, I really don't think it has been done before. I think you're just confused about the different translations being used, (almost?) no Christian group has "changed the bible" in that way.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZFrkjEgUDZA&t=5m40s

The rest of what became the New Testament was canonized in the 4th century in a series of committee decisions at a convention at Nicea. Four gospels were accepted and sixteen more were rejected, all by a show of hands, as if the facts of the matter could be evaluated or dismissed by popular vote.

That's wildly inaccurate. The Council of Nicea had nothing to do with Biblical canon, and I have no idea where the "sixteen gospels" thing came from.

I think this is an example of how there can always be extremes of situations.

Going against some gender roles isn't bad. But perhaps you can go a little too far in the extreme of showing just how much gender roles don't mean to you or vice versa.

Volf:

ReservoirAngel:

Volf:
Like I said, I wouldn't beat my hypothetical daughter for playing with trucks. I would however discourage(see: talk to) my hypothetical son from wearing lipstick and wearing a dress.

What if your hypothetical son was just born to be a drag queen? Who are you to deny him that, you dream-crushing monster!

I joke, of course. Mostly.

Honestly, I don't know what I would do if that was the case.

LilithSlave:

Volf:
but I'm not going to promote it.

Likewise, I'm not going to promote the existence of gender roles. Or basically, your perspective.

Also, seems awfully horrid to respond to someone with a mocking cartoon clip. And that's it.

What can I say, your intentionally promoting a son who wears a dress. I can't help but laugh.

just to let you know FDR wore a dress as a boy, in fact many boys wore dresses back in the day, it wasn't until the fifties and sixties where everything changed. heck pink used to be a manly color.

Another day, another homophobic bigot does something incredibly stupid, and either Volf or Xan talk themselves into a mess.

You're not gonna reason with Volf anymore than you could reason with the douche in the OP. He is set in his belief that gays are wrong and anything being close to that is wrong. He is entitled to his opinion, so matter how insultingly he brings it across.

OT: The pastor should have his legs broken with a pipe. Preferably by a gay bodybuilder.

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